At the Diaghilev Festival in Perm, the Diaghilev Prize was awarded for the best project in the field of performing arts. Established in 2003, the award has reached a new level: a representative international jury, seven European productions on the shortlist and €50 thousand to the winner. The 2012 prize was awarded to the director of the Manchester Festival, Alex Poots, for the play “The Life and Death of Marina Abramovic” by Robert Wilson and the general manager of the Warsaw “New Theater” Caroline Oshab for the play “Shakespeare’s African Tales” by Krzysztof Warlikowski (it will be shown in St. Petersburg on June 3). OLGA MANULVKINA spoke with the chairman of the jury, the intendant of the Teatro Real in Madrid, GERARD MORTIER.

— This year the award shortlist includes only European projects. Is this a sign of integration into the European context, the international significance of the award, or the lack of competitiveness of Russian projects?

- You see, this is the first time, and we always learn from mistakes. Next year we will have more jury members from Russia, better informed about what is happening here, and more Russian nominees. I'm sure there are Russian projects that could be on the list. But the Diaghilev Prize is an award not for the best production (because then I would have nominated “Ruslan and Lyudmila” by Dmitry Chernyakov, this is a great performance!), but for a production in the spirit of Diaghilev, involving the collaboration of musicians, painters, writers, choreographers. The nominations were very interesting, but not all of them corresponded to this spirit. We must develop clearer criteria and include more Russian participants in the jury, at least a third.

— Teodor Currentzis is leading a grandiose musical construction in Perm: a new unprecedented orchestra is emerging before our eyes, a new musical way of life that seems to be a utopia incarnate. This causes not only delight, but also protests, although this, of course, is in the spirit of Diaghilev. How do you see what's happening here?

“There are always a lot of difficulties at the beginning. I am sure that there were a lot of good things in Perm before and the Diaghilev Festival already existed. I see what Currentzis wants to achieve: to create an excellent, very professional orchestra. At the Bolshoi Theater he had to fight with some of the musicians, but he achieved fantastic performances - in Don Giovanni, in Wozzeck. MusicAeterna by Currentzis is an orchestra where there is no routine, where the orchestra members live for the sake of music. And they don’t earn as much, although more than local musicians. For a city like Perm, this can be a very positive development. Yesterday at the concert I was shocked by how enthusiastically the young audience reacted. The festival will certainly arouse international interest. But it will be difficult. Everything new is difficult. Stanislavski had to fight for his innovations.

— The battle for innovation in the Russian opera theater has been going on for many years, but passions are still heating up, as Chernyakov’s “Ruslan” shows.

“Of all the artistic forms, opera is the most traditional and is guided by the tastes of the public, which does not want to know anything about its time. But the situation in Russia, in my opinion, is not much different from the situation in New York, Madrid or London. The countries in which the opera house is more a part of intellectual life are Germany and France, and in France this happened largely thanks to Diaghilev. Russia is no exception; rather, here opera is understood traditionally - as opium for the people. Opera should not say anything about our time, only beautiful music and historical costumes. But this is completely wrong. Composers: Glinka, Mussorgsky - everyone spoke about their time. Sophocles used stories from thousands of years ago to tell stories about his time. “Ruslan and Lyudmila” is a Russian way of talking about our time. When politicians say that opera shouldn't talk about this, they are going against composers. But a negative reaction is better than when the audience is asleep, because part of the audience goes to the opera to be seen in public or to get a good night's sleep. A lot is changing in Russia, and this takes time. I brought Mahogany here and it ended up being a big success. Of course, some left the performance. The most beautiful girls with companions much older than themselves were always the first to leave the hall: they were shocked to see themselves, as if in a mirror. Chernyakov’s “Eugene Onegin” has already received recognition; in five years, I'm sure, "Ruslan" will be considered a classic.

“However, in Russia, it seems, this process has recently reached a new stage, state control over the opera house has increased. It’s time to remember that the opera received close attention from the authorities in 1936 and 1948.

- It has always been like this in Russia - both under the Tsar and after. When I staged “C(h)oeurs” with choruses from operas by Wagner and Verdi, a member of the Spanish government called me and told me that there would be no more subsidies for the theater. I said, OK, that's your problem, not mine. As long as I am here, I will do political theater - not about the political situation, but about society. The theater has always talked about this.

“But in Russia, a theater director cannot say: this is not my problem, whether it is the intervention of the government or the church.

“This is part of a broader problem - the power vested in the church. And not only here: in Spain the church is coming into force again. In his new book, Peter Sloterdijk talks about this as one of the greatest dangers in Europe today. Add to this bigotry: in a Good Friday sermon, one bishop said that a woman who has had an abortion will never sleep again in her life and that all homosexuals are prostitutes. And this is the church that is now seeking to justify itself from accusations of pedophilia! This church blames the theater! Incredible! They need to look at themselves, what they are doing in schools, and then we will talk again.

— What are your Wagner plans for 2013? No "Ring"?

- No, in the year of Wagner and Verdi I do not stage either one or the other. I just did Rienzi in Madrid, which hasn't been shown there since the 19th century. And with Wagner I will wait until 2014. In 2013, everyone will stage it; there won’t be enough singers for everyone. As for The Ring, it's so hard to make a good new production! For me, the only one who is capable of this is Dmitry Chernyakov, but he has many other plans. I really like Krzysztof Warlikowski, but this is psychological theater, with him we are premiering Monteverdi’s Poppea in June. I'll be back doing Tristan with Peter Sellars and Bill Viola, and I'm planning new productions of Lohengrin, Parsifal and Die Meistersinger.

— Wagner returned to Russia in the last decade, but baroque opera still remains a blank spot.

— I'm not a fan of baroque. In my opinion, too many baroque operas have been revived that are not great at all. Monteverdi is the pinnacle; without him there would be no opera. But with the exception of some masterpieces by Handel and Rameau... Why, for example, stage Cavalli and not modern opera? Of course, Callisto is a wonderful opera, but I would say that Ruslan is no less interesting. Vivaldi is good for singers, but I will never stage Vivaldi, just as I will not stage “The Pearl Fishers” by Bizet or “The Mute of Portici” by Auber. Much of baroque opera is interesting from the point of view of music, but not of theater. For me, this is the most reactionary type of theater: people go to it for the coloratura, for the sake of entertainment. Of course, if done well...

— You headed the Madrid Teatro Real instead of the New York City Opera. What do you think is happening in the New York opera scene right now?

“I thought it was very important that there were two opera houses in New York and that in the smaller theater one could argue with what was happening in the larger one. What did Peter Gelb do at the Met? He tried to invite new directors, whom he discovered together with me, many of them came to Salzburg - Robert Lepage, Chernyakov. The problem with New York is that it not only invites directors, but also creates circumstances in which they can be accepted by sponsors and by an audience that, in my opinion, is not very prepared for a new idea of opera. In addition, the huge mechanism of the Met - and this is a fantastic theater! - not the place where you can build a performance in detail. I told Chernyakov: keep in mind that the Met may not have the conditions that we are creating for you. Gelb had more success in the field of opera broadcasts than in theater renovations. Most directors become conservative at the Met. For example, Lepage's "Ring of the Nibelung" was not innovative. It was not Lepage who changed Met, but Met who changed Lepage, and this is a great danger. The success of broadcasting operas is good at first glance, but at second glance, the Metropolitan’s aesthetics are now being promoted throughout the world.

- Like Hollywood.

— Yes, so we need more auteur cinema in opera. The New York City Opera would have succeeded, but it is very typical that in New York there was not enough support for intellectual opera. Not much was needed - $60 million, the Metropolitan's budget was $240 million, but they found only $36 million. I ordered two new American operas for the New York City Opera; Now I will keep my word and stage them in Madrid. In January 2013, Philip Glass's True American about Walt Disney will premiere. In 2014 - “Brokeback Mountain” by Charles Vuorinen. This opera is a reflection on love between two people, no matter what gender, but impossible love, like Tristan and Isolde. So I put them side by side in the program. This is a wonderful libretto, a tragic story, a great opera. And we will send an invitation to the Orthodox Church to the premiere.

“In Russia, opera is understood as the opium of the people”