Translated material
"Tax" conflict of the president and prime minister
Konstantin Smirnov: I think, firstly, that Putin said his “f” not only to Dmitry Medvedev, as we assume, but also a number of other people. In particular, the leadership of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs. Just remind you of the background of the conflict. In mid -October, a bill initiated by the President was introduced to the State Duma to return to the law enforcement agencies, primarily the Investigative Committee, as well as the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the opportunity to open cases of tax crimes.
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0:00 0:31:29Elena Rykovtseva: Medvedev once took this right.
Konstantin Smirnov: Yes, in 2011 this right was taken away. And now, just recently, on November 12, Medvedev recalled that a lot of things can be discouraged, as the security forces of the Investigative Committee did, before him the prosecutor's office. But not everyone reached the vessels. It was purely professionally difficult on the one hand, people were not very versed in tax law, tax practice to bring the case to court. This is a really painful thing for many law enforcement systems, not only in our country. Therefore, it was logical to give this to tax authorities. Some evil languages believe that I will not subscribe to this and say that it is so that the previous system, liquidated by Medvedev, was convenient for security forces. You never know what will reach the trial. At first he opened the case, received something, then closed the case.
Elena Rykovtseva: That is, a materially advantageous system, it is convenient to hang.
Konstantin Smirnov: By the way, in this regard, I would like to recall some of the figures that the FSIN gave at one time to the Commissioner for the Rights of Entrepreneurs Boris Titov. These numbers struck me greatly. In our country, it is somehow not customary to protect entrepreneurs, they are our enemies, we must do something with them. But so that it is clear to our listeners: during certain actions of law enforcement agencies, police, police, police, the Investigative Committee, so many enterprises were closed from 2009 to 2012, so many people fell on court, just a criminal prosecution, due to which the amnesty was announced, which was struck by Titov, about a thousand people released. But I was struck by the figure that in these three years two million jobs were eliminated! This is scary. I remember in 2000 I interviewed the then Deputy Minister of the Interior. The man was very worthy, decent. In an interview, he very much fell on the tax police that she was doing nothing, she has a thousand times less things than the Ministry of Internal Affairs, to disclose crimes. But on the other hand, the tax police had more.
Elena Rykovtseva: I would like to understand who forced Vladimir Putin to change the decision of Dmitry Medvedev, what influenced him, what motives and what forces?
Konstantin Smirnov: At the moment when Vladimir Putin spoke yesterday at the observation council of the Agency for Strategic Initiatives, just returning from South Korea, where he said the phrase that anyone did not like, they can leave the expert community after Alexei Kudrin, at the same time a meeting of the Stolypin club, which is usually “Business Russia”, has not been holding for a long time, and here for a long time, but here for about a year, but here for about a year, but here Three prominent people gathered, that is, Titov, the former head of “Business Russia”, Mikhail Prokhorov and Alexei Kudrin. Alexei Kudrin began to speak, then Prokhorov, then handed the floor to Titov. He said that “I hope that Titov’s words will not affect his fate as Kudrin’s words influenced.” That is, those words that he pronounces in the defense of the business, businessmen will not lead to the fact that he will lose his post - approximately so sounded. This explains the situation a little. Firstly, to say who occupies what position is now difficult - they are afraid, everyone is afraid. Many independent experts or observers, as it was fashionable to say, notice that the performances of the three of the above people were somewhat erased, and they basically repeated the same words that they spoke earlier. There is some kind of intellectual impasse among experts, in the expert community, there are no brilliant ideas, like ten years ago. Here, apparently, fatigue and a lack of fresh blood, it seems to me, and the fear of losing what you have already made in the personal plan. But the fact is that the problems are not solved, the situation is deteriorating, including in the economic field. As you know, GDP growth rate fell to 1.3 this year, they are unlikely to overcome this bar, industry in stagnation, especially processing, it even falls, salaries grow extremely slowly, and if they grow, then due to budget industries, at the expense of military personnel, police officers and so on. In the private sector, salaries do not grow about 5-6 years. The situation is difficult, it is not solved, we need some cardinal solutions. We need a change of course, the change of president, for example. But they are afraid to say everything. And since they are afraid to say, respectively, there is no program behind this. Therefore, people from liberal circles begin to protect the last thing they have. In response, the Investigative Committee and his leader Bastrykin just showing the initiative. In February, he proposed creating a financial police, about which his colleague Minister of Justice Konovalov said that we have different proposals in Russia, they especially love the oprichnina. That is, they did not want their sharp strengthening of this person. Indeed, the Investigative Committee is a very powerful structure and why not create the same financial police with you or, conversely, if the financial police cannot be obtained, let's return the functions of opening criminal cases in tax very tasty cases, as they say. Because any person can be pressed, in taxes you can always make a mistake on this person, an entrepreneur with red -handed.
Elena Rykovtseva: Konstantin, you very clearly explain why the Investigative Committee is needed - I understand this well. But why does Vladimir Putin take such a position?
Konstantin Smirnov: And who to rely on Vladimir Putin? He himself left the security forces. Remember, when he came to power 13 years ago, they only discussed, even earlier, when he was the prime minister.
Elena Rykovtseva: That is, just a priori, because he will always be in a dispute between liberals and security forces to support the security forces?
Konstantin Smirnov: It seems to me that he, as an experienced leader, never sides the side of a wing - this is wrong for the president. And here he can make a compromise decision. For example, they will accept a bill or law, but it turns out that it is not realized. Something may be returned, or maybe this right to open a criminal case will not be fully returned. Other proposals regarding the tightening of criminal legislation in this area may not pass. There are different options here.
Elena Rykovtseva: Putin, of course, will never say aloud what I am for the feeding trough for the Investigative Committee, I am again for this feeding trough. He will not say that, he says differently that the budget needs to be replenished, that the budget is poorly replenished since they gave it to the tax committee.
Konstantin Smirnov: You are absolutely right, felt for the outer point of the macroeconomic dispute. What to do next? So, taxes are gathering worse, shortage for VAT, shortage of income tax, people are increasingly going into the shadows.
Elena Rykovtseva: Taxes began to gather worse from the moment they gave relief, how did these functions take these functions from the Investigative Committee? This is recorded, there is such statistics that therefore, taxes began to gather worse?
Konstantin Smirnov: I have not seen such statistics, neither in 11 nor in 12, this was not the case. The situation worsened in the 13th. But she worsened not because they began to open less cases, but because, firstly, the economic situation worsened, the profit of enterprises decreased, so the income tax was not going. Plus, as the head of the Accounts Chamber Tatyana Golikova says, a number of changes were not quite successful in the VAT collecting mechanism, and even these changes were introduced not from the beginning of the tax year, not from January 1, but from July 1, and it just notes that problems with the collection of VAT began on July 1. There are problems with the Pension Fund, with its shortage and so on. That is, many problems and they can be solved in different ways. For example, let's declare a tax amnesty, everyone leaves the shadows, everyone pays off at small rates that they did not pay, and then pay in full. For example, if there are offshore accounts, they closed them, and before that he revealed all his beneficiaries, all the people with whom he was in connection and so on, which is quite unreal, and I think Putin will not go for it. And there is another approach. Yes, of course, no one argues that it is necessary to tighten the punishment of those people who violate tax legislation, no one argues with this. The head of the tax department, however, does not determine the policy of the Ministry of Finance, he fulfills it, he has the phrase this one has come from 11 years: we are not a power structure, we are a service structure, we do not force to pay taxes, we help citizens pay taxes. By the way, all the improvements even in various ratings from the World Bank, there are two aspects on which we have advanced - the connection to the networks literally in one year, but even earlier the tax discipline in the country has really improved, there are fewer all kinds of problems. In my opinion, the trend was correct. But, apparently, Bastrykin proved Putin, or people close to both of them, which is better to be harder now. We have a crisis ahead, let's work. But this is unrealistic, just scattering where, abroad. Many businessmen abroad, who have squeezed business people in uniform.
Elena Rykovtseva: I understand correctly that besides Dmitry Medvedev, who expressed his position and received hands, there is no one else to resist this point of view?
Konstantin Smirnov: The RSPP also opposed, but not so bright and tough. They tried to do this through deputies and so on.
Elena Rykovtseva: There were no certain statements.
Konstantin Smirnov: So far, they are afraid. Note, 10 years ago, in Putin’s first presidency, certain deputies who supported other forces, the same representatives of the RSPP, they opposed certain initiatives, blocked. And here it is fashionable, on the contrary, it is more to overshadow than to unlearn, to go too far. That is, the Duma figures are even more too much more than the president. Therefore, the prospects of this tax project are brilliant. But we do not know until the end of the vicissitudes of the struggle under the carpet. Mikhail Fradkov, as the prime minister, naturally supported him by the security forces, such a powerful power ram, but the liberal power ram, he himself always held not the most powerful views, he was happy for the treasury, for the interests of the budget, the country. He supported the whole business. In 2006, Putin convinces that it is necessary to strictly reduce VAT from at least 13% of at least 13. There were business surveys, of course, the business, of course, did not agree by 13, but by 10. I convinced. As I was told, I almost signed the draft decree, the bill to the Code had to be submitted. Then Alexei Leonidovich came in, who proved that this cannot be done. Maybe he was right, we do not know now. Suddenly, until the age of 8, the business would not have been spinning, it would not come out of the shadows, the collection did not increase. In any case, he convinced him then. Before the meeting, Kudrin, the Minister of Finance, then still Deputy Prime Minister, the chairman of the RSPP Shokhin said that you deceived us. You promised this or that and that and did not do it. The relief of tax administration was not so fast, some things were done only now, there was no VAT reduction. Reduced later.
Elena Rykovtseva: That is, then Kudrin on the principle of “better a tit in his hands”. I wonder on which side he is now - Medvedev or Putin hated by him? Logically, he should be on the side of Medvedev.
Konstantin Smirnov: Yesterday he was obvious on his side when he performed at the Stolypinsky club. The support of the Medvedev position is not clear, but it was.
Elena Rykovtseva: Maybe he will be able to convince Putin again, only in the opposite direction?
Konstantin Smirnov: It is unlikely. On the one hand, he was promoted to Putin, he became a member of the Presidential Presidium Presidium, which means he will meet more often. But on the other hand, Putin threatened his example. Kudrin is an experienced person, knows the president well, tries not to play with fire. Even, I think, I am not afraid for myself. Alexey Kudrin was distinguished by great personal masculinity, he was never a coward and so on, for the sake of himself, he does nothing like that. It seems to me that he is trying not to spoil the matter for which he works, he does within this framework in this team - in the president’s team, he is not a member of the opposition. In this regard, even Prokhorov has more opportunities for maneuver, although he, too, does not go to exacerbate.
Elena Rykovtseva: How do you regard the reputation damage that Dmitry Medvedev suffered now? I am not a specialist, it is difficult for me to evaluate what this story meant, taking these functions from the TFR in his system, which he then built?
Konstantin Smirnov: In my eyes, Medvedev just grew up, because for some years he expressed a clear, clear position.
Elena Rykovtseva: So it was very important for him.
Konstantin Smirnov: Again, I am not a member of the power elite, I am a liberal intellectual, so I will say that in my eyes he grew up. As for the elite, which makes certain decisions or uses to make favorable decisions, probably in their eyes it is a blow that says that Medvedev’s resignation is coming soon. This was discussed in June of this year, when Putin voiced the idea of merging of the courts, and they said that supposedly near Medvedev this was done so quickly, powerfully. If this is true, then Putin once again publicly pulled him. The prime minister, who depends on the president, he can dismiss him at any moment, and the chairman of the court, and even united, is not very simple.
Elena Rykovtseva: In this case, the influence is incomparable.
Konstantin Smirnov: How to say. Of course, our judicial system is in a difficult situation and it is very bad that the judicial system is overloaded, often performs the functions unusual for it. Moreover, Yakovlev, the former chairman of the Arbitration Court, is now adviser to Putin, said that in many cases, they transfer certain functions in the field of housing and communal services, the appeal of citizens and the like. They do not want to do anything, afraid that there will be some kind of seats, and then the court decided, then he decided so. Nevertheless, one or another decision of the United Court, the Supreme Court with the functions of the arbitration, can very far go well, you can’t cancel it so simply. In all countries, the chairmen of the Supreme Courts have enormous powers and weight.
Elena Rykovtseva: Not here yet. It can be said that this warning not to get stirred when they did not ask. This was the first warning. If it will be a second time, if he turns out to be incomprehensible, the presidential decision will once again challenge, then there will be a resignation.
Konstantin Smirnov: Close to this, indeed. But then again, no one expected, Medvedev did not just say that a few days ago, probably the struggle continued. Moreover, the president was not in this country, here he considered it possible to express his opinion. Maybe he said so publicly, and most likely it will be so. He opened the door of this kitchen, which is not bad for us, ordinary citizens.