Date
Author
Анастасия Кириленко; Юрий Тимофеев
Source
Preserved copy
Translated material
Why did Marina Salier are silent about Putin for 10 years?
2010 began with significant dates. 10 years ago, Vladimir Putin began to fulfill the duties of the President of the Russian Federation. 10 years have passed since the death of the first mayor of St. Petersburg Anatoly Sobchak . And another date - exactly 10 years since Marina Salier, a former People’s Deputy of Russia, a deputy of the St. Petersburg City Council, moved to the deaf village of the Pskov region. Since then, she never met reporters.
Marina Salier knew Anatoly Alexandrovich Sobchak well, and the activities of Vladimir Putin in the authorities of St. Petersburg devoted a whole investigation. In 1992, a special commission of the St. Petersburg City Council on Salier’s leadership came to the conclusion that, according to the documents signed by the chairman of the Committee on External Relations under the mayor of St. Petersburg Vladimir Putin, as well as his deputy Alexander Anikin, rare-earth metals, oil products and other raw materials were taken out more than a hundred million dollars. These were barter contracts. Instead of St. Petersburg, where there were not enough food that cards were already introduced on it, parties of meat, potatoes, and poultry should have arrived. But they did not do it. The Salier Commission report was submitted to the prosecutor's office and control department of the presidential administration.
However, the investigation was stalled, and Vladimir Putin was not only not removed from his post, as the City Council of St. Petersburg recommended, having heard Salier’s report, but also received a promotion.
In 2000, when the career of former deputy Sobchak reached the highest point, almost all foreign correspondents and even one Russian television channel hastened to interview Marina Salier. Salier at that time wrote articles herself, urging not to vote for Putin. And suddenly - after the victory of Vladimir Putin in the elections - she went to the Deep Village and stopped communicating with reporters.
In February 2010, Marina Evgenievna decided to make an exception for Radio Liberty .
Today, Marina Salier lives in the Pskov region. She retained her archive. It includes a famous report, more than 40 applications to it (including documents on which RS correspondents discovered three options for the signature of Vladimir Putin, of course, their authenticity did not check the RS), the correspondence of Vladimir Putin with the St. Petersburg customs, the correspondence of Anatoly Sobchak and Yegor Gaidar regarding the documents issued to Putin's exporters ... The former deputy also stores several folders with the decisions of the City Council of St. Petersburg, cancel the decisions of the mayor of St. Petersburg Anatoly Sobchak.
Marina Salier (photo by Yuri Timofeeva) Marina Salier considered that the recently released film "Anatoly Sobchak. 10 years later", which included an interview with Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev , without his commentary:
- Sobchak has never been a democrat. Of course, the Lens Council is to blame, and I, including that we put him on the kingdom. But no one expected what began later. Almost from the first meeting, he began to stomp us with his feet, in completely impermissible expressions insulting the deputies, discrediting them in all possible ways. And he had a lot of ways. The whole press was in his hands, and he was printed willingly. We were also printed, but less often. And they didn’t allow television. And this discredit of the best City Council in Russia (I then visited the Moscow Council and I can say that our composition was stronger), I am convinced, led to discrediting legislative power in general. Not only in St. Petersburg, but throughout the country. And so we came to our current parliament.
Sobchak had a clear goal - to make from the Council ... It is not appropriate to an elderly woman, a doctor of sciences to say obscene words ... but he wanted to make from the Council, sorry, g ... the conflict began immediately. “He became the master of the city,” President Medvedev said in the film about Sobchak. Medvedev at least understands that there should be the separation of the legislative, executive, judicial authorities?
But the "master of the city" - said for sure. It was so, he achieved this in every way. He sought the right to dissolve the City Council and district councils. No more, no less. I have not achieved. Moreover, he used unacceptable methods, just a straight lie.
The matter came to the point that on March 30, 1992, the St. Petersburg City Council of People's Deputies decided to consider it appropriate to dismiss the mayor of the St. Petersburg Petherge of Sobchak. This document was sent to Yeltsin. Here is what we wrote to the president about Sobchak: the mayor of the city "stubbornly sought to withdraw the executive branch out of the control of representative."
- Yeltsin did not react?
- No. Next, we take the decision of the 19th session of the City Council of April 28, the 93rd year. The Council decided to recognize the report of the mayor of St. Petersburg Sobchak on the activities of the administration ... You can talk a lot about this, but the main thing is that when he was the chairman of the council, he did not engage in the activities of the council. At that time, Sobchak was passionate about various kinds of presentations, trips abroad, and new costumes. And as soon as he became the mayor, he already had a team around him (Putin was already there), and then the looting of the city began.
Both President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin merit to Sobchak that he returned his original name to the city. This is not true. The deputy Skobeid made a draft decision on the 7th session of the Leningrad City Council to return the city of its historical name. And the 7th session decided on number 25 of April 30 - conduct a survey.
Members of the democratic parties (free Democratic Party Russia and others) began to operate - they distributed leaflets, newspapers by the metro ... actively acted. And Sobchak was silent. Finally, on the eve of the survey, he made an appeal to Leningraders and said: "Decide for yourself." The city was renamed the results of the population survey. I categorically do not want people to put the city to the merit of Sobchak.
Another point that requires our attention is the observance of the rule of law, that Putin and Medvedev are also merit
I have a lot of these conclusions. For example, the famous decision on the New Holland (prestigious district of St. Petersburg. - RS ). Sobchak gave the architectural ensemble to the mercy of some unknown company. The conditions for the city were so unprofitable that the deputies gasped when they saw. Or here is the "analysis of regulatory documents issued by the mayor and vice-mayor of St. Petersburg." And here is a list of these orders and the conclusion about what laws they violate: property, local self -government, the Civil Code, the Code of the RSFSR on administrative offenses, the laws of the USSR on cooperation, on enterprises and entrepreneurial activities, etc. We sent this paper to Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin on January 15, 92. They didn’t send it - I gave it into his hands.
- Result?
- No. But about the fact that Sobchak "the first to us indicated that we need to follow the laws" - whose cow would mumble ...
- When I watched a film about Sobchak on February 19, I thought everything: when will it come to food? When will they say that Sobchak saved the city from hunger? But this topic is closed to them, and they do not want to raise it and will not. Because they know that I will not be silent.
Everything is simple ... in the fall-winter 1991-1992, the city was left without food. The fault of this is neither Sobchak, nor mine, nor the chairman of the Food Committee, i.e. There was no executive structure. Partially hid food. Well, it was not physically in the country.
After the coup of 1991, economic reforms did not begin for a very long time. The Baltic states were the first to release prices. And then the frantic export of food remnants from St. Petersburg began. I realized that it was necessary to enter cards to the remains of food. I, a blockade, understood what the introduction of cards means for our city. But it was necessary. There were already a lot of coupons - for milk, meat, sausage, vodka. At a meeting of the leadership of St. Petersburg, only Alexander Nikolaevich Belyaev supported me, he was then the chairman of the financial and economic commission. He supported me, and we introduced cards. By the introduction of these cards, we kept the situation for some time.
And then I began to find out, solely by rumors that our city was allocated by quotas for the sale of forests, metals and other goods
And, speaking very briefly, it was like this: the agreements were concluded by God knows with which firms. The firms were completely fake, one -day. Licenses for the export of raw materials were issued by our St. Petersburg Committee on Foreign Economic Relations, that is, its leader Putin. He signed them either himself (rarely), or his deputy Anikin. They did not have the right to issue these licenses. And goods with these licenses went abroad. And food was not received. And did not come.
- How much was raw materials sold?
- It depends on the prices of raw materials. Another feature of these agreements was that prices were very underestimated in them. For example, for a rare -earth metal scandium. The experts that I turned to gave one digit. Later, the journalist of Vedomosti Vladimir Ivanidze found out another figure from other experts. According to them, the prices in the contract for rare -earth metals were underestimated not by tens, but hundreds of times. But Ivanidze was kicked out of Vedomosti at the same time as he wrote. He left the country ... By the way, at the first calculations, I missed the exported aluminum.
As for Scandia, the contract indicates the price of 72.6 dochmark. In reality, the price of the cheapest Scandium is $ 2,000 per kilogram, which is forty times higher than the price indicated in the contract. And in 1992, when this metal was exported, the price of metal powder Scandia was 372,000 dollars per kilogram. Hundreds of times higher. Scandia was taken out 7 kilograms ... So multiply! In general, these contracts were talking about millions, about tens of millions of dollars of profit. Not only Putin, but also Sobchak was engaged in this matter ...
When Yegor Gaidar realized that something incredible with this barter was happening in St. Petersburg, he reacted. And he realized because I informed Fedor Shkrudnev - at that time the acting
And then Gaidar wrote a harsh paper , which said that only authorized ministries of foreign economic relations have the right to issue licenses for the export of raw materials abroad. In the North-Western Federal District, Pakhomov is such. Pakhomov came to me and said: "You just look, Marina Evgenievna, what is being done!" And at this moment, Sobchak draws up the protocol "On cooperation between the mayor of St. Petersburg and the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations of the Russian Federation" ( see photocopies of the first , second , third and fourth sheets - RS ).
Then Peter Aven, then the head of the IMPC, issues an order "On the status of the Commissioner of the Russian MVES in St. Petersburg." Pakhomova is removed. The Putin Committee of Foreign Economic Relations in the City Hall makes a double subordination committee and give him the right to sign licenses. Sobchak closed Putin with his chest. But one more point remains. The licenses already issued by Putin for the export of raw materials have not been confirmed. And then Sobchak writes a very cunning letter to Gaidar : “We have been allocated quotas for such and such raw materials. Such and such licenses have already been issued for it. However, the sending is delayed. If we are not going further, the city will be left without food, we will lose confidence in the population. I propose to continue to issue licenses.”
And Gaidar writes: I agree . To which the journalist Vladimir Ivanidze (not me, but Ivanidze!) Speaks as follows: either the signature on the Gaidar document is forged (which I do not exclude at all; the numbers on the documents are corrected several times, especially on the Avenovsky ...), or Gaidar led a double game. For me it was an absolute nonsense. On the one hand, Gaidar, as the Prime Minister, imposes a categorical ban on the issuance of licenses anyone other than the authorized MVES, on the other, agrees with this cunning, ambiguous letter of Sobchak.
In one of his last interviews, Sobchak says about me: "Because of Salier, because of all these delays there was no food in the city." Yes, not because of me. Food was not received, because there were no companies that had to put it.
- To whom were the companies registered?
- There are no famous people among them, except for one - Grigory Miroshnik. By that time, he had already managed to sit twice in prison, headed the company Interkocenter. He received a huge batch - 150 thousand tons of diesel fuel. Nes -blessed. And a contract was signed with him and a license was issued.
When our working group finished their work, a huge report was drawn up. He was submitted to the meeting of the Presidium. The Presidium approved him, and we sent him to the prosecutor's office. In the report, I did not insist on the responsibility of Sobchak, but only the head of the committee on the foreign economic relations of Putin. Otherwise, the presidium simply would not approve the report. They would not have gone against Sobchak.
The prosecutor’s office did not answer for a long time, then replied that she was calling for some secretary of the Lensovet Golubev in this case. Where does this Golubev? It is incomprehensible. Then I took this report to the head of the control department of the presidential administration, Yuri Boldyrev. I called him, and we immediately met. He acted very promptly. Firstly, he wrote a letter to Aven directly with me (dated March 31, 1992) :
"Dear Petr Olegovich! Materials from the deputies of the working group of the St. Petersburg City Council of People's Deputies, testifying to the possible need to remove the chairman of the City Hall of St. Petersburg Putin V.V. from the position of external relations of the Putin’s external relations from the occupied positions. In this regard, I ask you not to consider the issue of the appointment of Putin V.V. for any posts. Until the consideration of these materials by the control department. "
After that, Sobchak instantly appointed Putin to the authorized MVES in St. Petersburg, with double subordination. Sobchak at the same time said: "I will appoint him, unless he goes higher in Moscow." Here you go. Putin was appointed, and Boldyrev was removed. And he did not answer me. Sorry. That's the whole story. In the prosecutor’s office, the case remained not investigated. As you understand, a story with licenses, with food, tens of millions of dollars that people involved then earned then (I don’t know who; the people who did this) very tightly connected Sobchak and Putin. This is evident by all documents. Sobchak knew about all the details of this case. He
And the letter of Gaidar, in which he agreed with the Jesuit formulations of Sobchak, closed everything. Putin was allowed to issue licenses and legalized licenses issued earlier. The design of the licenses itself is below all criticism - there are no dates, on some seals, there are no signatures. What was not there - a lot of violations.
Thus, Sobchak closes Putin. And from this moment they are closely connected by these millions ... And then this "continent" ...
We agree with her about the meeting, and she says that she cannot meet with us at this time, because she has negotiations for a very large amount and also with St. Petersburg people. We clung to it with a dead grip. We told her: "Food is us, no one else." We find out that it concludes a contract for 90 million German brands for 60,000 tons of meat.
- With whom?
- We do not know - with whom. I call Sobchak, I say that the calculations go through Vnesheconombank (we found out). Sobchak called and said that he had checked, and no amounts were received for Vnesheconombank. And here we will learn about the Continent company . The Continent company Valentin Pavlov, Prime Minister of the USSR, was once entrusted with the purchase of food and other goods for Leningrad. This meat entered Russia and went, bypassing Leningrad, to Moscow. And all this happened on the eve of the coup of the 91st year. Is it not the putsheists stored meat, so that as soon as they finish their affairs, throw the meat into the counter? One way or another, but you must admit, it is very strange that this very "continent" continued to purchase a gateway in 1992. Я написала запрос главному государственному инспектору РФ, начальнику Контрольного управления администрации президента Юрию Болдыреву. Ответа я на этот запрос не получила – Болдырева быстро сняли.
Время шло, и Собчак, несмотря на все свое очарование (его дар оратора, дар нравиться, должна согласиться, бесспорны), не пользовался в городе популярностью. И только в самом центре и "самые интеллигенты", я бы сказала, поддерживали его. А в спальных районах он потерял свой рейтинг. И дело тут не в сопернике… Эта история с его квартирой, с уголовным делом… В один прекрасный день с помощью Путина Собчак улетел на самолете в Финляндию, а оттуда в Париж.
Ну, а как только Борис Николаевич отдал бразды правления Владимиру Владимировичу, Анатолий Александрович решил, что все теперь в порядке, он неподсуден и под защитой Владимира Владимировича... он может спокойно вернуться в Россию. Что и сделал, и был абсолютно не прав. Дело кончилось плохо. Я думаю, что вряд ли он умер своей смертью . Потому что все обстоятельства этой смерти были очень странными, и Людмила Борисовна на следующий день после его смерти сама высказала такое предположение. Правда, еще через день ей, наверное, хорошо объяснили все, что надо, и она отказалась от этой версии. Возможно, нужно было бы провести эксгумацию.
- Возвращаясь к докладу рабочей группы о деятельности Владимира Путина. Он был сделан в 1992 году, а начал широко цитироваться только в 2000 году. What is the reason?
- Да, действительно, его стали широко обсуждать только через 8 лет. Потому что до этого доклад никого не интересовал. В 1999 – 2000 году я уже жила в Москве (работала для Свободной демократической партии России - СвДПР) . И вот 30 декабря ко мне на работу пришел корреспондент НТВ Евгений Ревенко и стал задавать вопросы про этот доклад и про Путина, из чего я поняла - что-то не то происходит. СМИ давно мной не интересовались.
It was December 30. А 31-го Ельцин объявил о своем преемнике. Тут я поняла, в чем дело. А на НТВ из моего длинного интервью прозвучало 2-3 фразы. Энтэвэшник все добивался, чтобы я все сказала прямо. Но я понимала, что дело какое-то серьезное, и отвечала уклончиво. А потом я стала звездой мировой прессы. В течение января у меня перебывали представители ведущих СМИ всего мира. Кого только не было.
Путин в книге "От первого лица. Разговоры с Владимиром Путиным" (книга вышла в 2000 году. - РС ) написал такую фразу (почти цитирую): "Да в том то и дело, что не было никаких лицензий. Ну не было их" (" Лицензии мы не имели право давать. В том-то все и дело. Лицензии давали подразделения министерства внешнеэкономических связей. Это федеральная структура, не имевшая никакого отношения к администрации города". - РС ). А они все у меня в папке лежат...
Убьют меня. Наташа (сестра. - РС ) очень боится.
- Были прямые угрозы?
- No.
- Почему вы переехали?
- Я переехала из-за Юшенкова. Мы договорились с Юшенковым о встрече, это было в начале 2000 года. Мы, свободные демократы, хотели объединяться с ним. У нас были всегда очень хорошие отношения с Сергеем Николаевичем. И я увидела в его кабинете человека, которого я не хотела видеть никогда, нигде, ни при каких обстоятельствах. Я не назову вам этой фамилии. И тогда я поняла, что лучше уехать. А Сергей Николаевич вскоре был убит. С 2000 года я не давала интервью либо предупреждала журналистов: о Путине – ни слова. Я переехала сразу, а Наташа через несколько месяцев - нужно было доделать дела в Москве.
- Вы не хотели уехать за границу?
- No. Я человек своей страны. Я космополит, безусловно, но жить могу только в своей стране... Я рада моему виду на озеро гораздо больше, чем была бы рада такому креслу, в котором восседала Людмила Нарусова в фильме о Собчаке.
- В СМИ разошлась информация о телеграмме, якобы присланной вам на Новый 2001 год: "Желаю крепкого здоровья, а также возможности им пользоваться. В.В. Путин". Was it like that?
- No. Nothing of the kind. Наверное, если бы она пришла на мой официальный адрес в Петербурге, то мне бы сообщили. С Путиным лично мы встречались два или три раза. Два хорошо помню. Один раз присутствовала вся наша рабочая группа, куда Путин пришел со своей бумажонкой (справкой о выдаче квот на экспорт сырья. – РС ), а второй раз мы были вдвоем с Юрой Гладковым, моим заместителем. Юра уже умер. Когда в 2000 году у него пытались брать интервью, он категорически отказался.
- Why?
- Боялся. Мне он так и объяснил: "Нет, Марина Евгеньевна, я не могу".
- Почему именно Путин, по вашей версии, стал преемником?
- Трудно объяснить. Знаю только, что Собчак и Ельцин не любили друг друга…
Доминанта исполнительной власти была заложена именно при Собчаке . Ведь потом горсовет и меньше стал, и реже собирался…. И этот петербургский стиль, несомненно, повлиял на нынешнюю власть. Да и потом, из всех демократов, которые были в Петербурге, кроме Чубайса (можете убить меня за то, что я так говорю), кроме Чубайса, никто не попал.
Когда наш координационный совет обсуждал, поддерживать или нет Путина на выборах 2000 года, именно голос Чубайса "за" решил все. Гайдар, кстати, не голосовал. Я, Лев Пономарев, Константин Титов на рельсы ложились, чтобы его не поддерживали.
- Другие члены координационного совета знали о вашем отчете по поводу Путина ?
- Специально я об этом не говорила... Но, например, "Новая газета" к тому времени опубликовала статью Олега Лурье об этом.
И вот, благодаря Чубайсу, голосов "за Путина" хватило. Я тогда сказала: "Анатолий Борисович, мой лимит доверия к вам исчерпан". Теперь остается только злорадствовать: "я вам говорила". Я сразу поняла, что Путин – это надолго. Мне возражали – "ну, на два срока". Нет, я говорила – он что-нибудь придумает. Сегодня Медведев несамостоятелен, а Путин после Медведева вернется обратно на пост президента.
- Есть ли надежда на объединение оппозиции?
- I have no. Я вообще думаю, что Россия просто развалится на части.
- Тогда, в 1991-93 году, тоже была такая угроза.
- Но тогда был народ, который этому противостоял. А сейчас его нет, - сказала Марина Салье .
Эфирную версию интервью с Мариной Салье слушайте в программе Дмитрия Волчека "Итоги недели" в субботу 6 марта.
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Марина Салье родилась в 1934 году в Ленинграде. В 1941- 1942 гг. находилась в блокадном Ленинграде. По профессии геолог, доктор геолого-минералогических наук. С 1957 до 1990 года работала в Институте геологии и геохронологии докембрия АН СССР. Автор более ста научных работ по геологии.
С 1987 года Марина Салье - активист и лидер демократических организаций и движений. Была лидером Ленинградского народного фронта (1988 - 1990), лидером Межрегиональной ассоциации демократических организаций (1989 -1990). В 1990 году стала одним из инициаторов создания и идеологом Свободной демократической партии России (СвДПР), активно участвовала в движении "Демократическая Россия".
В 1990 - 1993 годах Марина Салье была избрана депутатом Ленинградского городского Совета и стала председателем комиссии по продовольствию. Одновременно в 1990 -1993 годах была народным депутатом России.
Марина Салье - автор книг "Мафрупция, мафрупция! Мафия и коррупция" (1994), "История Свободных демократов России" (2000) и других.
Marina Salier knew Anatoly Alexandrovich Sobchak well, and the activities of Vladimir Putin in the authorities of St. Petersburg devoted a whole investigation. In 1992, a special commission of the St. Petersburg City Council on Salier’s leadership came to the conclusion that, according to the documents signed by the chairman of the Committee on External Relations under the mayor of St. Petersburg Vladimir Putin, as well as his deputy Alexander Anikin, rare-earth metals, oil products and other raw materials were taken out more than a hundred million dollars. These were barter contracts. Instead of St. Petersburg, where there were not enough food that cards were already introduced on it, parties of meat, potatoes, and poultry should have arrived. But they did not do it. The Salier Commission report was submitted to the prosecutor's office and control department of the presidential administration.
However, the investigation was stalled, and Vladimir Putin was not only not removed from his post, as the City Council of St. Petersburg recommended, having heard Salier’s report, but also received a promotion.
In 2000, when the career of former deputy Sobchak reached the highest point, almost all foreign correspondents and even one Russian television channel hastened to interview Marina Salier. Salier at that time wrote articles herself, urging not to vote for Putin. And suddenly - after the victory of Vladimir Putin in the elections - she went to the Deep Village and stopped communicating with reporters.
In February 2010, Marina Evgenievna decided to make an exception for Radio Liberty .
Today, Marina Salier lives in the Pskov region. She retained her archive. It includes a famous report, more than 40 applications to it (including documents on which RS correspondents discovered three options for the signature of Vladimir Putin, of course, their authenticity did not check the RS), the correspondence of Vladimir Putin with the St. Petersburg customs, the correspondence of Anatoly Sobchak and Yegor Gaidar regarding the documents issued to Putin's exporters ... The former deputy also stores several folders with the decisions of the City Council of St. Petersburg, cancel the decisions of the mayor of St. Petersburg Anatoly Sobchak.
Marina Salier (photo by Yuri Timofeeva) Marina Salier considered that the recently released film "Anatoly Sobchak. 10 years later", which included an interview with Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev , without his commentary:
- Sobchak has never been a democrat. Of course, the Lens Council is to blame, and I, including that we put him on the kingdom. But no one expected what began later. Almost from the first meeting, he began to stomp us with his feet, in completely impermissible expressions insulting the deputies, discrediting them in all possible ways. And he had a lot of ways. The whole press was in his hands, and he was printed willingly. We were also printed, but less often. And they didn’t allow television. And this discredit of the best City Council in Russia (I then visited the Moscow Council and I can say that our composition was stronger), I am convinced, led to discrediting legislative power in general. Not only in St. Petersburg, but throughout the country. And so we came to our current parliament.
Sobchak had a clear goal - to make from the Council ... It is not appropriate to an elderly woman, a doctor of sciences to say obscene words ... but he wanted to make from the Council, sorry, g ... the conflict began immediately. “He became the master of the city,” President Medvedev said in the film about Sobchak. Medvedev at least understands that there should be the separation of the legislative, executive, judicial authorities?
But the "master of the city" - said for sure. It was so, he achieved this in every way. He sought the right to dissolve the City Council and district councils. No more, no less. I have not achieved. Moreover, he used unacceptable methods, just a straight lie.
The matter came to the point that on March 30, 1992, the St. Petersburg City Council of People's Deputies decided to consider it appropriate to dismiss the mayor of the St. Petersburg Petherge of Sobchak. This document was sent to Yeltsin. Here is what we wrote to the president about Sobchak: the mayor of the city "stubbornly sought to withdraw the executive branch out of the control of representative."
- Yeltsin did not react?
- No. Next, we take the decision of the 19th session of the City Council of April 28, the 93rd year. The Council decided to recognize the report of the mayor of St. Petersburg Sobchak on the activities of the administration ... You can talk a lot about this, but the main thing is that when he was the chairman of the council, he did not engage in the activities of the council. At that time, Sobchak was passionate about various kinds of presentations, trips abroad, and new costumes. And as soon as he became the mayor, he already had a team around him (Putin was already there), and then the looting of the city began.
Both President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin merit to Sobchak that he returned his original name to the city. This is not true. The deputy Skobeid made a draft decision on the 7th session of the Leningrad City Council to return the city of its historical name. And the 7th session decided on number 25 of April 30 - conduct a survey.
Members of the democratic parties (free Democratic Party Russia and others) began to operate - they distributed leaflets, newspapers by the metro ... actively acted. And Sobchak was silent. Finally, on the eve of the survey, he made an appeal to Leningraders and said: "Decide for yourself." The city was renamed the results of the population survey. I categorically do not want people to put the city to the merit of Sobchak.
Another point that requires our attention is the observance of the rule of law, that Putin and Medvedev are also merit
Sobchak. Sorry, but everything is exactly the opposite. I don’t know if I can name another statesman of such a rank, so neglecting in relation to the law. Let's start with a simple thing: here in front of me is a stack of decisions made by Sobchak and then canceled by the City Council. They concern mainly property, buildings. Legal conclusions, on the basis of which the Council was canceled by the decision, was given not by anyone, but by Dmitry Kozak. He is a very competent lawyer and helped us a lot.I don’t know if I can call another statesman of such a rank, so neglecting in relation to the law
I have a lot of these conclusions. For example, the famous decision on the New Holland (prestigious district of St. Petersburg. - RS ). Sobchak gave the architectural ensemble to the mercy of some unknown company. The conditions for the city were so unprofitable that the deputies gasped when they saw. Or here is the "analysis of regulatory documents issued by the mayor and vice-mayor of St. Petersburg." And here is a list of these orders and the conclusion about what laws they violate: property, local self -government, the Civil Code, the Code of the RSFSR on administrative offenses, the laws of the USSR on cooperation, on enterprises and entrepreneurial activities, etc. We sent this paper to Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin on January 15, 92. They didn’t send it - I gave it into his hands.
- Result?
- No. But about the fact that Sobchak "the first to us indicated that we need to follow the laws" - whose cow would mumble ...
- Sobchak is not the only one who attracted attention then.
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Marina Salier about Putin's work in St. Petersburg
- When I watched a film about Sobchak on February 19, I thought everything: when will it come to food? When will they say that Sobchak saved the city from hunger? But this topic is closed to them, and they do not want to raise it and will not. Because they know that I will not be silent.
Everything is simple ... in the fall-winter 1991-1992, the city was left without food. The fault of this is neither Sobchak, nor mine, nor the chairman of the Food Committee, i.e. There was no executive structure. Partially hid food. Well, it was not physically in the country.
After the coup of 1991, economic reforms did not begin for a very long time. The Baltic states were the first to release prices. And then the frantic export of food remnants from St. Petersburg began. I realized that it was necessary to enter cards to the remains of food. I, a blockade, understood what the introduction of cards means for our city. But it was necessary. There were already a lot of coupons - for milk, meat, sausage, vodka. At a meeting of the leadership of St. Petersburg, only Alexander Nikolaevich Belyaev supported me, he was then the chairman of the financial and economic commission. He supported me, and we introduced cards. By the introduction of these cards, we kept the situation for some time.
And then I began to find out, solely by rumors that our city was allocated by quotas for the sale of forests, metals and other goods
For Barter in exchange for products. What quotas? Where are the quotas? Officially, no one knows anything. I wrote a request to Sobchak and received an answer, however, soon. A working group was created to investigate this situation.I began to learn, solely by rumors that our city is allocated by quotas for the sale of forests, metals and other goods for Barter in exchange for products
And, speaking very briefly, it was like this: the agreements were concluded by God knows with which firms. The firms were completely fake, one -day. Licenses for the export of raw materials were issued by our St. Petersburg Committee on Foreign Economic Relations, that is, its leader Putin. He signed them either himself (rarely), or his deputy Anikin. They did not have the right to issue these licenses. And goods with these licenses went abroad. And food was not received. And did not come.
- How much was raw materials sold?
- It depends on the prices of raw materials. Another feature of these agreements was that prices were very underestimated in them. For example, for a rare -earth metal scandium. The experts that I turned to gave one digit. Later, the journalist of Vedomosti Vladimir Ivanidze found out another figure from other experts. According to them, the prices in the contract for rare -earth metals were underestimated not by tens, but hundreds of times. But Ivanidze was kicked out of Vedomosti at the same time as he wrote. He left the country ... By the way, at the first calculations, I missed the exported aluminum.
As for Scandia, the contract indicates the price of 72.6 dochmark. In reality, the price of the cheapest Scandium is $ 2,000 per kilogram, which is forty times higher than the price indicated in the contract. And in 1992, when this metal was exported, the price of metal powder Scandia was 372,000 dollars per kilogram. Hundreds of times higher. Scandia was taken out 7 kilograms ... So multiply! In general, these contracts were talking about millions, about tens of millions of dollars of profit. Not only Putin, but also Sobchak was engaged in this matter ...
When Yegor Gaidar realized that something incredible with this barter was happening in St. Petersburg, he reacted. And he realized because I informed Fedor Shkrudnev - at that time the acting
representative of the president in St. Petersburg; The then chairman of the Leningrad City Council, Alexander Belyaev, helped me a lot in this. We sent all our materials to Gaidar.Licenses for the export of raw materials were issued by our St. Petersburg Committee on Foreign Economic Relations, that is, Putin. And goods with these licenses went abroad. And food was not received.
And then Gaidar wrote a harsh paper , which said that only authorized ministries of foreign economic relations have the right to issue licenses for the export of raw materials abroad. In the North-Western Federal District, Pakhomov is such. Pakhomov came to me and said: "You just look, Marina Evgenievna, what is being done!" And at this moment, Sobchak draws up the protocol "On cooperation between the mayor of St. Petersburg and the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations of the Russian Federation" ( see photocopies of the first , second , third and fourth sheets - RS ).
Then Peter Aven, then the head of the IMPC, issues an order "On the status of the Commissioner of the Russian MVES in St. Petersburg." Pakhomova is removed. The Putin Committee of Foreign Economic Relations in the City Hall makes a double subordination committee and give him the right to sign licenses. Sobchak closed Putin with his chest. But one more point remains. The licenses already issued by Putin for the export of raw materials have not been confirmed. And then Sobchak writes a very cunning letter to Gaidar : “We have been allocated quotas for such and such raw materials. Such and such licenses have already been issued for it. However, the sending is delayed. If we are not going further, the city will be left without food, we will lose confidence in the population. I propose to continue to issue licenses.”
And Gaidar writes: I agree . To which the journalist Vladimir Ivanidze (not me, but Ivanidze!) Speaks as follows: either the signature on the Gaidar document is forged (which I do not exclude at all; the numbers on the documents are corrected several times, especially on the Avenovsky ...), or Gaidar led a double game. For me it was an absolute nonsense. On the one hand, Gaidar, as the Prime Minister, imposes a categorical ban on the issuance of licenses anyone other than the authorized MVES, on the other, agrees with this cunning, ambiguous letter of Sobchak.
In one of his last interviews, Sobchak says about me: "Because of Salier, because of all these delays there was no food in the city." Yes, not because of me. Food was not received, because there were no companies that had to put it.
- To whom were the companies registered?
- There are no famous people among them, except for one - Grigory Miroshnik. By that time, he had already managed to sit twice in prison, headed the company Interkocenter. He received a huge batch - 150 thousand tons of diesel fuel. Nes -blessed. And a contract was signed with him and a license was issued.
When our working group finished their work, a huge report was drawn up. He was submitted to the meeting of the Presidium. The Presidium approved him, and we sent him to the prosecutor's office. In the report, I did not insist on the responsibility of Sobchak, but only the head of the committee on the foreign economic relations of Putin. Otherwise, the presidium simply would not approve the report. They would not have gone against Sobchak.
The prosecutor’s office did not answer for a long time, then replied that she was calling for some secretary of the Lensovet Golubev in this case. Where does this Golubev? It is incomprehensible. Then I took this report to the head of the control department of the presidential administration, Yuri Boldyrev. I called him, and we immediately met. He acted very promptly. Firstly, he wrote a letter to Aven directly with me (dated March 31, 1992) :
"Dear Petr Olegovich! Materials from the deputies of the working group of the St. Petersburg City Council of People's Deputies, testifying to the possible need to remove the chairman of the City Hall of St. Petersburg Putin V.V. from the position of external relations of the Putin’s external relations from the occupied positions. In this regard, I ask you not to consider the issue of the appointment of Putin V.V. for any posts. Until the consideration of these materials by the control department. "
After that, Sobchak instantly appointed Putin to the authorized MVES in St. Petersburg, with double subordination. Sobchak at the same time said: "I will appoint him, unless he goes higher in Moscow." Here you go. Putin was appointed, and Boldyrev was removed. And he did not answer me. Sorry. That's the whole story. In the prosecutor’s office, the case remained not investigated. As you understand, a story with licenses, with food, tens of millions of dollars that people involved then earned then (I don’t know who; the people who did this) very tightly connected Sobchak and Putin. This is evident by all documents. Sobchak knew about all the details of this case. He
"Closed" Putin.Sobchak knew about all the details of this case. He "closed" Putin.
And the letter of Gaidar, in which he agreed with the Jesuit formulations of Sobchak, closed everything. Putin was allowed to issue licenses and legalized licenses issued earlier. The design of the licenses itself is below all criticism - there are no dates, on some seals, there are no signatures. What was not there - a lot of violations.
Thus, Sobchak closes Putin. And from this moment they are closely connected by these millions ... And then this "continent" ...
- What kind of "continent"?
We agree with her about the meeting, and she says that she cannot meet with us at this time, because she has negotiations for a very large amount and also with St. Petersburg people. We clung to it with a dead grip. We told her: "Food is us, no one else." We find out that it concludes a contract for 90 million German brands for 60,000 tons of meat.
- With whom?
- We do not know - with whom. I call Sobchak, I say that the calculations go through Vnesheconombank (we found out). Sobchak called and said that he had checked, and no amounts were received for Vnesheconombank. And here we will learn about the Continent company . The Continent company Valentin Pavlov, Prime Minister of the USSR, was once entrusted with the purchase of food and other goods for Leningrad. This meat entered Russia and went, bypassing Leningrad, to Moscow. And all this happened on the eve of the coup of the 91st year. Is it not the putsheists stored meat, so that as soon as they finish their affairs, throw the meat into the counter? One way or another, but you must admit, it is very strange that this very "continent" continued to purchase a gateway in 1992. Я написала запрос главному государственному инспектору РФ, начальнику Контрольного управления администрации президента Юрию Болдыреву. Ответа я на этот запрос не получила – Болдырева быстро сняли.
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Marina Salier: Why did I go to the village
Время шло, и Собчак, несмотря на все свое очарование (его дар оратора, дар нравиться, должна согласиться, бесспорны), не пользовался в городе популярностью. И только в самом центре и "самые интеллигенты", я бы сказала, поддерживали его. А в спальных районах он потерял свой рейтинг. И дело тут не в сопернике… Эта история с его квартирой, с уголовным делом… В один прекрасный день с помощью Путина Собчак улетел на самолете в Финляндию, а оттуда в Париж.
Ну, а как только Борис Николаевич отдал бразды правления Владимиру Владимировичу, Анатолий Александрович решил, что все теперь в порядке, он неподсуден и под защитой Владимира Владимировича... он может спокойно вернуться в Россию. Что и сделал, и был абсолютно не прав. Дело кончилось плохо. Я думаю, что вряд ли он умер своей смертью . Потому что все обстоятельства этой смерти были очень странными, и Людмила Борисовна на следующий день после его смерти сама высказала такое предположение. Правда, еще через день ей, наверное, хорошо объяснили все, что надо, и она отказалась от этой версии. Возможно, нужно было бы провести эксгумацию.
- Возвращаясь к докладу рабочей группы о деятельности Владимира Путина. Он был сделан в 1992 году, а начал широко цитироваться только в 2000 году. What is the reason?
- Да, действительно, его стали широко обсуждать только через 8 лет. Потому что до этого доклад никого не интересовал. В 1999 – 2000 году я уже жила в Москве (работала для Свободной демократической партии России - СвДПР) . И вот 30 декабря ко мне на работу пришел корреспондент НТВ Евгений Ревенко и стал задавать вопросы про этот доклад и про Путина, из чего я поняла - что-то не то происходит. СМИ давно мной не интересовались.
It was December 30. А 31-го Ельцин объявил о своем преемнике. Тут я поняла, в чем дело. А на НТВ из моего длинного интервью прозвучало 2-3 фразы. Энтэвэшник все добивался, чтобы я все сказала прямо. Но я понимала, что дело какое-то серьезное, и отвечала уклончиво. А потом я стала звездой мировой прессы. В течение января у меня перебывали представители ведущих СМИ всего мира. Кого только не было.
Убьют меня. Наташа очень боится
Путин в книге "От первого лица. Разговоры с Владимиром Путиным" (книга вышла в 2000 году. - РС ) написал такую фразу (почти цитирую): "Да в том то и дело, что не было никаких лицензий. Ну не было их" (" Лицензии мы не имели право давать. В том-то все и дело. Лицензии давали подразделения министерства внешнеэкономических связей. Это федеральная структура, не имевшая никакого отношения к администрации города". - РС ). А они все у меня в папке лежат...
Убьют меня. Наташа (сестра. - РС ) очень боится.
- Были прямые угрозы?
- No.
- Почему вы переехали?
- Я переехала из-за Юшенкова. Мы договорились с Юшенковым о встрече, это было в начале 2000 года. Мы, свободные демократы, хотели объединяться с ним. У нас были всегда очень хорошие отношения с Сергеем Николаевичем. И я увидела в его кабинете человека, которого я не хотела видеть никогда, нигде, ни при каких обстоятельствах. Я не назову вам этой фамилии. И тогда я поняла, что лучше уехать. А Сергей Николаевич вскоре был убит. С 2000 года я не давала интервью либо предупреждала журналистов: о Путине – ни слова. Я переехала сразу, а Наташа через несколько месяцев - нужно было доделать дела в Москве.
- Вы не хотели уехать за границу?
- No. Я человек своей страны. Я космополит, безусловно, но жить могу только в своей стране... Я рада моему виду на озеро гораздо больше, чем была бы рада такому креслу, в котором восседала Людмила Нарусова в фильме о Собчаке.
- В СМИ разошлась информация о телеграмме, якобы присланной вам на Новый 2001 год: "Желаю крепкого здоровья, а также возможности им пользоваться. В.В. Путин". Was it like that?
- No. Nothing of the kind. Наверное, если бы она пришла на мой официальный адрес в Петербурге, то мне бы сообщили. С Путиным лично мы встречались два или три раза. Два хорошо помню. Один раз присутствовала вся наша рабочая группа, куда Путин пришел со своей бумажонкой (справкой о выдаче квот на экспорт сырья. – РС ), а второй раз мы были вдвоем с Юрой Гладковым, моим заместителем. Юра уже умер. Когда в 2000 году у него пытались брать интервью, он категорически отказался.
- Why?
- Боялся. Мне он так и объяснил: "Нет, Марина Евгеньевна, я не могу".
- Почему именно Путин, по вашей версии, стал преемником?
- Трудно объяснить. Знаю только, что Собчак и Ельцин не любили друг друга…
Доминанта исполнительной власти была заложена именно при Собчаке . Ведь потом горсовет и меньше стал, и реже собирался…. И этот петербургский стиль, несомненно, повлиял на нынешнюю власть. Да и потом, из всех демократов, которые были в Петербурге, кроме Чубайса (можете убить меня за то, что я так говорю), кроме Чубайса, никто не попал.
Когда наш координационный совет обсуждал, поддерживать или нет Путина на выборах 2000 года, именно голос Чубайса "за" решил все. Гайдар, кстати, не голосовал. Я, Лев Пономарев, Константин Титов на рельсы ложились, чтобы его не поддерживали.
- Другие члены координационного совета знали о вашем отчете по поводу Путина ?
- Специально я об этом не говорила... Но, например, "Новая газета" к тому времени опубликовала статью Олега Лурье об этом.
И вот, благодаря Чубайсу, голосов "за Путина" хватило. Я тогда сказала: "Анатолий Борисович, мой лимит доверия к вам исчерпан". Теперь остается только злорадствовать: "я вам говорила". Я сразу поняла, что Путин – это надолго. Мне возражали – "ну, на два срока". Нет, я говорила – он что-нибудь придумает. Сегодня Медведев несамостоятелен, а Путин после Медведева вернется обратно на пост президента.
- Есть ли надежда на объединение оппозиции?
- I have no. Я вообще думаю, что Россия просто развалится на части.
- Тогда, в 1991-93 году, тоже была такая угроза.
- Но тогда был народ, который этому противостоял. А сейчас его нет, - сказала Марина Салье .
Эфирную версию интервью с Мариной Салье слушайте в программе Дмитрия Волчека "Итоги недели" в субботу 6 марта.
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Марина Салье родилась в 1934 году в Ленинграде. В 1941- 1942 гг. находилась в блокадном Ленинграде. По профессии геолог, доктор геолого-минералогических наук. С 1957 до 1990 года работала в Институте геологии и геохронологии докембрия АН СССР. Автор более ста научных работ по геологии.
С 1987 года Марина Салье - активист и лидер демократических организаций и движений. Была лидером Ленинградского народного фронта (1988 - 1990), лидером Межрегиональной ассоциации демократических организаций (1989 -1990). В 1990 году стала одним из инициаторов создания и идеологом Свободной демократической партии России (СвДПР), активно участвовала в движении "Демократическая Россия".
В 1990 - 1993 годах Марина Салье была избрана депутатом Ленинградского городского Совета и стала председателем комиссии по продовольствию. Одновременно в 1990 -1993 годах была народным депутатом России.
Марина Салье - автор книг "Мафрупция, мафрупция! Мафия и коррупция" (1994), "История Свободных демократов России" (2000) и других.