Translated material
"Russian march" or migrant march?
COLTA.RU continues the “response” section: the respected people answer a question that was ardently discussed this week. A few days ago, the Migrant Federation abandoned the idea of holding a rally previously stated on November 4. But on the Day of National Unity in Moscow, the “Russian March” will go. The question remains open. "Russian march" or migrant march: who do you sympathize with? With whom could you unite on the day of popular unity - and why?
Alexander Baunov
Dmitry Olshansky
Ilya Budraitskis
Boris Karelitsky
Alexander Gavrilov
Vyacheslav Kuritsyn
Mikhail Buster
Alena Vladimir
Sergey Davidis
Anton Nosik
Pavel Vlasov-Mdulyash
Mikhail Kaluga
Nikolai Klimenyuk
Kirill Medvedev
Alexander Urzhanov
Natalia Osipova
Dmitry Butrin
Alexander Baunov
Philologist, journalist
It seems to me that we are again trying to form two packages, seal them and everyone to inscribe them with some name. If a person does not go to the “Russian march” and does not consider migrants a terrible evil, then he must certainly be against the visa regime, believes that migration is an exclusively restaurant multipulturalism, and thinks about unhappy migrants, how to help them do something beautiful. However, you can be against the "Russian march" and at the same time not assume that we will melt in fascism tomorrow. There is a kind of temptation after Biryulev and before the “Russian march” to say that we again differ from the whole world towards the most terrible, ridiculous and dangerous for all of humanity. But we, in general, do not stand out for the worse against the background of mankind regarding relations with strangers, came: this is visible both in numbers and in conversations. There is no need to be afraid of Russian fascism more than it is worth it. Talking about what a formidable Russian fascism is thickening around, you can, firstly, scare migrants and turn them into a much more united, afraid of a separate group. Secondly, we tell the authorities and other politicians where to go for folk support. We want to hack evil in the root, so that everyone is on their guard, and on the other hand, and we scare people more than we need (the first thing the Chinese knows about Russia, even the Chinese manager or Taiwanese, is that the skinheads will beat him there), and give the authorities and politicians to move in this direction: because the intelligentsia writes, this is how the people are nationalistically tuned, nowhere. Strength, that's where popularity is, that's what you need to play.
And the people are actually more calm than we portray. He wants more order than to kill all strangers. The inconsistency of the “Russian marches” does not mean that all police, border measures are automatically recorded in the category of fascism. Without sympathizing with the pogroms, nevertheless, one can quite soberly relate to police measures. In the end, it is more difficult for me to go to Europe than a person from Central Asia or Transcaucasia to go to Russia. If I was illegal in any European country, I will be unsympathetic with all my ancient Greek. Then I must, we must consider the government of some Netherlands by the Nazis. And the EU is a fascist organization. And if they are not a fascist organization, you can discuss police measures, deportation of illegal immigrants, temporary centers, visa regime and not be a fascist. The sympathy for migrants in the sense that they cannot be beaten, that they have the right to search for universal happiness, is not obliged to turn into some leftist sobs, that Europe should everyone because it is rich in the poor environment, and Russia should because it is now richer than the dozen neighbors. And yesterday I was poorer, but I don’t remember about this in the same 98th year, when I studied in Germany, conversations in the spirit of "let's help with the whole world and regret." The conversations were completely different: you can’t organize life at home - so you go to us. And that we give you all the money (this is about the IMF loans), but all to no avail.
And the holiday is completely stupid. Who should we unite on the day of popular unity? We cannot determine what kind of nation we are: civil, imperial, national state, etc. The national state does not work within the current borders, it seems indecent to speak about the imperial nation, and then the emperor, to whom the peoples will swear allegiance. Some kind of such civilian nation remains. Maybe it is worth uniting around not to scare each other? Residents of Russia are not very friendly in themselves not only to migrants, but also to each other. Here we need to introduce the day of universal friendliness, the day of ontological altruism: a holiday, when you recognize someone else’s, the other equal to yourself, all (regardless of belief, orientations and origin) - useful citizens of the Fatherland. And not only useful, but harmful to others. I also have unity. It will be quite evangelical, church and Orthodox.
Dmitry Olshansky
publicist
If we reason abstractly theoretically, then, of course, I could only sympathize with the “Russian march”. The march of migrants, which is also supported by the authorities, is generally some kind of glaring arrogance and absurdity, possible only in our country. But besides ideology and theories, there is also everyday practice. The recognition of rightness and proximity is not the same thing, and therefore I can recognize the correctness of Russian nationalism in this case, but I can identify with those who are here and now - this is either adolescents with aggressive inclinations, or peaceful, but strongly injured by the “conspiracy” and “bad Jews”, people are not able to. In general, I think that the intelligentsia does not have “their” side in the conflict of the Russian people with the Eurasian peoples. Eurasian peoples are wrong with a circle, the Russians, in turn, are right, but behind their innocence there are such social alien and such aggression that the goose of the pig, of course, is an ally against a butcher, but in general it is not a comrade. So, alas, I will not visit anyone's marches.
Ilya Budraitskis
Artist, historian, publicist
This solemn “day” itself is a gross, but without failure -working design, created to reproduce false models of unity and opposition: unity with the authorities and the police - and the confrontation of the indigenous inhabitants and dark -faced strangers, which violate the traditions of our supposedly harmonious and proven collective hostel. I dream of the day when the self -propelled unity of the elite of all colors and shades will withstand the unity of all those working for pennies and humiliated by lawlessness. When the people themselves act on behalf of the people - the majority who has nothing to share and nothing to lose, except for their chains, fear and criminal hatred of each other.
Boris Karelitsky
Sociologist, political scientist, publicist
I think that the fourth day needs to stay at home. Do reading books, listening to music or self -improvement. Because there is no such holiday on November 4 and cannot be. A holiday is not that the authorities declared a holiday, but what has grown from real history, from real life, and that a significant part of society considers a sign date for itself. In this case, on November 4, in fact, the holiday of Russian nationalists and fascists became. Moreover, among Russian nationalists - namely the most extreme, extremist and ultra -right, parts. The authorities presented them with this date, and in fact there is no other meaning than the “day of the Russian fascist”, this date no longer has and will not be. Therefore, if we now have no opportunity to cover the “Russian March”, then there is a need to work on changes in society. But this is not a question of one day, this is a matter of long and serious work.
About the possible march of migrants. Purely theoretically, sooner or later, migrants will become immigrants, and when they become immigrants, they will become Russians. And accordingly they will feel like a part of a society, which, of course, will achieve their rights. But for this, they, I repeat, must become immigrants. This is a fundamental thing, which in our discussions carefully costs. Indeed, in fact, the situation in Russia has almost nothing to do with the situation, for example, in France, despite the seeming similarity. People who come to Russia for three to five months are people who have no interests in Russian society. And therefore, they put up with discrimination, terrible, inhuman working conditions - because it is all temporary for them and has nothing to do with their life strategy and long -term interests. Moreover, this fits into their life to some extent: to suffer three months to earn to feed the family and relatives for at least a year or two. Really resistance from this social layer, which can be defined as foreign workers, will begin from the moment when they begin to grab the roots here if their life strategy will stay here and live here. They will not have any other way out, except to resist. But this will happen at the moment when they stop migrating. While this does not happen, there is no reason to count on serious resistance. This is the first moment. And the second-just that part of the foreign immigrants who took the roots-these are, as a rule, not migrant workers, but, as they say, gastgeshefters, that is, a small bourgeoisie, which again will not be organized on the principle of ethnic solidarity, because in fact they will be able to swim, give bribes, etc. - This is normal for them, given their material capabilities.
Alexander Gavrilov
Literary critic, journalist
And there is no spare bench? I do not like the idea of any of these marches, and I do not think that the problems that are faced with Russia and Moscow are, first of all, the collapse and self -removal from the prescribed activity of the entire state (in the person, for example, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FMS, their passport tables, etc.) - so, these problems cannot be solved by separate, pre -emptive or even joint walking.
Vyacheslav Kuritsyn
writer, journalist, literary critic
I am sorry for both. Everyone, as is customary to express, has their own truth. It is reasonable to unite with those who are close, you need to protect your local group.
Mikhail Buster
Artist, designer
I try to stay away from these booths, from my point of view, absolutely speculative and provoking tantrums in virtual and the media, although the question itself is very serious and, conversely, requires a sober assessment and a series of consistent comprehensive solutions. And here, already in the first question, a double standard and categoricality are laid. As in one Soviet film - "Are you for the Communists or for the Bolsheviks?" In this situation, when all this booth can be interpreted and lead in any direction, as Pop Gapon once made, for anyone. So, passing by - shrugged. Many migrate now, including indigenous Muscovites to America, or, for example, on Bali, or to the hinterland, in search of a better life, comfort or idleness. Talented, educated residents are moved to other cities and from other cities to study and work - these are all different people. With what fright I should put this category of migrants and immigrants on the same regiment with wild (even in the opinion of the same migrants and culturally integrated, educated representatives of Moscow families, clans and diasporas) of various Asia?! Let's be honest, at least once to separate the flies from the cutlets and recognize that here, in Moscow, some “migrants” now mean nothing more than a new city subculture, vulgarly called by many “dagi”, “hachi”, “black”, from the Soviet corruption 70s, which is now engaged in completely aggressive self-affirmation in the cultural space, and from this subculture, and from this subculture Dear, educated, compactly living families and diasporas that locally retain their roots and traditions are rejected. On the other hand, we are observing the active media politicization of this problem, which is nothing more than the release of a couple instead of solving problems. I do not see anything strange that the really serious unrest of the lower classes reacting to street violence and corruption first of all, and then to the mentioned “subculture of migrants”, break through through this media cap. Here I, no matter how strange it may seem, for order, and the pyramidal, and on the drum, on what values this “correctness” will be built in theory, if only there would be simple, efficient rules, clear and executable to everyone. Founded on local culture, excuse me, but it is and has been working for a long time, which does not interfere with it to take it to a new, better round. Then the marches will not be needed, and the lower classes will be automatically rebuilt, as it was during my youth, when the sports and the Melomanian subcultures were quite international, absorbed both bohemia and the “limit” and were at a different level of communication and culture of the urban. It is high time to develop all these rules again and introduce from above. For almost 30 years we have been living in another country, and instead, many stomp for decades (!) At rallies. I’m not up to nonsense (marches), so I can offer a new form - the united march of Russian migrants. At the same time, together and decide on the concept of "Russianness". Now this question here is no less problematic and confused. Here I will easily join the Muscovites march - here everything is transparent to me and clearly according to the requirements and levels. In the meantime, regarding the unification with virtual communities, he is forced to stay in the positions of the Muscovite-individualist with the most efficient rule "Bely Belykh until they turn red, Beat the Reds until they beat." You look, and the larvae from the gapons creep, and the general understanding of the problems will be added from this.
Alena Vladimir
Heedhanter, founder of Pruffi
With no one. I am wildly ashamed of the country, for the city, for our present, if the national question has become so active again. And the point is not only that I am just afraid - I am a Jewish, my mother’s maiden name is surprise, but the matter is more: it means that history does not teach anything. Each person invents his universe from scratch, and the Universe of many of my friends admits internal Auschwitz.
Sergey Davidis
Lawyer, sociologist, human rights activist
It seems to me that this is a false choice, I do not associate myself with any of these events. The “Russian march” always pours into the triumph of aggressive xenophobia, completely meaningless. Well, the march of migrants is not clear what. If we are talking about human rights, then, of course, yes, but they must be observed in relation to migrants in the same way as in relation to anyone. But in principle, the choice is false. Unfortunately, only two historical positions were formed: aggressive xenophobia, with which it was not to deal with a decent person, and vice versa - a complete refusal to recognize any problems in the interethnic sphere, in the field of migration. This is a false dichotomy, and this issue comes to some extent from it. I do not share it. You can and should look for solutions to the problem, but it should be a game in which both parties win. Migration regulation should be, of course, in the interests of Russian citizens. At the same time, a violation of human rights recorded by international conventions, the Russian Constitution, including migrants, is unacceptable. Ethnic discrimination, discrimination on a religious basis is unacceptable. Therefore, I choose the only approach that does not imply association of myself with either the march of migrants or with the "Russian march".
Anton Nosik
journalist, startup manager, public figure
It’s strange for me to go to the “Russian March” - I am against Nazism in all its manifestations, and I have nothing to do on the march of migrants: I was born in Moscow, and my parents were born here. So I will stay at home, with your permission.
Pavel Vlasov-Mdulyash
Internet entrepreneur, CEO of Media2 and Migrtesen companies
In general, I do not like the crowd and walking, we won’t get good from this, and the personality is erased. But if you choose, then I - for migrants, who has been born in Moscow Russian, they do not interfere, but only help, performing the right work. Unlike some fellow citizens. I hope that there will be smart and indifferent people who will be able to integrate migrants in our society, this is a very real task.
Mikhail Kaluga
journalist
In any case, I would not choose on November 4, because this is not the date for which I would go with someone. This new holiday is completely empty, there is no content in it, and even on November 7 it did not replace. And it is completely clear why he is more and more associated with the “Russian march”-it is artificially invented by someone, there is no living, relevant historical content behind him, and it is simply used by people who organize this “Russian march”.
Regarding the possible march of migrants. You know, I, in general, in general, in such a classic Soviet sense - a limiter. I came to Moscow to work 12 years ago, and I believe that it is much more natural to be a migrant for today's civilization than to live in agreement with the saying "where I was born, I was good." This is a more adequate state that describes social and cultural reality. A person who migrates is a model of a certain social mobility, a person who is ready to change something in himself in accordance with all kinds of modern realities. Для меня быть мигрантом — это правильное, едва ли не естественное состояние. Проблема миграции, проблема «свой — чужой» и другие оппозиции, которые здесь можно выставить, — это гораздо больше, чем проблема сегодняшней ксенофобии. Вот этот самый выбор между «Русским маршем» и маршем мигрантов ни в коей мере не описывает всю сложность нашего состояния как общества. Если попытаться разнимать эти клише, то среди мигрантов вообще мы найдем много русских, а среди русских — много мигрантов. Более того, между этими двумя типами еще будут десятки разных типов самоидентификации и социального поведения. Здесь нет какого-то решительного, однозначного противопоставления. Самое главное — не обращать внимания на придуманные праздники и выходить на митинги, когда этого требует политическая и экономическая ситуация. Марш в поддержку «узников Болотной» или гипотетический «марш пустых кастрюль» мне куда более понятен, чем «Русский марш» или марш мигрантов.
Николай Клименюк
journalist
Я принципиально не хожу на согласованные мероприятия. Я считаю, что согласованные мероприятия в том виде, в котором они проходят сейчас, — это не демонстрации протеста, а демонстрации покорности и подчинения.
Кирилл Медведев
поэт, переводчик, издатель
Разумеется, я готов объединиться с мигрантами, если моя поддержка будет уместна и если это не будет митинг «мигранты в поддержку Путина и Собянина», то есть очередной обман и профанация.
Меня поражает, что поднятый предвыборной волной «европейский» «визовый» национализм разъедает мозги и волю в том числе людей, кажущихся самим себе воплощением интеллектуальной респектабельности и здравого смысла, не говоря уже о звездах оппозиции от Лимонова до Навального, которые вместо того, чтобы прямо назвать небольшое количество погромщиков и убийц расистами и внятно объяснить всей остальной одураченной толпе ее заблуждения, отвратительно виляют и оправдывают погромную волну, надеясь оседлать ее.
Можно вспомнить, как на протяжении трех лет Первой мировой войны все, от откровенных ультраправых людоедов до либералов-кадетов, а также эсеров и правых меньшевиков, откровенно поддерживали шовинистическую дикость, заигрывали с ней или боялись идти поперек из тактических соображений, и только большевики с догматическим упорством твердили об интернационализме и пролетарской солидарности и во многом поэтому, кстати, победили — когда национал-шовинизм окончательно распался изнутри как гнилое чучело.
Сейчас, конечно, ситуация другая, новый национализм на подъеме, но сохранить политическую честность и возможность без стыда смотреть в глаза людям, с которыми ты родился в одной стране и чьим трудом пользуешься ежедневно, просто необходимо.
Не знаю, реализуется ли неожиданная инициатива марша мигрантов, но вечером 4 ноября я буду вместе с бывшими советскими музыкантами, а сегодня бесправными памирскими «гастарбайтерами» играть «Песню единого фронта» и памирские песни в клубе «Китайский летчик». Это скорее символический, культурный жест, но и шаг к новой политической солидарности.
Александр Уржанов
journalist
Ни с кем объединиться не готов.
Наталия Осипова
Journalist
Как журналист, пошла бы на оба марша.
Мигранты заявляют о себе как об отдельной политической и экономической силе, предъявляют солидарные требования, объединяются, участвуют в политике — как на уровне диалога с властью, так и на уровне уличных акций. Это — новое, и это новое будет определять развитие ситуации в России.
С другой стороны, «Русский марш» и тема русского национализма вышли из зоны маргиналии. Можно связывать перемену исключительно с фигурой Навального, который уже интегрирован в политическую систему (27 процентов голосов на выборах мэра Москвы — это не жук чихнул), можно объяснять происходящее нагнетаемой «силами зла» ксенофобской истерикой, можно даже придумать себе картину мира, в которой погром — традиционная ценность в России (Андрей Лошак в статье «Пароль: ненависть» так и написал: «Можно даже предположить, что погром для России — не менее традиционная ценность, чем, скажем, семья»; сейчас эта фраза из текста снята, но в первоначальном варианте была). Однако все эти объяснения наивны до степени самообмана. Развивается культурный, религиозный, экономический конфликт, который прорывается локальными стычками то в Пугачеве, то в Сагре, то в Бирюлеве. Стихийность не отменяет закономерности.
Нет инструмента — ни статистического, ни социологического, ни экономического, — позволяющего измерить степень напряжения между автохтонами и внутренними и внешними мигрантами. Уличные акции дают представление о происходящем.
Если требования «Русского марша» и мигрантского марша совпадают хоть в какой-то точке — скажем, выдвигаются требования о законодательном регулировании миграции, о введении виз, об обязательном медицинском страховании для въезжающих, о защите прав работника-мигранта, — то готова солидаризироваться и с теми, и с другими. Как гражданин, я предпочитаю видеть в своей стране не затравленного импортного раба, завезенного бизнесом, который сговорился с надзирающими инстанциями, демпингует на рынке труда, уходит от налогов и социальных выплат, но иностранца, приехавшего по трудовой визе и работающего по контракту, со страховкой, счетом в банке, легально снимающего жилье. В любом случае предпочитаю иметь дело не с общностью, а с человеком. Готова в индивидуальном порядке договариваться с отличным парнем Мишей, рассказывающим мне о своем табуне лошадей, который ждет его в Таджикистане, пока он белит мне стены, но не понимаю, как коммуницировать с тысячами людей, перегораживающих Минскую улицу или улицу Дурова по случаю мусульманского праздника.
Я согласна с прогнозом эксперта по этнополитическим процессам, профессора ВШЭ Эмиля Паина, который сказал, что «политическое развитие России будет проходить в рамках националистической парадигмы». То есть, утрируя, между маршем мигрантов и «Русским маршем». Задача интеллектуалов, на мой взгляд, в том, чтобы национализм в России развивался как гражданский национализм, как способ построения гражданской нации (эпоху модерна Россия пропустила, так что придется постмодернистски и догонять, и опережать), в том, чтобы уводить его в сторону от советско-имперского или ксенофобно-черепомерского. В широком смысле всем интеллектуалам придется идти на марш мигрантов и на «Русский марш», а не затыкать уши и не зажмуривать глаза. Собственно, опыт Бирюлева показал — если ты не идешь на марш, он приходит за тобой.
Дмитрий Бутрин
journalist
Я не вижу сейчас проблемы, ради которой имело бы смысл маршировать. Марш есть демонстрация кому-либо некоего числа людей, готовых в том числе грубой физической силой влиять на принятие каких-либо решений или проведение каких-либо действий. Сейчас марш мигрантов и «Русский марш» — близнецы-братья: оба призваны продемонстрировать свою скорее надуманную, чем реальную мощь не правительству, а друг другу, иными словами — негласную готовность к погрому и к ответному погрому. Флаг в руки, свобода — это в том числе и демонстрация готовности к агрессии, и она не может быть отменена или ограничена. Пока это аллегорические телодвижения — они должны быть разрешены. Но мне при всем сочувствии как к националистической программе, так и к мигрантам объединяться в двух маршах и синхронно производить аллегорические телодвижения не с кем и не в чем. Вот если кто-то организует марш добровольной санитарной команды — свистите, мое место в этой истории — только под белым флагом с красным крестом.
Подготовили Юлия Рыженко, Тамара Великоднева