Uzbek Internet - 2

The program involves: the leader of the Uzbek opposition movement "Birlik", Abdurahim Pulat, the Uzbek opposition journalist Anvar Usmanov and the head of the site Ferghana.ru Daniil Kislov.

Tengiz Gudava: I received an e -mail letter, I read it: “Dear Tengiz, I write to you about your last program of January 23. For those who are familiar with the strap, it turned out to be ridiculous. I think it would be more useful for American taxpayers if you gave a word for discussion to the other side for the other side of your respectful radio for your respectful radio Self-advertisements of Uzbek oppositionists.

Sincerely,

Daniil Kislov,

Author and head of the network project

Ferghana community "

Mr. Kislov and Anvar Usmanov - the participants of our conversation - in this way we have the opportunity to answer the questions posed, in any case, send them to the address.

I welcome respected interlocutors, they are all at different points of the globe: the leader of the Uzbek opposition movement "Birlik", a political emigrant, doctor of sciences Abdurahim Pulat - by phone from Washington. The Uzbek opposition journalist, also one of the opposition leaders and political emigrant Anvar Usmanov, says with us from Munich, and the head of the site Ferghana.ru Daniil Kislov - from Moscow.

Gentlemen, before moving directly to the conversation, let me notice that the “disappearance of President Islam Karimov”, which we talked about in the last program, was, of course, a small mystification, let's say, by modeling a possible situation. Immediately after the publication of that transfer, the Uzbek president appeared before the public and went on a visit to Spain.

Mr. Kislov, please, you have a word.

Daniil Kislov: Firstly, Tengiz, I would like to express my gratitude for the fact that you quoted my letter on your air, this is very flattering to me, and all these questions that I addressed to you in this letter-they remain, in general. I would like to turn them to our participants in the meeting of today. Regarding the transfer, the transfer was, so to speak, political, but I am mainly interested in the issue of the Internet of Uzbek, there are somewhat such opinions about my site and the Uzbek Internet in general. I have a slightly different opinion on this issue; I would like to hear the answer to the maxim that Mr. Usmanov directed to me

Tengiz Gudava: Anvar Usmanov, Mr. Kislov asks a fairly clear question: who stands behind Ferghana.ru?

Anvar Usmanov: A few years ago, by the way, I put Ferghana.ru in an example. I liked the approach, a look at ethnography, but then, with a closer acquaintance, I understood a lot. Look, we open the Ferghana.ru website. The “Politics” section, for example, is more interested in politics, look at what is given in the section of politicians - of course, of course, all the official sites of Uzbekistan, of course, Hakimiat Tashkent, the service of the diplomatic service of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Embassy of various countries, the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan, and even the Embassy of Kazakhstan in Lithuania. Nothing else, as is usually done in all sites that claim some objectivity, some other sites that are more or less different from the official ones are not given. Well, let's say this is one of the questions.

Second: I drew attention to the polemic on the pages of Ferghana.ru. Those who mainly appear on the pages of the site - by the way, these are people, mainly nostalgic for past times, these are people who, in general, completely ignored by the opinions of others, can insult them and vilify in every possible way. Meanwhile, I want to say that, entering the forum, there are rules, for example, calls for illegal actions are strictly prohibited, messages insulting someone else's religion or national dignity, a direct insult to the interlocutor with open text. Not to mention the fact that it is even written there that "try to make less spelling errors." Thank you, we will try not to do them. I understand that the workers of Ferghana.ru do not make spelling errors.

Tengiz Gudava: We are a little constrained by the time frames, and I would ask the participants to be more concise. Do you have everything, Anvar?

Anvar Usmanov: I don't have everything. Knowing about the people who perform on these pages of the Ferghana.ru site, I recognize some of my good opponents, and I will tell you, Daniel, we do not live in a closed space. I have been in journalism for a long time, both in the Moscow and Tashkent, my colleagues know you very well, those who will controved with you, and I will tell you, ears, excuse me, the Karimov team stick out very well behind your site, I tell you directly if you want to hear my answer.

Tengiz Gudava: Mr. Kislov, such an answer was given to your question Mr. Usmanov, tell me how you accept such an answer?

Daniil Kislov: I would like to parry these answers on the points. The first response point concerned the catalog. The second response point concerned the forum of the Ferghana.ru website.

The Ferghana.ru website is more than the forum, more than just a catalog, it is a private site that has grown to the size, so to speak, the information portal. The Fergana.ru catalog is one of the sections of this site. It prescribes those sites, those resources that send me their addresses and ask to prescribe them in this catalog. In the same catalog there is a rating - a rating on clicks from this catalog on these resources. Well, excuse me, for some reason it so happened that in the first places in the rating of clicks there are sites that Mr. Usmanov listed, these are official Uzbek sites or sites of some embassies. In this catalog there are no Birlik and Erk sites. But there is no only one reason - because I did not receive from the managers of these projects a request to insert their projects into this catalog. If such a request comes - without problems, they will participate in this rating.

Second: as for the forum. The forum is quite visited, but it is almost completely not modified. The problem is that the problem is that Ferghana.ru leads the site, well, almost one person is me. My wife and programmer Andrei Velichko also participate in his work on him. The Ferghana.ru Forum is one of the most visited forums in general of the Uzbek Internet, but from the total number of visitors to Ferghana.ru, only about 5 percent go to the forum. The main section of Ferghana.ru is the news that is visited most of all, it is about two thousand visitors every day, and unique visitors, from different computers and IP addresses. If you open the "News" section, then every day you will see up to about five news of some publications. Basically, these are publications of the Russian press, as well as the author’s materials of Ferghana.ru, as well as materials from various publications, so to speak, foreign information agencies. If you open today's news release (01.29.), Then you will read there five materials that are from completely different sources and with a completely different focus of opinions. The very first is the material of the Director of Internyus, departments in Uzbekistan, Josh Macro from the analysis of 10 years of the Karimov regime and alternative political positions in the Republic of Uzbekistan, and a lot of the activities of the Birlik party and the ERC party. And we are constantly trying to give alternative materials. I would like to emphasize that the news section is the only section of our site that reflects the position of its author. The position of its author, that is, me, is that we give various materials on a variety of topics. Of course, there is also officialdom, there are opposition, quite sharp materials.

I would also like to fend off this opinion that the ears of the Karimov regime are sticking from Ferghana.ru - I would like to say that, among other things, my site provides free hosting services to various sites, and today at the Fergana hosting. There are two Uzbek opposition sites-this is a “zone-uz”, which is dedicated to Uzbek prisons and a position in Uzbek prisons, and it is also a human rights society “Mazlum”, which has no opportunity to open a paid hosting on some resource, and therefore they asked for me, and I discovered this opportunity. In every possible way, I reject any accusations that Ferghana.ru has anything to do with both the official Uzbek authorities, and to the official authorities of Russia, or to some opposition publications, movements or parties. This is a purely private, my own, my personal information journalistic product.

Tengiz Gudava: I think it's time to give the word to our Washington interlocutor Mr. Abdurahim Pulat. Abdurahim, in addition to your reaction to an already tied conversation, I would like to ask a question: what is your site - “Birlik” - differs from the Ferghana.ru website?

Abdurachim Pulat: Anvar said how the ears stick out at Ferghana.ru. Here is the answer of Mr. Kislov - just these ears, his well -built answer immediately reminded me of the speeches of Mr. Yastrzhembsky or spokesman for the President of Uzbekistan, I, unfortunately, do not remember his last name. When the first is asked about the situation in Chechnya, as he lists, everything is so good, and then he notices in passing, yes, there are some shortcomings. Well, the press secretary of the President of Uzbekistan is not worth talking about. Here Mr. Kislov definitely repeats these ears. This is our difference from the site Kislov. I could say, and most often, when people try to somehow show their, to put it mildly, bad attitude, they say that "I do not visit such sites, say Ferghana.ru." I won’t say that, I often go to this site, but generally go to all sites to know what is happening in the virtual world. In the beginning, in fact, it was an intellectual site, they openly talked about it, that is, they claimed it, and it seemed that it was so. Here, you know, there are known words of Hegel’s philosopher, which are approximately like this: freedom is a great word, and an even greater object. If a person is healthy in spirit and body, his chest should rise above when hearing the sounds of this word. First of all, the intelligentsia should have such an attitude to freedom. This is not visible in the website of Ferghana.ru. Because Ferghana.ru claims to describe the situation in Uzbekistan, and in Uzbekistan - almost medieval slavery. You will see this in Ferghana.ru - no. Here are even the listing of those links that they give, show, Mr. Kislov said in his transfer, unfortunately, there is little the opposition. If they do not see freedom, if they do not see slavery and the difference between them, and want to engage in some intellectual work - this is just utopia, because in conditions of slavery there can be no intellectual activity.

Tengiz Gudava: Mr. Kislov, today on your site is an article by the director of Internya from Uzbekistan, which you are talking about, Josh Macrolera, it is called "Uzbekistan: 10 years of repression and alternative political positions." This article provides quite well -known facts of human rights violations, in particular, in relation to the participants in our conversation today, the persecution of the opposition, and so on. But in general, as I understand it, your site does not really favors the opposition and shunes human rights topics, is there such an impression, are I right or is I mistaken?

Daniil Kislov: It seems to me that the gentlemen who are involved in our today's conversation are trying to confuse cards in some way. I am talking about the fact that there are sections dedicated to both the zone -UZ and human rights in Uzbekistan, they say - no, this is not. It seems to me that the main accusation that they have against me is that Ferghana.ru did not turn out to be a handful of their performances. If you open on the "News" section of Ferghana.ru Rubric "Human Rights" - you will find a lot of materials here, and the appeal of the State Department of the American about human rights in Uzbekistan, and also others and other materials. The fact is that Ferghana.ru in his activities of information does not have any political direction, we only want to reflect the opinions of various people, various media on various issues of the entire Central Asian region. To my great regret, until recently, I had no my own correspondent in the region, this work is being carried out now, and we are accredited in the Tashkent Foreign Ministry, and when I have my own correspondent, we will, of course, raise these questions with our own forces. The only thing I would like to say: this is that Ferghana.ru will always adhere to a neutral, correct approach to these problems in her work. We will never be a mouthpiece of any political parties.

Tengiz Gudava: Specify, I don’t understand, Daniel, the main goal of this Internet site is what you want to bring this site into the world?

Daniil Kislov: The main goal, which over the past three years, it has existed, was primarily created as a truly ethnographic, cultural resource, and most of it, about 90 percent of the volume is devoted to the culture of Uzbek, poetry, visual arts, as well as history, including the history of Russian Uzbekistan, because Ferghana is my hometown. This is a city that was built during the Russian colonial era. I also do not have any pet before the Russian colonial era there, but I really value the history of the Russian people on this Asian grounds. And moreover, in my everyday life I try to always attract some Uzbek favorite motives, from pilaf to toilets to my Russian life and the life of my friends, this is the first. The second: when the news section was opened, the main goal was to convey to the Internet readers in Uzbekistan and in the entire Central Asian region the opinions of Russian newspapers about this region, as well as Western sources. The fact is that until recently, especially Uzbekistan was in some information isolation, and only recently did residents have the opportunity to buy Russian newspapers or go online. By the way, I also wanted to say when I last traveled to Uzbekistan, it was last fall, I specifically went to the 12 Internet cafes of Tashkent and checked everywhere, and I was also interested in the admins of these cafes, whether there was access to Birlik sites and Uzbekistanerk.org, and at 11 of these cafes, I personally checked it, he was there. There was no cafe, because, probably, there were some kind of technical reasons, but with the abundance of current providers, I think that there will still be access there. So, the main goal of the Ferghana.ru information project is information tapes, to give people who have Internet access to Uzbekistan, to read various sources, including critical, including, of course, some positive points that arise. The world is not divided into black and white. The world is not divided only into official Karimov propaganda, as oppositionists like to say, and these oppositionists who criticize the regime. There are much more nuances, the palette is quite rich. We want to reflect in our activities all this palette. As we do - to judge this to our readers.

Tengiz Gudava: Thank you. I want to say that the Ferghana.ru website, despite the fact that today he came, as they say, under the shelling of our opposition Uzbek forces, far, say, is not the most odious and official, I do not know about the "ears", but I know that this is an active site, a living site and, in fact, I think it is interesting to people. Nevertheless, all the questions that are asked here, I think, also have the right to exist and should be interesting. In democratic societies, it is believed that citizens have the right to know about the president elected by them, including their health status. Recently, a lot has been said that President Karimov is sick, but I have not seen official messages on this subject. Mr. Kislov, what do you know?

Daniil Kislov: Well, you know, I do not have any detailed information, just like you, and the same way as our today's partners who participate in this program. There are only some speculations, rumors. Yes, they talk about it, they talk about this at the Ferghana.ru forum, I receive letters about this. Yes, I am very sorry that in the states that found themselves after the collapse of the USSR, in principle, in almost all, as well as mainly in the republics of the South of the CIS, this problem has not been solved. The same applies to Russia, remember Yeltsin, when he was sick before leaving, we knew very badly about it, in fact we only found out after. Of course, yes, it seems to me that the right of all people is to know whether their president is sick or not, and what are his plans for a future political life, whether he will leave, or will look for a successor, or something. Yes, unfortunately, this is not. I would also like to have some details on this issue.

Tengiz Gudava: Anvar Usmanov, please.

Anvar Usmanov: Well, finally you provided me. So, I want to say: Mr. Kislov spoke of such a wide palette of opinions. Давайте возьмем самую свежую его палитру, опубликована в сайте "Фергана" именно та наша передача "Узбекский Интернет". Вот какая палитра идет в ходе обсуждения этого материала. Сулейман Абдал: "Эти сомнительные личности, проходимцы", - это имеются в виду, соответственно, мы, я и Абдурахим Пулат. Другой, под именем Узбек, говорит о том, что это вечный, говорит, редактор бирликовского журнала "Харакят" всегда пьян. Господин Кислов, мы уже привыкли к обвинениям, не подумайте, что мы даже обиделись. Потрясает меня другое. Я внимательно действительно, вчера особенно, просто почитал полемику, и вдруг я четко обнаружил, простите пожалуйста, но великодержавный тон полемики, он так и есть. Пусть простят меня радиослушатели, но такие термины - "вернемся к нашим ишакам", "бзбеки", и далее вот эти постоянные оскорбления, простите пожалуйста, в большинстве, я подчеркиваю, в большинстве участников полемики - наводят меня на грустные мысли.

Тенгиз Гудава: В беседе принимали участие: Даниил Кислов - создатель и руководитель сетевого проекта "Ферганское сообщество", Абдурахим Пулат - лидер оппозиционного движения "Бирлик" и одноименного Интернет-сайта, и журналист Анвар Усманов.

Заключительная, третья часть передачи об Узбекском Интернете - в следующем выпуске.