Sensible innocence

Photo by Yuri Timofeev/Grani.ru

Mikhail Kosenko came to the rally, calmly stood surrounded by human rights activists, watched a fight, hit the video, was arrested. He was recognized as insane and tried for participation in the "mass riots" and the use of dangerous violence to the riot police - which no one has ever seen, simply because this was not. Kosenko spent almost two years in a pre -trial detention center and two and a half months in a mental hospital. This summer, the court transferred him to outpatient treatment. Correspondents of the "faces" Daria Kostromina and Yuri Timofeev talked with Mikhail ten days after his release.

The taste of freedom

“You are already free for ten days.” What are the sensations? What have you been doing all this time?

• He talked with friends, relatives. I went to the action of Estemirova’s memory, went to the Amnesty office.

- Have you already begun to go to some promotions? Not afraid to get to the hospital again?

• Well, you can’t sit like a wise pancreas at home!

- At Tolokonnikova, in the conclusion about her mental state, it was written that an active civic position indicates a person’s disorder ...

• The doctor said to me: "My goal is that you stop going to rallies."

- What kind of doctor is this?

• This is already here in the dispensary.

- And how is she going to achieve this goal?

• I don’t know, maybe she believes that this is a manifestation of the disease if I go to rallies. Perhaps, in her opinion, if a person was sitting on such articles, this can lead to relapse or show that I am sick. I told her that there is constitutional rights, that if I am sick, this does not mean that I cannot go to rallies.

- Is there an opportunity to achieve in the future to be recognized as sane?

• I will not do this.

Butyrsky failure

- When the attacker commits a crime, he takes into account that he will be caught and put. And you just went to the rally and spent two years in prison. How to deal with this?

• There are a lot of people in prison who are sitting for nothing. I think this is to some extent even the norm for the prison. For many, drugs are thrown, for example. Many are taken by mistake.

- Do they take the mistakes taken by mistake?

• We have very few acquittals. Therefore, if you were arrested, it is almost one hundred percent that you will be in prison.

“What did you miss most when you were in custody?”

• Often there was not enough normal human food - they feed very poorly in prison.

- Did you save the gears?

• Yes, but they could not fully provide me. The programs, of course, were helped, but there is a very small set that can be transmitted. Bread of very poor quality, because it is not bought, but is done in a pre -trial detention center. The food is also bad.

- I wonder why the bread is done in jail?

• To make it cheaper. Save.

- And in the hospital they feed better?

• Better, but not to compare with free food.

- A person before he gets into prison, has some idea of ​​her. She is worse than you seemed to you before, or can I survive? What do you advise other people? Maybe it’s better not to get into it? Do not go to rallies at all?

• The prison to a man who did not visit her seems to be a terrible place, but when he gets there, he ceases to be afraid, because he sees that the same people in prison as in the wild. In prison, the prisoners themselves are suppressed insults and assault. The prison is largely a safe place compared to the will. Naturally, a person in prison is experiencing severe discomfort, but in the end he gets used to it.

- How did you cope with the information vacuum?

• In general, prisoners watch TV. This is not to say that they are divorced from the world. But now television news has become absolutely loyal to power.

- They say there are such cameras where people sleep in turn due to crowding. Have you had such cases?

• No, I haven't seen this. It happened, they put a cot when there was no place.

- Have you encountered thieves' traditions? Watching on the camera, for example.

• Watching the camera is.

- Is this a self -organization that helps people, live, or a look - is it the main criminal who robs other prisoners?

• No, this was not the case for them to live. These are ordinary prisoners.

- Can't the administration deal with them?

• And the administration does not seek to cope with them. She herself asks who is watching to solve her issues.

- Many dissidents said that the prison gave them a positive experience. Shalamov, on the contrary, wrote that there is no and cannot be in the camp. Is there any positive experience?

• For most prisoners, the positive experience is that they cease to be afraid to get to jail. But this negatively also affects them. Still, it is better that people do not get used to, do not get involved.

- The prison becomes like a home home and no longer scares?

• Yes. Especially when you return from the trial - it feels like you are going home. Many say so: let's go home.

- In Russia, many were outraged that Breivik was sitting in comfortable conditions. Do you think in prison should be bad for a person to correct?

• I remember, somewhere in the legislation it is said that in prison a person should not experience physical suffering. A person should not suffer due to poor food, because of crowding, heat, cockroaches, from a lack of medical care. As for Breivik, he specially created such conditions so as not to make him a martyr who suffers for an idea.

Now let's talk about the case

- You had part 2 of article 318, while all swamps have part 1 [part 1 - the use of non -hazardous violence to a representative of the authorities, part 2 - the use of dangerous violence. - Ed.]. You have any assumptions, why so?

• Well, they probably thought that it was I who caused bodily harm to riot police, who received a concussion.

“Do you think they were convinced that you are guilty?”

• I think they did not really want to understand. They received an instruction: to find and attract. I think Putin gave such instructions, and they are executing. Accordingly, this dominated in their actions.

- Sometimes the defendants of the "swamp business" are called hostages. People are chosen by accident who is easier to identify. There is a feeling that they were simply told: plant 20-30 to know ...

• The investigator told me that there are materials for 70 people. They approximately determined the number of people who can be attracted, and simply could not find the rest. And they found random, who did nothing or the actions of which were insignificant. The investigator told me that the riot police had broken skulls, serious damage, but I did not hear about such cases.

- And when there was a court, did you have hopes for an excuse?

• Well, there was some hope, but to say that I was seriously hoping to be released ...

- You did not feel that the judge realizes that you are innocent?

• I think she was sure that I was guilty.

- Even after she saw the photos in which you are far from Kazmin?

• I think she did not really delve into all this. In judges, thinking is directed so that if in court, it means guilty. They think: if the investigation provided material ... Judges think that investigators must decide everything, and investigators probably think when they work carelessly: let the judges understand. So mentally exceeds each other responsibility, and as a result, many are sitting for anything. And the judges are very loaded - they simply do not have time to seriously understand. Our judge read the case while lawyers said.

- Have you talked with other swamps?

• Yes, in Butyrka and in Avtozak we spoke to each other.

- What are your impressions of these people?

• Beautiful, pure people. There is no bitterness in them, despondency ...

- You will correspond with them, go to the courts, continue to communicate, help?

• Yes, I will.

- Many say that they themselves are to blame: "Who asked them to come there."

• What does it mean "to blame"? What are they to blame? What are they sitting? It must be understood that swamps are people who have suffered for a common cause. They sit not for their own, but for the general. Including for those people who do not share their beliefs.

Psychiatric attack

- Which is better: get to a psychiatric hospital or sit in prison? It is clear that the killer or rapist, who is shining a huge term, is trying to be shandked under a madman. And if the term is short?

• There are people who regret that they got to the hospital, and not in prison. The life of a person who is there is limited. You can smoke only 10 cigarettes per day. In prison you can brew tea, but in the hospital it is impossible, and the tea there is given very liquid. In prison you can sleep when you want, cook your food. This is impossible in the hospital. But the hardest is haloperidol. It can be given arbitrarily - prickly for some offenses in the form of punishment.

- Have you pricked you?

• No. I only have one doctor in the Koshkin House (Psychiatric Hospital for Butyrka. - Ed.) He threatened Haloperidol. I would also like to add that people in the hospital are overturned. Apparently, there is an attitude to fight crime in this way - to keep in the hospital extra years. In appearance there are healthy people, many could already be freed, but they are not discharged from there, and many do not know when they come out. When a person sits in a camp, he knows when he will be released, and in the hospital a person does not know when he will be released. There are people who have been there for decades.

- What role did the resonance around your business play?

• I think that if it were not for the attention of the press, not resonance, including abroad, I would not be freed so quickly, because they would not come out of there so quickly. If not for the resonance, I would spend 2-3 years there. And many are sitting and much longer. There are those that could get rid of a fine or a conditional term, and as a result of years they are held in the hospital. The hardest thing for those who are in the penalty department. If a person violates the regime, he is sent to this department. They stab there.

Political prison

- When did you start interested, politics?

• Probably in perestroika - then interest in politics appeared in a huge number of people.

- And when did you start to go to rallies?

• In the early 90s.

- Why did you decide to go to a rally on May 6?

• If you do not sharply accept the situation in the country, I think it is worth going to rallies. Since in this way you will express your rejection, your rejection of the evil that happens in the country, express yourself, show that you do not care what is happening in the country.

- What, from your point of view, the main problems in the country?

• Many problems. A huge amount. The fact that people are not protected, including from the state. The fact that the girls are taken to sexual slavery abroad. The fact that children are taken from families is that they take away their housing from people. The fact that natural resources are plundered. The fact that great corruption is in the country. You can list for a long time ... a person is not protected. We have a huge number of murders. Huge alcoholization, drug addiction. And the state is most interested in continuing the existing regime. Of course, it would want to solve problems, but does not know how, because many people are in power incompetent, and if they are replaced, the regime will change entirely. Therefore, they cling to their places and want to preserve the situation in the country, but they also preserve the evil that occurs.

- You said that the protest movement is crushed. There are thoughts, how can this be overcome, change the position for the better?

• I think one of the ways to change something is to put pressure on power.

- And how to crush?

• To participate in rallies, to express, including on the Internet, to form an independent perception of reality. I think, crushing power, you can ensure that she changed something for the better.

- You said that there is no freedom in the country. On what signs would it be clear that it appeared? What should change so that freedom is?

• To have honest elections.

- Do you think honest elections will change the situation?

• This will lead to more political competition. The power in more honest elections would work more efficiently, even if the same people remained in it.