Head of the FMS Konstantin Romodanovsky about the events in Biryulyovo and their consequences

The nationalist pogrom in the Moscow district of Biryulyovo Zapadnoe forced politicians and observers to talk about the need to tighten migration policy. The head of the Federal Migration Service, KONSTANTIN ROMODANOVSKY, in an interview with Kommersant, said that his service will not do anything extraordinary in connection with the events in the south of Moscow. Nevertheless, Mr. Romodanovsky announced a large-scale reform of the system regulating the procedure for issuing residence permits, and admitted that control over migration flows will be strengthened.

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At the end of four years, the total entry of migrants into the Russian Federation increased by 37%, and we had to somehow respond to this

Photo: Kommersant / Dmitry Lekai / buy photo

Muscovites committed 52% of crimes in the capital, nonresidents - 48%. Foreigners out of 48% committed 20% of crimes

Photo: Kommersant / Dmitry Lekai / buy photo

Employers have a lot of serums against our bites. They hire lawyers, sue us, oppose us in all directions

Photo: Kommersant / Dmitry Lekai / buy photo

— You recently stated that you cannot get results in the fight against illegal migration “with candy or carrots”—you need a stick. This statement was made after a fight at the Matveevsky market between traders from Dagestan and police officers. Has your position changed after the events in Western Biryulyovo?

— I haven’t changed my position. It was formed for me under the influence of several factors. First of all, because of the challenge that we felt after four years: the total entry of migrants into the Russian Federation increased by 37%, and we had to somehow respond to this. The second factor is that our calls for migrants to legalize did not lead to an improvement in the situation. Take, for example, the patent institution introduced in 2010, which is issued to foreigners who want to work for individuals in Russia. We provided people with the opportunity to legalize, while at the same time satisfying the aspirations of those who shouted about the need for newcomers to adapt. Pay 1 thousand rubles. per month and live in peace. What result did we get? Those who wanted to legalize are two to three times less than those who remain outside the legal stay. The third factor is that those who are entering Russia are not the ones we need. Unadapted, poorly educated young people from Central Asia arrive. They irritate the Russian population, and this irritation extends to those visitors that Russia really needs—educated and qualified citizens from neighboring states. Naturally, the movement of people who come to Russia must be monitored, they must be managed in a manner beneficial to our country and to them.

— You are essentially talking about tightening migration policy. What will it be expressed in? What laws are you preparing?

Moscow mayor about events in Western Biryulyovo

“The first steps we have taken inspire optimism. I mean the ban on the entry into Russia of those who violated our migration legislation, recently approved by the State Duma. We see that this mechanism is at work, and this is felt not only in Russia, but also in the countries from which the most migrants come to us. They began to understand that when coming to Russia, foreigners must comply with our laws and requirements. I believe that the whip, although it is a soft, civilized whip, should exist.

— From which countries is the largest influx of migrants to Russia observed?

— If you look at the number of people crossing the border, then from Ukraine. If we talk about the number of those who remain in the country, then they are from Uzbekistan. Ukrainians usually stay in Russia for no more than 90 days, as required by law, then they leave, take a week for a break and enter again. For citizens of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, the situation is more complicated: tickets are expensive, and the journey takes longer, so they sit here. Oddly enough, we have the most advanced relations with Tajikistan. The situation with them is one of the most difficult, but the most has been done with them - both in terms of the number of agreements and their persistence. I believe that it is difficult for Tajikistan without Russia, and for Russia without Tajikistan. This is how it happened both historically and geopolitically.

— How many citizens wishing to enter Russia were denied entry?

— More than 285 thousand people currently remain outside the Russian Federation. We process up to 3 thousand entry ban documents per day. At the same time, the number of those who are issued a ban is comparable to the number of protocols on violation of migration laws that migrants in Russia receive. As a rule, these are protocols on violation of the regime of stay or work activities. We actively use Art. 26.4 of the Code of Administrative Offenses (CAO), according to which, if there are two violations of migration legislation, we deny a foreigner entry into the Russian Federation. I don't like the word "tightening" that you used. Understand, we see a picture of the migration situation, which consists of statistics, of numbers, and, analyzing the statistics, we see gaps in this picture that need to be filled. That is, we proceed from the real state of affairs.

— Participants in the riots in Biryulyovo openly stated that, for example, they do not dislike citizens of Tajikistan, but they categorically do not like visitors from the Caucasus, that is, citizens of Russia. It is obvious that entry bans will not correct the situation. Is not it?

— The problem is very complex and complex. We need to develop the regions. And they need to be developed not only economically, but also educationally, because people come to Moscow with their own charter. I do not have a mandate to control internal migration, but it seems to me that the measures that we talked about at the beginning - first of all, the creation of a population registration system - should help. But again, without the participation of the authorities of those regions from where people travel to the capital, the situation cannot be corrected. This problem that you mentioned is mature, maturing, but, thank God, it is still under control thanks to the work of the police and the FSB. In any case, all the heads in the FMS are not enough to solve this problem; everyone needs to get involved. It may be necessary to create a special government program.

— How serious is the crime situation among migrants? After the Matveevsky scandal, Moscow prosecutor Sergei Kudeneyev said that every second crime in the capital is committed by a non-Moscow resident. And if we proceed from the total number of crimes that are registered in Moscow, then everything does not look so threatening: visitors commit 17% of crimes.

How the Moscow City Duma accepted Biryulev’s experience

- According to the statistics that we have, Muscovites committed 52% of crimes in the capital - non-residents, respectively, 48%. Non-residents mean foreigners and visitors from other regions. So, out of 48%, 20% of crimes were committed by foreigners.

— There is a lot of talk about Russia’s integration with the CIS countries, and at the same time Russia wants to ease the visa regime with the European Union. Politicians, in particular Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin, declare the need to introduce a visa regime with Central Asian countries. It is not clear what Russia’s migration policy consists of and whether it exists at all?

— The introduction of visa relations with neighboring countries is unlikely. The guiding approach should be “profitable - not profitable”. In this case, integration, any kind, is beneficial to us - both for the economy and for ordinary citizens. Here the example of Ukraine, which is eager to join the European Union, is indicative. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov admitted that budget revenues have decreased by a quarter in six months due to the fact that Ukraine cannot decide which way to go. We cannot make such mistakes. Don’t fence yourself off, don’t hide yourself from your neighbors with visas, but create conditions and preferences for young and promising foreigners who want to come to Russia. Preferences for foreign students will begin to operate in 2014. For those studying full-time, a simplified procedure for obtaining a work permit is being introduced, without taking into account quotas: the employer does not need to obtain permission to attract and use labor.

— How can intolerance towards visitors within the country be combined with economic and political expediency?

— It seems to me that the quality of migrants needs to be improved. The problem is that Russia has long been focused on using the factor of temporary labor migration - because of this, we are faced with the problems that we now have. We need to focus on in-demand, qualified, and differentiated migration. Reforms in migration policy are dictated by this approach. If we follow the path we have chosen, I do not see any problems for a visa-free regime with neighboring countries and simultaneous integration with Europe.

— Will your department cooperate with the nationalists, who were the main force in Biryulyovo? They constantly express a desire to test someone.

— Let's put it this way: I am ready to argue and discuss, including about migration policy, but I will not use these forces.

— Residents of Biryulyovo say that their area is overcrowded with migrants. This is true? Which areas of Moscow lead in the number of migrants?

— Biryulyovo is not among the areas where there are the most migrants. Judging by how many foreigners are registered with the migration authorities, there are less than 24 thousand migrants in Biryulyovo—the same number are registered, for example, in Otradnoye. The leader is the Basmanny district: there are 66 thousand migrants registered there, in Lyublino - almost 44 thousand, in the Tagansky district - 43 thousand. As for the Moscow districts, the leader in the number of registered migrants is the Central Administrative District: there are 448,176 thousand of them, in the North-Eastern Administrative District - 120,823 thousand, in the Eastern Administrative District - 257,156 thousand, in the South-East Administrative District - 87,678 thousand, in the Southern Administrative District - 126,554 thousand, in the South-Western Administrative District - 97,048 thousand, in the Closed Administrative District - 54,244 thousand, in the North-Western Administrative District - 44 422 thousand and, finally, in the Northern Administrative District - 101,998 thousand. It is very difficult to adequately assess how many migrants are in a particular area and in the city as a whole, since we use only official migration registration data.

--FMS is implementing the state program for the resettlement of compatriots. Since its start, that is, since 2007, how many people have been able to return to Russia?

— Almost 147 thousand.

— What prevented you from making the program more effective?

— Remember the crisis of 2008? Production stopped and there was nowhere to employ people. Nevertheless, the program worked. In 2011, we brought more than 20 thousand people, last year - 63 thousand people, which is 50% of the total number of those who moved. Recently, we have been targeting 100 thousand people per year. But the main question that we face when implementing the program is: who are these people who come? Our priorities have changed: we prioritize quality, not quantity.

--Can a person who wants to move to Russia, for example, qualify for preferential lending conditions?

— There is nothing in the program for the resettlement of compatriots about preferential lending conditions.

“But for those moving, the main question is where they will live. Is there a simplified scheme for obtaining housing?

— Housing is difficult, as always. All questions to the receiving regions, which decide on what conditions to provide housing. We need to understand that not everything has been decided regarding housing and for our citizens.

— In addition to the entry ban for migrants, is anything else being prepared?

— The same law that prohibits the entry of those who previously violated migration legislation in Russia amended the Code of Administrative Offenses, which provide for the unalternative deportation from the Russian Federation of foreigners illegally staying in our country and those who violated migration legislation in Moscow and the Moscow region , St. Petersburg and Leningrad region. In addition, the law on a new form of population registration passed its first reading. There are plans to reform the system regulating types of residence in Russia and the quota system.

— What will the reform of the system regulating types of residence consist of?

State Duma on migrants

— It involves the consolidation of two concepts: temporary residence of a foreigner in Russia and permanent residence. The institution of temporary residence exists in Europe. A migrant who decides to stay in Russia for more than 90 days receives temporary resident status. In order to obtain this status, a migrant must explain for what purposes he wants to stay in Russia: for the sake of education, work, etc. He must support his intentions with documents. As for permanent resident status, that is, obtaining a residence permit, a migrant who has accumulated a certain number of points during his or her stay can count on it. Points are given, for example, for knowledge of the Russian language, receiving education in Russia, and high qualifications. The more points a person scores, the higher his chances of obtaining a residence permit.

--What is not satisfactory about the existing quota system?

— It is necessary to ensure that the quota procedure actually contributes to the legalization of migrants. Now, on the contrary, this mechanism takes them into the illegal field. We know how many foreign citizens come to us and work. Every year this is about 6 million people, of which 2.5 million work legally and about 3.5 million or slightly more work illegally. Today, quotas, which involve filing applications from the regions and their approval by the government, take up to 8 months, and with all the preparatory activities - up to a year. The employer, therefore, does not have the ability to quickly attract the necessary personnel. We are now thinking about how to reform the system. So far I see two points that need to be paid attention to. Firstly, when applying for any vacancy, it is necessary to set priority for a Russian citizen, and secondly, when publishing a vacancy, it is necessary to determine the normal salary. We conducted monitoring: the salary of a janitor in Moscow is 15 thousand rubles, although the average salary in the capital is 52 thousand rubles. What Russian will work for 15 thousand as a janitor? This is a question for employers. Of course, if a person with a Russian passport does not apply for a vacancy, after some time it may be filled by a foreign citizen. In this case, it is necessary to determine the proportion of foreign citizens who can work in a particular field of employment.

— What is the essence of the law on migration registration?

“We are talking about creating a system at the federal level that will combine information about issued passports, place of residence and change of place of residence. Now this information is concentrated at the regional level.

— After the events in Biryulyovo, deputies proposed expanding the capabilities of the FMS. Are you really missing features? If yes, which ones?

— We are not complaining about the lack of functions. The deputies' proposal is to give the FMS the function of inquiry. This needs to be thought through and discussed with the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Prosecutor General's Office, and the Investigative Committee. It is necessary to understand how best to do this so as not to give rise to a new power structure, not to give birth to a new apparatus of officials. But we are ready. I think this might be useful. For example: we must monitor and suppress the organization of illegal migration. Who is the organizer of illegal migration? This is a person who, in essence, takes people into slavery. In order for a criminal case to be opened against such a person, it is necessary to draw up documents, and the quality of the documents that we prepare is insufficient. If the inspector were responsible for the quality of materials that come to the court, the efficiency of the work would be much higher, because the inspector would be responsible for the final result. Roughly speaking, if you handed over documents that were not used to convict you, then you have rejected the case. But, in order to discuss the issue of vesting the FMS with additional powers, it is necessary to carry out the necessary calculations, which relate, for example, to expanding the staff.

— As the situation with the camp in Golyanovo showed, problems are not only with identifying migrants, but also with their deportation. There is no place to keep people. What are you doing?

— Ersatz camps will not solve the problem. This is a temporary and uncivilized approach that will not bring any good to anyone, but will only harm – including in terms of image. I'm against it. It must be done thoroughly, legally, so that citizens are there not as animals, but as people. As for Moscow, there is a catastrophic lack of centers for holding migrants. The head of the capital's Federal Migration Service is trying to increase their number. The city leadership hears us and helps.

— In 2014, the Federal Migration Service will take over all centers for holding migrants, which are now under the jurisdiction of the police. How many centers should earn in total?

— Half of the migrant detention centers will be created anew, and we will receive half from the police. In total, 81 special centers should be introduced in Russia. They build, create and equip their regions.

— What will the conditions of detention be like there? Like in the bullpen or like in Golyanovo?

- Much softer. There should be an area for walking, a much easier regime. We must adhere to international standards.

— Nowadays there is a lot of talk about the situation at the destroyed vegetable warehouse in Biryulyovo. What are these enterprises, they say, a breeding ground for illegal immigrants, etc. Do you share these sentiments?

— As for the vegetable warehouse, we checked it on September 26 of this year and found 22 illegal migrants there. Yes, it is difficult to document, yes, it is difficult to resist, but we are working. Our goal is not the number of deportees, but to influence the employer. In this matter, the position of the owners and the position of the municipal authorities is extremely important. Well, did the district authorities not know that such an enterprise was operating on their territory? I don’t believe that our citizens could not work at the same vegetable warehouse.

— It is beneficial for employers to attract cheap labor. Are you going to introduce any measures, including legislative ones, towards employers?

— Fines for employers who violate migration laws were recently increased to 1 million rubles. for violators in Moscow, Moscow region, St. Petersburg and Leningrad region. If there are signs of violation of the law, cases must be initiated. We will soon have the first application of this law. We carried out an inspection at one of the construction sites in Moscow on Varshavskoye Shosse - a shopping complex is being built there. We identified 85 migrants who worked at this construction site without permits. If we take into account that for each migrant there is 1 million rubles, the total amount is 85 million rubles. fine, which is €2 million. Will this bite the employer?

- It will bite, but you don’t bite often. Disproportionate to the way you bite the workers.

— Employers have a lot of serums against our bites. They and law firms hire us, sue us, and oppose us in all directions. Of course, it’s more difficult with employers. They have legal and financial resources.

What conclusions did the FMS make after the pogroms in Biryulyovo?

“The head of the Federal Migration Service for the Southern Administrative District, Grozovskaya, and her deputy, the head of the FMS Biryulyovo Zapadnoye branch, have been relieved of their positions,” Mr. Romodanovsky said on October 16. According to him, they were fired “for shortcomings in their work.” Earlier, Mr. Romodanovsky spoke out against an amnesty for illegal migrants: “This will not do any good and will only create unnecessary problems.” The head of the FMS also noted that more than 3 million foreigners entered Russia legally, but they work without complying with labor laws: “these are candidates for potential entry closure.” Read more

Interview conducted by Vyacheslav Kozlov

"There must be a civilized whip"