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Outsuits
From Warsaw - with hope
"MZ . 256 22 - 28 April 2010
Leonid schoolboy, Jerusalem
Just from Warsaw, where the VII International Film Festival of Documents “Jewish Motives” was held in the Muranow cinema from April 20 to 25, the famous television journalist Alexander Stvikov, the author of the competition film “Oberus”, returned. This tape, awarded at the Warsaw Phoenix special prize festival, tells about the unknown page of the history of Belarus - the activities of Jewish partisan detachments during the Second World War (the MZ briefly represented the readers of this Phil ).
Sasha, why such a name is “outcasts”?
Because during the war, unexpectedly for themselves, the Jews were alone with death, meanness, injustice.
One on one? They did not live in the desert, but among people ...
Yes, among people-people. As soon as the Nazis appeared in cities and villages, the neighbors rushed to kill the Jews (as it was, for example, in the Baltic). Others watched the Jews kill, and turned away. And in order to justify themselves in front of themselves, they accused our fellow tribesmen of worshiping communism and other mortal sins. Still others calmly took the property of the Jews and instilled in their homes. There were those who did not kill, but drove the Jews into echelons and deported. And so on ... Only in Belarus, up to 800 thousand Jews died. In Poland, before the war, more than three million lived, and today about six thousand.
And the Jews who were lucky to survive, go underground or partisans, were also outcasts?
Alas, anti -Semitism met in partisan detachments: they did not want to accept Jewish refugees in them, they believed the hearing of the Germans that the ghetto refugees were the released agents. Anyone happened. But what was in Ukraine, in Poland, the Baltic countries is just a nightmare, although it is well known that, say, Jews were not loved in Poland. But the fact that in Lithuania and Belarus Jewish partisans died not only at the hands of the Germans or policemen, but also at the hands of the Polish partisans - surprised me. And these were not isolated cases.
Say a few words about those who worked on the film ...
The question, of course, is interesting. Especially for documentary projects. I answer - the author of the script, director, operator, sound operator, equipment, camera, installation, selection of music, archive and work with an archive, courier, messenger, driver, illuminator and, finally, the project sponsor - I am alone. Naturally, not from a good life,
But you probably had to solve a bunch of problems?
There were no special problems, creative. Neither in Belarus, nor in the Baltic countries, nor in Central Europe. But “household” and even then psychological - yes. When I realized that it was necessary to shoot in different countries, only a purely technical problem arose, I could no longer do only on my own. And I decided to turn to three solid Jewish offices - not even for financing, but simply for "assistance" - asked to "cover" at least a few trips to Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Poland, where the latter partisans already found.
Helped?
How! One of those I contacted me perfectly - the chairman of the board of directors of one Baltic bank and a large Jewish activist. "Where will I be in this film?" he asked. "Have you been to partisans too?" I asked. "But if I don’t have it there, then what's the point to me?" he explained logically and refused ...
The Jewish activist is good "Logic" ...
But with his refusal, I realized that just like my heroes (alive and dead), I just have to do what I was planning. Like them - to do it contrary. Contrary to the lack of money, the indifference of the "loot of the cattle", contrary to the layman, rushing between the kitchen, store and toilet. Contrary to the fact that someone will not like something. Contrary to the confusion that I saw with the audience after several views.
Let's get back to Warsaw. This festival - they say, prestigious?
Yes, this is one of the largest international festivals on Jewish topics. It is called "Jewish motives." In Warsaw, he began under the auspices of the deceased President Lech Kachinsky, who was then the mayor of the capital. My film was offered to them by an independent Belsat television channel in Belarusian, which has already shown it at home. I am in this sense is uninitiated. Belarus was alone, and, for example, only from Israel there were about twenty films ...
But then explain: you represented Belarus, but in it your film was not shown. Why?
Good question. They ask me about this constantly in Minsk and Israel, and, of course, in Warsaw. They asked with a hint - they say, there is a regime. But I honestly said that I just did not offer anyone his film. Who to offer? Boys and girls-secretaries sitting on the phone? Yes, they are one name scared! Or, as the Belarusian publicist Vitaly Taras wrote, after one hourly program on the Radio "Freedom", which gave the audio file of the film, he was met by the Belarusian poet on the street. Without a name. And he said: “Here, he heard the ending of the program about the film by Filnikov about the Belarusian Jewish partisan detachments. The good, probably, was a humorous gear ... ".
How did the Polish viewer accept your film?
There were full halls at the shows, although there were only 6 thousand Jews in Poland, but mostly the Poles walked. The jury selected for watching only more than forty films from 15 countries. There are people who are seriously interested in their history - which means that peoples, tragedies, and the culture of not only Poles, but also those who correlated or belongs to this country today.
And your "outcasts" were awarded the prize of the Warsaw festival?
Yes, a special prize - because it was the only film about Jewish heroism during the war, about the completely unknown page of resistance in Belarus and, behind the scenes, this is the first film 65 years after the war about Jewish partisan detachments. The diploma to the Warsaw Phoenix says: "For the truth about the heroism of Jewish patriots in the struggle against the Nazi invaders." They are silent everywhere. After viewing at the discussion, one woman (from Sweden) thanked, and then burst into tears - they say, it is necessary because they don’t talk about it. “My father fought with the Nazis,” she said. “I want to show this film to my children and my circle of friends in Stockholm.”
What did this film festival give you?
Once again I realized that there are people for whom this topic and this film are very important. I wanted to talk popularly about Belarus, that the Jews were also guerried there - along with everyone - against the Nazi. But against this film there was a certain conspiracy of silence when I did it, and only "simple" people helped. And now - the same silence - even in the same Belarus, although, it would seem, rejoice that they will learn about the republic and its people and look abroad. And even receive prizes. But the whole “trouble” is that both the film and this prize are not official and not under the patronage of the rich or powerful of this world. But I saw and once again became convinced that there are a lot of people who need it and they want to know about the war, and about themselves, and about the heroism of their relatives and friends. For me, of course, this was a surprise.
What next? New project?
Now I would make this film a little different, and most importantly - much more accurate. But I will definitely continue this topic, it is not only important, but also close to me personally. By the way, today I already received an official invitation to another film festival with the same film, in the fall. And I'm already in another project ...
More than earlier interviews can be read here:
http://www.pravda4u.info/
Jewish partisan detachments
Wednesday, October 26, 2011 21:03 + to the quote
Alexander Stvikov made a sensational film on the "Jewish theme"
Famous journalist Alexander Stonikov made a documentary about the Second World War. The tape has not yet reached wide rental, but has already made a lot of noise and promises to be scandalous. The author turned to a topic that has never sounded. About the Jewish partisan movement in Europe; about how it originated and how it survived; As not only the Nazis, but also the locals dealt with the Jews.
Eyewitnesses are told about the events of those days, whom Stepnikov found in Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, Slovenia ...
- Sasha, how did the idea of the film arise?
- It happened quite simply, like everything in this life. I began to prepare a completely different project, and also interesting for me, and unusual and even commercially attractive. But suddenly he went on the topic of the partisan movement during the war. Everything turned out to be far from as clear as we were told in Soviet times. On the other hand, anti -fascists, patriots began to paint one -sided now. Freedom of speech where they are not ready for her, this is the freedom of stupidity and superficiality ...
I had heard about Jewish partisan detachments before. And suddenly this topic surfaced. It turned out that she was completely not studied, moreover, she was always silent. Even in the West, in more than half a century about Jewish partisans, no one removed anything. And very little has been written. All just universal crying about the Holocaust! In the communist countries, the topic did not sound. Moreover, it turned out that the Jewish establishment for some reason “prefers” to talk only about the victims and only casually about heroism and struggle. I had a question: "Why?"
Over time, these "why" became more and more, and I started working. First only in Belarus. I searched for answers to questions: how did Jewish partisan detachments appear, how they survived in the Holocaust, why was the vast majority in Belarus, in which they were created, what difficulties were faced with?
But then I realized that the Jewish partisans here are part of the overall resistance, the Jewish resistance of the whole of Europe. And the topic of not even the Holocaust surfaced, without which it is impossible to talk about Jewish resistance, but collaborators. So it went, went ...
- Therefore, the film is called "outcasts"?
- The name came already in the course of work on the materials. I suddenly saw - on the basis of what I heard and collected - a completely different approach to this topic.
During the war, the Jews actually unexpectedly turned out to be alone - one on one with death and injustice.
The war and the Nazis came. And some neighbors began to kill the Jews, as in the Baltic. Others looked and turned away. And in order to justify themselves in front of themselves, they accused the Jews of communism and of all mortal sins. The third - calmly took their property and instilled in their houses. The fourth - they themselves did not kill, but gathered Jews in echelons and deported. Or they acted as the Bulgarians who, fifty thousand people, did not give their Jews - to Hitler, but, being his ally, occupied Macedonia and Northern Greece and all the Jews there "presented" to the Germans. And so on...
As a result, millions of people seemed to be not on this earth. Only 800 thousand Jews died in Belarus. In Poland, before the war, more than three million lived. And today - about six thousand.
Those Jews who were lucky to survive, who was underground or went to the partisans, also often turned out to be alone there. And in the partisans there was anti -Semitism, and did not want to accept Jewish refugees, and believed the rumors of the Germans that the refugees from the ghetto were the emitted agents. Anyone happened. But what was in Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic countries is just a nightmare. For example, I had previously met information about the fact that, say, Jews were not loved in Poland. This is not news. But the fact that in Lithuania and Belarus Jewish partisans died not only at the hands of the Germans or policemen, but also at the hands of the Polish partisans - surprised me. And these were not isolated cases. Otherwise, I would not peck at such facts ...
Or, for example, I first learned that from all Eastern European countries, only in Belarus, the Germans could not raise the local population to Jewish pogroms and therefore began to destroy themselves. With the help of punishers brought here from neighboring countries. For example, I did not know that when German Jews were taken to Minsk (and to Riga), they had their own ghetto in the ghetto, their own passing, rations, their own police. Although they destroyed everyone the same. That is, the Holocaust, which is usually laid only on the Germans, is the “merit” of not individual geeks, but, in essence, the same collective wine (with the exception of Belarus). Therefore, they try not to talk about this, so anti -Semitism is alive and smoldering. Until your new hour.
“But why are Jews themselves silent for so many years?”
- Those who were killed by thousands during the war were also thought (and this is stated in the film) that there can be no such “”. It turned out that everything could be.
All the blame for the Genocide was dumped on the Germans ... But look: even in the Western civilized countries, when the Jews were taken away "to relocation", to the destruction camps, the vast majority of their neighbors sighed calmly. Property and houses remained. There is where to live and sleep! And you can hang your sign over a bench or workshop.
Jews even in partisans were often outcasts, and only the communist underground received them. Even if not without problems, but still the Soviet partisans accepted them. Who will like it in the West?
Today, a competent man has Nazi propaganda, written off from the Russian Black Hundreds, causes almost laughter. In the film, the young Nazi says that Bolshevism is international life. And he doesn’t think so alone! And when the strong came, when it seemed that they won that these were the new masters of the new Europe, many also began to count the same way. And destroy, hap, pretend that nothing is happening. I left this guy in the film only because he today says aloud what is not so rarely thinking or speak at home ...
In general, I just fell in love with those with whom I worked. For their openness. For their courage. For their will to life. It was a great thing for me to get acquainted with these people and honest historians. I know that I can’t change anything. So what? This is not an argument to be silent and watch how the old infection crawls again under various other sauces.
- What difficulties had to deal with in the process of work? Are there any obstacles?
- There were no obstacles anywhere. Neither in Belarus, nor in the Baltic countries, nor in Central Europe. A purely technical problem arose when I realized that I had to shoot in different countries: I could no longer do only on my own. Hotels, gasoline, current travel expenses. It began to crush. TV shooting is primarily money and costs. And considerable. Then I neatly turned to three solid Jewish offices. For example, in a non -poor Euro -Asian Jewish Congress or, succumbing to the advice of friends, - to the co -owner of a large Latvian "Pariox Bank". Not even for financing, so as not to strain, but for “assistance” - asked to “cover” at least a few trips to Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Poland ... to the same Slovakia where I found the last still living commander of the Jewish partisan detachment.
Just the project pulled more from my pocket than I expected. And I did not have time to "plow" on the fees to invest them in it. The third “correspondent” on this occasion was perfectly answered - the chairman of the board of directors of one Baltic bank and also a large Jewish activist.
- Where will I be in this film? he asked.
- Have you been to partisans too? I asked.
“But if I don’t have it, what's the point to me?” he explained logically and refused ...
And then it became easier for me. I realized that just like my heroes (alive and dead), I just had to do what I planned. Like them - contrary to. Contrary to the money, the indifference of the "loot of the cattle", the layman rushing between the kitchen, the store and the toilet. Contrary to the fact that someone will not like something. Contrary to the confusion that I saw with the audience after several views.
- What episode, in your opinion, became the brightest in the film?
- There are many such episodes. I just fell in love with the partisan Fanya Brandovskaya from Lithuania. She was recently pulled into the Lithuanian prosecutor's office, because her detachment defeated her self -defense in the village of Konyukai (Konyukhi). This self -defense was armed by the Germans against the partisans. During the battle, civilians died there. This, speaking in today's language, is the family of policemen. So, it was impossible to touch them. It was necessary, like the Germans, to arrange a selection. The partisan genocide turned out.
I was very cut, as an elderly smart man who survived in the Riga ghetto said sincerely that he could not forgive himself all his life, that he had not gone with his mother to be shot. In Riga in the ghetto, they first shot all women, old people and children, men left to work.
For some reason, people were sincere in front of the camera ... Some of the interviewed remembered that among the paratroopers - the partisans sent by their Moscow, - Sibiryakov noted. Very bright, original Russian people were completely deprived of even a hint of anti -Semitism. Or a purebred Jewish reconnaissance in the German Wehrmacht, when he said that he was close to suicide, because it seemed to him that he was doing little for his homeland. Or the commander of the Slovak Jewish detachment at almost three hundred people talked about the Slovak uprising, how it was, how they were friends, how was there a company from the orthodox Jews ....
- Sasha, where will this film show? Will the Belarusian viewer be able to see it? Did you offer him, for example, by Belarusian television?
-Russian-speaking TV today, in my opinion, as in previous times, lives political and historical myths and fed these myths to the viewer. A lot of distortion or fraud for a particular concept. And the fact that these concepts and representations are not united, as before, does not help, but only creates a mishmash in the head of an unprepared person. The facts and facts snatched or selected seem to say something, and everything seems to be solid, but still about myths. I did not make this film on order. I talked about what I found out. And since there were many little-known facts, I did not string them on some kind of concept of "for" or "against". Просто попытался понять через Холокост, коллаборационизм и партизан, - что тогда происходило и с евреями, и с их соседями.
В фильме есть то, что не понравится кому-то в странах Балтии, в Польше, в Украине. Многое - о чем не принято говорить. Я сознательно не стал нагнетать скандальность каких-то фактов или моментов. Что-то пришлось разжевать, потому что на Западе на самом деле не так много знают о той войне. And this is not surprising. People have a short memory. Иначе бы веками не повторялось одно и то же. В Израиле очень мало или почти не знают даже о самом факте существования еврейских партизан.
Я сделал этот фильм, как увидел. Сделал так, как хотел показать своим детям. Сделал - как подарок тем замечательным людям, с которыми встретился, пока над ним работал. Я ничего никому не доказываю этим фильмом, кроме себя самого. Есть древняя еврейская истина: "Если не ты за себя, то кто же? Но если ты только для себя, то зачем ты?" Значит, мне это было нужно. Разве может быть более серьезный стимул, чтобы жить и уважать себя?