Where do the ideas of uniting three Ural regions come from?

The program is maintained by Andrei Sharogradsky. The Radio Liberty correspondent Evgeny Nazareta, who is talking with political scientist Vadim Dubichev, takes part.

Andrei Sharogradsky: In the city of Kataysk, the Kurgan region, an initiative group of citizens was created who advocate the accession of the Kataysky district to the Sverdlovsk region. The idea of uniting the Sverdlovsk, Chelyabinsk and Kurgan regions has repeatedly sounded from the lips of the Sverdlovsk governor Edward Rossel. Evgenia Nazareta talked with political scientist Vadim Dubicheva on this subject in Yekaterinburg:

Evgenia Nazarets: This wave was not raised by the Katai workers, but the Sverdlovsk governor Eduard Rossel and much earlier. Do you agree with this?

Vadim Dubichev: No. I know that the history of neighboring areas with the Sverdlovsk region, those areas that are part of the Kurgan region, but are adjacent to the Kamensk-Uralsky district, the topic has long been discussed there that people want to join the Sverdlovsk region. This is due to the fact that mainly the population of small villages, cities like Kataysk, they mainly go to the cities of the Sverdlovsk region, there the media, mainly accept television and Radio Sverdlovsk, is by no means Kurgan. People have long been saying that it would be more convenient for them in connection with work, to join the Sverdlovsk region with public life. Moreover, in the Sverdlovsk region, the standard of living is higher, there are also material, economic prerequisites. That is, there are completely two different processes, the one that occurs in the part of the Kurgan region, and that big conversation about the enlargement of the constituent entities of the Federation, in which the Governor Rossel also participates.

Evgenia Nazareta: Let me remind you of the chronology of events of the end of last year. The first meeting of the school of public policy in Yekaterinburg. The first lecture, it is conducted by Eduard Rossel, the governor of the Sverdlovsk region. Then the year 2003, in December, a press conference for journalists of several media. In both cases, Rossel refers to the feasibility of uniting the Sverdlovsk, Kurgan and Chelyabinsk regions. It is very similar to pushing the idea, to say easier, to dripping on the brains. To whom?

Vadim Dubichev: Not Rossel began this topic, he supported it and, it seems to me, to a certain extent voiced the Kremlin’s plans to enlarge the subjects of the Federation. This topic was very widely discussed, I remind you, when the federal managerial districts were introduced. Now more experts talk more about certain economic prerequisites for enlargement of the constituent entities of the Federation, it is evidenced that such large economic structures as, for example, a railway, energy systems, military districts, because they are all structured in rather large territories, larger than regions and the Republic of the Russian Federation. But, it seems to me that the topic of economic benefits when combining is pedaling here. Of course, to a certain extent, not the whole truth is called. Because I have a deep conviction that behind all the conversations about the enlargement of the constituent entities of the Federation, which, once again I emphasize, go from Moscow mainly, lies political need. It seems to me that this is due to the fact that Russia is going to strengthen the Presidential Republic, to the unitary state, and in these conditions it is impossible to manage 89 entities from Moscow in principle. I am sure that Moscow will bring Russia to 15 constituent entities of the Federation, and this process will begin to the fullest after the presidential election.

Evgenia Nazareta: By the way, I have one quote from President Putin, it is repeated unchanged through others, there is some kind of confidence in its reliability. Putin says: "The federal center supports only justified projects for enlargement of the regions. It is obvious that a number of regions of the country are economically insolvent, it is difficult to exist, and in the foreseeable future they will hardly become wealthy." But in each case, when I looked at these processes in different regions, I read about it, this phrase is interpreted differently. Some say: the center recommends uniting, the center encourages this. In another case, those who benefit this say: no, there is a question that there is no need to rush, everything should be justified. The governors of the Kurgan and Chelyabinsk regions were quite very nervous about the initiative of Edward Rossel.

Vadim Dubichev: It is clear that economic, economic elites, enterprise managers, of course, are interested in enlargement of the subjects, because it will be easier for them to work. And, of course, opponents of this process of enlargement of the constituent entities of the Federation are immediately clear - these are political elites and administrative elites that simply remain in the work in those regions that will not lead in these processes. Rossel, of course, is easy to persuade in the process of enlargement, because he is a leader within the Great Urals. And, indeed, if the enlargement of several entities occurs, the elections will be announced, he wins the elections, because neither Sumin nor the Bogomolov from the current governors will compete with him. It is clear that Sumin and Bogomolov understand this perfectly, and they do not like this situation, as well as other administrative structures, who are afraid to just stay out of work. I repeat once again: economic, economic elites - they are "for". Take the Kozitsyn empire, for example, which is seriously represented in the Sverdlovsk region. The OGMK enterprise is located in the Orenburg, and in the Kurgan, and in the Chelyabinsk regions, it is more interesting for it, of course, a larger subject.

Evgenia Nazarets: The topic of enlargement of the regions in the Sverdlovsk region would be discussed somewhat differently, if it were not for the history of a ten-year ago with the institution of the Urals Republic. The author of the idea was today's governor Eduard Rossel, and then he was also the head of the region. Today he is actively discussing the idea of uniting three Ural regions. What do you feel about it?

Vadim Dubichev: The reasons that caused a tendency to create republics in the Russian Federation in the early 90s and the process of enlargement of the constituent entities of the Federation now, at the beginning of the new millennium, are fundamentally different processes caused by different political, economic and social situations, to mix them incorrectly. In the early 90s, the Russian state was actually paralyzed, the management system collapsed. It was a natural process in the transition of one state and political system to another. The regional elites then worked as a guarantor of stability, they were able to quickly organize, create their regional legislation. The Ural Republic is one of the attempts of such an organization of power, an unsuccessful attempt. The beginning of the 2000s is a tendency to build a strong presidential republic and a unitary state, it is a process of departure from a federal structure.

Evgenia Nazareta: A return to the idea of a ten -year ago may be due to the fact that then in a referendum about 80% of the Sverdlovsk residents advocated the organization of the republic. Just in the heads of people, two processes were connected.

Vadim Dubichev: Firstly, because the leader of both the process and this, of the other essentially, acts in the Middle Urals Rossel. Therefore, the unification of these ideas, different trends occurs.

Evgenia Nazarets: It is obvious that Rossel is the governor who is interested in the unification. A little earlier you said that those who lose power are not interested in this, but interested - those who will manage. In this regard, part of political analysts believes that the unification of three regions will allow Rossel to remain in power for some time. But they also say that this, on the contrary, will lead to his premature resignation. Who, in your opinion, has more reasons?

Vadim Dubichev: We must look at the facts. Rossel has no problems with the ability to move to the governors of the Sverdlovsk region for the next period. Nobody can speak for longer terms in the Russian Federation except the Lord God. Rossel, when he talks about the enlargement of the subjects of the Federation, specifically our Ural regions, I repeat, in many respects broadcasts those thoughts that now roam in Moscow heads and, above all, surrounded by Putin. This trend, which is now being rolled up, including the mouth of one of the most authoritative chapters of the constituent entities of the Federation - Edward Rossel. And after the presidential election, if you want, we can once again meet in this studio, we can return to this conversation, and you will see that you will have many additional facts from Moscow, which will confirm the tendency to create new subjects of the Federation.

Evgenia Nazarets: According to your forecasts, if the process of uniting three regions in the Urals will go, then how much time will it take?

Vadim Dubichev: This will depend on the political will primarily Putin himself, who, I have no doubt, will be re -elected by the president. It is dangerous to tighten this kind of processes, they need to be done a spore and effectively, then this will give the necessary effect. Given the need for great legislative work - a year or two.

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  Andrey Sharogradsky

  International Radio Offer Freedom. Author and host of the information and analytical digest, podcast "Time of Freedom"