Migration problems in Europe

The program is conducted by Giovanni Benxi. He talks with Radio Liberty correspondents in Paris and Bonn Semen Mirsky and Evgeny Bovkun, as well as with Svetlana Gannushkina, a member of the Russian government commission on migration.

Giovanni Bensi:

Our attention today will focus on a small European country - Belgium. In this country, as in all Western European states, a large mass of immigrants live, primarily from Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe. According to the Brussels government of such foreigners, about 60 thousand people, of which about 20 thousand live in Belgium illegally, without documents that would give them a residence permit, the right to an apartment, medical and social security. But if this is a pan -European, or at least a general European problem, then why do we take Belgium under a magnifying glass? Because the other day the government of this country decided to legalize the situation of the so-called "Sans Papiers"- foreigners living here without documents. Now, until January 28, these people may apply for all the necessary papers, which will finally give them the right to live in Belgium legally. It would seem that in this decision there is nothing out of the ordinary. So why then European attention focused on Belgium? The answer is simple - because the Brussels government decided for three weeks to introduce passport control on the borders again, thus temporarily suspending the action of the Schengen agreement introduced in 1995. Recall, according to the Schengen agreement, named after the Luxembourg city in which it was signed in 1995, 10 out of 15 EU countries canceled passport control on the intra-European border. The decision of Belgium again, at least temporarily restore the passport regime -the first significant retreat of one European country from the terms of the agreement, although the European Commission, that is, the EU government, admitted that Brussels' decision is not a violation of obligations taken by Belgium by agreement. Belgium decided on the specified step due to fears that international organized crime can take advantage of the open boundaries in order to illegally deliver thousands of or tens of thousands of immigrants to the country who will try to achieve legalization based on the Decree published by the Government. Belgium is ready to legalize the situation of unregistered foreigners already in the country, but does not want a new wave of "illegal" to surrender under the noise. The restoration of passport control, and in an enhanced form, caused indescribable chaos near the borders of Belgium with France, Germany and the Netherlands - neighboring Luxembourg also temporarily introduced the passport regime. Huge lines of cars and trucks were formed. On the French side, the situation is additionally complicated by the strike of truck drivers who blocked the roads. The decision of the Brussels government has focused on universal attention on the problem of pan -European significance - the problem of immigration from developing countries, from Eastern Europe or from regions of military operations. The fact is that international gangs associated with different mafia - from Sicilian and Balkan to Russian, take a lot of money from those who want to emigrate to Europe and take hundreds of thousands of refugees to our continent, and then abandon them to their fate. Germany, France and Great Britain are the favorite goals of these immigrants. There is, for example, a constant stream of refugees from Kosovo, Bosnia and generally from the Balkans, who with a great risk to life leave their countries on old and often unsuitable ships and arrive almost always in a terrible hygienic state to the shores of South Italy. Many, more or less legally, remain in this country, others with more or less adventures continue with the hope of their best way to other countries. Western Europe is afraid of the waves of immigrants because they create a lot of problems. Among them are few qualified workers who can honestly earn a living, pushed by need, many of the emigrants begin to lead a criminal lifestyle. Young women often fall under the influence of pioneers - their compatriots or local ones, and are forced to prostitution in humiliating, inhuman conditions. But, at the same time, Europe needs immigration, the birth rate in Europe is falling - recently Eurostat - the main statistical management under the European Commission, noted that the birth rate in Europe reached the lowest point from the end of the Second World War. In some countries, such as Germany, Italy and Sweden, the birth rate is lower than the zero limit - instead of population growth, its reduction is observed. In 1999, more than 700 thousand immigrants arrived in the EU. According to the UN report, until 2025, the EU countries need 59 million immigrants in order to maintain a demographic balance and high living standards. The theme of our today is the problem of migration in Europe. Our correspondents in Paris and Bonn Semen Mirsky and Evgeny Bovkun, as well as Svetlana Gannushkin, a member of the Russian government commission on migration, participate in it. She is also the head of the commission of assistance to refugees and immigrants and a member of the Human Rights Center "Memorial" in Moscow. So, my first question to Semyon Mirsky: what is the reaction in France to the decision of the Belgian government to temporarily restore passport control at the borders?

Semyon Mirsky:

The reaction in France is what we should have expected, there is no, say, a scream of indignation associated with the fact that Belgium, and after it, Luxembourg, as if temporarily canceled the action of the Schengen agreements, especially since in the text of the agreement signed in 1995, which you talked about, such an opportunity has been agreed, that is, what made the Belgian government completely legally. This is not a violation of the law, a violation of the Schengen agreement itself. Of course, in France, all kinds of leagues and organizations in the struggle against racism reminded of their existence. Of course, they would prefer that this measure would not be, and that Belgium, as well as other EU countries, accepts on their territory all those who cannot live in their homeland for political, ethnic, religious and other reasons, because there are unworthy conditions of life or are associated with risk to health and life itself. Such, in a nutshell, reaction in France. Moreover, from government sources in France, the measure of Brussels is met with understanding. Why? It is possible that France, which is one of the transshipment points, as well as the desired goal for immigrants from five continents of the planet, where life is hard, and in many places it becomes harder every day, will also resort to a similar extent, but here I, for example, read such an idea in the Figaro newspaper that it was not by chance that the first country decided on such an inaccurate step was Belgium - one of the most of the most of the most of small EU countries. If the experiment, which puts Belgium on live material, was crowned with success, it is possible that France, and after it, Germany, Italy and other countries would have gone the same way. So in what the Belgian government holds these days, you can see, as it were, a general rehearsal of similar subsequent steps, which may be taken in other EU countries.

Giovanni Bensi:

Evgeny Bovkun, in Germany there were very liberal rules regarding the provision of asylum to foreigners. These rules were tightened, up to a change in the constitution, in order to fight illegal immigration. Can you tell you about this?

Evgeny Bovkun:

Yes, indeed, Germany tightened the rules for taking foreigners, first of all, refugees, because it cannot cope with the huge stream that flows here, in Germany, literally from all sides - from Albania, Yugoslavia, the Balkan Peninsula as a whole, and from the former republics of the USSR, as well as from Turkey, Algeria - well, just from all sides. These tightening measures did not immediately appear, Germany gradually carried out a program for resolving the issue of the stay of foreigners and the status for them. In this regard, the Law on Dual Citizenship was adopted, although, first of all, it touched on those who live here for a long time and on a legal basis, basically we are talking about the Turks, in addition, the Germans reduced the deadline for consideration of applications for admission to Germany, petitions for the provision of refugee status, which submit immigrants and refugees to the minimum term, deciding that in their interests to process these as soon as possible to process these statements. In Germany, all foreigners use different status, it varies depending on how immigrants have come here. They can be recognized as political refugees, and they are given a limited right to stay, sometimes without the right to work, and sometimes they can work. Partially, these foreigners are placed on a rather strict mode of stay. If we are talking about refugees from the regions of natural disasters or wars, then a special attitude towards them, but even in these cases, the Germans try to send these refugees after some time. For example, last year the first Albanians were sent back, which were adopted after the war in Kosovo began.

Giovanni Bensi:

And now in line Svetlana Gannushkina in Moscow. Svetlana Alekseevna, in Russia there are now many refugees and immigrants. People run away from the war in Chechnya and from difficult conditions in the former republics of the USSR, but Russia also serves a "transit" country for people from Southeast Asia, legally or illegally rushing in the EU. How can one characterize the situation of these groups of refugees and immigrants in Russia today?

Svetlana Gannushkina:

If we talk about refugees from our former republics, from the countries that were part of the USSR, then partially they receive state support. But our authorities call different figures of their quantity, depending on what it wants to reflect the aspects of our life, the figure from 3 to 10 million people who have arrived in Russia is called the figure. The status of them has about a million. Now there is a tendency to give refugee status as few people from the CIS countries as possible. You can simply compare the figures - in 1997 there were 5 thousand people from the CIS countries who received this status, in 1998 - 450 people, and in 1999, except for the last month - December, only 84 people. That is, in fact, no one, no one now receives refugee status. Only those who accepted the citizenship of the Russian Federation receive support, and not all. As for people who would like to move to other countries, of course, there are very large difficulties for them, they don’t have any help, their position still runs the presence of a residence permit in Russia, as a result, they can receive any state aid - no children's aids, nor pensions, in fact, at the same time, Russia limits their departure from its territory. We, still, when a person wants to leave the country, there are still difficulties - they can be detained on the border. It was so even for those who officially came to us from the republics of Central Asia by invitation, without having it in their hands, but actually rode at the UN invitation to the conference. These people had to linger, since they had no visas, although on the other hand a visa was waiting for them on the border, in Geneva. Therefore, in Russia there are a lot of people who are without state assistance and are not able to leave the country.

Giovanni Bensi:

Again, the question in Paris, Semen Mirsky - French newspapers vastly commented on the UN report on the negative growth of the population in the EU countries. Can you state the essence of this document and the disputes accompanying it in more detail?

Semyon Mirsky:

You have already called the main provisions of the document. In three countries - Germany, Italy and Sweden, the number of deaths in absolute numbers today exceeds the number of births - in Germany - by 0.9 percent, in Italy - by 0.8, and in Sweden - by 0.7. That is, if you say this, somewhat dramatic, the Germans die out. And in the newspaper "Figaro" for January 10, this is the day of publication of the report, I read: "In order to maintain a demographic balance at the proper level, Germany would have to accept 14 million immigrants on its territory until 2025," - we recall that the United States has adopted one million immigrants each year, and they live with an unexplored The growth of labor productivity and practically without unemployment, but Germany and wider - Europe, this is not the United States, which since its foundation have been the "country of immigrants" - a country for immigrants. In Europe, the economic feasibility of such a step, that is, the dramatic expansion of the immigration stream is pushed into other problems - the problems of xenophobia, that is, hatred of strangers, shock of culture, rejection, and so on.

Giovanni Bensi:

Semyon Mirsky, you mentioned xenophobia. But I want to turn to Evgeny Bovkun here - we often read in newspapers about xenophobia in Germany. How serious are these moods, and what are they expressed?

Evgeny Bovkun:

Xenophobia manifests itself in Germany, perhaps, mainly at the domestic level, because politicians and the public do not protest so loudly against the introduction of a dual citizenship law, which, as it were, gives additional rights to foreigners living here for a long time, but with regard to ordinary, ordinary citizens, the surveys conducted last year showed that most Germans protest against the introduction of double citizenship. Most Germans believe that there is no need to give out double passports to children who are born in Germany among foreigners - it is assumed that then they will be replaced by one of the national passports upon reaching adulthood. The reasons here are completely different - first of all, people say that "foreigners take our jobs, foreigners cannot participate in the elections, but they influence murderers, intervene in political life, create purely domestic inconvenience, for example, they receive apartments, claim them, while housing is not enough." When last year Christian democrats, preparing for the elections, collected signatures against dual citizenship, it suddenly became clear to many that many Germans immediately began to subscribe to these petitions, protesting against the introduction of a dual citizenship law, and nevertheless, it was adopted.

Giovanni Bensi:

I again turn to Svetlana Gannushkina - you deal with the problem of refugees and immigrants in the plane of human rights activity. Can you briefly talk about your experience, about difficulties and successes in your work?

Svetlana Gannushkina:

Yes, we are really engaged in human rights activities, and now we are faced with colossal resistance from our authorities and, first of all, this applies to our internal migrants, to their colossal stream. These are residents of Chechnya who run away from hostilities and are deprived of the most elementary ways of existence, because they are proven, in particular, in Moscow, they are not registered, they are killed in Chechnya, they are killed, in Ingushetia no conditions are created for them, then they find themselves in other subjects of the Federation, and they are not accepted there. In addition, now the Ministry of Internal Affairs refuses them to issue foreign and even internal passports. We are trying to counteract this, we turn to the prosecutor’s office and the Ministry of Justice. I must say that they support us, but at the same time, these existing rules are not canceled, we are now faced with such a phenomenon as failure to fulfill court decisions and the lack of reactions to prosecutorial supervision measures and the recommendations of the Ministry of Justice. This new situation shows that in our country, issues again begin to be resolved by strong -willed way.