12.10.2012, 18:23:25

Zaza Burchuladze. Photo by arili2.blogspot.com

We're in the middle of nowhere

Georgian writer Zaza Burchuladze told Lenta.ru about the disadvantages of Saakashvili

A few days ago, contemporary Georgian writer Zaza Burchuladze was severely beaten in the center of Tbilisi. He became the first writer from Georgia to be translated into Russian after the collapse of the USSR. Three of his novels have already been published in Russia: “Mineral Jazz”, “Adibas” and “Soluble Kafka”. In the latter he challenged modern Georgian culture and politics; Burchuladze criticizes both culture and politics for being patriarchal. After the release of Kafka, in which the writer allowed himself a careless phrase about the patriarch, Burchuladze was repeatedly threatened. In an interview with Lenta.ru, he said that the Georgian church was “rotten from the inside,” and said that in a country where 80 percent of the inhabitants are Orthodox fundamentalists, “it’s very difficult to live.”

Burchuladze not only opposes the church, but is also a long-time and consistent critic of the country's president, Mikheil Saakashvili . Last year the writer spoke at a creative evening in Kutaisi. He really didn’t like the speeches of his fellow writers, so he declared from the stage that “Georgians don’t need to read” - and he’d rather give everyone a massage. At the end, Burchuladze shouted the well-known phrase of thieves in law: “Life is for thieves, death for bitches.” Unexpectedly, Saakashivili said that Burchuladze’s statement offended him and he would have put him in prison if Georgia were not a democratic state. As a result, Saakashvili had to apologize to the writer. The president, who recently lost parliamentary elections to businessman Bidzina Ivanishvili , according to the writer, “started out great, but ended badly.”

Burchuladze is generally dissatisfied with many things in modern Georgian society: in particular, Orthodox fundamentalism, the lack of freedom of speech in politics, and also the fact that there is no modern graffiti on the streets.

"Lenta.ru": Did you expect Saakashvili to lose the elections? Is the reason solely due to the prison scandal ?

Protest in Tbilisi against the abuse of prisoners in prison. Photo (c) AFP

Zaza Burchuladze : Yes, I expected it, and not only because of the prison. I thought that Saakashvili’s very ideas and system had collapsed. For example, his idea that we are pro-American people. It was all a balloon that released air. It was a complete fuck-up, and the fuck-up just stopped working.

Saakashvili himself inflated the concept of freedom so much that, I think, not only the people no longer believed in these words, but Saakashvili himself stopped believing in them. When Saakashvili came to power, he buzzed all his ears that Georgians were the wisest people. I think he himself did not believe in these words. The people quickly lost faith that Russia is our enemy, that the Americans will always and everywhere help us. The main thing is that he did not believe that freedom is the way Saakashvili painted it.

Why didn’t the people believe that Russia was an enemy if it invaded Georgian territory?

I think that this was Saakashvili’s program, a provocation to hook Putin in order to receive some dividends from the Americans. He wanted to show the whole world that Georgia was a victim, and he wanted to sell his personality and his system at a higher price. Because of this, he began to stir up conflict.

Is the Russia-America axis the main thing? Saakashvili somehow modernized Georgia.

We often destroy the old and build a new one. New is not always the best, and old buildings that are of cultural value are destroyed. My friends and I organized protests in winter to preserve Gudiashvili Square, where several excellent buildings from the late 19th century began to be destroyed. They wanted to build new buildings there, similar to the old ones, that is, fake, without face and spirit, where the nouveau riche and bourgeois were going to live.

You will say that new buildings have appeared in the city, the streets have been repaired, the lights are on, people are not being killed, as was the case in the 90s. But the main value is not asphalt, but people. People were fucked in prisons.

Well, haven't they been fucked before?

Of course, they fucked, but you can’t speculate only on renovated streets in the 21st century. Because the streets have been repaired, I shouldn't get fucked. In addition, the system did all this for those people who were in the system itself. There are places on the curbs where you can park a car, but no one thinks about the rights of pedestrians. That is, all the comfort is for those who have money, but for the poor - zero, nothing.

This is a fairly minor complaint.

UND supporters. Photo (c) AFP

Yes, let's move on. If you are not for the national movement ( Saakashvili’s party - note by Lenta.ru ), then you will not be able to find a job. There was not a single TV channel without Saakashvili’s propaganda - they appeared only a few months ago, there was no independent court.

But your books are published?

And what? And who reads books now? Very few people. It’s not a problem for me to be published, but it doesn’t change anything. Those artists who create pop music received big dividends from Saakashvili personally and from the system so that they do what they do. Those who did not play along with the system received absolutely nothing. For example, literary periodicals ceased to exist. It was very difficult to survive, and, except for a few enthusiasts, everyone either stopped writing, painting and composing music, or left the country.

The writer has ceased to be the voice of the people. That’s when I expressed this catchphrase - “Life for thieves and death for bitches,” it worked with lightning speed. No one has been able to forget this phrase for three years now.

I just wanted to ask you about her. What does it mean and why did you say it?

This is the catchphrase of all Georgian thieves. The chronotope where I said this is important here. I said this at a creative evening in Kutaisi - in the city where thieves were minted in the Soviet Union. This is where ours comes from - or yours? - Tariel Oniani and other such dudes.

Saakashvili did not like this, because he was selling his system in which he fucked these thieves in law. I accidentally hit the mark. As I know, his own ministers reprimanded him, saying he shouldn’t have answered me like that, and two weeks later he apologized live. For me, the main thing is that this system absolutely excluded freedom of speech, excluded the artist as such.

Looking from Russia, it is difficult to understand that everything is so bad with freedom in Georgia. Rather, on the contrary, for many it is an example of democracy in the vastness of the former USSR.

It is clear that democracy is not about sucking a lollipop, but it is also not about raping those arrested with sticks. There was constant non-stop propaganda, a very large budget was spent on growing vegetables - unprincipled, weak-willed, voiceless creatures. You just had to live here and see it from the inside. Only entertainment and information programs remained on television. After the Rose Revolution, smart conversations on the TV system were no longer needed. According to Saakashvili, the people needed entertainment, a masquerade.

But hasn't Georgia become a fashionable country?

Fashionable does not mean correct or good. For example, Coelho is fashionable. But is this quality?

Georgia has a lot to offer in terms of quality.

Khachapuri?

Khinkali.

Borjomi...

Churches, wine, sea.

Sea - yes. But the Georgian church is a system that is rotten from the inside. And yet, when 80 percent of the country’s inhabitants are Orthodox fundamentalists, it is very scary for a free person to live in such a space. And most importantly, this society is radicalizing day by day. For example, recently in Batumi, inscriptions appeared on the walls of residential buildings: “Turks, get out of here!” The Orthodox Church in Georgia has everything under control. Our priests, like fighting dogs, have a stranglehold on the minds of citizens. Because of your statements about the church, you may have bad luck on the street. If you say anything about the patriarch, someone could easily beat you up. When I wrote about the patriarch's breasts in my novel Soluble Kafka, I had problems. They started swearing at me on the streets.

Drivers have icons in taxis, ministers have icons in their offices, everyone crosses themselves at every step. People fast almost all year round. This is some kind of collective hallucinosis. I teach a course at the Caucasian Media School with the symptomatic name “pop mechanics”. Among young people I come across wild and stupid believers. It is difficult to communicate with them - not only freedom of speech, but also freedom of body is closed to them. How we reproduce is a question for me.

You touched on the topic of religion. What do you think would happen to Pussy Riot in Georgia?

Sameba Church in Tbilisi. Photo (c) AFP

For example, I wanted to make an inscription on the main church of Georgia, Sameba. There is a phrase “God is with us”, and I wanted to make it “God stinks with us” by adding one letter. In the Georgian language there is a play on words. But I couldn’t do this alone, because the churches are wildly guarded. I needed someone to simply stop anyone who would try to stop me. I never found a single person, and then I wrote an article with the title “God Stinks Here.”

It is symptomatic that not a single graffiti artist has appeared in Georgia. For me, the very idea of a museum has ceased to work in the sense in which we are accustomed to perceive it. The exhibition hall should be built on the walls of houses. Even in Yerevan, where I was recently, citizens discovered a new exhibition hall - almost all the arches in the city were painted. A surprise for me were the huge portraits of Edgar Allan Poe, Frida Kahlo, Hemingway.

About four months ago I saw a huge graffiti on Kostava Street in Tbilisi - a pink muzzle of a pig. On her head she had a police cap, and above it was the inscription "Police". I was sure that it would be erased, I took it on my mobile phone and quickly went home to get my camera. 40 minutes later, when I returned, the “Police” sign had already been erased.

But when Channel 9 [of billionaire Bidzina Ivanishvili ] opened, I was invited there on the very first day. I knew that Saakashvili would definitely be watching the channel, and I said live that it was ridiculous to be afraid of such a picture. He talked about Banksy and how he is treated in England. Believe it or not, but the next morning the sign “Police” appeared on Kostava again, and for the third month no one has erased it.

So what would happen to Pussy Riot?

Not hard to guess. For example, recently an unknown person attacked me on Rustaveli Avenue - he began to scold me and threaten me. As he said, because of my book. “How could you write something like that,” he said about “Instant Kafka.” I thought about talking some sense into him, but ended up with a concussion and a black eye.

Is Russia or America closer to you?

I can't answer this question. And among the Americans there are scoundrels, and among the Russians, and among the Georgians - they are everywhere. I have friends in Moscow, and I value these acquaintances very much. I cannot say that I hate Russia because it attacked Georgia. But I can’t say that I love Russia just because of a few people in Moscow. I also cannot say that I love Georgia simply because I am Georgian. But it’s too bad that I can’t go to Russia. They won’t issue me a visa - Russian government workers demand a bribe of $1,200.

But they don’t take bribes from Saakashvili.

Yes, the traffic cop doesn’t ask for money - so what? Someone who has his own business gets a call from the prosecutor's office asking him to come see them. He comes, and there they say - pay so and so. When the election campaign took place, there was not a single opposition billboard in Tbilisi. And the owners of the areas paid for those billboards that were advertising Saakashvili’s party. There was a direct racket working here. This is fine? If you have a company and you are not a supporter of the authorities, you could simply be sent to prison.

Do you think something will change for the better under Ivanishvili?

I'd like to, but I can't guarantee. The main thing is that people voted for something new. For me, every politician is a crime, and for me they all look the same. Ivanishvili, Saakashvili...

If you look at Saakashvili as a character in a novel or play, then maybe there is something attractive about him. He is an adventurer by nature, makes mountains out of molehills and blows smoke into his eyes. Let's see how he manifests himself in a new form.

Saakashvili and Ivanishvili. Photo RIA Novosti

But what about connections with authorities, which Ivanishvili is accused of?

Saakashvili accused many people of various wrong things, and often this was not true. I do not welcome any thieves in law and think that this is an anachronism. In any case, the fight against the same thieves in law using Saakashvili’s methods is unacceptable. If Saakashvili had made major investments in schools and education, as he promised during his first inauguration, this simply would not have happened. But he appointed Dmitry Shashkin as Minister of Education, who introduced something like zone guards in schools. That is, he directly said that he wants to control thoughts and that lack of freedom begins from the desk in the first grade. Big brother is watching you.

Was it better in the 90s or under Saakashvili?

Of course, under Saakashvili, but the main point is that under Shevardnadze there was freedom of speech, although there was no electricity, no gas, no police. Then the police were outright criminals and could simply come to your apartment, take you away, beat you, and demand money. At one time they also accepted me and took away my money. Under Saakashvili there was peace, but it was a terrible peace. As Brecht says in “The Caucasian Chalk Circle”: “The war is over! Fear peace!”

Is freedom of speech more important than safety and comfort?

Certainly. In general, human freedom is above all. Saakashvili started out great, but ended badly. Perhaps the inertia of the people pushed them towards authoritarianism. If people were on their guard, Saakashvili himself would not believe that he is the messiah, that he is irreplaceable.

Messiahs and irreplaceables do not leave on their own. And he lost and admitted it.

This is a plus in his favor. After all, he could have arranged some provocations, but he didn’t. Maybe this is how he preserved his face and his very idea. If his idea is right, then we will be convinced of it very soon. It is somehow dishonest to talk about Saakashvili in the past tense. If his comrades and supporters really wanted to carry out some idea, then let them work for another four years and prove that they were right. The main game starts now. Saakashvili lost the previous game.

What are the prospects for Georgia in general? Where should she go?

I liked Ivanishvili’s words that Saakashvili had a fixed idea that Georgia should play in the major league, but in fact such a small country has no place there. We must play regionally. Maybe this is a more sober approach.

By competing with Russia, we showed the world that we exist. We may be few in number, but we are brave. Maybe it is precisely because of Saakashvili that Georgia is a fashionable country in Russia. If nothing had changed in 2004 and Shevardnadze would still have ruled the country, then things would have been much worse and, perhaps, we would have been left without territories at all.

Saakashvili lost them himself. How important is this to you?

We must apologize to these peoples and give them freedom. This is an unpopular decision, but I would recognize the independence of these states. They don’t want to live on the territory of Georgia - the flag is in their hands. Every minute reminder to me at every step that Abkhazia is my pain, that we will return South Ossetia, no longer works.

Have you thought about emigrating?

Living without people dear to me is somehow tasteless. If I had the opportunity, I would live half the year in my favorite city Berlin, and half the year in Tbilisi. If the question had been put bluntly - either-or, I might have chosen Berlin. Many in Georgia are trying to lick the ass of the authorities and become court artists. Many succeed, but those who fail live in poverty. I was lucky to survive between these two positions.

Can Georgia be called a European country? Or is it still Asia?

When a Georgian leaving the country is asked where he is going, he often answers that he is going to Europe. Please note that not to any specific city, but to Europe. No matter how much we say that we are a pro-European people, Europe itself is very far from us. But Asia is not too close either, so we are in the middle of Europe and Asia, we are in the middle of nowhere.

Interviewed by Ilya Azar (Tbilisi - Moscow)

We're in the middle of nowhere

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