Siege of "Highlander"

The conflict between security forces continues in Chechnya

In the Chechen village of Pobedinskoye, a paradoxical conflict has been going on for more than six months: police officers subordinate to Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov are blocking hundreds of their compatriots who say that they also want to become police officers, but do not want to obey Kadyrov. In the role of besieged there are about a hundred fighters of the Highlander operational combat group. It was created at the beginning of the second Chechen war and was subordinate to the FSB operational department for the North Caucasus, which was disbanded in February of this year. After the reform, the group was supposed to be transferred entirely to the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Chechnya, but refused to obey Ramzan Kadyrov, who in response demanded the disbandment of “Highlander”. The commander of the group, Movladi Baysarov, a former close ally of Chechen President Akhmat Kadyrov, who died in 2004, went into political opposition to his son. Some time ago, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Chechnya put him on the wanted list on suspicion of kidnapping and murder of several people. Mr. Baysarov, who is in Moscow, assures that he is not hiding from anyone, denies his guilt and is trying to get his former and current bosses in the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB to resolve the “Highlander” problem. Mr. Kadyrov and his associates are dissatisfied with the virtual refusal of Moscow and federal law enforcement agencies to assist in the arrest of Baysarov. Movladi BAISAROV himself and the speaker of the People's Assembly of Chechnya, one of the closest associates of the Prime Minister of the Republic, Dukvakha ABDURAKHMANOV, expressed their point of view on the protracted military-political conflict to Vremya Novostey columnist Ivan SUKHOV.

Movladi Baysarov: We have long been Kadyrov’s people

— How are things in Pobedinsky now, is the blockade of your base continuing?

- We are engaged in the employment of fighters, we are assigned to the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. This is done by senior officials who know that the group will bring many more benefits. The blockade of the base continues, the days pass, and not in our favor: people are tired of constant pressure. They have been in a state of siege for six months. They are not prisoners.

— Did the Prime Minister of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov, make any attempts to establish contact with you and resolve the situation through negotiations?

“I didn’t see any contact from him.” He allegedly met with fighters from the group, but the people he brought to the table with him had previously been expelled from the group for official inconsistency. He said that these people were “Highlander,” but in September a Moscow inspection from the FSB, six people, came to us to check whether there were really people at the base. They made sure how many people were on the base, what composition they were in, what kind of clothing they had, what weapons they had. Everyone is in full force, strictly according to the regulations. Those holding the blockade have set up reinforced checkpoints around the base and laid down concrete blocks. There are about a hundred of them, like my people, but upon call they will instantly receive reinforcements. We understand that as soon as we get out, we will find ourselves outside the law. The restraint of our guys has so far helped us avoid a collision. When the issue of our employment is finally resolved, then we will be able to present our rights in full.

— What is your own status now? The Chechen authorities have announced that you are wanted.

- I'm not hiding from anyone. The accusations made by Apti Alaudinov (head of the Organized Organized Crime Control Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Chechnya - Ed. ) are groundless. They found the time when they needed it. People disappeared and died in 2004. Why did they only discover this today? They allegedly have a person who even saw what weapon they were shot with. Something is wrong here. More than 3,000 people have gone missing in Chechnya. It would be nice to get some news in what way. And to this question, I think Kadyrov’s supporters know the answer better than I do. And with the powerful, the powerless is always to blame. Kadyrov gave the order to accuse a person - they accused. This often happens in Chechnya: oral gossip spreads, and on this basis people are let go. But when a citizen came to the Staropromyslovsky Prosecutor's Office of Grozny, whose products were stolen from his warehouse and the watchman who knew the names of those who did this was beaten, they refused to accept his statement. They say: Kadyrov will fire us.

- You are accused of involvement in the kidnapping and murder of the Musayev family.

- I know that such people have disappeared. But I didn’t know them personally. I have no idea who and where they exhumed now. Who exactly carried out the exhumation? No one shows their faces or the results of the examination, but they say - it is this family. Just like you, I saw bags with remains on TV.

— Have any procedural measures been taken against you?

- I know that I am allegedly involved in this case. And supposedly they have a witness who saw who shot them and how.

-Have you shot anyone?

-- Are you kidding me? Everything that is said about this now is said only in the interests of the Prime Minister of Chechnya. They say there must be another 30 bodies somewhere. They know better; among them there are people who know very well where everyone is buried.

— According to some reports, the federal prosecutor's office was interested in you in connection with the death of Anna Politkovskaya.

- If they are interested in me, I am here, I don’t go anywhere and I am ready to answer all questions.

- Do you have any versions of this murder?

- This was done by someone who was interested in it. Politkovskaya didn’t bother me. Although when I was with Akhmat Kadyrov, what she wrote was not always convenient for us. But everything she said was the truth, and I fought for the truth and never had anything against it. They talk about Chechen versions, but this is a very loose concept. Let the investigation sort it out, we can only guess.

— Did the Chechen law enforcement agencies attempt to detain you in Moscow?

- Yes, a group of Kadyrov’s associates came here, armed, with grenade launchers, with full ammunition, supposedly to detain me. I don’t know what kind of sanction they had, but personally, I still haven’t received any notice, any summons that I must appear at the prosecutor’s office or any other authorities. They say that this group came with a verbal order: if they detain me or if federal structures hand me over to them, somewhere between Rostov and Chechnya it would be necessary to arrange a liquidation. When trying to escape or something else.

— Is it normal, from your point of view, that armed Chechen fighters come to Moscow?

- This is normal for abnormal people.

- You are almost the only person who openly positions himself as a political opponent of Kadyrov. Is that so?

- I'm tired of living and being afraid. How long have people been humiliated in Chechnya?

- Are you an enemy of Kadyrov?

- I'm not an enemy. Why am I the enemy? I am a supporter of the constitution. If I say that this is wrong, that this cannot be done, what, should I be an enemy? Our enemies are there, in the forest.

— How would you characterize the current situation in Chechnya?

- The situation in Chechnya is catastrophic.

-What is the disaster?

- Well, if the prosecutor’s office is so afraid that it does not dare to accept a citizen’s statement, you can judge for yourself how intimidated people are. Are we in Kadyrov's colony?

— How did it happen that you, a person who was with Akhmat Kadyrov from the very beginning of his pro-Russian career, now find yourself literally on opposite sides of the barricades with his son?

— When I was a Kadyrovite, there were no those who now call themselves that; they sat at home. In 1999, we opposed the Wahhabis. There were a couple of dozen of us, reliable, connected by family and friendly relations. When Akhmat-haji Kadyrov was appointed head of the Chechen administration, he ordered the creation of such a unit to fight extremists and militants. At the same time, at first we provided him with personal security. We were stationed in the suburbs of Grozny. At that time, in 1999-2001, none of the current Kadyrovites had ever been to the city; they had never set foot there. And I fought there with the Wahhabis for almost two years and lost my people (the losses of “Highlander” since the beginning of the war are 51 people, its current number is about 100. - Ed. ).

— They often say that before the war you were in contact with Arbi Barayev and other militants, and even fought as part of Barayev’s “Sharia regiment.”

- I don’t even know about its existence. I was in Moscow at that time; I automatically could not be in any “Sharia regiment.” The “Sharia Regiment” are the scum with whom I have always fought. Who was Baraev? Son! How will I serve him?

— And then you were invited from Moscow in 1999?

-- No. I visited home often, I went once a month. And at that moment the Wahhabis had some kind of attack on my friend. I stood up for him, we had a clash in the center of Grozny. The confrontation lasted all day. We lost two of my close relatives, they are more than eight people. As a result, the Sharia court acquitted me. I didn’t want to go to the Sharia court, but they told me: if I don’t go, they will blame me for everything.

- Now some participants in the events say that when there were Sharia courts in Chechnya, there was at least somewhere for a person to turn in search of justice, but now, although the secular judicial system has been recreated, this has not made it any easier. Do you think so too?

-- No. This is Gantamirov being quoted. (Bislan Gantamirov, ex-mayor of Grozny, later commander of the Chechen militia and minister of information in the government of Akhmat Kadyrov. - Ed.) He meant that at that time there was at least someone to turn to if something happened, so that this was taken into account. And if today you bring a statement to the police, but they simply don’t take it from you, then in comparison with this at least some kind of law, even Sharia law, is better. Bislan Gantamirov wanted to express this. When I heard it, at first I felt angry: since he says that the Sharia court is good, it means he supports the Wahhabis. Then I realized that he wanted to express the current lawlessness in this way.

— How did you end up in the federal structure?

- Kadyrov's security service - there was no such federal structure, we were not legalized. So that we were authorized to work throughout Chechnya, Dagestan, and other surrounding areas, we were assigned to the operational management of the FSB, and we were completely with him. We have long been Kadyrov’s people, but since 2001 we have been under the operational control of the FSB. Until this spring, although we still have contact with them. In the spring of this year, the operational department was disbanded.

--What are your employment options?

- Perhaps we will be assigned to guard the Argun Thermal Power Plant, perhaps we will be transferred somewhere else to the security department. We don’t know for sure, but we believe that they won’t let us down.

— How do you see the political future of Chechnya?

-- The political future of Chechnya depends on Alu Alkhanov and his supporters. We will build this future in accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation. Alkhanov has a chance, he has support. He has us. We will not allow arbitrariness to continue in Chechnya.

-- How do you assess the quality of law enforcement structures created in Chechnya by Ramzan Kadyrov?

- They are of very high quality in their own way. They were of very high quality in their time in confronting federal forces. I'm not saying they're all action movies. But the majority there are those whom my people ran after through the forests, in battles with which they died. And today they became legalized and took up arms again. And, of course, it is not profitable for them to legalize my group. We are their blood enemies, and they want to get rid of us in any way.

— Is it possible to somehow correct this situation in the Chechen law enforcement agencies?

- It is necessary to remove some of the employees from the staff, and then re-recruit the staff as expected.

- Those who are taken outside the state will not start fighting?

- Such a concept exists in Moscow, it is misleading. Nobody is going to fight there. They were afraid of the difficulties in the mountains, went down and are now in the warmth. They don't want to lose this warmth. And Ramzan himself will never become an enemy in his life: everything is fine with him, he doesn’t want to lose that either.

— Do you think Ramzan Kadyrov can be the president of Chechnya?

- In this life, anything can happen. If we strive for the collapse of Russia, he can be president.

- But he enjoys support in the Kremlin, not to mention his growing popularity in the republic.

- Of course, there is support. Without this support, who is he? Rural peasant.

- Is it safe to enter into confrontation with a politician who has such support?

— It was much more dangerous at the beginning, when at the beginning of 1999 I spoke out against the militants together with Akhmat-haji. Then there was not a single day when I left the base and was sure that I would return.

Dukvakha Abdurakhmanov: If necessary, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB will solve the problem in one day

— How would you comment on the situation in Pobedinsky?

- The situation is such that if there is a need to solve it, then the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB of the Russian Federation, I think, will solve this problem in one day. Now this is being done by the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Chechen Republic, the Deputy Prime Minister for Law Enforcement Agencies. The Prime Minister himself has his finger on the pulse, so to speak. All operational work is done by the government. But I, for my part, must say this. We know today that this operational combat group “Highlander” was supposed to, when the corresponding FSB department was disbanded, move into the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Chechnya, which is a structural unit of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation. As far as I know, the orders of both structures are in full. If senior officials and headquarters of these departments have not followed through the relevant orders to their logical conclusion, it means that either someone has an interest, or there is organizational confusion. These departments will probably sort it out in their offices and headquarters. But inside the Chechen Republic the facts are as follows. At one time, Ramzan Kadyrov saved, promoted, and helped Movladi Baysarov. I remember the day when Ramzan, with a walkie-talkie in his hands, ran to Akhmat-haji Kadyrov: “Movladi is in a difficult situation, we need to help him, save him, help us, help him.” Kadyrov turned to the same FSB and Ministry of Internal Affairs for help. I remember such moments of their relationship, I remember the friendship of Ramzan Kadyrov and Shirvani Baysarov. This is Movladi’s brother, who died in the terrorist attack; he was a very decent guy and a good warrior.

— Whose fault is it that the situation with the siege of the base in Pobedinsky has dragged on so long?

- If after the relevant orders the group is not disbanded, then the relevant department is to blame, which must carry out its orders to the end. Ramzan Kadyrov is the Chairman of the Government of the Chechen Republic. As a person responsible for peace and order on Chechen territory, he has the right to believe that an armed group that does not belong here or here should not exist. When Baysarov fights with international terrorists, with illegal armed groups, the authorities and society say nothing to him, only “thank you.” But in this case, the group must be disarmed, distributed, or another unit must be created from it, which will carry out its functions every day, and not sit under siege, as they now say. Therefore, I believe that Ramzan Kadyrov is absolutely right. He asks to restore order on his territory. If the unit is officially disbanded, it appears to be an unidentified armed unit. Baysarov, who was once supported by Ramzan Kadyrov, is now in Moscow, and the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Chechen Republic has announced a request for him, saying that there is a crime behind him. In this situation, Baysarov must return to the republic and appear before the people and before the Chechen court, and not hide in Moscow, not call unknown structures for help and not denigrate his own former comrade-in-arms, his own people and his own government. It's ugly and undignified.

— Is Movladi Baysarov officially considered a suspect in Chechnya?

- It turns out like this. The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Chechnya reported that there were crimes behind him. These crimes have been announced. What points of law apply to them must be said by other people. I just think that it is unacceptable for those who commit some crimes to go to other regions to hide behind some structures. Yesterday, for some reason, he was able to get along with Ramzan and talk about the positive, that Ramzan is the best, our republic and government, the people are the best. And today, when he is deprived of his position and called to answer for his actions, he immediately says: it’s the other way around. Everything is bad, Ramzan is bad. It doesn't happen that way.

— Do you know anything about Baysarov’s past before the start of the second war in Chechnya?

- No, I don’t know his history at that time, I’ve known him since the period when he was under Akhmat-haji, from 2001-2002. I cannot judge what tasks and what role he performed then. But then he was included in all power structures and Ramzan. And today, if something happened between them, then it was necessary to solve it on the spot, and not go to Moscow. Probably anyone who finds himself in a situation like his, whether he is guilty or not, will first of all say that others are to blame. But this is dishonest.

- The very duration of this story suggests that Baysarov has support. Do you think it exists?

- Yes, it exists. Although the people, other than the leader of the operational combat group, absolutely do not know him and do not support him.

- Who supports him?

—Who supported Dudayev? Who supported Maskhadov? They didn't support it, or what? They supported them, fed them, held them. But here the scale is different, the personality is different. But someone needs it, since it is located in the center of Moscow. The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Chechnya, which is a structural unit of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, demands: “Give it back.” Chechnya is not a separate state, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Chechnya is not a separate structure! They say: we have complaints against him. Why can’t you at least come and find out what the complaints are?

— How do Moscow and federal law enforcement agencies react?

- I can’t say.

— Baysarov says he supports President Alkhanov. Is the President of Chechnya involved in this confrontation?

- These are irresponsible statements. This has absolutely no basis. Baysarov walked the road that he walked. He has his own biography. But in the political part of the Chechen Republic, his biography and his attempts do not play any role. There is a leader of the Chechen people, this is Ramzan Kadyrov. There is President Alkhanov. If Baysarov discussed some issues with President Alkhanov while he was on the wanted list, then this turns out to be a behind-the-scenes conversation. Kadyrov's team does not know about him. If such negotiations took place, they should be brought to the attention of the residents of the Chechen Republic, society and Kadyrov’s team.

—What do you think, will Ramzan Kadyrov be the president of Chechnya? Or could the story with Baysarov become a serious political problem for him?

— In the Chechen Republic there is no such concept in relation to Ramzan “if he becomes president.” Ramzan Kadyrov will be the president of the Chechen Republic, that’s for sure. Its current reality is creation, progress, and the strengthening of Russian state power. It is impossible to form another such figure, invent her, elevate her to such a level, give her such charisma and such fame that she would have such military exploits behind her in the name of Russian statehood. There is no such figure. In the entire Caucasus, no, what does Chechnya have to do with it? Let any republic say that they have a leader like Kadyrov, who can be closely compared to him. And compare with him one of the group commanders, Movladi Baysarov. Do you know how many such regimental commanders and heroes we have who are hung with orders?

— How do you think the fate of Alu Alkhanov should turn out if Ramzan Kadyrov becomes president? There is still more than a year and a half left until the end of his term.

- This issue is very easily resolved. Alkhanov is a lieutenant general of the Russian police. From there he came when the supreme power and the same team of Ramzan Kadyrov proposed his candidacy for the post of President of the Chechen Republic. Probably, upon completion of his official duties, he will be in demand at the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation. The Chechen elite, Kadyrov’s team, is also not going to abandon their generals. Quite the opposite. But today we do not pose such a question. If we had raised it, it would have already been decided. This will be decided by Ramzan Kadyrov, Kadyrov’s team, and President Putin. But this haste, I predict, comes from enemies and is aimed at destabilizing society. Ramzan says one thing clearly: he will build, create, establish peace. When necessary, Putin himself will say. The people will support him, but he himself does not strive for any position. I clearly assure you that when he was appointed first deputy prime minister and chairman of the government, the whole team gathered, and the party (“United Russia.” - Ed. ) gathered, and we turned to the elders for help so that he could go. We needed him, the Chechen Republic and Russia needed him. But Ramzan has absolutely no need for these positions, he is a Hero of Russia and a self-sufficient person.

— Could you clarify why Ramzan received the hero star?

-- Certainly. For the totality of merit. And because when there were thousands of militants on the other side in Chechnya, he crushed them. Here is the return of Khanbiev (surrender of Magomed Khanbiev, March 2004. - -Ed. ) - whose merit? Ramzan conducted a military operation during this period. Khanbiev was the Minister of Defense of Ichkeria. In fact, Shamil Basayev was killed only because he was in the pen, Ramzan Kadyrov did not leave a place for him in Chechnya. I remember Ramzan walking through a minefield in Tsotsin-Yurt four years ago. How many did he pardon? It was in his name, first in his father’s name, and then in his name they went to surrender. Dozens of examples can be given. A milkmaid in the Ryazan province can be given a hero for her milk yield. And a man who has been in extreme military conditions for several years, goes into battle among his units, saves hundreds of Russian citizens, soldiers and officers - how can he not be given a hero? He should have been, as before, twice, and three times, and four times a hero. We absolutely think that based on his exploits he should have been a hero four times over. But they don’t give it now, you can only give such a reward once.

— How do you feel about the initiative of the senator from Chechnya, Umar Dzhabrailov, who recently asked you to speed up the process of transferring power from Mr. Alkhanov to Mr. Kadyrov?

- You know, I have a positive attitude. But there are moments that the team itself decides internally. These are questions that we can solve from within. According to the law, the party, which took most places in parliament, can offer its candidate - and it will be Ramzan Kadyrov. This is also a script. Putin is still watching, watching. Ramzan Kadyrov says that he does not need a gift, and now he absolutely clearly supports Alkhanov. Therefore, there is no conflict that many are talking about here. But Baysarov and the like (good guy or bad) should not run away to Moscow and say from there that they are right. In that village, in the republic where he performed both right and wrong things, he must continue his biography further. And do not hide from their own people and from their own power.