We are publishing fragments of the interrogation of State Duma deputy Ilya Ponomarev in connection with numerous rumors about his testimony to the investigators of the Investigative Committee.

Foreword from the Editor

While preparing the materials, we drew attention to the fact that the goals of the announced march on May 6, which attracted tens of thousands of people to participate in it, diverged from the goals of a number of opposition leaders.

Paying tribute to the deputy Ponomarev, who saved the injured woman, it should be noted: the blind use of people who came to the rally, since "with such an appearance, you can not disperse" is a bad political tone.

The vast majority went to Bolotnaya, not assuming that someone was buying tents, was going to stay on the square, break through the chains of the police.

We demand honesty from the authorities, and it seems that some of the opposition leaders should make the same demands.

"We were left with the last night with the old president."

We publish frank answers of Ilya Ponomarev during interrogation in the UK,

about which there are many rumors ...

PROTOCOL

interrogation of a witness

Moscow

July 23, 2012

Interrogation began at 11:00. 12 min.

Interrogation ended at 4 p.m. 00 min.

Break: from 14 hours 04 minutes to 14 hours 14 minutes

<...> Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain whether you were aware of the persons who were its organizers before the start of the public event on May 6, 2012? Do you know them personally? Did they take part in a public event (rally, rally)?

Witness response : Yes, they do. I knew that the organizers of the rally were Udaltsov S.S. (the main inspirer), Mityushkin, Davidis, I don’t remember the rest at the moment. Usually we have five people from different political spectrum who change. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness IV Ponomarev, could you explain whether you were planning to speak on Bolotnaya Square during the rally? If so, with what kind of speech and with whom was this decision agreed upon?

Answer of the witness: I don't remember exactly, in my opinion, yes. Unlike many, I am not especially torn; I think they talked to me to speak. The hosts were supposed to be Yashin and Chirikova, respectively, one of them asked me to speak at the 05/06/2012 rally. I had to make a speech concerning the inauguration of the President of the Russian Federation, as well as with words organizing the participants to develop the program and implement it.

Investigator's question: Witness IV Ponomarev, please explain what is your purpose of participating in the public event on May 6, 2012?

Witness response: I wanted to show Putin that a significant part of society does not agree with his course and his methods that he manages, to call for the correction of this course in any possible way (the ideal scenario for me is a negotiation process where the parties would openly and publicly exchange mutual claims and chart a way out of the crisis). Our main task is to have more people at each next rally than at the previous one. So that the comrades in the Kremlin understand that it will not resolve itself.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., could you explain whether you made a speech before the participants of a public event - a rally on the stage or in another place of Bolotnaya Square?

Answer of the witness: My speech at the rally did not take place, because it itself did not take place. I didn’t even go to Bolotnaya Square even once that day.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain, did you have the goal of participating in a public event on May 6, 2012, to prevent the inauguration of the President of the Russian Federation planned on May 7, 2012? If so, what methods would you like to achieve this goal? Did the methods planned to be used include disrupting the procedure for holding a public event by proactively calling on its participants to stay at the venue after the agreed time of its termination?

Answer of the witness: Obstruction, of course, in the sense that this was our main task, so that the president would not come to power as a result of dishonest elections. Therefore, the action was scheduled for 05/06/2012 - in order to once again appeal to start some kind of dialogue and return the situation to the legal course. The public event held on 05/06/2012 was the method of preventing the inauguration. I did not plan to use the method of disrupting the order of the rally by calling on its participants to stay at the place where it was held after the time of its termination. Whether anyone else planned it, I can't say. <…>

At the end of familiarization witness Ponomarev AND.The. with the video recording presented for viewing, his interrogation continued.

Investigator's question: Witness IV Ponomarev, can you explain who is depicted in the video recording shown to you?

Witness response: The video shows me, S.S. Udaltsov, Popova, as well as various people from the left front. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain what the phrase you said to the journalist's question means: “So far this exceeds my expectations regarding the appearance. So if everything goes as it goes, and such a good fist of people gathers, then I think that we may well not disperse?

Witness's answer: This is the answer to the journalist's question. There was a question: “How do you turn out, will you stay overnight or not?” This is such a PR story, the organizers send signals of power in this way. Our task is to make Putin pay attention to what is happening on the street. To do this, we had to demonstrate determination and purposefulness in every possible way. We often utter different words, slogans, but this is part of public rhetoric, which should encourage the opposite side to take some steps towards. In this case, we demonstrated our determination: if the investigation has this video, then the Kremlin also has it. The leaders of the country have a choice: either continue to escalate the situation, ignore it, so that people become more and more noisy and run into trouble, or take some conciliatory steps towards and start a conversation. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain what the phrase you said to a journalist's question about the purpose of your participation in a public event means: "The goal is to prevent the inauguration", with the journalist's clarification about your intention to stay at the venue of the public event for the night and your confirmation of the specified phrase with the expression: “Well, we would have to stand the night and hold out for the day. There, you see, everything will work out ”?

Answer of the witness: I have already said that our main task of this entire event on May 6, 2012 was to influence the inauguration of the President of the Russian Federation. For this, in fact, we were going. Before the inauguration, there was the rest of the working day on May 06, 2012 and the night - it was with these circumstances that the figure of speech that I used was connected: that the last night remains with the old president. It seems to me that in any case, even if you suspect me or Udaltsov S.S., or anyone else of the intention to stay after the rally, then the events developed further clearly not according to the script. And from this we can conclude that we are either such worthless organizers who could not withstand their scenario, or the clashes after the procession were not organized by us. If the police preemptively wanted to disrupt our plans to stay after the event, then it must be assumed that the police provoked the riots. I also want to note that the very fact that people are on certain Moscow squares at night does not mean that they have violated the laws on rallies...<...>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain: being a public person due to your status as a deputy and even expressing yourself, in your words, “in the subjunctive mood” and within the framework of your public rhetoric, do you feel responsible to media viewers, participants in a public event who, based on the essence of the phrases and expressions you used, would take them for the ongoing intention to prevent the inauguration of the President of the Russian Federation by being at the venue of the rally on 05/06/2012, 05/07/2012?

Answer of the witness: I feel responsible, but the participants of the rally had no opportunity to see these words, since the filming was made directly during the rally. There was also no live broadcast, I was not recorded live. Since I have experience in public events, I watch my expressions, which can provoke a crush, a crowd, and any action. If I call for something, then I usually understand what I'm doing. In this case, I watched my expressions and expressed myself accurately enough for the audience that I understood. If you walk in a column and chant the popular slogan: “Ropes for the bourgeoisie, rifles for the workers!” - this will not be a call for an armed uprising.

Further witness Ponomarev AND.The. presented for review video with the name «__MOV__019»…<…> Upon completion of familiarization witness Ponomarev AND.The. with the video recording presented for viewing, his interrogation continued. <…>

Question of the investigator: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain the essence of the case between you and Udaltsov S.S. of the conversation captured in the video you are viewing?

Answer of the witness: The bottom line is this: I came and told Udaltsov S.S. how the chain costs. The recording shows that I show with gestures that there is a turn and a crush. I tell Udaltsov S.S. about how to prevent a crush. I suggested Udaltsov S.S. put forward columns of guys stronger so that they squeeze out the chain of soldiers on Serafimovich Street behind the Small Stone Bridge. I still think that this would be the best option.

Question of the investigator: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain the course of yours with Udaltsov S.S. conversation before the start and after the end of the video presented to you for review by setting out the full dialogue?

Answer of the witness: I told S.S. Udaltsov S.S. I did not agree with this, because I did not want to use violence, so that later we would not be accused of organizing riots. He wanted the police authorities to see that people had sat down on the asphalt, and in order to move the column further, the police authorities would take measures to move the chain away and people to pass to the place of the rally. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness I.V. Ponomarev, please clarify what you mean by the letter you addressed to Udaltsov S.S. a phrase with the following content: “We are not turning onto Bolotnaya. Turn around, everything is there, the pipe. There are cops there. There <...> you need to squeeze the first chain a little, there are a lot of cops there. We need to squeeze a little bit so that people ... "? What do you mean in the context of the stated phrase the words "squeeze the chain"?

Answer of the witness: This phrase refers to the head of the column. I thought and still think that, since the first ones have free space in their heads, they could be immediately taken to Bolotnaya Square, and the rest would be crushed. The phrase "press the chain" means that it was required to push the chain of police officers, soldiers away from the column by force.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., specify whether the expression you used “to squeeze the chain of cops” means changing the location of the established chain of police officers and military personnel who ensure the protection of public order and the safety of participants in a public event, by exerting active physical pressure on them?

Witness response: Active or passive physical impact. I wanted to have young activists who would protect the civilian population. I was not talking about breaking the chain, but about pushing it back to the place that had previously been agreed upon. I wanted the front members of the column to grapple with their hands, arrange their chain, standing chain to chain, after which the subsequent column would begin to put pressure on the chain of police officers and military personnel, and it would move aside under the physical pressure of the crowd.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain what does the expression you used “turn, everything is there, pipe” mean?

Witness response: This expression means that a crush is possible there. The pipe is geometry, there was a sharp narrowing of the passage. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain whether you were the initiator on your own or along with other persons of the “sit-in” that took place on the descent from the Maly Kamenny Bridge? If not, do you know him (them)? Did you participate in it, and if so, how?

Answer of the witness: I was its active participant, but not the organizer. I had a different point of view on what to do (described earlier). After Udaltsov S.S. I gave everyone the command to sit down, I began to help him. I myself sat in the front row and seated the participants next to me. The initiator of the "sitting strike" was Udaltsov S.S.: he turned to people with a megaphone, saying that the police were standing, and we did not want violence, clashes, and invited everyone to sit down. Then Navalny A.A. approached him. and also began to shout something of the same content. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., specify, Udaltsov S.S. was its purpose explained to the participants of the rally? Did she have other goals besides avoiding contact with the chain of police and stampede?

Witness Answer: Udaltsov S.S. he said through a megaphone that the police are here, we should sit down, if they don’t let us into the square, then we will sit right here and will sit here until Putin leaves. The "sit-in" had two goals: to avoid a stampede and contact with the police. We sat down to stop the column. The "sit-in" had no other goals. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain whether you exerted physical pressure on police officers, military personnel who guard public order and ensure the safety of participants in a public event, aimed at violating the cordon chain built by them? If yes, for what purpose? Were the described actions performed by other persons in your presence?

Witness's answer: No, I didn't need it, because they could let me in just like that, according to my ID. But I was in contact with them because I was in the front row. Several times I demanded that the participants in the chain break the chain: the first was when Dmitry Oreshkin (a member of the Presidential Council for Human Rights) tried to pass; the second - when the woman became ill and lost consciousness (she needed to be pulled out of the crowd); the third was a man whose head was smashed, and I led him out of the cordon. All three times I persuaded the police and military personnel to break the chain. I myself did not participate in the breakouts - I saw a break in the chain, but it was 50 meters from me (I did not see the participants in the break in the cordon, there was such a dump).

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain, did you call on the surrounding participants of the public event to exert physical pressure on the police officers, military personnel who protect public order and ensure the safety of the participants in the public event, aimed at violating the cordon chain built by them? If so, for what purpose, and did the participants respond to your calls with active actions?

Witness response: I repeatedly called on the male participants to stand in the front row with me, close to the chain of police and military personnel - this was already after the "sit-in". At this time, the OMON reinforced the chain of soldiers, and the chain began to move towards the people. I urged the men to strengthen themselves, to help prevent the movement of the police chain. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness IV Ponomarev, could you explain the essence of the phrases you uttered, addressed to the participants of the public event, captured on the video recording presented to you for review?

Witness's answer: There was a place where it was possible to cross this chain. This was already after the breakthrough, and the chain consisted of 4-5 layers of policemen. It was impossible to agree on disengaging her. I found a place where the chain was thin; next to me was one of the employees who formed the chain. Accordingly, I called people to take out this aunt.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain the essence of what Baronova M.N. phrases addressed to the participants of the public event, captured on the video presented to you for review?

Answer of the witness: Does she have the essence of these phrases? Our Masha is a somewhat exalted girl. She created a boil around herself - seeing that her aunt was unconscious. At first they thought she was dead. Kipesh is chaos. I remember that I spent more time on Baronova M., and not on the cops, calming her down.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., specify what your phrase means: "Guys, it's generally thin here!" - and to whom is it addressed?

Witness response: It is addressed to the protesting men who were with a woman who was ill. The phrase meant that the men dragged the woman here, to me, in order to carry her here through the chain. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., please explain what Baronova M.N. the next phrase: “Hey, guys, push it here! Come here, quickly! Give it here! - and to whom is it addressed? What is your personal perception of the above-mentioned Baronova M.N. phrases? How did you perceive this phrase and how did others perceive it?

Witness response: It is addressed to the men who were with the unconscious woman. It was required that the men put pressure on the barrage chain in order to unclench it and carry the woman there.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain whether the above mentioned phrase is Baronova M.N. an appeal addressed to the surrounding “muzhiks” to put pressure on the barrage chain in place of yours and Baronova M.N. finding in order to break it?

Witness Answer: No, it is not. The chain had to be broken. In the chain stood strong men, hands clasped together. We needed a member of the chain to see the woman and let her through the chain. Baronova M. urged them to put pressure on them so that they could get to the chain and carry the woman there.

Investigator's question: Witness I.V. Ponomarev, what do you think is the meaning of what you said after the above phrase by M.N. Baronova? the next phrase: "People, why are you standing there?" - and to whom is it addressed?

Answer of the witness: This is a question for the participants around. The surrounding people looked at me with incomprehension, I urged them to take measures to deliver the woman to the chain and my location. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain the essence of the dialogue with the participants of the public event, which is further on the video recording, during which you use phrases about the need to go straight, and you also say the following phrase: “Come on, whoever has a swearword, call people here”, and your guiding hand gesture towards the protective chain of police officers and military personnel?

Answer of the witness: I have already said everything. I called people to come to me and showed people that the woman had to be carried behind the chain of custody. On st. There was an ambulance station at Serafimovich’s, and I showed it there—they had to take the woman there. <…>

PROTOCOL

additional examination of a witness

Moscow

July 25, 2012

<...> Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain whether the participants of the public event on 05/06/2012 at the time of the start of the "sit-in" had the opportunity to get to the place of the rally - to Bolotnaya Square? Did you estimate in advance the size of the passage to Bolotnaya Square, and if so, what is it?

Answer of the witness: I cannot say for sure whether there was a possibility of passage at the time of its conduct, since I did not see these shots. I think there was a possibility, but only through an even narrower passage. The size of the passage was estimated by me in comparative terms compared with the width of the Small Stone Bridge - it was about 2.5 - 3 times the width of the bridge.

Investigator's question: Witness Ponomarev I.V., explain whether you think that, according to your testimony, the "sitting strike" that took place for about an hour, being an uncoordinated event that was not brought to the attention of all participants in the public event in advance - on the contrary, did it lead to an additional crush of the participants in the convoy, a stop in the movement of the first rows with pressure on them from the latter, an increase in the tension of the participants in the absence of available information about what was happening and, as a result, to the clashes with the police and military personnel of the protective chains?

Answer of the witness: I think that it is strictly the opposite. I believe that if we had not done this, then there would have been Khodynka. We saved a lot of people from the crush. <…>

Investigator's question: Witness IV Ponomarev, could you explain whether the public event held on 05/06/2912 achieved its goals?

Witness's answer: No, I don't think so. The inauguration of the president has passed, there has been no dialogue between the authorities and the opposition. <…>