Marat Gelman: "Those who are inside the authorities are more afraid than those who are outside"

Marat Gelman, the head of the Perm cultural project, was suspended from the leadership of the Permm Museum of Contemporary Art. What is the matter and what is happening with culture in Perm and the country - the famous galleryist and cultural citizen asked The New Times

When organizing exhibitions, Marat Gelman never shocked acute political and social topics

Within one week, the exhibition of the Krasnoyarsk artist Vasily elephant “Welcome! Sochi 2014 ”, followed by the exposition of the New Barbizon group - for the fact that artists from Israel expressed solidarity with a colleague, then Russian Baroque Sergey Kamenny with allusions for protest movement. After the exhibitions were transferred to the PermM museum, they came there with a search. Gelman, who came to Moscow for the presentation, immediately flew to Perm. The New Times contacted him on Friday evening, before signing the number to print.

What is happening in the museum now? What are the results of the search?

Anecdotal. They demanded all the documentation over the past and this year - they hoped to find abuses. When it did not work out what they were counting on, they said that they would check the pictures of elephant for extremism. I think they looked at them and realized that it was hopeless. And in the end, as I was told, the case of the "illegal use of Olympic symbols" will be aroused. This is generally funny! Anyway, Grekov Studios, for example, to sue for using army symbolism or corporate style of fascists in battal paintings. That is, now the local authorities are trying to keep my face, at least to present something to me. There is nothing real, but they, of course, have all the resources, how it ends, it is difficult to say ...

Close and cancel

How did the roll for?

There were several points. Five years ago, I started working on the Perm cultural project with Oleg Chirkunov (Governor of the Perm Territory in 2004–2012 - The New Times). He had to leave ahead of schedule, despite the fact that there was an agreement with Medvedev, which would be finalized before the entry into force of the law on the elections of governors*. Medvedev either does not decide anything, or he deceived us, but as a result of the Chirkunes he left earlier, and then a new governor was quickly and quickly appointed. I think it started with this. When he came (Victor) Basargin, he immediately had the mood to close and cancel.

Why?

He was wound from Moscow.

And how did you react in Perm?

And here is another. Those who previously scolded me (“that support him, his Chirkunov supports”) suddenly realized that all cultural undertakings could end. It was a very important point - September, October, November last year, when, through public councils, through the deputies the Permyaki themselves, without my participation, defended a cultural project. That is, if earlier it was, relatively speaking, the project of Gelman and Chirkunov, then after that fall it became a Perm project. We defended budgets, money for museums, to the festivals ... They signed a new contract with me - already a new administration. But when this aggressive hit through Izvestia ** happened, the administration was frightened. Then another collision - Senator Klimov and State Duma deputy from Perm Kuranov arrived. They had some other program, it was connected with the housing and communal services, but then it seemed to them that there was a very convenient occasion and a sharp moment to press Basargin.

Did they need to put pressure on Basargin?

After all, no one is interested in art. Here is a pure policy. They understand each other. Chirkunov had experience - how to leave and how to maneuver. And these took and with fright closed all three exhibitions. Yes, they did it openly, announcing the press that we, they say, are closing ... If until this moment I was ready to enter the position of the administration that they attacked, maybe even helping something, then after they closed the exhibitions, it all ended for me. From my point of view, you can go to different compromises. But you cannot close. Censorship is destructive. From this moment I stop cooperation and begin the war. And we took these exhibitions from the festival project and transferred them to our museum of contemporary art.

And they immediately fired you from the post of director?

I found out about this in Moscow, there they did not say anything.

The organizers of the exhibition "WelCome! Sochi 2014 ”can be involved in the“ illegal use of Olympic symbols ”

And who is this hero man who fired Helman himself?

Igor Gladnev, a former actor, then he was the organizer of corporate parties in some large corporation. Now he acts as the Minister of Culture of the Perm Territory.

He was just scared or something else happened?

No, no, this is definitely not his question. His fault is in one thing - he is not ashamed of this. On the contrary, he says: I believe that we have the right to prohibit watching, closing, checking. But the fact that he did not make a decision is absolutely.

And he does not know about the law prohibiting censorship?

It seems that they are sure: they need to change the law. They are still very Soviet people. So easily switched to Soviet rhetoric, demagogy, so they did it instantly ... It is impossible to learn this, here you just need to remember.

How do you explain this as a political scientist?

For officials, this is sitting in a subcortex. In addition - the province.

But officials are able to adapt. Why do they suddenly remember that they are Soviet people? What happens and what will happen?

Why they were scared - this is no longer a question about art, but about what happened in a year in the country. There are three models - Surkovskaya, Volodinskaya and Putin. Surkov said this: be loyal, that is, do not run into power, do not participate in rallies, and everything will be fine. It was such a zone in which it was somehow possible to fit Grebenshchikov, to me ... that is, do not be active opponents, nothing more is required of you. Volodin says: No, it’s not good, either you are with us, or you are against us - you will decide. You are with us - then you are protected. You are against us - then, therefore, all charms. And in this situation, too, everything is clear. And now the third stage, I also call him “Sorokinsky”, referring to the “Oprichnik Day”: even if you are with us, you must also be afraid - you, the minister who swore, and you, the governor who licked everyone - should all be afraid.

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As part of the world artistic environment, we continue to move forward, and they want to turn the country into such an Orthodox Iran

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In addition to this oprichnina, there is a close circle. And you do not know who belongs to him. Basargin, of course, does not belong, but this belongs? And this one? That is, now the time has come when everyone needs to be afraid and everyone. Those who are inside power are more afraid of more than those that are outside. It is impossible to talk freely inside in principle. Moreover, they are even afraid to think. This new stage has settled fear in the authorities itself. Because now there is some kind of circle of untouchables, and everyone else is also vulnerable. Therefore, as soon as they ran into the Perm administration, they were immediately scared and went to do stupid acts.

In the artistic environment in the 90s, it was the feeling that we were moving in the same direction with society and with the authorities, just a little with different speeds, with different understanding, but in principle we move to the future. In the 2000s, I still made an exhibition “Russia-2”, it seemed that we could build an autonomous life for ourselves. Now I have the feeling that we are moving in the exact opposite direction. That is, as part of the world artistic environment, we continue to move forward, try to think with the categories of the future, and they return us, they go to the past, they are closed. Relatively speaking, they want to turn the country into such an Orthodox Iran and instead of the future they offer the past. The Communists are Stalin, and the capitalists are Stolypin. But both have nothing to do with our reality. Previously, although they made fun of Medvedev, over his not very clever projects, but this was part of the atmosphere in which we lived. The word "modernization" has generally disappeared from the vocabulary, now they talk about "return to traditional values." This is what is happening in the country.

Do not be decorators

Sergey Kamenny, "Strategy 31"

What events do you think in this new Putin period?

Everything related to Bolotnaya Square, with the Pussy Riot case and the court over them. Prior to this, the art community believed that to engage and even be interested in politics - not comme il faut. The situation on the Bolotnaya sharply changed everything. Suddenly, one day it turned out that art ceased to be the vanguard of society, that society has advanced much further, and for the art community it was a deadly diagnosis: if it is not the vanguard of society, then no one needs it except those people who adorn their interiors. And people like, for example, Oleg Kulik, do not want to be decorators - they want to determine the semantic things that are important for the country. Therefore, artists began to be actively interested in social practices, politics, etc.

When the girls from Pussy Riot were absolutely put up for anything, the artists realized that they should be in solidarity. Like colleagues from Europe, America, for whom solidarity is a reflex, a common thing. Last fall, when the girls were sentenced, when terrible laws began to be adopted, the art community began to be determined politically. And this is the third important period, which today makes at least distance itself from power. Since March, I have ceased to cooperate with the “large government”, whose member was - I was considered a collaborator, that is, a person who, for the sake of the goal - of the Perm project, went to cooperation with the authorities. Now this is impossible. This applies to everyone. Today it is impossible to find the arguments by which you cooperate with the authorities, which just plants your colleagues. This is what happened during this time in the art community.

Are you not exaggerating? Something is not heard until the voices in your defense, for example.

Perhaps when I talk about the community, I mean the circle of people with whom I interact. Probably, we must talk more about the trend. A person who is engaged in art should also be courageous. You cannot demand heroic acts from him, but at the level of decency, in general, I do not know anyone who would take the side of the authorities.

Politics against culture

When the nuts are twisted on one side, on the other, logically, the resistance is stronger. In your opinion, confrontation will grow, as it was in Soviet times, when an art anddegun appeared, emigration?

Emigration is already happening. I will not call names, but many artists, directors, musicians, who, as it seems to us, are here - they are already there.

And here, we have, what will happen to art?

From a creative point of view in this difficult situation, there are a lot of interesting projects. That is, one thing is the conditions in which we exist, another is creative processes. They are not parallel. In a situation of tension, the artist is easier than just the layman: he can meet art, and he does so. Another question is that part of what is being done, leaves, disappears, does not benefit - that's how with Perm.

It is hard to believe that these deputies who arrived are to blame for the fact that persecution began on you.

No, of course, they are performers.

Do you know who is the initiator?

I don't want to call names. Because it is, on the one hand, everyone knows, you will say banality, and on the other, what's the difference? It is important that this is done within the framework of the task of “building” the local authorities - the governor must be controlled.

How can this end for you?

I do not know their intentions. It is necessary to finish the festival "White Nights".

Photos: ITAR-TASS