Translated material
The security forces take power in "tents"
Olga Romanova: It’s even ridiculous to remember that we were so naive and thought.
Elena Rykovtseva: They have ceased to be naive, no longer lists.
Olga Romanova: It is quite difficult to see not a kagbeshnik. This is the same, for example, as with these "black lists" of judges, prosecutors, investigative employees. It is impossible to make a black list, make white, and show at least one surname there.
Elena Rykovtseva: We will start with a situation that occurs at these minutes in Moscow in an office, where the Commissioner for Human Rights Vladimir Lukin. Now there is a slaughterhouse, a fight. The fact is that a larger number of security officials somehow wedged into this public commission than human rights defenders. How did this happen, what was the mechanism for the formation of this commission, how did it happen that the commission is called public, and most of the security forces?
Olga Romanova: What happened in which was the great master Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev. Although, of course, he has quite a nickname that I really like-“insignificant”, but he did in order to discredit some remaining, small grown green sprouts, a lot. For example, the notorious liberalization of criminal legislation is called “Medvedev liberalization”, “Medvedev thaw”. And it got worse. It was Medvedev who introduced such a concept as the PMC.
Elena Rykovtseva: He did not think that it would become worse, he was not on purpose.
Olga Romanova: He was not on purpose, he simply did not know, could not, he could not. Public Supervisory Commission.
Elena Rykovtseva: appeared just with him in 2008.
Olga Romanova: Yes. Firstly, first public "tents" appeared, in which in the regions they are appointed local authorities, and in Moscow they are appointed from the Kremlin.
Elena Rykovtseva: But this is a Putin toy.
Olga Romanova: Putin's toy. Andrei Konchalovsky, who, for example, although he was appointed to the Public Chamber from the very beginning, did not come down to the character with Surkov and was quickly removed from this public chamber. Social activists appointed in the Kremlin choose social activists who can go to prison. This is terrible in fact the distraction of people from the main thing. I tried to find an analogue of our PMC in all prisons, I could not find, the people I asked: who has the right to go to prison? They are surprised at the question: how who is? Who wants to. Well, for example, an old woman lives next to the prison, who seems to be shouting at night because they are trying torture. If the old woman is in her mind, she will not go to jail to press, she will go to the police and say: you know, at night I hear screams, let's go to prison together. The old woman understands that the head of the prison can deceive her, he, of course, will show her everything, but he can deceive. Anyone has the right to find out how in the country where he lives, human rights are respected. Any citizen has the right to know. And the appointment of authorized ones is a restriction of our rights to know.
Elena Rykovtseva: I will remind the radio listeners as a wide audience learned about the existence of the PMC. The same councils are not the most promoted bodies so that every counterclaim knows that there is such a public observation commission in Moscow. How did you know? Because there was a high -profile case of Leonid Razvoszhaev, who did not understand how he ended up in Kyiv, and then do not understand how in Moscow. And the only ones who were allowed to access this prison were members of this commission. So they learned about them, they became famous in the same day. And at the same time, the points of view of two members of the commission of Borshchev and Tsvetkov, who are just competing for this place, on the problem of Razvojaeva, were polarly dispersed. One said that they tortured, and the second said: he was fine, everything is in order.
Olga Romanova: Firstly, one and a half thousand people have the right to go to prison unhindered only in Moscow. These are deputies of the State Duma, these are the Moscow City Duma, these are the most diverse authorized ones, and we have a lot of them, plus members of the supervisory boards. We have a wild number of people have the right, but do not use it. They don’t care, they have it, they have no it. The PMC included people who do not care. In addition to Valery Borshchev, a very famous person, very respected, he is from that cohort of human rights activists, who, unfortunately, are leaving us by age. This is Zoya Svetova, a person who has blood in the veins. This is Volkova’s love, this is Anna Karenikova. These are people with a crystal reputation, these are people who see what is happening, and they cannot otherwise. By this, they quite significantly complicate the life of jailers who are subject to all Russian diseases - corruption, cruelty, sadism, not compliance with laws, and so on. And in prison, all this blooms with lush color, because there are walls, and they believe that they are not visible.
Width PX Height PX
The url has been copied to your clipboard
No Media Source Currently Available
0:00 0:55:03Elena Rykovtseva: Zoya Svetova with us in touch. Please tell us what you decided on this commission?
Zoya Svetova: You just called at the final moment when the vote passes for Anton Tsvetkov. And then, as in Dostoevsky’s novel, “their own” remained. Remember, in Dostoevsky’s novel “Demons”. There are people who represent the wing of Anton Tsvetkov, representatives of various organizations “Honor”, the Union of Russian officers, and so on. 23 people voted for Anton Tsvetkova. 17 people left the Belarus Hall about 10 minutes ago, the meeting room of the parliamentary assembly, which I consider quite symbolic. Because the Circus Shapito took place here, because there was the alignment of the forces that was in advance during the election of members of the Public Chamber. 23 people are the proteges of the power wing, the so-called “young human rights activists”, if you say correctly, these are security officials, and 17 people are human rights activists who understand what human rights are. So, with every vote there was such an accurate alignment. Therefore, at some point, these 17 people left.
Elena Rykovtseva: Zoya, you knew from the very beginning that it would happen, the alignment did not go away.
Zoya Svetova: It was clear from the very beginning. It’s just that Tsvetkov was offered a compromise so that he agreed to change the regulations so that there was a chairman and co -chair. Because it is clear that Borschev could be the chairman and two co -chair of flowers and grandmother. But Tsvetkov did not go to this, because he really wants to be a chairman. He needs this purely for PR, in order to further make his human rights career. Now they are clapping because the flowers are chosen by a majority vote. This is an absolute disgrace that takes place today in this hall of meetings of the Parliamentary Assembly. This is the point that is set. Today I wrote about this in the article “New Times”: in the country where the Chekists are in power, the Chekists also become human rights activists. So everything fell into place. Of course, we will work, I will work in this commission, I am not going anywhere. We are absolutely independent. The chairman is a bureaucratic position, purely for PR, in order to talk to his many regalia everywhere, that he is the chairman of the PMC.
Elena Rykovtseva: Zoya, not everything is so simple. I realized that you are changing the regulations. If earlier you could go to prison without permission, now you must ask your chairman.
Zoya Svetova: We will walk in the same way without permission, because the regulation is adopted by the old one. If something is changed, then we will sue. There was simply a raider seizure of the commission. The journalists who were present saw it very well.
Olga Romanova: Who remained of old people?
Zoya Svetova: While everyone was staying, we have not gone anywhere. We left, so as not to take part in this disgrace, in this vote. We stay in the commission. Until we are expelled, we will stay.
Elena Rykovtseva: The results are recognized as valid when so much does not vote?
Zoya Svetova: Of course. They have a quorum, and therefore they elected such a commission. This was originally laid down, they illegally shared people who are real human rights activists, young journalists. Members of the Union of Journalists, whom no one knows, entered there. The only well-known journalists are Eva Merkacheva from the Moscow Komsomolets, a very good journalist, but for some reason she also turned out to be with Tsvetkov. Well, to do, this is her right. It seems to me that the worst thing is that it happened here, that the prisoners will not trust this commission, they will not trust human rights activists at all. Because security officials cannot be human rights activists. We have quite a lot of prisons in Moscow, but there are only two prisons where the security forces are sitting. And so much - 23 members of the PMC, too many to protect their security forces. They will profane work, they will do their own business in this commission. They want a consulting council of journalists. This will all be done for PR.
Elena Rykovtseva: If only for PR. They lie, they come and call black. On the example of the same Razvozhaev, this is a very bright story.
Zoya Svetova: Until we were expelled from this commission, we will still enter it. I believe that we cannot drive us out of here according to the law. I think that the Commissioner for Human Rights Vladimir Lukin and the chairman of the Human Rights Council Mikhail Fedotov should express their attitude to what happened here. Today, there was a raider seizure of our commission, a profanity of voting occurred. Probably, only in the State Duma it happens when on all issues the same layout 23 to 17. Tsvetkov proposed a compromise solution: if there is a group in the commission, then a compromise can be observed, Borschev could be a chairman, there would be two co -chair. When I asked Tsvetkova: why are you going to the chairmen? He did not answer me. He said that the chairman has no authority, he has only duties. This phrase is recorded on the recorder. Let's see how it will be next.
Elena Rykovtseva: Are the appeals of Lukin and Fedotova, Olga?
Olga Romanova: You know, Mikhail Fedotov, I doubt that something is possible, and Vladimir Lukin, to my great regret, who had done so much recently, maybe it was not very bright, maybe it was too careful, his ministerial position would not hurt. In February, he finishes the term of office - this is the second term, this is the last.
Elena Rykovtseva: That is, they will not listen to him, “lame duck”.
Olga Romanova: I'm afraid that everything is. On the other hand, see how many different authorities we have in this period. Here are Astakhov, here are Titov, now a couple of posts on migrant rights are being discussed about the introduction of more positions and so on. We will soon have an authorized person on each issue. And who are all these people? These are all terrible people. One Astakhov is worth it. Please note that the appointment of such people in positions associated with human rights, their career does not raise - their career breaks. Who needs Astakhov, who is visible from everywhere and everyone.
Elena Rykovtseva: both career and reputation.
Olga Romanova: Astakhov was a famous lawyer. A good lawyer, a bad lawyer, as they say, scientists argue. And now he can see him, now everyone is discussing, now everyone knows where he studied, where he got married, with whom he dinner and how he behaves. Here, please, Astakhov and Taiwanchik in the photo, please jokes in Monaco, please, Astakhov, who actually kills children, our Russian children in that they do not let them into families who could and would like to deal with them.
Elena Rykovtseva: But this is the most important thing that they saw what he was doing.
Olga Romanova: We see Titova, who was still quietly sitting in a council at the Prosecutor General’s Office or Potanin in business, was a quiet sweet boy who loved Abrau Dürso champagne. And now he can see him everywhere, what a lawyer he is, forgive the Lord, it is clear what a fundamental supporter of rights and freedoms he is, forgive the Lord, again. Here are flowers. As Dmitry Peskov teaches us: why call him by name and share a real reputation with this Tsvetkov, a real rating.
Elena Rykovtseva: We are now looking at the phenomenon.
Olga Romanova: This is a phenomenon exactly in the same category, which includes Astakhov, Titov, and other strange authorized ones. And the fact that Valery Borschev is that Zoya Svetova is that people who did a lot for prison, and whose names are not in the PMC. After all, no one says who made the decision, all the same, these people will know and respect. And the fact that Anton Tsvetkov, now I am taking on everything that will sound further, and Radio Freedom here is to do with it - this is my opinion that I must express, that Anton Tsvetkov is a bright representative of corruption, a bright representative of a person who goes to prison precisely in order to withdraw money from prisoners and their families. I can go to court with this quote. So, there is no doubt about this, we see all this every day.
Elena Rykovtseva: This quote that you just pronounced, I heard from that side - from Tsvetkovskaya, exactly to the human rights activists, whom we consider honest, decent people. Zoya Svetova heard this reproach to her address. You say that you take responsibility, but the facts exist, some kind of statement, some evidence that he does this, that he takes money for his visit, for his help?
Olga Romanova: There are many facts about Tsvetkova and Astakhova, we collect them. What is called, they will climb - give a rebuff, they will not climb - we will still sympathize. We do not participate in the war with those who are not worthy of war. These people captured the PMC - this is disgusting. This will very soon feel the prisoners, convicts, arrested. The members of their families will very soon feel this.
Elena Rykovtseva: The whole question for the purposes for which they did it. One goal is to make money on this. This is really a jurisdrable thing, you need to start a criminal case.
Olga Romanova: Who will start a criminal case?
(This opinion sounded on the air of the program. Radio Liberty invites to the microphone the other side. - Approx. Ed.)
Elena Rykovtseva: Theoretically, for the fact that he goes to prison and theoretically takes some bribes, he, of course, must bear criminal liability.
Olga Romanova: You tell some Danish history.
Elena Rykovtseva: This is the theory of Russian legislation too. When a person takes a bribe, he is judged for this. There is an even more serious topic - this is blocking the contacts of society with a prison.
Olga Romanova: This cannot be blocked, you cannot rest against one opportunity. The PMC was, I hope, for a long time will remain a good opportunity for honest normal people to make sure that everything is good or more or less good in prison. Of course, the PMC needs to be maintained to the end. Decent people are less and less - this is no doubt. But you need to demand more, you need to demand normal. It is impossible to demand: gentlemen of the Gestapo, what do you give us for breakfast bran, for the lunch of bran and for the dinner of the bran? Can you please add a piece of refinade? Let's say: go over. We are in our country, we are citizens of a free country. In the end, there are deputies of the Moscow City Duma and there are several decent people from them, for example, a member of the KPRF Klychkov, a very decent person, a very good lawyer. In the end, Dmitry Gudkov remains in the Duma. Already two, already a lot. If we find 5-10 people, if we find decent retired, and they are in the history of the chiefs of prisons of past years, there are people who can walk. I know television and radio journalists who, for various reasons, can go to prison. Let's use this opportunity. First of all, foreigners who receive permission from the Central apparatus of the Federal Penitentiary Service, and go to prison to remove their stories. Of course, they get there, because, for example, for some time they were friends with Chubais, relatively speaking, and he helps them to get into legal grounds, just say that I know these people. Or, for example, with Kudrin, I fantasize now. There are decent people who are still listening to.
Elena Rykovtseva: Even according to those Russian laws that you do not recognize that they exist, they can do this, they can break into this prison.
Olga Romanova: Let's break through in other ways and methods. I am not entitled to tell this story with names, I really hope that it will soon be told by the heroes of this story. For example, one well -known girl, a responsible person, for a long time, was a public defender of one hopeless prisoner political. And at some point, when she was refused there, there, they began to close oxygen, they decided to get married. Я не уверена, что это история про любовь, хотя черт его знает, чем это все закончится, но это история про ответственность, про желание помочь, про то, что другого способа нет. Почему нас бьют эти паскуды? Потому что мы играем по своим правилам, которые не позволяют душе лениться, не позволяют делать какие-то вещи, которые позволяют себе чистоплюи. Они нас бьют, потому что мы с ними в шахматы, а они с нами в лапту бейсбольной битой.
Ольга Романова также ответила на звонки и комментарии зрителей и слушателей Радио Свобода. Смотрите полную версию здесь
.