‘I won the role when the FSB needed to cast its next victim’

Meduza interviews the Polish historian deported from Russia

On November 27, Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance reported that the Russian authorities had detained and deported Polish historian Henryk Glebocki, a scholar who’s spent many years studying Russian-Polish relations. While in Russia, Glebocki was working in archives and giving lectures. On November 24, police detained him in Moscow at the Leningradsky train station and ordered him to leave the country by midnight. He was also told that he won’t be allowed back into Russia. Police wouldn’t tell Glebocki why he was being deported, but on November 27 Russia’s Foreign Ministry revealed that his expulsion was a response to the Polish government’s decision on October 11 to deport a Russian historian (presumably referring to Dmitry Karnaukhov, a professor at Novosibirsk State Technical University whom Poland accused of working for Russian intelligence agencies). Meduza spoke to Henryk Glebocki to learn more about what happened.

How exactly were you detained?

They detained me directly at the train station, and it wasn’t FSB [Federal Security Service] agents but uniformed police officers. They said they wanted to check my documents, and then they handed me over to a few suits without any insignia. Nobody presented me with any documents, certificates, or any papers establishing the grounds for my detention. They only told me that I'd been handed over to the FSB. They showed me just one document: a decision by the FSB (not by the Foreign Ministry or the Attorney General’s Office) saying that Glebocki must be expelled.

The document was dated November 21, by the way, which was the day I arrived in St. Petersburg. For some reason unknown to me, they didn’t kick me out in Petersburg, but waited until just before midnight on Friday, when everything was closed and there was nobody — neither Polish nor Russian officials — to turn to [for help].

And while this was happening, how did the authorities treat you? Were they rude? Did they get rough?

No, no. The only thing that interested them was how to throw me out of the Russian Federation as soon as possible. I was never handcuffed, shackled, or chained, and they didn’t even interrogate me. But it was still all very unpleasant.

Did you have to spend the night in a police station or an FSB office?

No. The train [from St. Petersburg to Moscow’s Leningradsky station] arrived around 11 p.m., and the police grabbed me as I stepped off the train car. The whole thing took about 10 or 15 minutes, and then they told me that I had until midnight to leave Russia.

Were you under the impression that your detention was related to your research or lectures in St. Petersburg?

You know, when somebody’s in the hands of FSB agents, he can think anything about any scenario. I was certain that it was all some kind of misunderstanding. I thought they’d confused me with someone else. Maybe they’d check my documents, look at my things, and that would be all.

So they let you give your lecture about the NKVD’s “Polish operation” and they let you deliver your other lectures in St. Petersburg?

I didn’t know I was supposed to appeal to the FSB for permission to read a lecture. I was invited by the Polish Cultural Center, and I knew nothing about any ban on certain lectures. So I gave the same lecture I would have given in Poland, France, or any other country. I’m a free person and I try to conduct myself that way.

In the 24 years you’ve worked in Russian archives, have you ever encountered anything like this?

There have been a few situations. For example, at the border when I’m leaving [Russia] with books and piles of photocopies, customs officials sometimes suspect that I'm leaving the country with something I shouldn’t. But these were just misunderstandings, of course. I don’t remember any situations as serious as this [being deported], and I came to Russia during both Chechen wars, and after terrorist attacks when the situation in Moscow was extremely tense. But I’d never been stopped or questioned.

And you've never had any problems with access to Russian archives?

In the Russian Federation, I’ve always more or less had access to the archives, and I’ve certainly never encountered a situation where somebody from the intelligence agencies told me that I shouldn’t read something in an archive. That’s never happened to me.

Do you plan to challenge this decision, so you can return to Russia and continue to work on your books?

Gladly! And I’d be grateful if you could tell me whom to contact about this. Because I asked the FSB agents about it, but they told me that they didn’t have to give me any explanation.

Did you know about the Russian historian who worked in Poland, and that your detention might be related to what happened to him?

Before coming to Moscow, I was working in Paris, and I’d only read online that someone was expelled from Poland. But I didn’t know Mr. Karnaukhov. I’ve never met him, and I’d never even heard of his existence before all this, though they say this historian worked on Russian-Polish relations. But I don’t recall any of his work.

Do you think the Foreign Ministry’s explanation (that your detention is tied to Karnaukhov’s deportation) is believable?

It’s not a question of what’s believable, if there’s an official statement. At first, I had all kinds of guesses in my head, but now everything is clear. Apparently I won the role when the FSB needed to cast its next victim.

Interview by Konstantin Benyumov, translation by Kevin Rothrock