“We will never become part of Georgia”

During the negotiations with Vladimir Putin, the most important thing for his Georgian colleague Mikheil Saakashvili was the issue of restoring the territorial integrity of Georgia. But the unrecognized republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia believe that they have no less rights to independence than Montenegro or Kosovo.

The leaders of Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Transnistria held consultations in Sukhumi these days. Yesterday Sergei Bagapsh, Eduard Kokoity and Igor Smirnov proclaimed the creation of the community “For Democracy and the Rights of Peoples”. Within its framework, they will jointly seek independence through political means, including by submitting this issue to referendums. The leaders of the unrecognized states also signed a declaration on the creation of joint peacekeeping forces. They may be involved in conflict zones if the Georgians achieve the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers from there. In a joint statement, the three presidents emphasized: “Russian peacekeeping forces must remain in conflict zones until the conflicts are fully resolved, and there is no alternative to the presence of Russian peacekeepers.”

President of Abkhazia Sergei BAGAPSH answered the questions of Vremya Novostei correspondent in Georgia Mikhail VIGNANSKY.

- Mikheil Saakashvili always emphasizes that Georgia will not compromise on the main thing - respect for its territorial integrity.

- Both Russia and everyone else should consult with us. The international community must understand that double standards are unacceptable when Montenegro or Kosovo can gain independence, but not Abkhazia, South Ossetia or Transnistria. Abkhazia, with its history and the real state in which it is now, also deserves independence, and we will fight for it. We will tell Putin that we will never become part of Georgia.

- But Montenegro held a referendum on independence with the consent of Serbia. Unlike Montenegro, Abkhazia allows for the possibility of joining another country - Russia. And the referendum on independence in Abkhazia took place in the context of the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Georgians. Georgia did not recognize its results.

— We pose the question this way: Abkhazia is building its own independent state, and the 1999 referendum confirmed this. Approaches to solving problems like ours are changing around the world. And Georgia must take these realities into account if it considers itself a democratic and civilized state. In Montenegro, everything went smoothly; the Czech Republic and Slovakia separated peacefully. When siblings grow up in the same family, they then go to different houses and apartments. This is a natural process; it is impossible to keep small nations. It is up to Georgia to recognize the results of our referendum or not. Georgia had to think about how the wars against Abkhazia and South Ossetia would end when it started them. The main thing for us is the recognition of others, and others recognize us.

-- Earlier, Abkhazia announced its intention to become an associated member of the Russian Federation. Doesn't this contradict the principle of independence?

- There are absolutely no contradictions. Associated relations can be among independent states. This is a normal process for someone to represent us around the world, it will be Russia or another state.

- But you won’t become a subject of Russia?

- There is a referendum in 1999, the people voted for independence, no one has the right to cancel the referendum.

We are for a universal approach. You cannot help some and forbid others. I declare: regardless of the solution to the Kosovo problem, we will not give up our positions. I cannot say when our recognition will happen, it is a long process. But we will work persistently for this. Montenegro, Kosovo - all this will simply greatly speed up natural processes.

—What will Abkhazia do to convince the world community?

— In August-September in Abkhazia, under the auspices of non-governmental organizations, we intend to hold an international conference. We will invite politicians, analysts, observers, and specialists from various countries. Abkhazia believes that international mediators are not always objective. When two sides argue, it is necessary to give a high platform - the UN, the Security Council - to each of them. It is impossible for mediators to come to us for a day, meet with the leadership of the republic and thus draw conclusions about whether we are ready for independence, whether there are historical and legal grounds for our recognition. By the July G8 summit in St. Petersburg, we also plan to make public our thoughts and initiatives.

-- The Georgian Parliament may soon decide to terminate the mission of Russian peacekeepers.

— What can we even talk about after this if the Russian peacekeepers leave? There will be no dialogue. The withdrawal of peacekeepers will lead to instability throughout the Caucasus. Instead of the Russian military, ours will be there. Naturally, this will immediately affect the population of the Gali region. This could lead to the exodus of some of the people who now live normally in Gali and who trust the peacekeeping forces. There will be skirmishes and conflicts on the border that will escalate into hostilities. The scenario here is very simple.