Elections in Chechnya - troubles and hopes

The program is conducted by Vladimir Baburin. The correspondent of Radio Freedom Vladimir Dolin, the host of the program of the Caucasian Chronicle, Oleg Kusov and the Chechen journalist Rustam Kaliev, who visited Chechnya, participate in Chechnya.

Vladimir Baburin: The preliminary results of the president of Chechnya were summed up. Everything was also clear the day before, the current head of the administration Ahmad Kadyrov won a convincing victory. Russian mass media approximately equally illuminated the elections in Chechnya, there was a very similar picture on all television channels. The result is about 80 percent, maybe even a little more voted for Ahmad Kadyrov, I really reminded Soviet times, and in this regard the position of Western media, and publications in Western newspapers that write about Chechen elections are very different. Now next to me in the Moscow Studio Radio Liberty, the Chechen journalist Rustam Kaliev, he just, just a few hours ago, returned from Chechnya, where he watched the election progress, and the editor of the Caucasian Chronicle program Oleg Kusov. The first question is for you, Rustam. A quote from the influential German newspaper "Die Welt:" Today, after the owner of the Kremlin Vladimir Putin promised his colleagues in the West a political decision of the Chechen issue, the president is elected here. Akhmad Kadyrov is a Kremlin governor in Chechnya, a clear favorite in these elections, which are not de facto. All the chances of the candidates who opposed Kadyrov were either removed in advance by the election commission, or declared self -setting after a conversation with the Kremlin officials. As a result, one Kadyrov remained, a man with a bull neck, having addiction to costumes in thin stripes. The democratic way of thinking is alien to him. They say that without him in Chechnya, not a single dirty business is costly. His son Ramzan resembles a Saddamov offspring of the redness. "Rustam, the assessment is tough, how correct is it?

Rustam Kaliev: You know, in part, maybe she, of course, is emotional, but, in general, she reflects, judging by the statements of the local population, the opinions of people, at least a sufficiently serious part of them. Talking about the actions of, say, the son of Ahmad Haji or Kadyrov himself in Chechnya, as you know, is not particularly accepted, especially on a camera or any other recording device. Nevertheless, a variety of stories about, so to speak, night visits in different regions of the republic of certain unidentified people who are often attributed to the son, the head of the guard Ahmad Haji, due to the visit of which people disappear without a trace. It is possible that the data represented by the respected newspaper, at least, reflect the opinion of most of the inhabitants of Chechnya, who, as you know, voted for the most part for Ahmad Haji.

Vladimir Baburin: Oleg Kusov, you will have to go out tomorrow with the next release of your Caucasian Chronicle program, naturally, you will not be able to bypass the topic of Chechen elections, which you will give an assessment?

Oleg Kusov: Of course, the results are very surprised, since I have been interested in the opinion of the Chechen residents for the Person of Akhmad Kadyrov for many months, and a very large discrepancy is a great dislike for this policy and such high interest for it. Of course, the Russian election situation, in principle, it is the same in about many regions of Russia, and what was happening in Chechnya is not a discovery for the whole country, because we observe great disobedience between the rating of real and the results of formal voting in many other regions of the country, and in the Caucasus, in neighboring republics, in Dagestan, in Ingushetia there was about the same picture. So what happened in Chechnya does not surprise me personally. I am surprised by another. How the Kremlin will try to pursue its policy through the extremely unpopular leader, who showed that he could not collect a standing team around him, who could somehow level his negative qualities. This is very surprising to me very much. Given the fact that Akhmad Kadyrov is only in the majority armed people, that his supporters mainly go with weapons in Chechnya, the power policy, in my opinion, can only significantly aggravate the situation in this republic, and therefore the elections lead to the intra -chain confrontation, in my opinion.

Vladimir Baburin: Rustam, in continuation of what Oleg Kusov spoke of. I am returning to Western publications again, the Daily Telegraph, the English newspaper, with reference to the conversation of his journalists with the FSB officers, writes that certainly after Akhmad Kadyrov enters into power, a new civil war will begin in Chechnya, but not between federal troops and Chechen separatists, but between the Chechens themselves. One of the FSB officers told the journalist that according to our information, as soon as the elections end, a fierce war will begin between the people of Saydullaev and Kadyrov. Some other Western newspapers wrote that people who were removed from the elections in Chechnya - they are behind them a fairly large number of supporters, and make the same disappointing conclusion - an armed confrontation will begin between them. How much is this, in general, unpleasant, even terrible forecast?

Rustam Kaliev: If we talk about the Civil War - in Chechnya, not the first year has been going on of the civil, internal civil war, using the most radical and perverted methods. The fact is that in Chechnya since 2001, we have been observing the implementation of the transformed form of Wendetta, that is, to the reprisal of their imaginary or real enemies, the Chechens have begun to resort to the services of the same federal divisions, which were often unimportant, as you know, there are a lot of different armed groups that did not have centralized command. Such methods existed, and all this smoothly flowed by the beginning of 2003, and maybe a little earlier, to the civil war. She goes in Chechnya, and today it can be stated that in Chechnya almost the initiative belongs not to the federal military, in this sense, including. That is, Russian military federal, they, in general, are now busy with ensuring their own security. In most cases, "stripping" and other events are carried out by the divisions of Chechen power structures, and the form of Wendetta itself - it already has a political character. And this is very scary. Is it possible to say that with the advent of Kadyrov, or rather, with his statement, the election of the president of the republic, this situation will worsen - it seems to me that it simply cannot aggravate further. The Chechen divisions have no aviation and heavy equipment that could help them conduct some field battles, but this is not necessary in Chechen conditions. There is a civil war, there people die at each other. That is, Wendetta, the traditional form of blood revenge, which, in general, determined the rule of law in Chechnya, first of all, there were institutes of reconciliation, and so on, now all this has been transformed into a rough form of the murder of some Chechens by others. And the worst thing is that all this has a political connotation.

Vladimir Baburin: On the eve of the elections, a few days before them, our correspondent Vladimir Dolin visited Chechnya. His stories, his notes partly confirm what Rustam spoke of.

Vladimir Dolin: As on the eve of the referendum, the main argument of Akhmad Kadyrov was the restoration of order and legality in the republic. The 39-year-old Musa and Rosa Zaurbekov believed and returned after the referendum from Zapolyarny Norilsk, where they fled from the war back in 1999.

Rosa Zaurbekova: They worked, lived, he wanted to come. And my grandmother always said on the phone so that she would not come until everything was fine here. We arrived, thought, since the referendum has passed, it passed, everything will be fine. But we did not expect that it would be so, it turned out even worse.

Vladimir Dolin: People in camouflage came to Zaurbekov’s house on the night of May 5 to 6. Musa was ruthlessly beaten and taken away. Since then, Rosa Zaurbekova knows nothing about her husband.

Rosa Zaurbekova: It’s just amazing to me why no one knows where they take, how to take it, well, it cannot be like that. We turned to Khamidov, turned to Kadyrov, we did not reach Kadyrov himself, we do not have such an access, and to the prosecutor, and the investigator, and the military prosecutor

Vladimir Dolin: We go to the house. Rose shows where and how her husband was beaten. On the bed covered with a blanket lies an old woman. She reacted completely indifferent to my appearance. This is the mother of Musa Zaurbekov, according to Rosa, after the arrest of her only son, she was almost deaf and blinded. And indeed, the woman’s watery eyes are laid down at one point. Suddenly the old woman spoke:

Musa Musa Zaurbekov: I have one son, four children ... I see something on the street at night. I think this is my son, they threw the dead, so I think, I don’t know what to do. Everywhere they sent a letter to Moscow, several times from there they said, look for, make, forced to look, no one is looking for it. If he were guilty, let him punish, tell me where he is, and no one says anything.

Vladimir Dolin: 50-year-old Ahmed Taipov disappeared from his own home more than a year ago. During the search, unknown people in camouflage did not bent to get out 500 rubles from the wallet of his wife Leila, the only money that ended up in the house. The next morning, the family rushed to look for a father and husband.

Leila Taipova: All neighbors gathered. All relatives. We all went to the administration. They stood there for almost a week, the commandant had, the statements were submitted everywhere. I received answers in writing, from the prosecutor’s office, from Aslakhanov, I received answers in writing to the statements that we are looking for that we cannot find, "if something is clear, we will notify you."

Vladimir Dolin: Neither the federal authorities nor the locals can explain to Leyle who Ahmed Taipov is arrested and for what.

Leila Taipova: I do not believe in power. There are no authorities in Russia now, and there are no here. If power was ...

Vladimir Dolin: 23-year-old Magomed Iskhanov was taken in his own house in the summer of 2002. His mother Asya Ismailova does not believe that her son violated the law:

Asya Ismailova: If there was some kind of fault, if he had been involved in something, it would not be so offensive. The boy in the fourth year of the institute studied. Absolutely not involved in anything, in any hostilities, absolutely ...

Vladimir Dolin: does not believe in the guilt of Magomed Iskhanov and the prosecutor's office, who initiated a criminal case on the fact of abduction of the student. There are still no results of the investigation ... Ruslan, he did not want to call his last name, does not believe that Akhmad Kadyrov is able to restore order:

Ruslan: They make roofs over to the oil industry, there is the one who cooks oil, who drags condensate there, they make the roof. Kadyrov is where the money goes, that's all, I didn’t see anymore, I didn’t hear that they could not do anything. What they can do if, say, there used to be a Doltenskaya order. This order is to this day violated. And what can Kadyrov or his team?

Vladimir Dolin: Those people whose relatives are gone, no longer believe in anything, and they were unlikely to be among those who voted on Sunday for Akhmad Kadyrov.

Vladimir Baburin: I have another question for Rustam Kaliev, a Chechen journalist, now, the interlocutors of Vladimir Dolini are unlikely to come to polling stations. You were on Sunday in Chechnya, who came to vote, what kind of people they were, and why did they still come to the polls?

Rustam Kaliev: Elections in Chechnya, despite all of the above, they, from a technical point of view, must be agreed with this, passed as a whole in accordance with the law. Despite different grades, you have to and have to agree with this. There were observers there, or not, regardless of this, and the observers were different. Another question is who came. And mainly those who come to all the elections came. This is such a category of people, the segment of the population, exists in all regions of Russia, and Chechnya in this case is no exception. Adults came, the elderly, people came who still hope for something. Of course, those who have disappeared who suffered from all this, who have completely lost all confidence, are not that to the Chechen administration, or federal, but lost hope in people, or some prospects, these people did not go anywhere, they sat on their homes and quietly criticized all this procedure. Basically, of course, to explain why such a contrast, such a high anti-rating of Ahmad Haji in Chechnya, and at the same time, such a percentage of voting? You know, everything is very simple. He really did not have a single competitor in the list, it is even impossible to compare. Ahmad Haji himself was there. And, of course, Kadyrov has his own electorate, he came in full force, and people who either want to believe or trust the current administration, they came, they came in full force, and they voted. There was another category of people who voted against everyone. It is not clear that the percentage of those who voted against everyone turned out to be so insignificant. Because in polling stations, at least, I, communicating with people who left the urns, I met quite a lot of these people. It was youth, mainly. They came to the show to vote against everyone, and really left, like from the holiday.