The head of Roskomnadzor on the new functions of his department

Since November 1, when the register of prohibited sites was launched in Russia, more than 300 entries have been included in it, and complaints about illegal content on the Internet continue to arrive - by yesterday there were almost 13 thousand. The head of the Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Information Technologies and mass communications (Roskomnadzor) ALEXANDER ZHAROV explained to Kommersant that the information space should have its own rules of the road.

— Your work as head of Roskomnadzor coincided with the beginning of the campaign to regulate the Internet. First of all, we are talking about the law “On the Protection of Children from Harmful Information,” which from the very beginning was dubbed the law “on blacklists of sites.” Did you expect such a reaction?

— The main thing is that no one in our department is involved in regulating the Internet or plans to. When the Child Protection Act came into force regarding media labeling, remember what the forecasts were? "Wait for it!" will be banned, “Anna Karenina” and so on. We discussed everything with the industry and agreed that during the first two months we will meet regularly and discuss the nuances of enforcement of the new law. There were no media outlets that maliciously did not want to apply the law. There was some misunderstanding about exactly how products should be labeled. Having held two councils on mass communications, it seems to me that we have relieved this tension and passed the first stage very smoothly. So far I like everything. It’s the same with the registry of banned sites—it’s a startup. Some people are scared because it’s new, but fear has big eyes. But I believe that the one who walks will master the road. During the six months that I have been working, now into the seventh month, there was no reason to believe that Roskomnadzor was engaged in censorship. I think that Roskomnadzor will not give reasons for such reasoning in the future.

- How else can you call the situation with a number of popular resources getting into the register of prohibited sites - “Lurkomorya”, “Librusek”, “Rutreker”, finally?

— The popularity of a resource is not a reason for it to contain illegal content. We have no intention of blocking anyone completely. On the contrary, we expect, and not without reason, that in the end a minimum number of truly unscrupulous resources will reach the stage of inclusion in the IP address registry. Dialogue is very important here. By the way, all of the named resources were excluded from the registry because their owners quickly responded and removed the harmful information. The same Wikipedia, when the law was adopted, organized a protest. After that, she and I had a situation regarding a specific page on which, in the opinion of the citizens who contacted us, there was illegal information. We contacted Wikipedia, and within 12 hours the information was deleted, and it was not even included in the register. This situation is a beacon for resource owners to look at the situation a little differently. There are traffic rules on the streets, everyone knows them and follows them. The same is true in the information space. We conducted a public opinion poll: more than 80% of citizens have heard about this law, support it and are beginning to respond to it. It seems to me that this is a movement towards civil society.

— Citizens, as opinion polls show, are in principle in favor of censorship, and when it comes to choosing between protecting the morality of children and protecting civil rights, they clearly choose the first. Did the authorities respond to this request?

— Regarding child pornography, most countries have mechanisms similar to ours. I can honestly tell you, in good faith, I didn’t receive any commands like “get ready, we’ll give you a club, you’ll knock everyone on the head there.” I am sure that as soon as an idea is embodied in law, it finds itself under the magnifying glass of public opinion. And censorship is prohibited by the Constitution.

— When the rule on blacklists was only in the process of being developed, legislators excluded from it the right of Roskomnadzor to block “any information prohibited in the Russian Federation,” for example, extremist information. Has the effectiveness of the law been affected by this?

— With regard to the network, clear definitions are very important. It is clear that child pornography is evil. Drugs and calls for suicide too. Other formulations leave room for interpretation, it becomes uncomfortable for us to work, and there are many reasons for criticism. Moreover, we discussed this topic for a long time and came to an opinion on how to deal with the register of extremist sites, which is kept by the Ministry of Justice. We decided: when the court decides that a particular resource is extremist, we will block it. But in order not to discredit our work and not to confuse the political component (that which concerns extremism) and the moral and ethical component (that which concerns child pornography, drugs and suicide), we will not combine these registries. The current legislation on countering extremism and the law “On Mass Media” are quite sufficient to prevent the dissemination of clearly negative information.

— By the way, previously the leadership of Roskomnadzor announced the creation of some kind of automatic system for searching for extremist content on the Internet. What's wrong with her now?

— Even before my arrival, a contract was signed with the Data Center organization, which completed its work, but Roskomnadzor was not satisfied with the result of this work. A conflict has arisen, since the Data Center believes that they did everything well, and through the court demands to pay the remaining amount. Now the court has ordered an examination of the effectiveness of the information system that was created.

— Is the creation of such a system still relevant?

— Together with a number of organizations, we are now developing a system for monitoring content not on the Internet, but in electronic media. First of all, from the point of view of compliance with their licensing conditions. For example, in terms of the ratio of programs of the federal partner and the regional broadcaster, the amount of advertising... But there is also the issue of countering extremism: in this system certain software will be introduced that monitors the possibility of extremist content appearing there using keywords. The pilot product will appear just in mid-November, and if it is approved, then by mid-2014 it will operate in cities with a population of more than 100 thousand people. This will affect all channels that broadcast on air, via cable, and via satellite. As for the Internet, I have not yet seen an effective network monitoring system, although I have been quite actively interested in this for the last five years. It should not hang in the air, but should be clearly tied to our powers. If we see such a system, it is clear that we will think about the possibilities of its use.

— When the film “The Innocence of Muslims” appeared on the Internet, even before the court’s decision to recognize it as extremist, you demanded that providers block access to it.

“This film was a new experience both for us and for the world. The appearance of this trailer on YouTube led to great unrest, and in some countries even loss of life. We have a multi-religious country, so we supported the call of the prosecutor's office. But we did not oblige anyone, but only tried to appeal to the wisdom of telecom operators in order to preventively limit the dissemination of this information before a court decision, so as not to provoke what happened in other countries. The example was vivid. Most of us listened. Someone said that they would wait for the court's decision. We did not apply any other pressure. It was the good will of telecom operators and hosting providers. And the good will of Roskomnadzor. If you noticed, the other day information appeared that the Moscow prosecutor’s office asked us to block the resource with the “manifesto” of Dmitry Vinogradov, who shot seven people. Obviously, we cannot block it pre-trial. So there was no talk of any kind of censorship, and no one is going to extend this mechanism to other resources.

— Meanwhile, after the “Innocence of Muslims” story, YouTube was completely blocked in Chechnya, and it has not yet resumed work. Are these actions within the law?

— The telecom operator blocked access to a certain resource, but did not block access to the Internet. Roskomnadzor has no legitimate grounds to order the telecom operator. This issue is in the judicial sphere. Another question is that YouTube has been blocked for more than one day, and the population is not saying anything about it. Here we have no reason to do anything: the legislation does not provide for actions of the supervisory authority in relation to the telecom operator if it has made its own decision to block a certain resource.

— On October 25, a temporary procedure for interaction between the operator of the registry of prohibited sites and telecom operators appeared on the Roskomnadzor website. When will the regulations for the interaction of the blacklist registry operator with telecom operators be ready? What else needs to be written down?

— The final regulations will be released by the end of the year. Questions are already arising about how to inform hosting providers about a new entry being made to the registry, and what part of the information needs to be deleted. Not always the entire resource is illegal. It may contain a photograph that is contrary to the law, some kind of link, etc. Telecom operators must inform us that they have blocked the resource and how they blocked it. The law does not clearly state how we should monitor its implementation. We do not want to create an unnecessary burden on businesses and carry out endless scheduled and unscheduled inspections.

— Roskomnadzor received a software and hardware system that allows it to receive and process messages about sites containing dangerous content from the Safe Internet League. Will you engage a third party to maintain the registry of prohibited sites?

“They really gave us software, for which we are grateful. They developed an open part of the system, which includes the resource zapret-info.gov.ru. They modified it to our order, created personal accounts for the Federal Drug Control Service (FSKN), Rospotrebnadzor and gave us this software. We combined it with our closed part and are now working with it. Obviously, Roskomnadzor needs to dive deep enough into this system and work out all the nuances of interaction with both telecom operators and hosting providers themselves. Next, we will decide whether we need someone else or whether we will make do with the services of our subordinate enterprises. After that, I will decide whether we need an operator, and if we do, we will choose him. In the first days, when there were thousands of requests, it was very difficult for us to work. And now we have reached approximately 200–300 requests per day. I think that with such a number, maybe we can do without a registry operator.

— Who conducts the examination anyway?

— Now it works according to a three-stage scheme. A citizen writes that some resource contains illegal information. At the first stage, the analyst checks which category the information belongs to and whether it is spam. Then the material goes to the expert, his decision is the basis for inclusion in the register. If we are talking about suicide, contact Rospotrebnadzor. As far as I know, he works with the Institute of Child Psychiatry. If it is related to drugs, go to the Federal Drug Control Service, they have their own experts. And for the examination of child pornography, we also use employees of our State Unitary Enterprise “Informregister”. Agree that the work is not the most pleasant, right? And people do not do this for money, this is a completely different motivation: people consciously fight this evil. But the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications, realizing that the problem exists, will allocate funds to pay our experts starting in 2013. It is clear that two people cannot do this: they can go crazy, they need to somehow psychologically at least rest. That is, in our understanding, we should ideally reach a group of about 10–12 people, so that they have time to simply get distracted. And we agreed with the Faculty of Psychology of Moscow State University that they would conduct a special course for them.

— That is, the staff will be increased?

— We are talking about optimization of work. According to the administrative reform, we must cut 385 people by April 1, 2013, which is quite a lot. To prevent the workload on people from growing, we are not just mechanically reducing some reserve staff positions, but are improving the entire structure of the service. For example, it was decided to raise legal support, finance, and procurement to the level of federal districts, and leave only supervisory activities at the level of territorial departments. The functionality of the subordinate structures - “Radio Frequency Center” and “Informregister” - will change. There are plans to create an automated control system, with the help of which the status of all communications and electronic media will be visible online. This will automate the process and create conditions for Roskomnadzor employees to work exactly like inspectors.

— Will you take action against those who are trying to somehow overcome the prohibitions? The Pirate Party launched the Roskomsvoboda project, where it publishes working links to prohibited sites.

— Due to the nature of my activity, I have no contact with parties, registered or not, and I don’t want to give unnecessary advertising to any of them. But on November 1st we had two serious DDOS attacks. Anonymous stated that due to censorship in the “ru” zone they would attack. And there were attacks. Due to the fact that they are kind people and stated in advance, we were preparing for this. The resource went down several times during the first two days for 15–25 minutes. That is, there is a risk, there are people for whom this is one of the meanings of life.

“It is precisely to prevent such attacks on government agencies that Senator Ruslan Gattarov is actively promoting the idea of a cybersecurity strategy for the Russian Federation. Is this a current idea?

— A cybersecurity strategy is undoubtedly needed. This issue is being dealt with by both the Security Council and other competent authorities. The cyber threat exists on different scales - for countries, for commercial companies and for specific people, citizens. Here, Ombudsman Lukin’s website was hacked by hackers from Pakistan - yes, this is also an attack. Many developed democracies take cybersecurity issues seriously and create appropriate units that are responsible for these issues. In this case, Senator Gattarov’s initiative is in the mainstream. This matter needs to be dealt with. And we take a certain part in this process in certain working groups (I will say it carefully). I can’t say more because it’s a specific topic.

— Recently, the Ministry of Economic Development sent its proposals to the government regarding ensuring a safe Internet and proposed, among other things, the fight against intellectual property violations, in particular with file hosting services. What do you think can be done about this problem?

“I support the initiative, but the method of implementation definitely needs to be discussed, since a universal recipe does not yet exist anywhere in the world. Companies that produce films and audio content have spent money on this, obviously counting on the fact that this money will at least be returned to them, and that intellectual work will be paid for. The existence of free file hosting services and torrents, which collect and distribute information in fragments over the network, creates a significant threat in this direction. The problem is not domestic, it is a global problem, since, as is known, many large networks that traded music discs, including world giants, began, if not going bankrupt, then to find themselves in a threatening economic situation due to the functioning of torrents. There is no final solution, because technical limitations can be circumvented. In some countries, the option of introducing criminal and administrative liability is used. By the way, with regard to personal data, we are now finalizing the approval of a bill to significantly increase fines in case of violation of the rules for the dissemination of this data by an organization that is an operator of personal data. It seems to me that economic sanctions should also be applied to file hosting services and torrents.

— You talked about the need to follow the “rules of the road” in the information space. What do you think about their legislative implementation? Deputy Robert Schlegel has already proposed creating a law on comprehensive regulation of the Internet, which would spell out the rights and responsibilities of all participants, including users.

— It is impossible to regulate the Internet in all its manifestations. And it's not necessary. This will only slow down its development. Ultimately, according to a study done by the Higher School of Economics, the Runet already generates 1% of GDP today. It is absolutely wrong to slow down the development of the Internet as an economy. On the other hand, there must be rules of conduct online. It seems to me that most of the issues here need to be resolved not at the level of legislation, but through self-regulation.

— Several initiatives have already been announced to combat anonymity on the Internet, at least on social networks. Is such a mechanism necessary, and in general, is this idea technically feasible?

— The idea is feasible, whether it is necessary or not is another matter. Somewhere anonymity on the Internet is needed. Not all people are ready to talk openly and give their first and last name. In some places, especially with regard to the prevention of extremism, terrorism, etc., anonymity may probably be associated with threats to public safety. To some extent, we need to work with telecom operators and hosting providers, but to what extent, according to what rules, I am not ready to answer now. While there is an idea that is not clothed in any specific form. But I hope that we will be invited to discuss this topic.

— By the way, for almost a year there was no specialized committee on information policy in the State Duma. Did this somehow affect the effectiveness of cooperation with legislators?

- We are not engaged in lawmaking. According to the latest initiatives with Elena Mizulina and Sergei Zheleznyak (co-authors of the law on the blacklist of sites - Kommersant ), we have constant contact, and we hear each other. The appearance of a specialized committee is a positive moment; it is clear where to turn if any initiatives concerning our sphere arise.

— Have you already discussed possible areas of work with the new head of the committee, Alexei Mitrofanov?

— In his new incarnation, I came across Alexei Mitrofanov at a plenary meeting of the Congress of the National Association of Television Broadcasters, dedicated to digital television. We did not have a personal meeting. And there he said interesting things. Not populist - concrete. Mitrofanov said that he does not see a crisis or collapse for regional broadcasters, since there are a sufficient number of means of distributing content: satellite, Internet television. When I was still working on this topic at the ministry, regional broadcasters complained that there was no place for them in digital. 90% of regional broadcasters broadcast from one to five hours a day, and the rest is from their federal partner. In digital, when distribution will go throughout the country, in the second multiplex, it is more interesting from a business point of view for the federal broadcaster to distribute itself without a regional partner, since it will receive all the advertising money itself. At various meetings I expressed my position that regional broadcasters need to clearly define their development strategy. Who are they: a production company that produces regional content and sells it to federal broadcasters, or they unite in a consortium in order to produce 24 hours instead of five hours of television production. And the third multiplex will be built primarily for regional broadcasters, because it is less expensive in terms of payment for communication services. It will be built on a regional basis.

— TV broadcasters say that participation in the second digital multiplex is possible for a maximum of four large commercial channels - STS, TNT, Muz TV and REN TV. Do you accept the possibility that there will not be a sufficient number of applications for the ten seats in the multiplex up for grabs?

— Let’s not try to predict what will happen at the competition. Previously, in order to participate in the competition, there was a restriction that the channel must have broadcast in five or more constituent entities of the Russian Federation. We have removed this definition, that is, any niche channels that today are distributed only via cable or satellite, but already have a large number of viewers, can also participate. I don’t want to name anyone by name, but my prediction is that not only broadcast channels will come to the competition, that the competition will take place and that all ten places will be filled. I have been involved in this both at the ministry and here, and I know that from 15 to 19 television broadcasters intend to participate. Business must play the long game. On July 17, 2015, the rules of the International Telecommunication Union come into force, according to which analogue frequencies are no longer taken into account. In the 300-kilometer zone from the border of the Russian Federation, which includes Kaliningrad, St. Petersburg and a number of other large cities, by this time the “digital” should already be 100% built and accepted by the population. In the remaining territory of the country, it will still take about two years for broadcasting to switch completely to digital format. The moment this happens, having a digital broadcast license will be a competitive advantage.

— According to TV broadcasters, the transition to digital may not be relevant as early as 2015: the penetration of most TV channels via cable and satellite already reaches approximately 80% or more. And by 2015, the media environment itself may change dramatically - other, more advanced communications technologies, such as LTE, will become available. In your opinion, is it possible and justified to revise the Federal Target Program for the digitalization of TV?

— Like any federal target program, it can be adjusted. But to revise it radically is absolutely wrong. In Russia, broadcasting is traditionally free. Digital broadcasting will also be free for the consumer. That is, this will be the only free television in the country. Moreover, this is one of the elements of the normal daily life of our people and a guarantee of a unified information space in the country. Satellite broadcasting does not contain duplicates, and therefore in Vladivostok, every time instead of “Good morning”, hearing “Good night” is probably annoying. And only large cities are covered by cable. It does not reach places where there is not a sufficient subscriber base, where the population is less than 50–100 thousand people. As for LTE, this will also not be a cheap service. But we must not forget: a network of antenna mast structures for digital television throughout the country in the future can be the basis for communications infrastructure and other formats.

— What is the reason for the competition announced on December 14, in which 37 regional radio frequencies will be awarded for round-the-clock sports broadcasting? How fair are market participants’ assumptions that the competition is being held specifically for the “European Media Group”?

— I think that market participants are simply analyzing that the current owners of EMG are the only Russian company that has sports radio. It is also clear why such a competition will be held. The Olympics in Sochi 2014 and the Universiade in Kazan 2013, a number of world-class championships require appropriate coverage. Obviously, FM radio for people, especially in big cities and metropolitan areas, who spend a certain number of hours in cars, is one of the issues in solving the problem of access to sports information. I very much doubt the economic benefits of this project. This is an expensive project. In fact, in a year you need to build a broadcast network in 37 major cities - that's it. According to initial estimates, it will cost from 500 million to 600 million rubles. You need to acquire the rights to sports competitions - that's two things. And this is also a considerable expense: sports content is expensive. Finally, we need to create editorial offices in the regions—that’s three. The project is definitely expensive. Its payback period, it seems to me, is quite long, because the advertising pie in radio is growing more slowly, it is in second place after print media. Therefore, I would first of all like to wish good luck to the broadcaster who wins the competition, and not to congratulate him. Whether it’s the “European Media Group” or someone else, let’s wait until the 20th of November. So far, no applications have been received for this competition. The fact that this competition is being tailored to a specific broadcaster is a bold statement. It’s necessary to take the broadcaster and say: well, dear, go to the competition and spend a lot of money. A difficult project, really difficult. In addition to what I said, and even before you still need to pay more than 57 million rubles. So this is a really socially demanded, but very costly project, and the money spent on it will not return so quickly.

- Since November 10, 2012, the founders of radio channels cannot be foreign legal entities or Russian legal entities, where foreigners have from 50% or more. Roskomnadzor will check if all radio broadcasters brought their own property structure in line with these amendments to the Law “On Media”?

- Since these requirements appeared, we have no complaints. Almost all foreign media still acted through Russian legal entities. There was a certain amount of the media who had to legitimize, which they did.

- In the State Duma, they regularly raise the issue of creating a council of morality in the media, which would assess products that go into print or on the screen. How appropriate is it?

- The media is a mirror that reflects society itself. The media exist according to the advertising model, selling to advertisers the attention of the audience, that is, society. And if the reflection in the media mirror is crooked, then the viewer will turn away and the media simply will not be able to exist. All this I lead to the fact that the morality of all the media in combination absolutely corresponds to the needs of society.

The morality of the media cannot be imposed on top of the top, no tips will help in this. The morality of the media can only be changed by a consolidated request from below - from the audience, from society. And the media, as the most sensitive tuning fork, will instantly answer such a request.

- By the way, Alexei Mitrofanov has already talked about the possible preparation of the press law, in your opinion, is there a need for it?

- The law “On the Media” has been for almost 20 years, he proved his effectiveness. In recent years, the Institute of Universal Licenses has been introduced into it, prescribed what network media are. I don’t see the point of writing a new law: this work is, in it all the roads on which the media can go are open. There must be some more period. Let's see: let's say, maybe not everything needs to be licensed, but only etheric broadcasting licenses, everything else should be allowed according to the declarative principle. This is a dynamic process, but now there are no specific challenges that are facing the media and require legislative settlement.

-Deputies are also concerned about the issues of legislative regulation of media, which are financed from abroad. How do you feel about the idea of marking them with "foreign agents"?

-The question is in the criteria for which it is determined that this or that media is funded from abroad. Obviously, with an overly retreat, it may turn out that any domestic media, placing an advertisement for foreign products, becomes a “foreign agent”.

I think a more relevant task is to work together with a professional community, without binding to financing sources, on how to restore professional ethics standards, how to evaluate and capitalize the professionalism of the editorial office, how to exclude media involvement in raiding and corporate wars, how to give regional media access to access Advertising budgets, which can be pre -trial settlement of disputed situations.

And it is extremely important to work on restoring the confidence of the audience to the media. I am not specifically talking about some publication, but about the "average temperature" in the ward. But the main thing is that all this cannot be lowered on top and imposed, it should go from the industry professionals themselves. They themselves must feel how ripe they are for self -regulation. Our task is to support them in this and remind of their responsibility to society for our own words and actions.

The interview was taken by Maxim Ivanov and Roman Rozhkov

“I didn’t receive commands like “get ready, we’ll give you a club””