Poklonnaya VS swamp

Why, on one day, two different countries were in two squares of Moscow, in February 2012-still protest-political activists argued on different sides of the barricades-Olga Romanova and Mikhail Leontyev

Shrine: Poklonnaya VS swamp. In one city, two different countries were in two squares on two squares. On one they called “not a single vote to Vladimir Putin,” on the other they were called “enemies”. What are the arguments of the parties - the editors of The New Times were argued by active participants in these rallies, people who were conducting one television program together 13 years ago, and now they were on different sides of the barricades, the TV presenter and editor -in -chief of the journal “However” Mikhail Leontyev and the leader of the informal organization “Rus Sitting” Olga Romanova

NT: To begin with: what role did each of you play in the preparation of your rallies?

Olga Romanova: I am called the "wallet of the rally."

NT: *You are also a member of the organizing committee ... *

The organizing committee, he is completely self -proclaimed, because we do not lead anything, we are simply trying to make life easier, for example, to the Moscow government, the Moscow police. Because when we were persuaded at the city hall to postpone on December 5, we said honestly: guys, we are not the leaders of the movement, the people will come out anyway, regardless of whether you allow a rally or not allow them, we will not call them here.

NT: *Mikhail, what is your role in preparing a rally on Poklonnaya Gora? *

Mikhail Leontyev: In preparation - exactly no. Cooked a certain organizing committee, which consisted of different people.

NT: “Bolotnaya’s wallet” had a residence permit on Yandex, and Poklonnaya had his own public wallet? Who financed the rally, including the buses on which people brought?

Leontyev: I don't know, this is unprincipled for me. In fact, the rally consisted of structures that are not unconditionally passing. Some time ago, they were generally called “red-brown”-Kurginyanovites, Prokhanovtsy, Dugin there was*.

NT: *What is the structure of Alexander Prokhanov? *

Leontyev: The newspaper ("tomorrow") and the infrastructure associated with it. Kurginyan has a political organization “essence of time” and an audience of influence of the transmission. People were brought, yes. In the country there are political organizations of the Posoputinsky, which, by the way, have some resources-and can provide buses.

NT: "United Russia" was not there.

Leontyev: There was the entire Popular Front.

Romanova: And where did he get the money from the Popular Front?

Leontyev: From somewhere, probably there is money, I don’t know.

Romanova: Well, not from the budget? As for our wallet and the money of the State Department, the rules of Yandex-he does not accept either cent, even kill yourself.

Olga Romanova - journalist, TV presenter:
"In fact" (with Mikhail Leontyev)
on TVC, 24 on Ren TV. Executive
Director of the Rus Sitting Movement.
Laureate TEFI-2004.

Mikhail Leontyev - journalist, TV presenter:
"In fact" (with Olga Romanova) on the TVC,
“However,” on Channel One. Editor -in -chief
weekly "however."

Behind the scenes

Leontyev: I am sure that Olya all transactions, regarding any case of this public wallet of the rally, made in accordance with the law. Another thing is that in order to transfer money through Yandex to a “wallet”, they could have been in advance in some other accounts in advance-this scheme is known.

NT: That is, after all, the State Department?

Leontyev: Why is the State Department necessarily? We have a lot of people ... for example, the money that comes to these needs from London.

Romanova: Who bought me?

Leontyev: It begins ... I’m not talking about “bought”, I say that the interests of a significant part of Russian economic elites are connected with this. Moreover, a significant part of the Kremlin elites ...

NT: “With this” - with what?

Leontyev: With destabilization and an attempt to remove Putin, they do not like him, tired. I think that the State Department does not pay those who went out into the street with protests. The State Department pays, and not only the State Department, but a lot of structures, including Russian, pay for the organization of the infrastructure that prepares this. Not a rally directly. A rally is a result. Well, we know how this was done in Kyiv, we know how it was done here, how it was done in Serbia. It is obvious to me that this is a very significant part of the Russian economic elite, the bureaucratic elite, a significant part of the Kremlin, because it is clear to me that the connection between the “swamp” and “Kremlin” is simply not a connection, it is a flowing vessel, this is one and the same.

NT: Oh! Is the marsh connected with the Kremlin?

Leontyev: Well, these are the elites! It came, as they say, the best creative, productive class. These are representatives of a large extent glamorous party, there were so -called oligarchs, that is, large Russian business, very large.

Olga Romanova: “Why do people who support quite biblical commandments - do not steal, do not false witness - are immediately called the enemies of Russia?”

Romanova: I have the feeling that, it seems, I know all the people who go to Bolotnaya and Sakharov. I know the Street Art group, for example: used to be engaged in street art, now they have switched to banners. These are managers mainly. Their leader Kolya Belyaev told me here: “Ol, I was not interested in this by December 4, I lived my private life, except that I went to Seliger every summer and turned over the ourselves, and my half of the group consists of ours who left Seliger.” I know the group "Stewardesses", my favorite group. These are girls, beauties, real stewardesses I will not say which company led by Nadia and Anechka. Anechka is small, pretty, so all knocked down, with a peach blush. And Nadia is a tall beauty-blonde. She sings in all languages ​​like a bird, and this is the first in a year or for two groups, which comes on Sundays to the Lubyanka with sponge, with a soap: they wash the Solovetsky stone and leave. And the police do not take them away, because they are “pi-pi-pi”-oh ... they are from the fact that the girls came, washed the pebbles and left. I know the Cheburashki group, a group called “Resistance”, I know one more that helps Dr. Lisa, for example. Such quite fashionable boys with earrings. I know the group “White ribbons” and the “White Ribbon” group, I know the group from the small Chelyabinsk city, Igor heads it: he raises small cities to protest movements. And the famous group, which last year seized bus stops with posters "Vegetables vote for ..."

NT: *What do you have, the organizing committee, relations with the Kremlin? Or with groups of interests close to Medvedev? *

Romanova: Today I personally, together with Gennady Gudkov, supported the conversation with Dmitry Medvedev’s clan about the list of obviously unlawfully convicted for political reasons: I went to the presidential administration, to the tenth entrance, where I maintained relations with the Kremlin clan in the person of Mikhail Fedotov **.

On different sides

NT: *Michael, you said in your speech from the Poklonnaya stand: "These" swamp "people are either idiots or traitors, or rather, idiots led by traitors." All 70 thousands are idiots? *

Leontyev: There is probably a part of a small part, which is Putin’s political opponents, he is actively enraging them - they walked by political columns. I think that this whole rally, all of them aesthetically does not suit Putin one or another ... There is a very large part that the pros that they collect, who can collect people for the event, here are, like Saprykin ***, these guys who can collect the invasion festival, some of these crowds can collect them professionally through the Internet ... those who are going to party, there are a lot of them, which discusses on the Internet, which is discussing on the Internet, which is discussing on the Internet, which is discussed on the Internet. They will go, who sew their hats of hamsters who discuss what socks they wear. This is a well -fed, well -had breakfast, responding to the middle class. They are mostly apolitical, they got everything, but they cannot verbalize what they are against ...

NT: They verbalized - "I will give a slave from a gallery in good hands"

Leontyev: This is not a political verbalization ... The third category of people is a Moscow economic party: a small business, an office employee, this is what our bosses called the productive class and the best people. These are people who have already experienced the blow of the first wave of the crisis, which hits them first - and hits scary - and are in a state of deep neurosis, because they understand that the crisis is inevitable, now it will knock on them. And they need a personifier of this psychosis, neurosis. The best personifier, of course, is our power, the best ... She did a lot for this, we must pay tribute to her, but this is precisely the neurosis personifier. Here I have a dog that I adore, but periodically it interferes under my feet, and when something does not go well, I can break into this dog, which has nothing wrong with me and will never do it in my life. But power is a much more convenient neurosis personifier than a dog ...

NT: That is, Putin is something like a dog that breaks into?

Leontyev: Putin as a personifier of power, because power is Putin.

NT: And yet, why do you think people who went to Bolotnaya are idiots? Actually, in the ancient Greek political dictionary, IDIōtēs are people living outside society and not burdened with its interests and aspirations ...

Leontyev: Because the whole history of recent years, especially the story with the tandem, was a demonstration of the weakness of power. The masses of people of this kind - not hungry and disadvantaged, not embittered by nationalists, but successful people - are possible only when it is clear that the power is weak, that it cannot do anything ... But these people do not understand how and why they will be used. And they refuse to understand this! Because they do not know Russian history, they do not want to know that February ends on October-as it was in 1917. You recall February 1990, when the country was socially homogeneous, and now the stratification, as in Africa, and then, in 1990, there was no energy of violence in the country. Now we have a completely different situation, what Durnovo wrote about: Russians, intellectual parties are never connected with the people and do not understand that they will not be able to restrain the distinguished masses and Russia will be entrusted into the catastrophe! The power that exists now, whatever it may be, is the last damper between this energy of violence and those idiots that go to Bolotnaya.

And people on Poklonnaya, they understand what the "orange scenario" is. From the fact that a bloody bathhouse will happen in Russia, you are no better and no better for them. And it is for that that they hate marsh!

Romanova: Poklonnaya was terrible, very aggressive. I absolutely do not understand why the Poklonnaya wants to destroy me, for which ... I don’t understand why the worshiper calls me a plague and what I deserve it ... I don’t understand why people who support quite biblical commandments - do not steal, do not false, that is, do not falsify - why are they immediately called the enemies of Russia? If I don't like Putin, then I am the enemy of the country. I do not like Putin, not because he is ugly, pale and not smart - not therefore. I do not like the fact that in 12 years he failed to establish a normal mechanism. There is no institution of the prosecutor's office, there is no institution of the court, there is no normal mechanism for changing power. There were conservatives - there were non -holders, there were Republicans - democrats became. This is a normal blood change mechanism. I ate - poked. Sorry. And then he eats everything, eats, eats. Will break. Swamp for the mechanism to work. One day, the cord4 about the elections said a completely wonderful phrase that the Russian people cannot be given the opportunity to choose honestly, because the choice of the people is terrible. The choice of people is Stas Mikhailov. I honestly agree. But if the choice of the people is Stas Mikhailov, let him choose Stas Mikhailov. A mechanism should work that will allow the people, looking at Stas Mikhailov, admiring him in the role of the president, re -elect him or choose at the president and at least Chubais, even Putin - anyone. Everything happens, excuse your uncle, we don’t like you, you are managing incorrectly, and in general, you are badly singing. Leave. I really want it to be bored in Russia to stole and sleep-to prison, so that the writers write, the workers work so that the party is right, left, national ... I want us to boring and dreary to build cheese-burned cows.

Enemies and traitors

Leontyev: What are you talking about? I tell you that you will get a bloody bath. And you will get it with inevitability. Why is the fan aggressive? Because she categorically does not like you. And she will not allow you. That's what is important.

Romanova: Why don't she like us?

Leontyev: Because they sincerely consider you an instrument of demolition of the Russian authorities and the collapse of the country. And they are right, those who understand this at the intellectual level, and those who feel this at the physiological level. You will not succeed. When there are more people on the streets than you, it will end there. And there will be more of them.

Putin is an unconditional leader in these elections. And you have already announced these elections illegitimate! That is, you want to demolish the legal system. And this means a revolution in Russia. And we cannot allow it.

Romanova: And you want to push the Poklonnaya and Bolotnaya?

Leontyev: No, I don't want to push. But one must understand: when suddenly in Bolotnaya they felt that they could collect these “hamsters” in the amount of one hundred thousand people, and you see, you see, nothing at all, and those who are not for power and not for the “hamsters” also can’t, they decided: now they will dictate their will, contrary to reality, contrary to statistics, contrary to the history of Russian.

Mikhail Leontyev: “You want to demolish the legal system. And this means a revolution in Russia. And we cannot allow it "

Romanova: Can I not like Putin further?

Leontyev: I don't like it - this is one thing. But you want to impose your will, want Putin to leave. You want to demolish power. Your leaders and puppeteers have already said now: "We do not recognize the results of any elections."

NT: A second - if you mentioned the puppeteers ... Who is this? And who are those whom you called the Poklonnaya “traitors” who lead “idiots” from the rostrum?

Leontyev: For me, traitors are Nemtsov, Navalny, Kasyanov ... They are traitors of their homeland. These people are a direct hired agent of the enemy, enemy.

NT: Argument?

Leontyev: What does the argument mean? I see it! These people work systematically for the enemy, and work with his money.

NT: Evidence?

Leontyev: What evidence? I do not think that it is necessary to prove obvious things!

Romanova: And who is the enemy?

Leontyev: At the moment, the enemy is people who have declared our elections illegitimate, although they should not touch them at all, what elections we have.

NT: Who is this?

Leontyev: The United States ... still Chirikova - just such a blue -made blue ...

Romanova: Where does she get the money?

Leontyev: She receives money from Nemtsov, according to his admission.

NT: *And Nemtsov? *

Leontyev: They exist for resources coming from there, and on the internal resource ...

NT: What is this resource?

Leontyev: Money, direct political support. Political support of the enemy is betrayal.

NT: That is, Putin's political opponents - by determining the traitors?

Lentyev: These are people who consciously, unlike idiots, demolish the country, they understand what they are doing. What Chirikova understands is separate, Chirikova is such a small promising instrument.

Romanova: Chirikov from the traitors are deleted, no?

Leontyev: All these people standing behind an unsystematic opposition are really traitors, of course.

NT: On February 26, the opposition will enter the next action, and then, as announced, they will again be collected. How can this situation end?

Romanova: I think, unfortunately, that there is no more good scenario, sooner or later they will set the bow at all the others, on those who do not like thieves in power. This aggression will result in a best case in a marine. And with Mordobia, we very quickly go into the bloody bath, unfortunately. We will be wetted: people who do not like the authorities who want changes who want for some reason the judicial system, launching mechanisms, and launching social elevators for some reason. But people will come out anyway, as they went to Bolotnaya for the first time.

NT: Michael, is your good and bad scenario of events?

Leontyev: So, in itself, the rally does not threaten anyone in any form. But it will be prepared on March 5, people will be assembled, warm up - we saw these scenarios.

That is, the historical opportunity that the worshiper will face Bolotnaya, of course, there is, in fact, I spoke about it all the time. But this is not literally, of course. Although the people on the worshiper are, of course, “hamsters”.

What will we observe? We will observe attempts to increase pressure on power with a high probability of provocations and excesses. The best, of course, what they would dream of is, roughly speaking, the Syrian script. The Syrian version is the customer’s dream, the dream of those whom I called traitors ... But the authorities will not allow any violence.

NT: *Is this an optimistic scenario? *

Leontyev: Yes. This scenario is more than likely, but for it you need to collect, excuse me, a bow.

NT: *is good, and if the second round - Putin loses ... *

Leontyev: And he loses to Zyuganov. Who else can he lose? I can say what will happen: Zyuganov recognizes his defeat.

In the current situation, Putin precisely because of his halfness is a barrier from violence. Putin will not - it will be almost force to sort things out with Bolotnaya.

NT: And who will it be?

Leontyev: If people are my like -minded people related to the so -called security forces who went through the wars who served, who are partially serving, if these people decide that they are drained the country for the second time ...

Olga, do you want to object?

Romanova: I want 100 grams ...

* Alexander Dugin, the ideologist and leader of the Eurasian movement.

** Advisor to the President, Head of the Council for the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights under the President of the Russian Federation.

*** Yuri Saprykin-chief editor of Afisha-Rabler, member of the organizing committee of the rally.