Guest TJ: Elena Rydkina

Sex evangelist Pure on dating apps, sex education in Russia, BDSM and relationships

On December 3, the spontaneous dating service Pure announced that it had hired 23-year-old HSE graduate, organizer of the educational project “ Sex Education ” and BDSM practitioner Elena Rydkina for the unusual position of sex evangelist. TJ talked with the girl about her new job, sex education in Russia and abroad, polyamorous relationships, as well as technological trends and dating applications.

What did you do for the last few years before you became a sex evangelist? I read that you studied at the Higher School of Economics, but I don’t know where you worked.

My work history is very diverse, but in one way or another it is connected with PR, marketing and research. I graduated from the social sciences department of the Higher School of Economics in Moscow, and while I was studying, I got involved in a bunch of different jobs, including working for some time in the socio-psychological laboratory of the university.

In general, I really wanted to engage in academic activities: when you have a research spirit, you start looking for a platform for it. But I think that this part of my life is not very interesting to people.

I'm interested in how you got to where you are now.

I was very interested in the sphere of sexuality, but there was no movement in this regard at the social science department. I know that HSE in St. Petersburg studies a lot of things like this - pornography, physicality, gender studies. It's hot in St. Petersburg, there's good social science.

Sexuality worried me from the age of 13-15. This all happened gradually. For myself, I formulate it this way: when a child has a lively head, but he does not find a certain object for research in the outside world, then if some big event happens in life, you discover an interesting world and start delving into it. In my case it was (whisper) cunnilingus from a boy.

Are you embarrassed by this or what?

There are people sitting in a cafe here, but I should feel sorry for them at least a little.

For a long time I was not interested in anything other than sexuality. At the age of 15, I read “The Ethics of ******** [dissolute behavior],” which was recommended to me by my then lover, and it was very much in my spirit. And when you live in a small town - I’m from Norilsk - this is not the best environment: a monogamous relationship, everything is standard, with a bunch of problems.

I found a suitable environment only in Moscow. As for BDSM, I first tried it when I was 18 years old. I formulated polyamory for myself and began to practice openly at the age of 21.

My professional life at that time did not intersect in any way with the sphere of sexuality, but I always secretly dreamed about it. This already took a lot of my energy and worry, but at the same time I had to earn money and build a career. At some point I realized that the humanities are not very meaningful in terms of sexuality.

Is there not much interesting going on in them? Like, is it all water?

Not water, there are many areas where these things are useful, but abstract sociology, psychology and cultural studies did not answer my specific questions. I went to the psychology department in search of something close to neurophysiology - but then it was still not obvious to me how I could get involved in the world of science. Before that, I worked only in the “industry”, business.

Were you 21 years old?

In general, I worked from the age of 17, when I arrived in Moscow, at first I worked as a courier, and my other work was low-skilled. But it is not important. There are eyes and a mouth (yes, there could be a cool joke here), you form your opinion about the world.

Much later, at the age of 21, somehow at the intersection of science and business, an interest in biotechnology arose. I began to boldly attend various accelerators and schools, including “Biotechnologies of the Future”, then at Moscow State University - “Formula Bio”. At first you feel like a moron because you have no idea what they are talking about. Each word - what is it? But when you try to figure it out, everything works out.

It so happened that at Formula Bio, the biologist boys invited me to work at a startup. Throughout the year, I did everything I could: PR, marketing, finance, wrote applications for competitions, spoke at presentations...

It seems to me that this did not help you find the answer to your “question”.

Well, yes, it was still somewhere on the periphery. But in the end, three areas of my interests were formed: sexuality, biotech and communication technologies. The second and third began to dominate my public life.

And when it comes to sexuality, I have become more open. For example, I started posting on VKontakte everything that was interesting to me, and because of this, people wrote to me in private messages, asked interesting questions, and thanked me.

A funny note: now people from the BDSM community - those who are in the know and hang out - are reacting very sharply to my sudden popularity: “How is it possible, we haven’t seen her in our community, what kind of upstart is this?”

And it’s very simple: when you are not attracted to communities on the topic of sexual interests, you prefer to hang out with people who are close to you for other reasons and experiment with them. Secondly, when you don’t have any special practices like spanking, you don’t need to come somewhere to get good training. I do a lot of DS (dominance & submission), where everything is limited only by flights of fancy, and you practice all sorts of interesting things related to “discipline” and role-playing games.

How did you end up joining Pure?

Let's go back a year. I worked in a cool psychophysiological laboratory for a little less than a year, until the fall of 2014. But in the end I got so bored that I almost started doing BDSM prostitution, because at the time it seemed to me that this was the most interesting thing I could do.

In terms of making money?

Well, it’s clear that you won’t earn much in the laboratory, but when I thought about what area I could develop in, I thought that that’s where I could do it.

Is this even legal?

For America and Europe, this is generally a normal story: people earn their education with such things. This is not something super-outstanding, especially if you create normal conditions for yourself. If you choose femdom (female dominance), then additional protection mechanisms appear.

You can tell your partner: “I don’t like you, everything will be like this,” and it turns out that you are paid money for showing your will.

Naturally, I didn’t want to put this on a systematic basis: when it goes to stream, enthusiasm and imagination are lost, the thirst for research dries up. Here Alex Zhavoronkov, a very good scientist and researcher in the field of aging, found me absolutely wonderfully. He was looking for someone in between science and PR to advance the company's goals. I liked the opportunity to travel, a big and interesting world, and I happily agreed.

Have you traveled a lot?

Every month I was either in Europe or in the USA. I was a technology evangelist: on social networks, at conferences, at parties - everywhere I trumpeted what we were doing and why, how to deal with aging.

Wouldn't it be dangerous for a scientist and startup leader in the field of aging—think medicine—to hire as an evangelist someone known for promoting certain sexual practices?

I didn’t have any fame then, I wasn’t a public person and didn’t set such a goal for myself. There were about 500 people on my VKontakte page—what publicity, what were we talking about. But I didn’t hide it, and for Alex it didn’t matter at all what was happening in my personal life.

I had an absolutely wonderful 1.5 months in the summer in San Francisco: I was sent to get acquainted with pharmaceutical technology companies.

Close enough to get to know each other?

(laughs) What dirty jokes. There was something.

Even then I was thinking about starting to hold events and trainings. In San Francisco, I was inspired by the fact that if people see problems, they look for ways to solve them, as well as the spirit of freedom, polyamory... I felt so good about something - why not try?
A physiologist I know just wrote to me; a year before, we discussed the idea of ​​such a scientific event about sex. Together with him and four other people, we gathered “Sexprosvet”: the first organizational meeting was at the end of September, then I went to Baltimore to see my man, and the organization took place online.

I thought this would be a side project.

Didn’t think that this would be interesting to anyone at all?

We even specially made the first event on November 15 free, in case people were afraid to go, or vice versa - they would come and throw stones: how is this possible, we are talking about sex here. And 350 people came, and two days before there was a terrorist attack in Paris, people on social networks were all very quiet, and we had no PR coverage.

What kind of people came to your event? How did you look for them?

I opened the list of my friends on VKontakte: so, who is adequate here and won’t spit on me because of what I send to him? And you start inviting people and asking them to invite journalists they know. People from about 20 to 40 who are interested in a variety of things, but including sex.

So what's up with Pure?

My departure from biotech developed in parallel. I realized that I was ineffective at my job and wanted to do other things. I talked to my boss: I was much more interested in working on the present rather than the future, and I didn’t want to spoil their image. The scientific community is very conservative and at least does not mix these things - biotechnology and sex. We decided that we were leaving.

When I was looking for a full-time job, I thought about journalism in the field of sexuality. I came across the magazine Sex is Pure - a digest of erotic art in English. Somehow it so happened that we began to discuss completely different possibilities with the creator of Pure Roma Sidorenko: he learned that I was openly polyamorous and a BDSM girl, and at the same time I was a technology evangelist. Well, we agreed.

I have my own big goals related to sexual communication and education of people. And here they simply give me a platform on which I can implement these ideas. Lord, this is a dream job, are you kidding me?

Pure, which in general is doing much better in America - New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles: the sex culture there is different, women feel more relaxed. Do Russian women have any problems: having sex on the first date? What a horror, how possible! Be active and take initiative in romantic or sexual relationships? Nooo!

A terribly non-trivial and interesting task. The guys have their own ideology: they want people to have more sex, of better quality, with more love.

When Pure launched, it came out with a short, clear manifesto . What do you think, what needs to be done to ensure that everything is fine with sex in Russia?

I urgently need to become a sex evangelist (laughs) . I hope you at least understand that evangelism is not about religion.

About instilling a certain way of thinking.

There is technology, and there is a cultural shell associated with sexuality - I accept it and broadcast it 24/7, and not like an ordinary PR person, during working hours. I really live in this world, I am part of the audience with whom we work. An important component is communication with people who are on the other side of the screen.

How to make sure everything goes well? I don't know. I don't know what we'll have to face. Of course, it can be scary and wild: you are going against the flow in, let’s face it, not the most tolerant time in Russia.

In Russia, sex is not often talked about at all, but perhaps if we open up this layer, we will see that everything has changed there?

This is a very good question. I am now working with large fashion publications that allow themselves to write about polyamory, LGBT and BDSM, I ask them: is the devil really as scary as he is portrayed to be? It turns out that in reality there are not so many problems as long as you don’t interfere directly with the church, with the children, and also carefully, delicately and reasonably construct your thoughts.

A curious thing with dating: apps in this case are an amazing set of tools: the same person may want to either walk for a long time and persistently arm-in-arm and talk, or have wild sex with a stranger, or some other crap. A person ceases to be one-dimensional.

But Russia is still patriarchal. It has not even yet overcome the border associated with the liberation of women: gender roles are still fixed.

This is what is called clamps.

More about canning: a man must always be responsible for everything, and a woman is always passive. Although there is a contradiction - there was a whole generation of strong women who sacrificed themselves and carried the entire family and work.

This particular situation leads to everyone being frustrated. The man does not receive any return; he does not know what the woman wants from him. A woman cannot finish with him, does not receive satisfaction and in general would rather go jerk off than interact with a man. When these things are not talked about, when they are kept silent, what does this lead to? To the point that supposedly monogamous relationships turn into an Ashley Madison story .

Yes, people cheat: everyone's needs are different, and often people go and satisfy them somewhere else. If they do this stupidly, then they bring STDs into the family - this is terrible. If you look at the statistics, some kind of ****** [horror] happens in monogamous couples: where did I get this gonorrhea, I only fuck with one partner? People don't even understand that they need to be regularly tested for these same STDs. And when they tell me: “But your application promotes promiscuity,” I answer: “Guys, aren’t you ******** [crazy]? Learn to protect yourself." Many of us don’t even know how to put on a condom properly.

Why is there such a predominance of male audiences over females in Pure?

If people learn about Pure through the website or articles, they understand that it is about spontaneous sexual experiences. But people don't have to have sex as soon as they meet. People open the app and they only have an hour to make an appointment, and then they actually decide what to do with each other.

This is only possible when both partners are ready for it.

When women are told that this is an app for sex, they are horrified: how is it possible to admit that I want sex?!

I just want sex - I don’t need this relationship, I’m tired, I’m after a divorce. I felt this very well myself, I also had to get rid of the stereotype that you can’t have sex on the first date - it interferes with your life.

Another problem arises when men begin to behave inappropriately. They are shocked that a woman came to the app for sex. They start asking a bunch of stupid questions.

Can't believe that the girl is already ready?

Yes. They start: listen, do you know what this application is for? Facepalm, by God. Or they start behaving disrespectfully: they think that if a woman came to the app for sex, she doesn’t need to say “Hello.” Or they send a photo of their penis. Although I adhere to this technique here: even before he has time to send you something, you ask him to show his penis, ask him what you want, what you can do with your hands and tongue. Normal, active things that are hard for many women to do.

In the App Store, it is forbidden to openly mention that the application is for sex, so purely theoretically, girls could come to Pure and have false expectations. If they are looking for a long, serious relationship, misunderstandings arise among all participants in the process.

What are you going to do in Pure? Attract girls?

Before me, the entire process of app marketing happened spontaneously, no money was spent on it. Journalists themselves were interested in the application because it is conditionally Russian - although in fact it is not Russian at all: the founders are from Ukraine, the office is in Lisbon, the company is registered in America.

Pure still has a long way to go. It is normal that problems and omissions arise now. Moscow was not built in a day.

How do you fit in with the concept of “my man” and the promotion of open relationships at the same time?

Yes, I have a permanent and beloved partner. But I don’t have unloved partners. When they talk about polyamory, the first important thing is that you are free. At the same time, friendship, romantic and sexual needs arise, which you fulfill with different people. It may happen that a partner appears, and you understand that you are on the same path: you have common projects and goals, you feel good in bed. You decide that you are happy with each other and you love each other.

But you don't have to satisfy every need of the person who interacts with you, and vice versa.

Especially when you can't do it.

This actually applies to any area. Why I don’t like the concept of traditional relationships imposed by books and films: there people are attached to each other and do not give freedom even in everyday activities, even to go with a friend wherever you want, or spend time with a friend. Not to mention the bed.

Especially when people are in a relationship for a long time, they have different needs and cannot satisfy them. A classic example: a woman wants freshness of feelings that her husband, with whom she has lived for many years, cannot physically give her. Or a man wants freshness, but associated with physical, rather than emotional, interaction.

Meat.

Well yes, fresh pussy. It happens that adults want to get busy with work and do their own projects - why the hell do they need this sex? A person is very flexible, he can have different cycles of needs, and polyamory gives a person the opportunity to be whoever he wants.

Your publicity goes so far as to show your candid pictures. Nothing can be deleted from the Internet. Could this backfire on you in the future?

This frankness is necessary for my purposes. It’s quite difficult to shake up the audience so that I can then work with them meaningfully in any other way. We need scandals, big topics, boobs. If I talk about sex, then there must be sex.

Does this mean we'll see a video of you soon?

I think yes.

Seriously?

Absolutely serious. There is a question here, as in the case of tattoos: how will they look in old age. The world is changing, and shaming is disappearing in the sex-positive cultures of Europe and the United States. Maybe this will appear in Russia too. Having such things doesn't become a problem: porn actresses and strippers have the opportunity to socialize, and if they don't want to do pornography anymore, then they have the opportunity to go do something else - for example, music, or even get a doctorate.

How did you react to the criticism? I saw many different opinions in the comments of colleagues on vc.ru.

In general, I feel completely normal about this. I touched a huge number of pain points, which was to be expected, and managed to anger and infuriate everyone. But you know what’s funny is that in the public space people express their frustration: “Your ***** is hairy,” “Some 23-year-old ********* thinks she’s a guru,” and so on.

But people who have known me for a long time and well, and even strangers, express positive things in personal messages and in personal communication. Some thank you, others talk about their desires and fetishes - because there is no one else to tell, others send links to interesting materials.

What do you think of “50 Shades of Grey”? It seems like this film is just about provoking a reaction and discussion, and not teaching how to do it right.

The question is that if people do not begin to delve into the topic, then they form stereotypes from a false picture. They give you one element of BDSM - there it was a “contract” - which supposedly suggests that this is what happens in the real world. But in fact, a dozen rules are violated: there is poor communication, there is no voluntariness, the very “contract” is violated even before it is signed! Plus, it’s just a bad fantasy, it’s uninteresting.

Then why is she so popular?

Because it's about taboos. Nobody talked about this. The quality requirements for what came out first are obviously too low. I think there will be a wave of things to learn more about this to prevent the negative effects. One gets the feeling that the author of the book and those who made the film either knew nothing at all about BDSM, or had very indirect knowledge - really creepy.

It seems that in the second part of “Nymphomaniac” there was a piece about how the heroine comes to a professional spanking master so that he can whip her. But it wasn't clear from the film whether any real harm was caused.

How should this actually happen?

It is important that no serious damage to health is caused. Everyone has different limits of what is acceptable, but in an ideal situation, nothing should break or fester in a person.

How do you feel about sex devices and the future of porn?

The question is too complex, let's take it in order. Devices are just a very good tool; in themselves they are not very interesting. I don’t really like using them for masturbation; I prefer to control myself. Someone will disagree, I recommend that they go to Tanya Nikonova - she has been testing sex toys for 15 years, such an old man of the scene. Manufacturers send her toys. She knows everything about sex toys.

Many will think that this is their dream job.

Why not? She is very smart, writes columns for Wonderzine, among other things, and can talk about this topic in great detail.

Toys expand the range of activities. For example, in a BDSM way, I love all sorts of anal games with men - I’m interested in opening them up in this way and giving pleasure, but in order for everything to go well, you need high-quality toys. On the other hand, toys can be symbolic: a butt plug with a tail can help capture the fantasy of a sexy bunny. Such completely innocent fetishes are all too common.

The second story is about something that can scare you. I have an anal bulb, it works on the principle of a pump, you blow air into the bulb and it swells. When, before the process, you show a young man what will happen to him, his eyes immediately widen. This is an interesting game moment.

I am for functionality, beauty and quality. It’s better to go broke and spend 3-5 thousand on each toy - except for the smallest trinkets - because everything that’s cheaper is trash.

What about the future of porn? It seems to me that thanks to 3D glasses and virtual reality helmets, the boundaries between the picture on the screen and real life are gradually blurring.

In the context of the future of sexuality, some colossal things will happen. You don’t even have to talk about porn: simulators will allow your brain to feel another partner at a distance, robots will satisfy all your needs. Moreover, body modifications will occur at the genome level - take, for example, the “ Crisper ” that everyone is talking about.

We are talking about modernizing ourselves physically: it all depends on what the sociocultural trend will be. Body positivity can take over everything, and everyone will say: why do we need to modernize anything, everything is fine with us. The opposite trend is transhumanism, total cyborgism: you have to fight nature and improve your body. It is unclear who will win in which country.

Returning to porn: it is not obvious that virtual reality can replace real communication. When does a person begin to immerse himself in the virtual world? When he is not so interested in real life.

Someone might say that we need to upload our consciousness into a computer, but the body only gets in the way: this is also a position, this is also OK.

I would work on solving the communication problem - so that people enjoy live communication. Neither in Russia nor abroad there are adequate mass alternatives to pickup schools. Why do people go to pickup school? They are frustrated, embarrassed, and cannot get to know each other. Neither schools nor universities teach communication.

And people go to pickup school for a guru who will explain what needs to be done?

They want a scheme that works. It works great with men: introverts go there - scientists, programmers - who don’t understand anything in the emotional sphere and want to structure information. Pickup school provides a set of actions that supposedly leads to results. The other side here has a functional meaning - it is an object with which you need to interact. In this case, the “prey-hunter” relationship is very convenient.

Women are taught much the same thing. You need to find the best male in the room: you evaluate his wallet, attractiveness, some other parameters - and perform a series of actions so that he transfers his resources to you. This functional attitude gives rise to a number of problems: no normal person would respond well to this.

But there are no mass schools where adequate communication is taught.

In theory, this should be embedded in the institution of family.

But it doesn't work. The entire field of the sexual sphere is smoky, we can’t talk about it. The most you get from your parents are questions: “Well, how are you hanging out with the girls?” and “Well, do you use condoms?”

Where to get information if there is no alternative? In media and cinema. The film industry is represented by porn and feature films. What are the models of romantic relationships in films? Which don't lead to anything good. As soon as people in films start dating, they immediately owe each other a lot of things, conflicts arise, and standard gender models are drawn.

Plus, in the films they are all beautiful, but in real life we ​​are not so much.

And this is also an important thing.

I think the audience may have a question about open relationships. Do they imply that anyone can become your boyfriend or partner? You seem to have published a list of people you are looking for for different forms of relationships.

Important: I am not a nymphomaniac and am not looking for sex in quantitative terms. The first stereotype that arises in the minds of men when a woman admits that she is not monogamous is that you can approach her, and you can offer something simple, who is good at what. But it turns out that when you accumulate a certain experience, you begin to need some more complex things. Just a member's suggestion may not work.

I have a set of fantasies that I want to realize. Plus people can be creative, communicate well, and I don't rule anything out. There are people with whom we communicate and we feel that something will begin, I feel sympathy, I can just have sex with them without any sophistication. It depends. There is a great element of spontaneity, but everyone must immediately keep in mind that you may be refused.

But then the man will immediately begin to become frustrated: how can this be, the girl is for an open relationship.

Well, yes, but the girl is alone, she is not enough for several hundred men, and she has her own needs. But at the same time, she can teach other women how to be open - and then women will be found.

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