Radio Liberty - Programs - Round Table

Sports in a wheelchair
Leading Lev Roitman

Lev Roitman:

In the 86th year, the book of Valery Fefelov "There are no disabled people in the USSR" in London. The title of the book Valery Fefelov, one of the founders of the initiative group for protecting the rights of disabled people in the USSR, took a document from the official document, which amazes, I would say, with my false idiocy, even by the standards of the Soviet era. This is a response to the invitation to Soviet disabled sportsmen to participate in the next Olympic Games of the disabled. Times have changed, the All -Russian Society of the Disabled Actively operates, Valery Fefelov and his comrades and his comrades, Russian disabled people are no longer strangers and in international sports, are actively operating. And this is our conversation today. Participate: Boris Minenkov, head of the charity ski center for children with disabilities "Snowball"; Dmitry Shparo, director of the Moscow "Adventure Club"; And with them our Moscow correspondent Marina Katys.

Russian disabled people and sports. Dmitry Igorevich Shparo, I will present you somewhat more details, I have already said, you are the director of the Moscow Adventure Club for 10 years, you have been skiing in the 79th year, I emphasized, I emphasized, it was the North Pole, entered the Guinness Book of Records and it is known that in August you are going to cross the Grenland. The latitude of the northern polar circle and the expedition to the beret disabled, disabled in strollers. And here's the question: why, what drives you?

Dmitry Shparo:

This book, which you mentioned, the truth is that all the conditions, in order for such a book to be written, they were actually and still believed that there are no disabled people in Russia, and although there is no Soviet Union, but in fact there are a lot in ideology, and to achieve, say, from the media, from television, from the radio, from newspapers, so that some things are covered in detail, related to any affairs related to any matters It is still difficult for disabled people, because it is all in the blood, it is not customary to speak at all and talk about disabled people. Of course, disabled people here in Russia still have no real rights. And therefore, such vivid events as, say, the ascent of the disabled to some peak, some powerful distant supermarathons, that what we do, this is all convinced by the fact that it is not right, that, firstly, disabled people exist, and secondly, that these are the same people, they have the same remarkable abilities that they are really much healthier than those people who are customary to call healthy. Therefore, I think that the main idea of ​​crossing Greenland is to equalize the rights of disabled people on a Russian scale, through the scale of the entire planet. Because this is what is happening in Russia, in fact, in other countries also happens, not so that such a terrible country in Russia. Take the rights of people with disabilities in Africa or other third world countries, the situation is also very bad there.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Dmitry Igorevich. Of course, Russia, when it sets itself the standard, it does not strive for African. And I want to notice, by the way, that the book of Valery Fefelov was translated into several European languages. Now Boris Vasilievich Minenkov, I’ll present you somewhat more details, I have already said, you are the head of the charitable ski center for children with disabilities, the center is called “Snowball”, you are a disabled person of the second group, associate professor of the Moscow Higher Technical School named after Bauman. Tell us about your activity.

Boris Minenkov:

The activity began in the year 90, when the disabled in Russia received the right to exist. They organized competitions of skiing disabled people, in which I myself at one time participated in the 91st year, this was our amateur league in the USSR skiing federation. We created a ski club for children with disabilities with disorders of the musculoskeletal system as a result of the disease by children's cerebral paralysis. And in the 91st year, then there was, so to speak, euphoria with the disabled, we managed to organize a school, get a ski equipment for a small money, we managed to arrange a trip of 25 people. With complete comfort, with a full organization, we went to Elbrus to our climbing camp “Gantogan” to MVTU, and after that we continued to work normally. Of course, we do not have such a bright activity as the respected Dmitry Shparo, we enter every house, parents come to us, bring children who themselves cannot go on their feet normally. And when they were brought to us in the 91st year, it was an impressive sight, because the children were carried in their hands, dragged on a sled, under the arms and so on, so on. I have a fairly large sports experience, I am a master of sports in mountaineering in the past, we found the way and methods of organizing this work. We are already working for the 9th year, we have worked out methods, and we are uniting 120 people in Moscow now. Disability was removed from some of our children, some of our children who were engaged in us, they are no longer children, but adults, study, in particular Katya Znamenskaya, she studies at the Faculty of Journalism of Moscow State University, participates in our publications. We have a fairly large press every year, in our activities, mainly a state organization helps us - this is the Moscow Committee on Family and Youth Affairs under the Government of Moscow. It is precisely due to the fact that they pay us for vouchers for summer and winter fees, we were able to establish systemic work. The ledge of the cycle truck helps us well, they provided us with the room. We have, of course, problems, but, nevertheless, I always laugh: why are we working steadily for 9 years? Because we do not have a salary, we work without salary, my family is working - my daughter and granddaughter, and the family of my friend Vladimir Avdeev is working - my wife and two daughters, and we are engaged in this everyday routine work. Every Saturday and Sunday, parents, like the damned, drag these children through all of Moscow, and we are engaged in them. Whoever has the strength to bring children here, those guys get a good result. A small child, he is a disabled person since childhood, he is so accustomed to exist, we mainly help parents, because after all, the extra movement that a person learns, the extra letters that he assimilates, in our classes, at the training camp, for parents this is a great joy.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Boris Vasilievich. I understand that in what you say, there is pride in the results that you have achieved, but there is also pain, somewhere in the adherent, somewhere in the background. On the eve of this program, Marina Katys, our Moscow correspondent, a participant in this program, conducted her mini -request Muscovites, and now she asked: do you think, is it enough in Russia in order to adapt healthy people to the society? So let's listen to one answer.

“I can’t say that nothing is being done, still some events are held, charitable evenings, but still, of course, in my opinion, of course, it is not enough for the disabled. Either competition or some kind of social help, some kind of human communication, because without this disabled, this is not a protected population of the population. Therefore, they need support and not only monetary, but also moral, human, too.”

It was the voice of a Muscovite from a survey of Marina Katys. And, Marina, you, I know, in detail, in detail engaged in the problems of disabled people. What can you tell us?

Marina Katys:

I want to remind you that there are almost 9 million disabled people in Russia, this is the population of just such a metropolis as Moscow, that is, we must imagine the scale of the problem we are talking about. And at the same time in Russia, it is as if it is not even customary to attract disabled people in the teams of healthy people. Now, if we look at the western situation, there you can very often see how a group of young people goes and among them their peer in a wheelchair, who is involved, they simply walk somewhere along the street, and this is a normal picture for Western Europe or America. In Russia, it is impossible to see anything like this, that is, I think even young guys would never occur to him to be friends with a peer who has been spending his whole life in a wheelchair. Well, I will no longer talk about such common places, that the entrances are not adapted for wheelchairs, that a wheelchair does not fit into a normal standard Russian elevator, and so on. That is, the infrastructure in general in Russian society does not take into account the interests of disabled people. Only in large cities they now began to make some paths, congresses from sidewalks, designed for wheelchairs, entrances to shops. And, basically, in the outback, in Russia there is nothing adapted to the life of disabled people. And here, I think, is simply the difference in the mentality: if Western society is ready for the fact that a disabled person is a normal equal member of society, it can participate in the whole life of society, then in Russia practically these 9 million people find themselves in a reservation, limited either an apartment or a club for disabled people where all people have certain physical disabilities and do not participate in life as if with other people. What Boris Vasilievich said about the Snowball Children's School, I know this school and it was characteristic that this children's school has not only children with disabilities, but also ordinary children, that is, do not have any physical disabilities, let's say. And it is very important that these children are skiing together, they are engaged together and study together. For those and other children, this is a very important school.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Marina. And by the way, I must note that another fragment from your mini-request is somewhat contrary to what you said about the moods of Russians who avoid communication with the disabled.

"Among your, maybe acquaintances, maybe friends have people who have a disability?

Of course, I have many such friends, and we communicate absolutely wonderful as with a normal ordinary healthy person. But, of course, we somehow welcome it, we understand that he cannot physically do something, unlike us. We help to mess with the car, with anything, but no one has any doubt, as in childhood no one ever knew about nationalities, this is exactly the same. Generally speaking, a disabled person is another nationality, seriously. And this must be treated like this: a Jew, Tatar, Russian, no matter who is just such a person, he should not be offended only because he is a Jew, and this disabled person, that's all. "

Well, a very vivid answer, I would say, being a Jew, but Boris Vasilievich Minenkov, from your point of vision, is it typical for today's Russian society, such an attitude towards disabled people as equal as to their own?

Boris Minenkov:

In our activities, we do not have this, because, as Marina said, we are engaged in healthy children, disabled people, and for all these are, so to speak, no problems. When we ski skiing, another television arrives, they ask: where is the disabled, everyone ride with a hill with terrible force? I say: now we will remove the skis and go to the base, we will pick, you will see us. And on the other hand, of course, when I go to the collection with my children, and I myself go on crutches, and they hobble, few people do not look away, look away. But at the same time, people do not know how to behave: either this is a hysterical benevoleance, or this is a cold alienation. But people are different, the attitude is different. On the other hand, I don’t feel any special moments of disability, I have many friends, they ride strollers. But you see, I already look specifically, in this world, I may look at everything differently, but, nevertheless, there is no hostile attitude towards us. True, it happens when I ask money for my ski school, they say: what are you asking for the disabled there, we have no money for healthy athletes, and you still ask for something for the disabled there. There are such moments too.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Boris Vasilievich. Dmitry Igorevich Shparo, you take into your expedition, the intersection of Greenland in the northern polar circle, two disabled people in strollers, but you probably cannot take everyone, so you have some kind of system, a selection criterion. What is he?

Dmitry Shparo:

You see, a serious expedition, you need to pass 600 kilometers, an ice desert, skiing, without any support. So, of course, it is equally difficult to choose children both healthy and disabled. For more than a year, we conducted enough training, training camps, medical examinations, psychological tests and, perhaps, forty applicants, who wanted to, selected two guys - Igor Kuznetsov from Barnaul and Alexander Semenov from Tver, these are strong guys. And if you continue the entire topic of the previous conversation, I can say that the requirements for these guys are absolutely the same as the healthy ones. There is one team for us, and in this team there is no subcardation of people with disabilities, the subcommands of healthy ones. And if you return to the goals of the expedition again, this is your first question, then a very important goal of the expedition is to demonstrate that the team can work as a single one, that there is no aggressiveness, there is no confrontation between people with disabilities and healthy, because in fact, as I understand it, I do this problem for a long time and deep enough, the problem of modern civilization, including the Western, is that if the rights of disabled people are actually the rights of disabled people They are equalized, then to overcome the barrier of alienation between disabled and healthy ones is not fulfilled to the end. And now the team that crosses Greenland shows how people can work perfectly together. And in general, continuing the conversation, I can say that we have a children's school at the club, children who study at our school, for them there is no problem of proper understanding of disability. They relate to the disabled just like their peers. I can give another example, say, a very good school in Moscow, similar to what Boris Vasilievich is doing, I am one of the directors of the Ronald McDonald Foundation, there is a sports club in Krylatsky and bring children, quite heavy disabled people who are playing sports there throughout the year. In fact, of course, there are a lot of such examples. And it’s good that in fact there are a lot of them, I think, there may not be very many, but in any case there are people who are in their places, engaged in their work, take into account the fact that disabled people should be involved in this work.

Lev Roitman:

Dmitry Igorevich, this is what I want to ask: in order to, so that we, at least, had some kind of completeness of the participation of Russian disabled people. We do not concern other problems today, in fact, and their masses, the mass, and our listeners will understand that you won’t cover everything in the framework of the radio broadcast, but, say, in the International Olympic Games, there are competitions in football, in basketball, and throwing, and sprint distances, but, say, in football, as Russian Disabled in an international, so to speak, arena?

Dmitry Shparo:

Our players take first places, we have excellent wheelchair football, and I know the children-sportsmen who, say, amputants, but play perfectly, there are my close friends among them. You see, give our guys the opportunity to prove themselves, of course, they will appear. In fact, the Russians have a very strong great potential. Clubs in Moscow exist, clubs exist in other cities, clubs exist football in the countries of the former Soviet Union. There are beautiful swimmers, magnificent athletes. In general, everything has changed lately, the sport that has appeared in the Baltic countries in the Soviet Union first, it is now spreading throughout the territory. The only thing, of course, the state bodies should be correctly related to this, and what I started so bitterly - the Russian media, they are not accustomed to tell about it. Say, our last team, which went to the Olympic Games, disabled, performed well, but there was not a single television report about these competitions, at that time, say, like Japan, Germany talks about these competitions very densely. So, you see, the problems are social, the problems of the correct attitude to the disabled is that there is such a very unpleasant heritage of the country of Soviets.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Dmitry Igorevich. And this, of course, is the problem of a healthy part of society, but is it healthy in this regard? What do you think about this, Boris Vasilievich Minenkov?

Boris Minenkov:

Our country is extensive, there are a lot of people and the very different attitude. And of course, disabled people are those people who are strong in spirit, every day you need to survive, do this or that. But, at the same time, touching the sport, I began to study with the 7th, from the age of 7, from 10 years old, now it is already 18-19, they can already participate in competitions and punch this gap of alienation, which, perhaps, arises between healthy people and disabled people, but most importantly, mostly, the level of civilization.

Lev Roitman:

Thank you, Boris Vasilievich. And I, perhaps, in the conclusion of the program, will return to Valery Fefelov, the author of the book "There are no disabled people in the USSR." Валерий Фефелов был одним из учредителей группы защиты прав инвалидов, инициативной группы, и за эту свою деятельность из Советского Союза он был фактически выброшен в 82-м году. Времена изменились и слава Богу, и пусть меняются дальше.