Interview with Ramzan Kadyrov. The text of 2004

Interview with the youngest son of the late president of the Chechen Republic Akhmat-Haji Kadyrov, thus 27-year-old Ramzan, who, for a long time in the post of head of the security service of his father, allowed his tragic death as a result of the attack, after which he was not only unclenched for the service of service, but immediately received a great increase-the post of the first deputy prime minister of the Government of the Chechen Republic for the Sila; And now, having the title of police captain, he commands colonels and generals.

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Special issue of the podcast "What is new?" Anna Politkovskaya’s report on the first meeting with Kadyrov is read by actress Julia Aug

The interview with Ramzan was difficult. It turned out that it was almost impossible to do this in Grozny-Ramzan constantly sits in the Gudermes district, in the village of Centora (another name-Hosi-Yurt), and now the Chechen capital was actually transferred there. In the sense that it is here - the current center of power and decision -making by government and presidential structures, and not in Grozny. Not Ramzan, for example, goes to Abramov (Sergey Borisovich, acting President of the Chechen Republic), and Abramov (like many other officials) - to Ramzan. Here, in the Center, the candidate for the post of President of the Chechen Republic - the so -called nomination from the Kadyrov team, took place. As you know, ALU Alkhanov, the Minister of the Republican Ministry of Internal Affairs, became the chosen one, and he was publicly proclaimed precisely in the Center, not even counting that he himself was not there, moreover, he was in the morning on the day of the alkhanov’s alkhanov day.

So those who want to see the son of Kadyrov should go an hour and a half from Grozny by car, pass the Argun, Gudermes, Novogrozny, Bachi-Yurt and burns in the Sito Safety-a series of gearboxes (one after another), protecting the approaches to the first deputy prime minister, which, we must assume, is very afraid of Chechens, if he was unfortunately unfortunate from them. As a result, today, this informal and political and economic capital of Chechnya is a real fortress, not at all cozy, not beautiful, with crowds of armed people on narrow, winding dusty streets and giant monsters, several of which are the houses of the Kadyrov.

In anticipation of an interview with the correspondent, Novaya Gazeta was taken to the “guest house”, so others said. So six or seven hours passed, the prospects for the future were unclear, the evening came when in Chechnya everyone needs to hide in minks, and no one could say anything about Ramzan.

“So where is Ramzan?” - asked.

- Now, now ...

And time again flowed into nowhere.

The waiting watch is not known what the person, Vakha Visaev, was brightened up for supervision. He turned out to be the head of the Yugaulproduct LLC, or simply - the director of the new Gudermes oil refinery. Vakha is also a candidate for the president of the Czech Republic. And also from the “Kadyrov’s team” (as Ramzan later tells, he will personally vote precisely for Vakhu - however, it is not worth it to take such confession seriously, this evening Ramzan admits in many ways that contradicts each other, and that he would vote for Alkhanov).

In the meantime, Vakha proposed a tour of the guest house, and he turned out to be a perfectly decorated manor. With a fountain in the yard. With Bamboo Hong Kong Furniture on an open terrace with columns, as is done in Cyprus. With marble gray-green fireplace opposite the central entrance. With paired, jacuzzi, pool. And with the main attraction-two huge bedrooms, crowned with studies, one in blue, the other in pink.

But with a massive, pressing furniture of a dark tree, with which for some reason they forgot to remove the price tags, and all these thousands of "w.E." climb into the eyes -But, apparently, in the Center-2004 it is so fashionable.

The tour also included an inspection of a small and very dark office. He adjacent to one of the bedrooms, and his main decoration is already-the wall carpet of Dagestan work with the socialist-realistic portrait of Akhmat-Haji Kadyrov times when he still walked in a papaha, on a black background.

***

When it became dark, Ramzan appeared. The darkness of the armed people came with him, they were everywhere - in the courtyard of the estate, on the terrace, in the rooms. Some subsequently intervened in the conversation and commented on him, including in very stringent and aggressive tones. Ramzan fell apart in a chair, lifted his leg high in his toe, almost to the level of my face, which he, of course, did not even notice - and the interview began.

- Tell me, why now your people are credited to the state of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, they create another special regiment from them, if Chechnya is already stuffed with different detachments and it would be better to start a return to peaceful life?

- It is necessary. We want to restore order not only in Chechnya, but throughout the North Caucasus. They are credited to the Ministry of Internal Affairs so that we can be sent to Stavropol or Leningrad at any time ... We will fight everywhere in Russia. I have a directive - to work throughout the North Caucasus. By bandits.

- And who do you call bandits?

- Maskhadova, Basayev and the like.

- That is, the task of your people is to find Maskhadov and Basayev?

- Yes. The main thing is to destroy them.

- Everything that happens under your name, so far only fits into such words as “destroy”, “eliminate”. But maybe enough to fight?

- Of course, enough. 700 people have already surrendered under us, a normal life live. We ask the rest to stop meaningless resistance. But they are fighting - therefore, they need to be destroyed. The day before yesterday (the interview took place on June 10. - A.P. ) sent five people to the prosecutor’s office, today they took three. Two destroyed. One is a large emir. Nashiho. From the group of Doku Umarov. There he is a great authority. So we destroyed him. In Ingushetia. They all rest there.

-And what right do you have the right to destroy anyone in Ingushetia, as a security service of the President of Chechnya?

- Legal law. We are part of the OUR, operational management of the FSB in the North Caucasus. We held this event together with the Ingush FSB. We have all the official permits.

- Now in the territory of Chechnya, in addition to your detachment, there are detachments of Kokiev, Yamadayev, etc.

- You should not name detachments by last name. My guys are listed everywhere - in the FSB, some in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, in reconnaissance.

- I see, but not a lot of detachments?

- Yes, what units! Chechen riot police - 300 people. In other regions, riot police are 700-800. Kokievsky time ends - they are military, they will be withdrawn.

- In March, Khambiev gave you (Minister of Defense of Ichkeria. - A.P.) What is he doing now? Does the squad also create?

“Do you want to bring him? .. He is as a negotiator with our bandits.” They know him. He used to get this work - with Turlaev, for example. Do you want him to bring him too now? (Shaa Turlaev - the head of the personal guard of Maskhadov, also surrendered, being in a serious physical condition, and his leg was amputated. - A.P. ). Khambiev will not have his own group. We will only have a group.

- You did not hurt that in the media, Khambiev admitted that he was a traitor?

- This is a lie. They just write like that - but he is not a traitor.

- How do you personally imagine Maskhadov’s change: Maskhadov comes to you and says: “I came”?

- Yes.

“But he can't do this?” Do you have too much age difference?

- Maybe. Where he will go. If it does not come, let's give it. He must sit in a cage.

- Recently, you announced an end to amnesty and an ultimatum who was unhappy. Is this Maskhadov?

-No, this is for 17-18-year-old guys who do not know anything-they are deceived by Maskhadov, go to the forest now, their mothers cry, ask: help, Ramzan, return their sons, curse Maskhadova. So this is an ultimatum to women to look well after their children. I tell women to find their children as soon as possible and then do not blame us ...

- You announced that those who do not give up are subject to destruction.

- Certainly. What a conversation can be.

“But maybe it's time to stop destroying - and you have to sit down at the table?”

- With whom?

- With all the Chechens who are fighting.

- With Maskhadov? Maskhadov - no one there. Nobody listens to him. The first figure is Basayev. He is a strong warrior. Maybe fight. Good strategist. And a good Chechen. And Maskhadov - an old man, poor fellow, nothing can. In his last year-2003-was a women's battalion that guarded him. (Laughs excitedly. All those present immediately begin to laugh. - A.P. ) All - women. Only two guys were with him. I can prove all this. I am writing everything. I know these women. They told me: “If we refused, we would be destroyed. We were without work, and he gave money. ”

- And now Maskhadov has a female battalion?

- No. We broke Maskhadov. He has other people now.

- In your words, disrespect for Maskhadov and clear respect for Basayev?

- As a warrior I respect Basayev, he is not a coward. I ask Allah to meet Basayev in an open battle. One dreams of becoming president, another pilot, tractor driver.

And my dream: in an open field to fight against Basayev. My group is against his people - and so that no one else. And so he commands. And I commanded.

- And if Basaev wins?

- No. One hundred percent - me. In battle, I always win.

- In Chechnya, many talk about your conflict with the Yamadayevs. (Hudermmes brothers Yamadaevs: Khalid - now the State Duma deputy from United Russia, Sulim is the deputy military commandant of the Chechen Republic, have a strong detachment, it is believed that Ramzan works under the patronage of the FSB, and the Yamadayevs, and now, in the peak of the candidacy, as they say, “from the Kremlin”, half -resource of the graffiti: “Yamadayeva is“ Yamadaeva - Our president. "

- Not true. It is impossible to be with me in the conflict - that person is not to do.

- How do you evaluate yourself? What is the strong side of your character?

- How is it? I don't understand the question.

- Why are you strong? And what are the weak?

- I do not consider myself weak. I am strong.

- The fact that ALU Alkhanov was declared a presidential candidate from you - on Kadyrov’s team, how much did this depend on your desire?

- I'm only a team member.

- Who made this decision?

- All. Thought for a long time: who can? They chose Alkhanov because I consider him strong. And I trust him absolutely. What do you think, the Kremlin chooses? The people choose. This is the first time I hear that the Kremlin decides something.

- Strange, but I heard ...

(There will be very little time - an hour, no more, and Ramzan will say the exact opposite: that only the Kremlin decides everything, that the people are cattle and that he personally was offered to “become president” immediately in the Kremlin, but he, Ramzan, refused because he “wants to fight”. - A.P.))

- If you left us alone, we, Chechens, were one long ago.

- Who is “you”?

- Journalists are like you. Politicians Russians. You do not let us restore order.

You disconnect us. You got up between the Chechens. You are the enemy. You are worse than Basayev.

- Who else are your enemies?

- And I have no enemies. There are bandits.

- However, Malik Saydullaev is your explicit political competitor ...

- Saydullaev - a handkerchief, and that’s it. He is yours. And you draw under his tune. I will prove that you are lying.

- And who is a handkerchief?

- Torchka, and that's it. I can’t explain. Three or four months ago I had a conversation with him, and he himself confirmed that it was not a competitor to me. He said what a unique person Kadyrov and that the like is not the same in Russia, in the world. I have it recorded on the recorder. I was even afraid that he would not advance now - I want everyone to see how they would not be elected.

- Are you going to be the president of the Czech Republic yourself?

- No.

- And what activities do you like best?

- Fight. I am a warrior.

“Did you kill someone yourself?”

- No. I always commanded.

“But you are still too young to always command.” Someone commands you ...

- Only Kadyrov. No one commanded me. And he will not command.

- Did you give orders to kill?

- gave.

- Not scary?

- It's not me - this is Allah. The Prophet said: Wahhabis must be destroyed.

- So he said? .. And when will the Wahhabis will not, with whom will you fight?

- I will engage in bees. I still have bees. And bulls. And the dogs are fighting.

“Do you feel sorry for the dogs kill each other?”

- Not sorry. I like it. I respect my dog ​​Tarzan as a person. The Caucasian shepherd is the most just dog.

- What other hobbies? Dogs, bees, fight ... and? ..

- And - walk. I love women.

- And your wife does not mind?

- I am secretly.

- What are your shoulder straps now?

- The captain of the police.

- How long have you received them?

- A month ago.

- How long did you stay with a senior lieutenant?

- They didn’t give me a long time. Year and a half. Everyone went for me to give the captain.

- Are these epaulets important to you?

- Of course, I am a warrior and policeman.

- So a warrior or policeman?

- This is one and the same.

- What is your education?

- Higher legal. I finish. I pass the exams.

- Which?

- How is it - what? Exams, and that's it.

- And what is the name of the institute that you graduate?

- Branch of the Moscow Institute of Business. In Gudermes. Legal that is.

- What is your specialization?

- I am a lawyer.

- And what right is the diploma? Criminal? Civilian?

- Forgot. I wrote the topic, but forgot. There are many events now.

- Why did you run, as an abnormal, along the football field after the victory of the Terek?

- I did not remember anything with joy. I swear. Then they told me and showed on TV that I ran across the field. Kadyrov set the task: you need to pick up the cup.

- Why?

- Don't know. But his word is a law for me.

Further to Ramzan, Shaa Tourlaev, the chief of the Maskhadovsky guard, Major of the Presidential Guard, the Cavalier of the Chechen orders “Hero of the nation” and “Hero of the nation”, a gray-haired 32-year-old man with an amputated left leg-he is in the Center under guard, was brought to Ramzan. Later, Magomed Khambiev appeared. Magomed said himself-Shaa seemed to be banned from talking with a journalist in Russian. Ramzan announced that he could not. (People who knew Shaa confirmed that he used to own the Russians perfectly.) Khambiev had a arrogant and pleased look. Shaa has a dedicated, but worthy. Khambiev constantly assented Ramzan. Shaa preferred proudly to be silent. In translation, his words were heard as follows: “He fought since 1991. Until 2003 he was in the protection of Maskhadov. Maskhadova has not seen a year and a half. I have been walking with a wound for two years. There was a doctor, an operating room. I could not go out. But I wanted to go out to the wound, because Ramzan and I used to fought together. When Ramzan personally sent people, the villagers said: go beyond Ramzan, his path is correct. Maskhadov is a weak person. His strength is not visible. One remained. Around - 20-30 people. "

“Is this a female battalion?”

Silent. He lowered his head and shakes it, but unclear - “yes” or “no”. The general conversation is Smoburen and does not glue. Soon after Shaa, a middle -aged man appears in a skullcap, sits on the right hand from Ramzan and seems to be Nikolai Ivanovich. All at the same time grinning - it means that he is not Nikolai Ivanovich. Ramzan says he translated Shaa. It becomes quite quickly clear that when Shaa says three words - “Nikolai Ivanovich” translates several sentences, as Shaa realized Maskhadov’s addiction. I am indignant - and “Nikolai Ivanovich” as a chain breaks down, goes on the attack, insults. No one stops him. Ramzan laughs, pleased - and begins to frankly beat us, and soon it becomes clear that in this, to him, a lover of dog fighting, there are no equal at the table.

The conversation acquires an ever higher emotional degree - “You ask for the bandits”, “You are the enemy of the Chechen people”, “You must answer for it.”

Ramzan is already yelling, jumping on a chair - and already “Nikolai Ivanovich” is being disguised. I recall, I recall, it takes place at a large oval table and is increasingly reminiscent of a gangster gathering from the film "The meeting place cannot be changed."

However, the status of Shaa remains incomprehensible in all this shabash. Who is he - the captive of Ramzan? Or is it still voluntarily held in the center? And Ramzan behaves strangely - it seems like the eldest in the house, although here he is the youngest. Constantly laughs out of place. Causes. Bends. Dance. He supports ridiculous remarks.

The translated Shaa continues.

- Is it possible to unite with Maskhadov?

- Yes, I would like that. Russian politicians bother us. If they leave us ...

- What politicians interfere?

- who talk more, they interfere.

- Putin?

- No, he is our man.

- When did you abandon the idea of ​​independence for Chechnya?

- When I was convinced that the words of Basayev and Maskhadov are not true.

Ramzan is clearly not on the wool that Shaa received so many questions. He wedges. It's time to finish. I ask the last question - and he became the only one that Shaa answered himself.

- When were you happy? When was the happiest time in your life?

- This was not.

Ramzan interrupts:

- Do you know, Khambiev voted for Putin?

Khambiev was shaving his head in agreement:

- Yes. He does not drink like the one. He is hard. In Chechnya wants order.

- And what is missing in Chechnya for full order?

- A little. Yandarbiev has already been removed. If Zakayev, Berezovsky and Udugov will be removed, then there will be order. They are customers. Basayev is the performer of their will. Basaev is not fighting for the Chechen people.

- And for what do you live for?

- For the sake of yourself. For the sake of the people.

- In what quality will you serve him?

- How Ramzan will decide.

- Why should Ramzan decide?

- He is the first person among the Chechens. Ramzan promises me to make me president of the freestyle wrestling Federation.

- How old are you?

- It will be 42.

- How do you feel about taking your relatives to give up?

- Fine. The nephews were guilty, so they took it.

- What are their fault?

“They wore me from Maskhadov, bread.”

-In an interview with the magazine "Kommersant-Vlast" you called yourself a traitor.

- I do not confirm. I didn't say that. I am the son of my people.

Ramzan, satisfied, brazenly laughs. Flies back - happy. It’s going to watch myself on TV - and I am very pleased with this. Comments Putin’s gait: “Handsome!”. Putin, it seems to him, walks like a highlander. And outside the windows-night ... We must get out, and passions are all heated ... Finally, Ramzan disposes to be taken to Grozny. Musa, a former militant from an end-yurt, and two guards sits behind the wheel.

I cry, of course. And this is a weakness ... of course. But at night I managed to get into Grozny - and this is happiness.

The morning of the next day begins in Grozny with the call of Taus Dzhabrailov, chairman of the State Council of the Chechen Republic. He asks to go to the Center - “The field commander surrendered there, wants to give an interview. Please. This is ten minutes. "

And again - the network of the Central KPP, the “guest house”, the crowds of the armed, tons of visible weapons, Ramzan sits by the fireplace: “You will not have any field commander! What I wanted! ” Today it is extremely aggressive, cocked, frantic, at times it just squeals. Behind him is a tall guy in a baseball cap and a black jacket. He is all the time:

“You had to be shot back in Moscow, on the street, as they shot in Moscow ... You had to shoot ...”.

Ramzan echoes: “You are an enemy ... to shoot ... you are an enemy ... Do you know this person?”

On the couch, indeed, a person with a familiar face. This is Ibrahim Garcieev from the village of Tangi-Chu, the one who served in the protection of Rustam Saydullaev, brother Malik Saydullaev a year ago, at the time when Malik ran for the presidency and was the main competitor of the deceased Kadyrov. We met with Garciev then, and he willingly demonstrated beatings to all the journalists, told how Ramzan personally tortured him in the central, demanding to carry an explosive device into the Sydullaev house and blow up Malik. Moreover, then Garsiev wrote a statement addressed to the prosecutor general of the Russian Federation with a demand to institute criminal proceedings against Ramzan.

Now, on June 11, 2004, in the Central Center, Garciev is ready to write the opposite statement (as happened) in the GP that Ramzan never tortured him, that he himself came to him two or three months ago and told everything: he could not write, he could not at all, and then, he slipped Rustam Sydullaev, ordered him to sign, and the battles were the result of a drunken arrival on another car. A man in camouflage sits in a chair, he turns out to be lieutenant Ramzan Dzamalkhanov, acting The head of the Urus-Martan District Department of Internal Affairs, who immediately confirms a drunken collision with injuries. Two Ramzan - Kadyrov and Jamalkhanov - say that they are old friends, and explain how they could happen that Garcieev signed a statement in the GP. It turns out that this is “Friendship in Chechen”-when a friend gives you some kind of paper and you wave it without looking. Until now, there has been no need to hear about such friendship, but Jamalkhanov swears: if Ramzan asks him to sign something now, he "will be West to see what he is signing." Under the dictation of Garciev, they write a new statement to the GP, refuting the previous one ... Garciev turns out to be a fighter of some special detachment “Vostok” based on Hankal-pear, probably, they usually collect such people here.

“Will you write a refutation that I'm not a bandit?!” Will you be? - Kadyrov yells, clearly playing on the camera. She works constantly and turns out to be the “press service of the Boxing Federation of the Chechen Republic”. - I will prove to you. You are the enemy. I'll make you. You are worse than Basayev. You got up between the Chechens. And the Russian generals got up ... If not for you, we would have agreed for a long time.

The shabash lasted several hours. Ramzan was dancing, then yelling, then climbed to shake his hand, then left to talk with Abramov’s guest house, he returned and screamed again: “I am not a bandit. I'll make you. I will not let go. "

Finally, there was no patience, I got up and went forward, I was not. Of course, tears did not just strangle - they have already strangled. Of course, I was waiting for the line in the back.

The laughing armed crowd rumbled after - they also went. Ramzan hung on the neck of the unfortunate Garciev and yelled: “Take a picture of us, hear!” Then he abandoned Garciev, caught up, grabbed his hand, again began to shake ...

She sobbed to Grozny. The guard, who was given by the chairman of the State Council for a trip in the Center, only asked: “In a word? Or action? " And he took the machine gun. The car flew out of the centoro at such a speed that it is better not to think about. And he rushed above the ground - this happens here when they are waiting for an ambush, so that there is more chances. The car with Garciev really flew by nearby. “Do not cry, you're strong,” the guard repeated.

Some have weapons of protection - automatic, rifle, etc., and it hangs on the side. Others have tears. This is what people differ. When the arguments are exhausted - yes, in fact, the Central Environment and the word “argument” itself does not understand - then tears remain.

These are tears of despair from how this could happen at all. That the round of history raised to the crest of Ramzan Kadyrov. And he is strong and ruled undividedly - naturally, as he can. That no one - not a single man who was in the central near the centurine, dared to stop the unbelted one.

That it was Ramzan, and not to anyone else, the Kremlin called Vladislav Yuryevich-heard-Vladislav Surkov, the deputy head of the Putin administration, and this was the only moment when Ramzan ceased to be rude, not noticing it himself, because he smells, where his power is from ...

So, an old-old fairy tale, which there was a lot in history: the Kremlin raised a dragon, and now it is necessary to constantly feed him so that he would not belp fire. The total failure of the Russian special services in Chechnya, which these special services are trying to give to society for victory and “construction of peaceful life”.