Technogenic war

The program is conducted by Tengiz Gudava. He talks with a refugee from Chechnya, a scientist and politician Baudin Kadiev.

Tengiz Gudava:

I have repeatedly said that the drama of Chechen independence resembles the revolutionary events of Russia in the early twentieth century. If we recognize this analogy, then Baudin Kadiev should be considered an old specialist adopted by the revolutionary power.

Having a medical and legal education, Dr. Kadiev worked as a forensic expert in the healthcare system before in May 1994 he was introduced into the Academy of Sciences of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, where he took the post of deputy president of the Academy of Sciences. During the presidential election campaign, he led Aslan Maskhadov’s team, and after the election of Maskhadov, the president became his assistant in foreign economic and foreign policy relations. Then Baudin Kadiev worked as an assistant to the Prime Minister on the same issues and was a plenipotentiary representative of Chechnya in the southern republics of Russia.

Now Mr. Kadiev is a refugee in the Czech Republic. We are talking in the Prague Studio of Radio Liberty.

Mr. Kadiev, you were in the Chechen political establishment, as I understand it. How do you evaluate these people, people from the political elite of Chechnya, in particular, President Maskhadov and others?

Baudin Kadiev:

In my opinion, a titanic work was carried out to resolve the relations of Chechnya and Russia, the result of which was the signing of the world agreement on May 12, 1997, which stated that all controversial issues with Russia will be resolved on the basis of international law without the use of force and even a threat to its application. I believe that these people, they did everything possible and impossible to get away from future strife. But what happened happened. Human qualities - like all people, all of them, of course, are different, but to reproach leading leaders - I mean directly the president, vice president and people who were directly in politics, in dishonesty or some other negative moments, for example, I can not.

Tengiz Gudava:

Tell me, to what extent did they control the situation in the republic - the main accusation of the rulers of Chechnya of that time that they did not control the situation?

Baudin Kadiev:

Yes, there was crime, and there was high crime. I believe that this is a natural consequence of the post -war period - take the history of other countries that have left the war - crime, rampant banditry, and so on increases. But the opinion that the leaders of Chechnya did not control the situation is very stretched and, I believe that it is unfair. The situation was controlled, but in my opinion, there was a very big job to drive a wedge between the leaders of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, and something, or even much, we can count, because we received the consequences that we now have. And to create a global impression that the leaders of the republic did not control the situation is not true. The proof of this is that such a massive resistance of the rebels and the ongoing war, which went into the partisan phase - if this were, not so, it would be, as it was stated, by two regiments in two hours.

Tengiz Gudava:

The idea of the Chechen full -fledged state independence that you served. Do you think this is utopia or something real?

Baudin Kadiev:

Based on international law, each nation has the right to self -determination. Let's recall the words of Yeltsin, who said "take yourself as many powers as you can put them into life." In this regard, the Chechen people and leaders probably turned out to be a little naive people. They literally understood what the president and government of Russia told them. There was an attempt to realize this in practice. Moreover, the history of the relationship between Chechnya with Russia has a long ago.

This is a 400 -year confrontation between the Chechen people and Russia, or, more precisely, the aggression of Russia in Chechnya, which in every century lasted dozens of punitive expeditions. I believe that it was not utopia. It was quite real and was supposed to happen. However, the Russian state considers the right to be strong as its right and this is the only law that is currently operating in Russia.

Tengiz Gudava:

You did not get into the ranks of resistance and became a refugee. In front of me is your petition to the migration service of the Republic of Ingushetia on recognizing you for a forced migrant. What caused this statement, they did not want to recognize you with a refugee?

Baudin Kadiev:

After the start of the Second Russian-Chechen war, when the massive bombing of the city of Grozny began, the inhabitants had to leave him, and they left him along the only corridor towards Ingushetia. My situation was generally difficult, due to the fact that I was related to the government. It was necessary to somehow rehabilitate, somehow show that I am legally on the territory of Ingushetia, otherwise I was threatened with immediate arrest with all the ensuing consequences.

I think. That this did not happen, simply because not everyone has time to do at once, because at that time, apparently, the heads of Russia had the head of Russia more about the general picture, and now we see examples that not only the main leaders, but officials of a very low rank are arrested. Here, they passed on the radio that two little -known assistants from Udugov were arrested ... A very serious politician, chairman of the parliament, Ruslan Alikhadzhiev, was arrested, but they are already beginning to arrest people with a smaller rank, very far -fetched facts. They are contained precisely in Chernokozovo, which has today terrifying characteristics of the camp.

Tengiz Gudava:

Mr. Kadiev, the response of the Migration Service of the Republic of Ingushetia - this is from the collection of bureaucratic masterpieces. Let me, I'll just give this answer:

Federal Migration Service of Russia.
Migration Service of the Republic of Ingushetia.
Kadiev Baudin Bertovich, Art. Troitskaya, st. Shrosseyaya, 11.

For your application dated 02/14/2000, we report:

1. According to clause 1 of Art. 1 and clause 3 of Article 2 of the Law of the Russian Federation "On Forced Migrants" forced immigrants, a person who has left a permanent place of residence due to emergency situations of a technogenic nature cannot be recognized, that is, we can only talk about the persecution of a particular person or members of his family, on the basis of racial or nationality, religion, language and so on, as well as one of the above -mentioned The law of signs occurs a massive violation of public order.

2. This law does not say about hostilities, and these actions in the meaning of the law relate to the actions of a technogenic nature.

We assure you that when introducing changes and additions to the Law on Forced Migrants Governing the events taking place in the Chechen Republic today, the Migration Service of the Republic of Ingushetia will take measures to fulfill all the requirements of the law.

I.O. Head of MS RIM.Z. Gireyev
Span. Tsichoev M.M.

So, the war is this action of a technogenic nature, and not a war as such. The second "Perl" is no less interesting: it turns out that the Russian law on refugees does not provide for the existence of refugees from the war in the nature of the war. Mr. Kadiev, judging by the fact that you are here, your Ingush epic ended not with the most brilliant result, and you decided to contact the Czech Republic. That is, you decided to get acquainted with the Czech bureaucracy?

Baudin Kadiev:

With your permission, I would a little focused on this answer. I believe that he is a mockery of common sense. A strange picture turns out: we know that according to official figures, more than 50 thousand civilians have already been destroyed, and if, according to the results of the first and second war, almost 180 thousand people. So, the murder, but I do not qualify it in another way, 180 thousand people, where my mother and close relatives died, the Russian side believes that this was not a threat to my life. The destroyed economy of the whole republic and in general the entire republic was destroyed, only single houses remained intact - the Russian side believes that there was no mass violation of public order. In general, I consider myself a good expert on the Russian language. But this term "technogenic character" is not clear to me at all.

Tengiz Gudava:

Me too...

Baudin Kadiev:

What does a technogenic nature mean? What is the difference what it came from. The refugee leaves bombs, the refugee leaves the threat to life, from massive violations of public order - all this is evident. They came up with such a word "technogenic character." The war is not linked at all in any matters, and therefore not a refugee. It is not difficult to guess why such answers are going - recognizing me for a forced immigrant under the legislation of Russia, they take on certain duties at least on paper. In order not to create these responsibilities, they give answers that are not amenable to the mind.

Tengiz Gudava:

Before me is an even more amazing document. This document was provided to us:

The Ministry of the Interior of the Russian Federation.

Order

September 17, 1999 Moscow No. 54 1

On measures to eliminate the conditions for the possibility of conducting terrorist acts in the territory of the Russian Federation.

In connection with the counter -terrorism operation in Dagestan and repeated threats from the Chechen armed gangs, explosions of residential buildings in the city of Buinaksk and Moscow. There is reason to assume the threat of explosions in other large cities of Russia.

I order

1. To create strict living conditions and activities of persons of Chechen nationality in the Russian Federation.

1.1. Limit, and if possible prohibit the registration of Chechens in Moscow and other cities of Russia.

1.2. Conduct regular inspections at the places of residence of people of Chechen nationality.

1.3. Take special control of registration of firms and enterprises with the participation of persons of Chechen nationality and other people from Chechnya.

1.4. Conduct an audit of firms with the participation of the persons of the Chechen
nationality and other immigrants from Chechnya, with
simultaneously blocking their accounts in
Avoiding the possibility of financing
Chechen gangs.

1.5. Limit the exit of the Chechen nationality from places of permanent residence.

1.6. Limit the issuance of visas and passports to persons of Chechen nationality.

1.7. To detain and deliver Chechens to the local police department until they are completely clarified by their personality and kind of occupation.

Minister of the Interior
Police Colonel General V.B. Rushailo

How would you comment on this document?

Baudin Kadiev:

I would begin with the fact that this order was released on September 17, 1999, when the Second Russian-Chechen war, in fact, had not yet begun-there were events in Dagestan, but there were already explosions in Buinaksk and Moscow. I believe that this document is one of the forms of preparation for the commissioning of troops into Chechnya and the unleashing of new bloody events in Chechnya, for us this is not a sensation, because all this is implemented in practice in the most severe framework. Your humble servant also went through the delay procedure and spent several days in the receiver-distributor, however, in Ukraine. But those, apparently, were also guided by this document. Police officials directly told me that there is an unspoken agreement between Russia and Ukraine that people of Chechen nationality must be detained and checked - they have the right to keep up to 30 days.

Nothing more than a violation of all the conceivable and unthinkable rights of man and the whole people - this is what this document is. And I believe that this is an ethnic war, it is in terms of persecution of persons on a national basis. And perhaps such documents, only a lazy person does not have in his hands, because they walk around Moscow by all forms, they will not have time to dry ink, as the document gets to the Chechens.

Tengiz Gudava:

But here on the document the vulture "for" internal use ", but how did he get to you?

Baudin Kadiev:

Only a lazy Chechen does not have such documents, and if you are interested in other persons, they will have many more.

Tengiz Gudava:

And the reliability of this document?

Baudin Kadiev:

I was not in the office of the Minister of Internal Affairs and did not take this copy from the office, but pay attention to the form of the document and what is happening today throughout the Russian Federation. This one to one indicates that what is happening in life is on paper.

Tengiz Gudava:

Mr. Kadiev, according to this document of Chechens, must first be “not allowed”, and secondly, crushed. That is, this is not even ethnic cleaning in which the population is squeezed out ...

Baudin Kadiev:

This is genocide ...

Tengiz Gudava:

This, let's say, not squeezing, but more to crush ... What do you think will become with those who remain in Chechnya? What will happen in Chechnya - your forecast?

Baudin Kadiev:

In general, to predict is a very ungrateful and complex matter, but I believe that the humiliation of the Chechens is still ahead and I think that this process, the formation, let’s say, will go for decades. Well, today - I have a number of documents that prove that there is a purposeful policy of destroying the Chechen people. In one of my speeches in the presence of the president of the Czech Republic, I brought a Russian proverb: "The forest is chopped, chips fly." So, I believe that chips are 180 thousand already killed Chechens, and the forest is the Chechen ethnic group, which is either killed in place or those who are lucky are scattered around the world. There is a policy aimed at ensuring that this nation as an integral nation with its identity and culture no longer rises.