Post -Maidan | Colta.ru

The journalist and TV-host online channel “Gromadske TV” Mustafa Nayyem is the sign figure of the Ukrainian revolution and one of the most informed people in the country. A Euromaidan began from Facebook post on Facebook on November 21, and he in an interview with The New Times a week before trying to forcefully suppress protests gave an accurate forecast for the development of the situation. Egor Putilov met him in Kyiv to find out what would happen in Ukraine in the near future.

- Before talking about the future, let's first clarify the latest events - why did everything sprinkle so quickly? Why did the security forces and the Party of Regions essentially surrendered Yanukovych - I mean that historical vote in the Verkhovna Rada, when some of the regionals voted for a return to the 2004 Constitution, thereby actually depriving the president of powers?

-Well, firstly, Yanukovych himself was scared. His fear finally defeated greed. For the past four years, he has constantly received information about the dissatisfaction of the West by his actions, growing dissatisfaction of the people, some other groups, but he simply ignored it and did what he considered necessary. By this he sent signals to the group that gathered around him and which began to behave in the same way. That is, Yanukovych and his environment simply went forward, not paying attention to all this. And when the victims went and it became clear that the Maidan also has a weapon and he was ready to apply it, then he was frightened.

As for his deputies - February 18, when it was a successful attack on the Maidan, it was the last day, when the surroundings of Yanukovych and the regionals seemed that the situation could still be kept. But the use of snipers showed that the president simply no more resources, that is, he resorted to firearms, because he no longer had loyal police in the amount that could restrain the Maidan without sacrifices. And this was a signal for members of the Party of Regions.

Then another point - throughout the crisis, Yanukovych made decisions alone, not conferring with his deputies and not even informing them. That is, the situation around which decisions are made and how, what is the plan of action and whether it is at all was completely opaque. And in these conditions, the regionals realized that they no longer have mutual obligations to Yanukovych.

- And where did the power team go - Klyuyev, Pshonka, Zakharchenko?

- And no one knows that. They disappeared - just like Yanukovych himself.

- Over the past few days, events have occurred that have completely changed the political landscape in Ukraine. Among them, the appointment of the presidential elections for May this year and the resurrection of Yulia Tymoshenko on the political officer. Who will fight for the presidency with whom?

-Well, firstly, it should be noted that the president’s post itself is no longer so significant with the return of the old constitution. Now the main fight will be for the place of the prime minister, because the president is becoming a rather nominal figure. And in the presidential election, candidates will be forced to go in one bunch, announcing in advance who they are going to the premieres. I see two teams between which the main struggle will unfold: this is Klitschko-Poroshenko with Klichko as the president and the bunch of Tymoshenko-Yatsenyuk with Yatsenyuk-Prime Minister.

- You did not have the impression that the sudden fall of Yanukovych was an unpleasant surprise for Europe and the West as a whole? They essentially lobbled his presidency before the end of this year by agreement signed with the opposition.

- No one outside Ukraine understood what was happening here. The fact that Yanukovych fell is a surprise for everyone, even for us. Four days ago, the EU was afraid that chaos would begin here, so they were ready to endure Yanukovych.

The main fight will be for the place of the prime minister, because the president becomes a rather nominal figure.

- Will he begin?

- I don't think so. It seems to me that we have already shown that there was still no chaos.

- A few days ago I drove from Kharkov to Kyiv by car, and there are several cordons of self -defense on the highway that check the cars. That is, it is clear that now these people are quite pleasant and adequate, but time is, there will also be some structures of power, and the logic of civil conflicts and periods of transit of power in the world shows that not everything can be smooth there.

- There is such a factor, it seems that the whole world is looking at us now, and this disciplines to a certain extent. Those people who stand on the Maidan themselves are very afraid of chaos. Yes, everyone talks about him as an opportunity, but that is why he may not be.

- Yulia Tymoshenko in her speech upon exit from prison called on the Maidan to continue to stand. Will he stand?

- The Maidan will stand at least before the election - that's for sure. And I think that Yulia Tymoshenko does not imagine that this Maidan can. Indeed, for the rest of the opposition politicians, the Maidan has become a factor in fear. If she came to the Maidan the day before the release, she would have found opposition leaders who came to tell about her victory (concluding an agreement with Yanukovych about early elections. - Ed. ), And instead they knelt down and forced to look at the corpses and pray. The Maidan is now a very skeptical attitude to politicians and their rhetoric, because words cannot outweigh the corpses of friends and all the emotions associated with this. The Maidan has become an independent political force.

The whole world is looking at us now, and this is disciplined.

It must be understood that the demands of the Maidan were always one step ahead of the political reality and essentially formed it. When the politicians agreed to cancel the laws on January 16, the Maidan demanded a return to the 2004 Constitution. When they returned to her, the Maidan already demanded the resignation of Yanukovych. Now it seems that the victory has occurred, but people are standing and do not go anywhere, because they see that something is happening. Now the anger, which was directed against Yanukovych, is already addressing the opposition. People are afraid of the appearance of the new Yanukovych.

- How does the Maidan manifest his desires in the political space?

- Very simple. Have you seen the People’s Veche on Sundays? When politicians come out and offer some decisions, and the Maidan makes it with approving hum or rejects sucking.

- That is, the Maidan has only the answer “yes” or “no”?

- Yes, it is. Politicians should offer the Maidan the solutions that will arrange it, and these decisions should be simple. Because complex solutions may seem suspicious. That is, if, say, Yatsenyuk will come with a package of anti -corruption laws and will arrive in a very expensive machine, then it will be suspicious and difficult.

- You are talking all the time "Maidan." Who is the Maidan? After all, there are politicians who somehow structure this mass-the same Paruby, Yarosh, etc.?

- The Maidan is everyone who comes there. In a sense, every Kievite or Ukrainian is part of the Maidan, because he can come there and express his opinion, say this is the most “yes” or “no”. And the so -called leaders perform only an auxiliary function here.

- Is it possible to say that in Ukraine a new type of political system is being formed in Ukraine - Zaporizhzhya Sich - with the Maidan, which is a source of power and the last instance?

- To some extent - yes.

There is a risk that Russia will put on Tymoshenko.

- How do you comment on the appointment of Parubiy by the Prosecutor General?

- Parubiy is a field commander. He is never a politician.

- Is there a risk of witch hunting?

- I don't think so. Knowing Parubia, I think that there will be no hunting for witches. Both Paruby, and the so -called radicals are quite adequate, balanced people. On the other hand, of course, lustration is necessary, but it should be political - through the elections, that is, so that people involved in the creation of the Yanukovych system do not remain unpunished, but leave power. Because if lustration is non -building, as they say about this now, then the question arises - what will be its criteria? Anyone who determines its criteria will essentially clean up the political field for themselves, because many opposition politicians will have to leave then. Political lustration through the elections will be able to bring many new, healthy forces that have arisen or became known in the last three months. They are carriers of a completely different political culture. I mean, say, the “civil sector”, automatic rein, demalliance, and the “right sector” ( organization prohibited in the Russian Federation ), too.

-And what to do with the southeast, with local barons and their administrative-economic clans? Are there any negotiations with them?

-Well, there are such clans throughout Ukraine, not only in the southeast. No, there are no negotiations, and they are not needed. The eastern governors themselves began to clean the space in their territories in order to demonstrate their loyalty to the new authorities. The eastern deputies-regions voted with everyone in the Rada for the return of the old constitution. Well, take the same Kernes in Kharkov. He already calls on this anti -Maidan to disperse. Well, if the Kharkiv people want to have such a mayor, then okay - who will forbid it to them? Let it work before the election. I do not see any possibility of the collapse of Ukraine. Maidan won, all regional authorities have already designated their loyalty.

- Through whom Russia will now try to influence the political process in Ukraine?

- Well, you better know this (laughs) . It seems to me that there is a risk that they will put on Tymoshenko.