Russia will not be Catholic

Russia will not be Catholic
Conversation with Father Stanislav Opel


Publication date: May 22, 2001

O. Stanislav Opela is the head of the independent Russian region of the Society of Jesus (Jesuit Order).

- In the Russian press, and even more often in the statements of Orthodox hierarchs, the definition “canonical territory of Orthodoxy” is heard. What meaning do representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate give to this term and what consequences does this have for other faiths?

- As a rule, representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate believe that the territory of the former Soviet Union is the exclusive sphere of influence of Orthodoxy. At the same time, the very concept of “canonical territory” is rather questionable. Nothing like that exists. Residents of Western Europe, starting with Poland, are mostly people of the Catholic or Protestant faith. However, none of these faiths claims any canonical territory of their own. Different Churches with their own hierarchy operate in the same territory. Including the Orthodox Church.

Shortly after the appointment of the Orthodox Metropolitan of Northern Italy, I was in Rome, where I met with John Paul II. The Pope, laughing, said: “I don’t see any obstacles - on the contrary, I would be very pleased if the Metropolitan’s residence was in Rome. Then we would have better contact.”

What does this mean for other faiths? First of all, the Moscow Patriarchate would like to give permission, or rather refuse permission, for the creation of any, even small, structure of another Church or denomination. On March 3, 1992, at the first meeting in Geneva, the Catholic and Orthodox parties came to an agreement that obliges them to inform each other about the emergence of new structures. However, in the press communiqué published following the meeting, a rather vague term was used - “mutual consultations”. The concept of “consultation” is very loose. It may be limited to information, or it may also mean a requirement to obtain the consent of the Moscow Patriarchate for activities in this territory. Subsequently, the Catholic side clarified the meaning of this term in the instructions of the papal commission “Pro Russia” dated June 1, 1992. The instructions explain what mutual consultations should consist of. But this is a document only of the Catholic Church, and in practice it binds only one of the parties. As for the other side, one can only express the wish that everything happens exactly like this.

- You said that the Moscow Patriarchate understands by “canonical territory” all the lands of the former USSR. Thus, it also includes the traditional sphere of influence of Roman Catholicism, represented by a large group of believers living in the territory of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. How do you interpret the papal decision to change the boundaries of a number of dioceses in Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine and the appointment of new bishops to these territories?

- The new diocesan division in the western part of the former USSR and the appointment of new apostolic administrators were by no means dictated by the Pope’s desire to dissociate himself from the region. For example, the Moscow Patriarchate wants to continue to have the right to a decisive vote on the issue of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine. Therefore, the appointment of a new Roman Catholic hierarchy or the creation of new diocesan structures parallels the actions of the Orthodox Church. Moreover, it creates good ground for ecumenical dialogue.

If we talk about dialogue, it is not difficult to foresee long-term difficulties. The term “ecumenism” is used by both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, however, they understand it differently. After several months in Russia, I got the impression that for the Orthodox Church, ecumenism means nothing more and no less than conversion to Orthodoxy. And all activities [of other faiths. - Ed. "NP"} on evangelization, even limited only to questions of faith and theological reflections, directly qualifies as proselytism. Therefore, I believe that a lot of goodwill and a lot of patience will be required on both sides for the ecumenical dialogue to actually take place. For example, in Zagorsk they sell the Anti-Catholic Catechism, a reprint of the 1916 edition. Of course, only limited, narrow circles are engaged in such activities in the Orthodox Church, but nevertheless there are such trends.

- Don’t you think that the relationship between Catholics and Orthodox is burdened by the question of the Greek Catholic Church and the attitude of the Orthodox towards the Uniates?

- The Uniate Church is a problem for all Orthodox Christians, regardless of their openness or closedness towards other faiths. For them, the Greek Catholic Church is something like a Trojan horse. It is not as difficult for them to accept the appointment of apostolic administrators as it is to come to terms with the activities of the Uniate Church. Even very open people in the Orthodox Church, when it comes to relations with the Uniate Church, adhere, to put it mildly, to traditional views.

- How do you assess the visit of the Primate of Poland to Russia and Kazakhstan, during which ecumenical problems were touched upon, in particular?

- It seems to me that the primate’s visit was important for mutual knowledge and assistance from the Polish side of the local Catholic Church. There is still a huge shortage of priests here. Not because in the territory of the former USSR there is a massive conversion to religion, interest in this or that Church is growing, but because the local Catholic communities are very scattered. Until the 90s, the rector of the church in Irkutsk had, apparently, the largest parish in the world, all the way to Vladivostok. With such vast distances, pastoral work is obviously ineffective. Over a very long period of time, a priest can appear in a certain area only a few times. For example, in Kazakhstan, where I myself visited, the distances are so enormous that 1,112 priests are simply not able to visit all the small communities of believers. The famous Polish village of Vershina is located 100 kilometers from Irkutsk. The priest goes there specially every time. If the primate's visit could help bring more priests from Poland to these territories, I think one of the main goals of the visit would be achieved. Moreover, I personally adhere to the point of view that these do not necessarily have to be exclusively Polish priests.

- How do the difficulties in mutual contacts between Catholicism and Orthodoxy compare with the dialogue begun by both faiths after the Second Vatican Council? Meetings take place, a certain area of ​​​​common spiritual good is determined...

- The dialogue between Orthodoxy and Catholicism contains a certain kind of paradox. These two Churches have more in common than any other, and at the same time the dialogue between them is the least advanced. The fact that such a situation has arisen was undoubtedly facilitated by the position of the Orthodox Church - first of all, by the restrictions to which it was subjected under communism. The participation of the Orthodox side in ecumenical meetings was often linked to the obligation to conduct propaganda for the regime. There was not a single ecumenical meeting at which the issue of “world peace” was not raised. There was not a single meeting of the World Council of Churches in Geneva at which the problem of the “struggle for peace” was not raised. This is one of the reasons why the dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church lags far behind the dialogue with other faiths, including non-Christian ones, for example, with Judaism.

- How do you assess the activities of Father Alexander Men? I mean, first of all, the attraction of the intelligentsia to the Orthodox Church and the elements of ecumenism contained in what he preached.

- The activities of Father Alexander Men were of great importance, although, in general, they were limited to a rather narrow circle of people. However, if in Orthodoxy there is at all an element of openness towards the Catholic Church, then this is largely the merit of Father Alexander. I keep in touch with people from his circle, in particular with those who are preparing a collection of his works for publication, and I clearly see that it is indeed possible to conduct an ecumenical dialogue with these people without trying to convert each other to their faith. After Vatican II, there is no reason to strive to convert Orthodox Christians to Catholicism. The Catholic Church has no such aspiration, although some Orthodox not only believe that it strives for this, but also directly speaks of the expansion of Catholicism in the “canonical territory” of Orthodoxy.

After the death of Fr. Alexandra Me, the circles associated with him began to take different directions and became internally divided. This is normal. However, I think that the grain sown by Father Alexander will bear fruit, for example, in some center created here by Catholics, but open to all non-believers. First of all, for those who are close to the problem of faith, the problem of God.

- In the Russian press there are often accusations against Polish priests working in the CIS that they are involved in politics or conduct polonization activities.

- Of course, such statements are greatly exaggerated. And yet I believe that we Poles must be especially careful so that the ministry of our priests is perceived not as Polonization of the Catholic Church in Russia, but as evangelization. That is why, as I already said, priests not only from Poland should work in this territory. On the other hand, it is obvious that Catholics in Russia are primarily representatives of national minorities. Mainly Polish, German, partly Belarusian and Ukrainian. These people want worship to be conducted in their native language.

In Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, and even in Novosibirsk, Poles do not know their native language. Only the older generation uses it, although most often they only know the prayers read daily. Not far from Tselinograd, where I was confessing to the believers, a funny incident happened to me, which speaks volumes. They immediately asked me if I could confess in Polish, German, Russian and Ukrainian. I replied that I only didn’t know Ukrainian, although I assumed that I could guess what it would be about. So, confession took place as follows: the Poles first said “Niech bedzie pochwalony!” (“Glory to Jesus Christ!”), the Germans “Gelobt”, the Ukrainians in their own way, and then everyone switched to Russian.

Therefore, I think particular that this language will be common. Actually, that’s how it already is. Of course, I assume that there will be groups that demand that the liturgy be celebrated in their national language, which is quite understandable. However, another paradox appears here. Archbishop Kondrusiewicz informed me that the Orthodox Church wants Catholic services to take place exclusively in the languages ​​of national minorities, and not in Russian.

All this requires great maturity from national minorities. For example, Moscow Poles reacted very negatively to the fact that the first mass in front of the Church of St. Peter and Paul on Markhlevsky Street was served in Russian. I think this is a wrong attitude: the majority of believers knew exclusively Russian, or at least spoke it better than Polish. Of course, I understand the disappointment of the Poles, who remember that this church has always been “Polish”, that it was built by the Poles. However, the Archbishop cannot currently create national parishes. The universal, ecumenical dimension of Catholicism should be emphasized most of all, since it is the Orthodox Church that lays claim to a universal character. She seeks to consolidate the conviction that the Catholic Church is a Polish, German, Ukrainian, French, English Church. Anything but universal.

- However, on the other hand, the Orthodox Church preserves the Church Slavonic language of worship, and any timid attempt to change this encounters the hostility of the Patriarchate. It is true that Church Slavonic is the “lingua sacra” that unites the Orthodox Church, but at the same time it creates many restrictions. Believers do not understand archaic Church Slavonic well, and, as far as I know, those who defend it do so primarily because it has been used in the Church from time immemorial, out of adherence to tradition. An Orthodox Christian, reading the Bible translated into Russian, is dealing with a text that his Church does not recognize as liturgical...

- By the way, there are also many difficulties with the translation of Catholic texts into Russian, primarily of a terminological nature. In Russian there are simply no correspondences for many things. To accomplish this task, a team of translators, specialists, who are not here yet, must emerge.

Currently, two translation trends are emerging. The first is to adopt Orthodox church terminology, the second is to simply Russify Latin. I think both solutions have their pros and cons. In Polish and any other Western language, many church terms are borrowed from Latin and even from ancient Greek. However, they have been used for many centuries, and therefore today they are no longer perceived as foreign languages.

- Don’t you think that the main goal of the Catholic Church in the territory of the former Soviet Union should be a new evangelization, and above all the “recatechesis” of the faithful? Catholics in Russia, as if following the example of the Orthodox, often believe that only some kind of emotional “investment” is enough to become a Christian. At the same time, they find it difficult to express the fundamental truths of their faith.

- Yes, this area is quite neglected. Even priests - I mean the local clergy - do little of this. Not just because they don't have time. Until recently, Soviet legislation prohibited “propaganda of religion among minors.” Naturally, there were attempts at religious teaching in defiance of the ban, but these were rather isolated cases. At the same time, it should be emphasized that various Catholic structures are now trying to catch up. The apostolic administrator takes special care of this. The most striking example of this is the creation of the College of St. Thomas Aquinas. One of the tasks of the college is to train catechists. During my travels throughout the former Soviet Union, I had the opportunity to see that some Polish language teachers, particularly in Kazakhstan, simultaneously teach the basics of the Law of God. Priests who understand the importance of catechesis, for whom thoughtful faith, so to speak, is important, already entrust catechesis to nuns and lay people. The level of training for both is modest, which is why it is so important that here, in Moscow, a center for training catechists has emerged, which has branches in other cities throughout the Russian Federation.

In addition to this basic catechetical mission, there is a need for catechesis in a broader sense of the word. I hope that the center of the Society of Jesus in Moscow plays an important role in this. Here people can meet and attend a conference dedicated to problems of faith and religion. This type of center makes it possible for Russian Catholics and Orthodox Christians to notice that Catholic theology, in contrast to Orthodox theology, has developed what we call the social teaching of the Church. That is, what they don’t have here and what they consider unnecessary. If harmonious cooperation between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches began, both Churches would have something to share: they could become familiar with Catholic social teaching, and we Catholics could learn to appreciate the prayerful side of the faith. In Orthodoxy this is very emphasized, to say the least: at times it is limited only to prayer, and not thoughtful, not meditative prayer, but only oral.

- In addition to social teaching, could any other ideological currents of Catholicism find fertile ground in Russia? I mean Christian personalism, the philosophy of values, in general the entire ideological sphere that is represented in Poland by the circle of Tygodnik Powszechny, the magazines Znak and Venz.

- Without a doubt. Although I must immediately make a reservation that we are talking about a narrow circle of perception. The centers of the Society of Jesus in Moscow and Novosibirsk are, of course, created with a focus on the university environment. Educated people are in great need of contact with Western philosophy and Western theology. We must be aware that these will be rather small groups.

There is no need to create illusions. The Catholic Church in Russia will always be a minority Church. In addition, the consciousness of people in this territory is shaped by Orthodoxy, and this also applies to Catholics. Therefore, one should not simply import Western forms of religious worship. Local Catholic communities need forms of religious expression that are consistent with the mindset and feelings of the people living there. Forms that seem to grow from the local soil.

It is clear that many forms in the Catholic Church have a universal character and should not be changed, but there are many nuances that will allow not to infringe on the pride of these people, pride, which in any case often degenerates into nationalistic narrow-mindedness and xenophobia. The republics of the former Soviet Union must inevitably go through this phase. They should enjoy their freedom and sovereignty to the fullest...

- And the peoples inhabiting them will acquire their national identity. How do you assess the situation in the Catholic Church operating in this territory from the point of view of the decisions of the Second Vatican Council? Don’t you think that since there is still a lot left to be done in this area in Poland, then here we will have to start from the very beginning? How could the local Catholic Church transform from hierarchical to the Church of all believers?

- I would formulate this a little differently. The point is to develop in people a sense of belonging to the Church, beyond just the institutional form of Catholicism. There is still a lot to be done in this area - by the way, not only in Russia. It should be noted that in the territory of the former USSR there is quite a wide differentiation if we compare the various Catholic centers operating here. Where the continuity of faith has been preserved, it is overloaded with traditional means of demonstrating religiosity, prayers such as the rosary, litany, and vespers. Everything remains the same as it was before Vatican II, and often comes down to these forms. I want to strongly emphasize that I am not criticizing, but describing the actual situation. Often the very forms that made it possible to maintain faith become a kind of burden, especially for young people.

I believe that there is no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater, crossing out traditional religious forms, as some priests from Poland do. It will be more beneficial if these forms are enriched with new ones, introducing them with a focus on the younger generation. I mean forms that are not only more attractive, but above all educational. In Irkutsk there was no burden of tradition. The priest serving there began to work with educated people who faced the problem of faith as a personal problem. This priest was able to introduce new forms of expression of faith. This is much more difficult to do in other places.

Let me give you an almost anecdotal example. In one village near Tselinograd, a priest called on believers to fast on Fridays and abstain from meat food. One of the women present, a Polish woman, reproached the priest for ignorance: she was taught that she should fast on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays. She is hers, and the priest is his. I think that’s how they parted without convincing each other, on the basis of which we can assume that for some time a certain duality will remain in Catholic religious life in this territory. This concerns mainly Polish and German communities. In some Asian parishes, German priests did not allow altars to be installed facing the parishioners [as prescribed by the liturgical reform of Vatican II. Ed.]. Sometimes this is a consequence of tradition, and sometimes it is simply traditionalism. A representative of the Lithuanian Jesuits made a special trip to Central Asia to convince one of the local parish priests that Vatican II was not heretical. This priest had distinct Lefebvre sentiments [the French Cardinal Lefebvre, now deceased, led the French traditionalist Catholics who did not recognize a number of decisions of the council. Ed.], and in this spirit he educated his parishioners. Some priests, guided by their passions, managed, for example, to convince believers that a priest who smokes tobacco is committing the most serious sin that a clergyman can commit.

- There is a lot of talk about religious revival in Russia. Is this phenomenon really as widespread and deep as the Western press makes it out to be? I myself have encountered rather an indifferent attitude towards religion, regardless of who my interlocutor called himself: Orthodox, Muslim or Jew.

- This indifference is one of the consequences of the communist era. It doesn’t seem to me that there is now any reason to define what is happening in the territory of the former Soviet Union as a religious revival. Yes, of course, people are baptized, but religious practice leaves much to be desired. This also applies to Poland. The obvious deformations in the sphere of morality are the result of the devastation caused by communism. Before the war, Poles did not steal as much as they do now. During communism, industrial theft was elevated to the level of a national virtue. The same thing, if not worse, is in Russia. Another problem that Russians tell me about is issues of sexual ethics in married life, abortion. The work ethic has deteriorated. Time must pass before people understand that to believe means to live according to the laws of faith.

"BOND"

Printed with abbreviations

The conversation was conducted by Mariusz Selski
Magazine "New Poland", # 4, 2001