Samuel Lurie

The host of the St. Petersburg hour of the Liberty Live program Viktor Rezunkov: today we have a well -known St. Petersburg writer Samuel Lurie. Samuel, I would like to first discuss with you one very interesting thing that happened just yesterday. Yesterday, August 13, President Vladimir Putin signed a decree: "On the approval of the principles of official behavior of civil servants", which contains 16 points, their journalists have already called "16 commandments of Vladimir Putin." In particular, Vladimir Putin calls in a veiled form of officials not to take bribes. He writes: "The civil servant is designed to exclude actions related to the influence of any personal property (financial) and other interests that impede the conscientious performance of official official duties." Journalists have already commented on to some extent this decree, they said that Kolya Vladimir Putin calls for officials not to take bribes and behave well, then he was practically deprived of any mechanisms for managing these officials. I would like to hear your comment.

Samuel Lurie: I, as a person with a specific imagination, imagine, first of all, with which these 18 million officials are probably read today, if he has already been sent, everyone in his office locked himself up, with a portrait of Vladimir Putin, this decree, where it is written that if you see in your business that it can bring some benefit to you, first of all, to make this, first The higher authorities, and the higher authorities must take measures to prevent a conflict of interests. I think they are secretly smiling incredibly poisonous, because, at least these bosses, they must probably perceive this as a weakness of power. Probably grinning to themselves, before proceeding with the resolution of a conflict of interests, they will apparently say to themselves - “they will not chop their heads, they will not plant, but the commandments,“ well, they taught the moral code of the builder of communism, where it was said that it was necessary to love the people, suppose fraternal Czechoslovakia, and the people of fraternal Albania are not necessary ... not so on ... You will see. On the other hand, this may be represented by evidence of state wisdom. I would like to remind you that in the "History of one City", one mayor issued such decrees "On the unhindered pies of the stove" ... Say that everything is possible except that it is impossible, and so on ... this, in fact, is touching. Only Saltykov is recalled, so you see this wise gnot, who swims for this giant open -grown pole, which is a Russian bureaucracy, and says: "Do you know, pike, what is virtue?"

Viktor Rezunkov: In fact, journalists write that Vladimir Putin even compromised himself with such a decree, acted as a person who absolutely does not imagine a picture of what is happening and entertains himself with some hopes. You don't have such an impression?

Samuel Lurie: you know, I do not belong to such incredible fans of the current president, but this decree causes some kind of, not to say sympathy, but deep sympathy. This is really a completely powerless tool. In addition, you need to know the Russian official. In any case, he sees this evidence of weakness. He understands that they do not get his feet on him, do not shout, and our bosses respect only strength, and only by fear, only with a stick you can force them not to take, for example, bribes ... This is really a very touching attempt to turn to their best feelings. And this gives out in our president some internal growth and self-improvement, it is very different for Marxism.

Victor Rezunkov: Samuel, so coincided, literally these days the latest data from the VTsIOM surveys, about the moods in Russia this summer, suddenly appeared. Here's what they write, very curious moments that I would like to discuss with you. Sociologists draw attention to the fact that in 1998, according to the results of the surveys, 42 percent of the inhabitants of Russia were ready to endure the difficulties, today their number is already 53-56 percent. Since May 2001, the proportion of people who say that everything is not so bad and you can live below. In your opinion, what does this testify? Very curious numbers.

Samuel Lurie: The numbers, of course, although we are all used to not particularly trust sociologists, but I don’t know how the question was asked, but what an alternative? Here, say, I would be asked if you agree to endure difficulties, but I would say - no, I do not agree - and what will I do then? It seems to me that this is just evidence that people most people in our country are realistically related to life. They have no choice, tolerate difficulties, or not to endure. He agrees to endure difficulties. It just shows that smart people who understand that nothing good awaits us ahead, just becomes a little more, life teaches people. Maybe there were some hopes before, and the person could say, I agree to tolerate difficulties a year or two, for the sake of the fact that then everything would be fine, but the people of my age, who all the time said that we live for the sake of some future, for the sake of children, for the sake of grandchildren, and so on, two or three more generations will die, and then everything will not be fine ... Well, you won’t take anything and take it anymore. Yes, it is necessary to endure difficulties, life consists of enduring difficulties. This is all the same, if sociologists asked a question, in general, do they agree to live, or not? Yes, they agree. To live - it means to endure difficulties. The fact that in our country, as you said, as much as 53 percent agree to live on is a very encouraging figure.

Viktor Rezunkov: Other numbers, according to VTsIOM, I quote the results of polls, on the part of the Russian ethnic group the growth of nationalist sentiments is especially noticeable to support the clearly chauvinistic slogan: "Russia for Russians." This idea is considered acceptable 55 percent of the respondents. In 1999, there were 43 percent. Explicit growth.

Samuel Lurie: there is not even statistics here, but simply, when you have to ride on suburban electric trains, you are driving all the time our so -called alienation areas around the railway, there are garages, walls, and so on, and by the number of inscriptions, which Russias say for Russians, Russia - everything, the rest, the death is like me, and so on, you see, yes, what is the energy and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust and lust, so Angers do not weaken. I do not take any reasons, because all my life I think over them and I believe that there is no such direct answer. But I can say that all this is extremely sad. Yes, probably, a person should experience some kind of relief at the thought that there are some people who, unlike him, do not deserve life at all. By the way, I am simply surprised when our press writes: “Again, an insulting inscription is discovered” ... Well, what is offensive? Death is so death, I don’t see anything offensive here, but they showed me on TV on the wall of the court in Rostov: “Budanov is the best of the Russians,” this inscription, as I understand it, is an incredible insult, however, I will not imagine such a daredevil that would decide to erase it. What to do ... This is just the misfortune of our country, such a disease that will probably not pass for a very long time, and because of which the not those against whom the inscriptions suffer, but literally everything, because we all feel that in society it is common, how water is dissolved, when we say that there is so much water, anger is dissolved. There is nothing to be done.

Victor Rezunkov: I get the impression that some completely hypertrophied politicization has acquired a Kaliningrad problem. What is your opinion?

Samuel Lurie: It seems to me that there are state-owned ones, and they, in fact, are now all, the means of information, somehow recovered in this case. In my opinion, they themselves even, probably, are a secret ... This is a typical case of brainwashing. A very ordinary, technical, in reality, probably a simple problem was raised to the level of some state tragedy, instead of asking some ordinary people. I am completely sure that people in the Kaliningrad region will live extremely well, there is a way to get a visa, “Oh,“ Ah what a horror, you need to get a visa and waste time ” - yes, in order for me to get a passport in our own St. Petersburg, I need to spend an incredible amount of time, and no one says“ Russia to weapons ”. Are we not used to bureaucratic delays? Well, you will get a visa, and then how much you will ride. I do not really understand, of course, it is wonderful that this very Dmitry Rogozin stands on guard of our interests, but I do not really understand, but what does he, in fact, offer? It is also completely impossible that if you are a former Soviet man, then you can travel around the world without any visa, there are state borders - no, they say, all this does not concern. Well, decides. Such cards or other, expensive visas or vice versa are cheap, but it was also in the press that almost 500 main Moscow chiefs tried to acquire the Kaliningrad registration in order to travel to Europe.

And then I watch reports on TV, what to do to the simple Kaliningrad speculator, he is so used to traveling over 5 dollars across the border and selling some illegal goods there - poor, how will we protect his interests? After all, they all literally live, traveling to Poland, speculation and smuggling - "What, now, now you can not engage in speculation and smuggling?" And this problem rises to the level of state security, and adults in the polls say - we will rise, the people will not be anymore ... Of course, Joseph Vissarionovich and here, as everywhere, put such a huge historical mine, leaving this area separately from the main territory, and in many other places we saw it, but we will live in the 21st century, there are reason to solve such problems. They are everywhere in the world and everywhere in the world is easily solved. Nothing happens at all. From scratch, the media created such a problem for the former Soviet man that he was worried a little, searches patriotic feelings and think less that actually utility prices are very growing.

Victor Rezunkov: But look, what progress, imagine about 15 years ago, so that people talk so freely about how to go somewhere, do not go somewhere

Samuel Lurie: Yes, and somehow they already know that there are such visas and such, and give us the right to travel around the world, otherwise we feel ... This is really good.

Victor Rezunkov: Achieving ... to the question of history. 56 years ago, as not far, if you turn around, the famous resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) was adopted on the magazines "Zvezda" and "Leningrad", and I cannot but talk on this topic, because it was one of the key moments in Russian culture.

Samuel Lurie: Yes. It was so close that I personally knew several, even many people who were present in Smolny at these meetings, where Zhdanov read out this very report, decisions, the exceptions of Akhmatova and Zoshchenko were adopted. This is really a fatal story for St. Petersburg. Of course, this was the first volley of the future of Leningrad. It was already clear that some of the local, Leningradsky, leadership were doomed to the tops, and then many Leningraders would go to the “Big House”, to execution, and to the camps, and our regional committee, and so on, all this was apparently predetermined, and this was the beginning of the strike of St. Petersburg. But for me, as a writer, there is sad here - this is a constant poetry of betrayal in the history of Soviet literature, universal collective betrayal. Indeed, Soviet literature in this sense is a unique, only case when the story tried to combine talent and baseness in man. It was usually believed that this is generally impossible, the baseness is completely talent, but here are 400 or 500 writers, many of them are quite gifted people, and they all must somehow lie, do not respect themselves ... I told me one person, as at this meeting, they all foresee what the thing is going on, Zhdanov read out the report, now they will vote now - all the so -called deciduous ones, all who consider themselves to be decent. For decent, who is ashamed to vote along Akhmatova and Zoshchenko, well, Zoshchenko, at least loved in Leningrad, few people knew the writers in Leningrad, she lived in solitude, and Zoshchenko loved everything, he was an absolutely folk writer, they all went up to smoke, so that in the toilets, corridors, smoking, although they were provided for voting ... but everything was provided. At each exit, the Chekists stood, the individuals and everyone politely asked to go into place, unanimously, unanimously vote, and they unanimously, unanimously voted, betrayed their comrades and acted against their conscience. There were not so many such frank villains or pure fools. Most understood what was happening. And this tradition, remember, as in the story of Alexander Yashin "levers", remember, "I am one person at the meeting, and in life another," this still affects the psyche.

Viktor Rezunkov: Samuel, I have such an association, I again remembered the results of the VTIME polls - regarding the opinion of Russians about the war in Chechnya. 43 percent of the respondents believe that the war justifies itself, it must be carried out, of this number, 36 percent believe that it is even necessary to strengthen the fighting, and that is curious - only 5 percent of the respondents insist on the complete cessation of the practice of "stripping". Is this a very depressing picture?

Samuel Lurie: This is such a rare case when I listen to these numbers with shame. I seem to teach myself that collective responsibility does not exist, and I do not answer for my contemporaries and compatriots who support a shameful war - yes, of course, I don’t answer for them, but I am afraid that our children and grandchildren, and those who supported - they would have been responsible for all this. Even the current tragic events in Israel, although there is a completely different story, show how terrible when there is such a constant source of aggression, lawlessness, violence, and malice. I remember when the first Chechen war began, Ella Pamfilova said: "Well, well, there is no mind, there is no conscience, even if the instinct of self -preservation would have worked." But no, as if no one understands that Russia is sick of Chechnya, that this Chechen war was like a cancer tumor, in fact, in the form of a constant disrespect for a person, the constant destruction of human dignity and life - it spreads around the country. It is visible in everything, in the actions of the police, in the actions of the army, the attitude of people to each other, street fights. The fact that the country is full of aggression, anger, fear - the source there in this "black hole". It began - here, 2-3 thousand bandits, I need to neutralize them, neutralize, and now I’m already moving, I try to follow the statistics, although it is completely hiding, only for statistics from children's deaths. And so, it means that several thousand children simply died, five thousand disabled children, 22 thousand Chechen children were left without parents. Well, someone really thinks that it is one of these children will forgive? It is for decades to ahead of a min, adjusted to childhood and the life of future Russians. A huge tragedy occurs, and then some people on the streets reason that it is necessary to intensify the "stripping". This only shows how the former Soviet person is managing.