05 March 2010, 17:15 Politics

“I have more complaints about my president”

Interview with Burjanadze after her meeting with Putin

Ilya Azar One of the leaders of the Georgian opposition, Nino Burjanadze, told Gazeta.Ru why she met with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in Moscow. Burjanadze is not afraid of a negative reaction from his compatriots, considers it necessary to resume dialogue with Moscow and places full responsibility for the loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia on Mikheil Saakashvili.

— What impressions did you have from the meeting with Vladimir Putin ? What was the purpose of these negotiations?

— Russian-Georgian relations have actually reached a dead end. Now they are in a tragic situation, and we need to look for a way out of this situation. This does not benefit either Georgia or Russia. I am sure that for peace in the South Caucasus and Georgia it is necessary to look for options for resolving relations with Russia so that they are built on mutual trust and respect.

When there is no dialogue at the level of authorities, then you need to look for clues in order to at least see how to improve relations in the future.

Vladimir Vladimirovich and I had a very interesting meeting. He knows Caucasian issues very deeply.

We discussed the entire range of issues in Russian-Georgian relations and areas for their improvement. I saw an understanding of the problems that concern my people.

— Don’t all Georgians share the opinion that the Russian authorities in general and Putin in particular are aggressors and occupiers with whom one cannot have a conversation?

— What happened in August 2008 is a tangle and a very heavy burden both for Georgia and, in a certain sense, for Russia. Constantly going back to the past and calling each other different epithets is wrong.

The period when we did not listen to each other or did not want to hear when we spoke strong phrases did not lead to anything good. We need to make sure that painful problems are resolved, and not continue to intimidate each other.

— Official Tbilisi considers the main condition for resuming dialogue to be the complete withdrawal of troops from Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Don't you agree?

“Any negotiations that begin with any preconditions are doomed to failure. For me personally, within my country and abroad, the main thing is to make sure that we can find a common language with the Abkhazians and Ossetians, and that my homeland once again becomes united and indivisible. I will try to take consistent steps in this direction.

But I understand one thing perfectly: if we do not talk with Russia, then the problems of unifying Georgia will never be resolved.

Regarding the refusal to talk to Moscow before the withdrawal of troops, I can say that if the authorities do not talk to each other, not a single Russian soldier will leave Georgian territory. This is clear even to a baby.

— If you come to power, will diplomatic relations between Russia and Georgia be restored?

“It is precisely when relations are at their most difficult that diplomacy should work.” Where people try to hear each other, there the weapons of war are silent. I hope that the next reasonable government of Georgia, whoever comes to power, will understand that you need to respect others and force yourself to be respected. To force, naturally, not by force, but by reasonable decisions and approaches.

— Saakashvili is going to leave only in 2013, when his term of office expires. Have you discussed with Putin any specific steps to improve relations between countries in the next three years?

— We did not discuss Saakashvili’s departure, since this is an internal matter of Georgia. The Georgian people must decide for themselves when the president will leave and who will be his successor. It would be right if Russia and other countries do not interfere in this.

Until Saakashvili leaves, there is very little opportunity for a breakthrough in relations between Russia and Georgia. I will say frankly that I am once again convinced that as long as Saakashvili is in power, there will be no real progress.

I have never hidden the fact that Georgia needs early presidential elections. I have a negative attitude towards Saakashvili’s actions, especially in August 2008.

First of all, we need to return the Abkhazians and Ossetians, and only then talk about the territories.

If the opposition manages to gain the support of the people and achieve victory in early presidential elections, then we will immediately begin to solve the problems that have accumulated not only in relations between Russia and Georgia, but also in other areas.

— In Georgia, your visit to Moscow was also received ambiguously. It seems like one of the leaders of your party, Zurab Bigvava, has already left its ranks in protest.

“It seems to me that the Georgian authorities deliberately raised this topic. I emphasize that no one from the party, including Bigwava, left. There were disputes and disagreements about the timing of the visit and its consequences, but no one denied that it was possible and necessary to talk with Russia.

— It turns out that Putin is closer to you than Saakashvili?

— It is incorrect to pose the question of who is closer to me and who is further. This is politics, and questions are not asked here like that. My President has broken the fundamental promises he made to our people. He promised to build a democratic state, but destroyed almost all democratic principles.

Saakashvili destroyed the prospects for the development of our state. He promised to reunify Georgia and solve the problem of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but in the end he lost even more territory.

Saakashvili changed the map of our country, and the Georgian people will not forgive him for this.

— So you think that it was Saakashvili who changed the map of your country, and not Putin?

“Saakashvili was obliged to foresee what could follow his actions.

I demand that my president take into account the interests of my country. It would be wrong to demand that Putin and Medvedev take into account the interests of Georgia.

Yes, I can say that only in this case our relations will be civilized, but I cannot demand this. And I must, as a citizen and voter, demand from my president that he simply analyze what may follow his steps. Therefore, it is natural that I have more complaints about my president than anyone else.

— Have you discussed the possibility of canceling Russia’s decision to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia? Or some other options for a future solution to this problem.

“I am not going to talk about the details of the discussion of issues that, positively or negatively, may interfere with the continuation of negotiations. This meeting gave a definite impression that Russia understands the problems and would like to start a meaningful conversation. I believe that this is quite enough for reasonable Georgian politicians to begin communicating with their Russian colleagues.

—Aren’t you afraid that Georgian voters won’t understand your negotiations with Putin?

“I am sure that ordinary voters, when they receive real information, and not what reaches them through the prism of Saakashvili-controlled television, will correctly evaluate my step and respond positively to it. Now Saakashvili has zombified people, and there will be those who will criticize me, but this does not scare me.

— Has Putin offered you any support, for example, in the upcoming elections?

- No. There can be no talk of any support - neither from me nor from other politicians. I think that Russia understands that if it wants to have stable relations, then the President of Georgia must be elected without outside interference, no matter where it comes from.