Programs - Round Table

Lev Roitman:

In Russia, the level of registered unemployment is below 3%, in Moscow - less than one. For comparison: in America - four with small, in Germany - 11%. But the modest Russian 3% are two million people, fates, the most difficult thing for people for 40. Is it normal? The opinion of the Muscovite, Marina Katys spoke with him on the eve of the program:

"As a rule, the restrictions imposed on free vacancies are the age of 35 years, in particular, I have a friend who did not find work. The fact is that with the data that he provided in all kinds of firms, he seemed to claim to be some kind of large leadership position. A person under 50 years, and he wanted to just do some kind of business and cook lunch. Probably not only those people who want To get a job, but those people who offer work, because, I believe that age has nothing to do with it, and, probably, a person under 50 years can occupy any posts in any company and it is not necessary to be young for this. ”

The opinion of the Muscovite. About unemployment in Russia - does statistics know everything? The participants in the conversation gathered in our Moscow edition, I will present them, these are our guests: Tatyana Karakozova - Deputy General Director of the Russian personnel personnel and Evgeny Gontmamer - head of the Department of Social Development of the Government of the Russian Federation, our Moscow correspondent Marina Katys.

Tatyana Georgievna Karakozova, with the first question to you, the opinion of the Muscovite from the mini -request conducted by Marina Katys on the eve of this program we heard. Question: What is the age and what is the profile of professional main customers of your personnel agency?

Tatyana Karakozova:

These are mainly people under 35, up to 40 years old, but these are those to whom we can actually offer work. As for those who generally apply to the agency, of course this is an older age. But it was said that a person can, and at the age of 50, is quite qualified to fulfill duties on almost any site - I cannot agree with this. The point is not that he is not adapted and he does not have any skills, he did not rebuild internally, he does not have the opportunity to learn much, as the young man does, and often there is no desire. That is, I constantly face the fact that a person for 45 says to me: "Why do I need a computer, I have a secretary." But how can a person work without a computer today? Agree, this is strange. As Professor Preobrazhensky said, that we have a devastation, and not in the outside world. This moment, of course, was not taken into account by the gentleman who spoke about fifty -year -olds.

Lev Roitman:

As I understand it, you mean professors from the Bulgakov "dog heart"?

Tatyana Karakozova:

Of course.

Lev Roitman:

And now to Evgeny Gontmacher: I will ask you to explain the strange discrepancy between statistics - the level of registered unemployment in Russia below 3%, we can say that by world standards insignificant. At the same time, there is a level of unemployment, which is determined by the methodology of the International Labor Organization, and in Russia it is pulled by 12%, and this is already a giant figure, this is nearly 20 million people in Russia. How to understand this?

Evgeny Gontmamer:

There is no contradiction between these two numbers. The point is which people fall into the first category, those who are officially registered on labor exchanges and those who are considered according to the methodology of the international labor organization. The difference in the following categories: according to the ILO methodology, people who are on vacation, for example, due to the fault of the administration, are considered unemployed, we now have a lot of such enterprises; Those who are engaged in part -time work; And just those who are looking for work. As a rule, so far, unfortunately, the practice is such that if a person is looking for a job, he lasts to the labor exchange, to the employment service, he probably more often goes to some kind of “Russian personnel” agency than to the state employment service in search of work. Polls show, and in general, this is probably known to everyone, that if a person has a desire to change his job, first of all he begins to call up and ask his friends. As a rule, this is what all the search for work is exhausted, because a person can find something in this circle. Then, the second, a person begins to watch, for example, the announcements that appear in the newspapers, in different ballots and only then, when these options were exhausted, and when the person, as Tatyana Georgievna said correctly here, something has already focused in his head, he finally goes to the employment service. Therefore, this selection is from 12% to 3% - this is what it happens in such stages. In fact, the number of unemployed in our country is about 12 and 3%somewhere in the middle, because a significant part of the officially registered unemployed works, they are simply not registered as workers, do not pay taxes with what they earn, are called “shadow employment”. On the other hand, those people who, according to the ILO methodology are unemployed, for example, who are in administrative leave, they also work in a large part. Therefore, a real picture, if we are talking about those people who really do nothing, but would like to work, is about 5, 6, 7%, unfortunately, there is no exact data.

Lev Roitman:

Of course, this figure is not pleasing, although again in the international comparison it is not so high if, for example, we will take into account that Bulgaria is more than 15%, even in Spain, unemployment is about 17%, not to mention the former, residual Yugoslavia - there are 25%and even higher. Be that as it may, everyone is unemployed, this is exactly every individual person and he has his own problems, his tragedies and his own life plans, which can collapse precisely in connection with the loss of work. What chances does Russia provide its unemployed? I am again addressing this issue to Eugene Gontmacher.

Evgeny Gontmamer:

I believe that the worst period when there are really no jobs in the country, it is still ahead of us. Now, in fact, if we speak very simple, there is work for almost everyone. The only problem is that a person often does not dare to go to the work that does not correspond to his level of education, the level of his requests, I mean in view of the lower direction. It often happens that people are afraid to move to live in some other city, another area, it is clear - we have great difficulties, we still do not have such a real housing market, these are quite big problems. But, nevertheless, in terms of the number of jobs, including in the shadow economy, the number of people who would like to work really is about the same value. Therefore, here, of course, we can say, you can expect from the state that it will create new jobs now, but I dare to assure you that there will be no such actions from the state in the coming years, because money is needed for this, there is no money. And then just the creation of new jobs, to build another workshop at the enterprise at the expense of the employment fund is ineffective, as practice has shown. New jobs should be created in the field of small and medium-sized businesses, and here the state should give some tax preferences, to ensure security, for example, the same entrepreneurs, this is said a lot now. This is where some kind of chance can give the state to our people - to create an opportunity for them in order to find and look for this real work and a chance for entrepreneurs. And direct support, the maximum of what will be done - the payment of these unemployment benefits, and then, from my point of view, it is necessary to tighten this system radical, and probably provide an opportunity for training and obtaining new specialties, those that are really needed in our labor market.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you. Here, statistics are in front of me, this is what Evgeny Gontmamer is talking about, of course, is fair, but at the same time it is amazing: the low level of registration of the unemployed precisely because the state, no matter how,, but still, pays unemployment benefits. In addition, after all, it exists in accordance with the Law on Employment, the law of the 91st year, the system of retraining, retraining of personnel, where they also pay a scholarship. And amazing, but in Moscow last year only 17 thousand people took these schools, these courses, these, sometimes, institutes and academies of retraining. A total of 17 thousand people in Moscow, which has the population equal to the population of the Czech Republic. This is weird. But we will continue our conversation and try to find out this oddity.

I propose to listen to another fragment from a mini -request of Muscovites. This fragment confirms the point of view of Tatyana Georgievna:

Marina Katys:

After the crisis, a huge number of people lost their jobs, and it was quite difficult for many to re -get a job. Among your friends there are people who have lost their jobs?

- Yes, there are who have lost their jobs, but the fact is that the mentality of the Soviet person should somehow change, because in this situation, it is naturally necessary to find work, it may not even be in the specialty, especially those people who are over 45 years old. And this work can be found. My friend who worked at the biofac, now she leads the company for the sale of cosmetic creams with biological additives, in fact, which she is very well versed in.

Marina Katys:

Is it easy for young people to get a job now?

- The question is difficult. But I think, again, the mentality of our graduates, and those who have lost their jobs, should start with something smaller, with any absolutely work. And then look for. "

Lev Roitman:

The opinion of the Muscovite. Tatyana Georgievna Karakozova, how do you comment on it, what you heard?

Tatyana Karakozova:

I can't disagree. I would like to give such an example a small example - I have my relative, she is not from Moscow, very far from distant edges, and now she has a son here in the hospital, and she arrived, she does not have a residence permit, she has no housing, she has nothing. And she found a job, and she works all the time. How it interrupted is only God knows, but nevertheless, it works. And young people come to me who say: there is no work, give us a job. Here is the word "give" - no one owes anything to anyone, we must do everything ourselves.

Lev Roitman:

Thanks Tatyana Georgievna. Again, Evgeny Gontmamer, I will ask you just to clarify the problem that remained in the first part of our program, I will again give data that is in front of me: in Moscow 56 thousand people are registered as unemployed, there are 87 thousand vacancies in the city data bank. Naturally, professions may not coincide, qualifications may coincide, may not meet these vacancies to meet the composition, contingent of registered unemployed, which is available in the capital - everything is clear here. But other statistics - in Moscow, where there are still 1% of registered unemployed, for example, in construction half are visitors not just from other cities of Russia, but visitors from other states, and a quarter of these visitors are Turks from Turkey, so they work in Moscow construction. How can you comment on this? And here I have a question somewhere in the subtext: are these figures in general about the presence of unemployment in Russia in general? Indeed, in the Far East, supposedly today there is almost a problem of colonization of the Far East by the Chinese and Koreans who work there, and the Russians do not work, they are registered or looking for work.

Evgeny Gontmamer:

But you immediately asked a lot of questions. As for Moscow, you said before that only 17 thousand people went to retraine in Moscow, in fact, this is a lot, because Moscow is a colossal labor market. Indeed, Moscow plus the region is almost like the Czech Republic by the population and here in this compact space it is relatively easy to find work, Tatyana Georgievna cited an example of her relative. And you see - 56 thousand unemployed, 87 thousand vacancies, that is, in principle, one to one, even more. As for the fact that we have a lot of builders, including not only from Ukraine, but also from Turkey, here the situation, it seems to me, is a little different. Paradoxically, the work of migrant workers, it is much cheaper and better than what could now be expected from our builders. Here we immediately encounter several factors, here is what we have already talked about is the overstated level of exactingness of the same labor. Our builder, he is not used to working at a pace as builders from the same Turkey do, I'm not talking about Germans or Americans. Not far from the White House, they build a new building of the American embassy, I drive through every morning and just amazed - how ants work. On the other hand, there is really no this quality. Our builders are used to it, and we all know very well, saw our new buildings, residential buildings and offices, as is done. Therefore, in the market conditions, when there is competition, when you can choose and not only in the country to attract a team of builders, but also attract even from other countries, a very private owner has every right, and in this sense I support it, has every right to choose those who work cheaper and better. And therefore, here is one of those facts that suggests that our work force in the employment market loses according to so many points, in very many specialties, and the same builders who have left us without work, although there are practically no unemployed builders in Moscow, but let's say, in the surrounding areas, well, for them they will work better, because they will work better, because they were so educated, they worked more than one year), these people must apparently be retrained, they must be engaged in what is, there may be even less qualified work. This is the problem of the whole generation. We discussed this here before the start of the program, which is why the problem of 40-50 year olds surfaced, this is a generation that was formed, including from the point of view of labor skills, in those still 70-80s, when the main thing was to go to work, they paid money for being there, no one particularly controlled how you work. Now these people are already quite difficult for them, if only for age -related reasons, to rebuild.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Evgeny Gontmamer. And Marina Katys, Marina, you not only spent as usual your mini -auto capacity of Muscovites on the eve of the program, but also studied the problem that we are talking about.

Marina Katys:

I think that here is the main problem of that part of the Russian population that has lost their jobs recently, the same that emigrants who left the Soviet Union to other countries are faced. This, as a rule, is a reluctance to go to work, which is less prestigious than before. And here you just need to look the truth - if a person is not in demand as a doctor, he must find another specialty if he is not in demand as a Shakhtar, he must find another specialty. And these are normal conditions for existence around the world. You can, indeed, say this in confirmation of this that the young guys who are currently graduating from universities, I know several examples: the young man graduated from Moscow University, the Faculty of Soil Science, trained in the States, he was offered good work there, but he still wanted to return to Russia, as a result, he was not in demand in his specialty, now he is the manager of Pepsi Cola. Another young man graduated from the Psychological Department of Moscow State University, he was not in demand as a psychologist in a direct specialty, now he works in a dairy company the same manager. Many guys go into small business simply because people with higher education are needed there, and it is not so important what it is, it is important how much a person is teaching, how much he is able to adapt to new living conditions. And this, of course, is the difference between young people and a generation that grew up under the Soviet regime.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Marina. And again, the line Tatyana Georgievna Karakozova: with what contingent do you expect to work in the future, because still those unemployed who come to you are people who have lost their jobs for some reason?

Tatyana Karakozova:

You know, I wanted to immediately put everything in place. The fact is that we are a recruiting agency that is engaged in the selection of staff, not employment. That is, we are looking for staff for firms that need it, and do not employ the unemployed who come to us. Therefore, of course, I am interested in people who can be interesting to my potential employer, that is, my customer. Naturally, a little my work is different from the labor exchange, from what the labor committee and employment in its branches makes. If we talk about working with the unemployed, of course, come to us, now, in general, at the expense of the media, people have become more competent and generally learned that there is a recruiting agency that dealt with these issues. Previously, even 5-7 years ago, they knew a little about this. Но принципиальное отличие агентств по трудоустройству, которые берут деньги с соискателей за то, что предлагают им варианты работы и агентств, которые занимаются подбором персонала и берут деньги с работодателя за подбор - они и определяют то, что немножечко различен контингент у людей, с которыми приходится работать. Возвращаясь к безработным, они действительно у нас появляются, но это, как правило, люди или пришедшие просто для того, чтобы обозначиться в базе данных, но мало перспективны нам по большому счету или в силу возраста, или в силу низкой квалификации. Или, допустим, безработные молодые - они, может быть, перспективны, но действительно опыта работы у них нет, и мы мало что можем им предложить. Мы ведь можем предложить только то, что у нас есть на сегодняшний день на руках. Допустим, у меня 30 заказчиков, из них такие-то, такие-то вакансии.