Get into the "Friends of the Junta": Ildar Dadin's method

How it all started

Ildar Dadin is one of the most stubborn Moscow oppositionists. OVD-Info has to constantly write about where and how it was detained. So we decided to ask Dadin why he does all this. The interview was taken on October 31, 2014, but, for a number of reasons, is published only now. Today, Ildar Dadin is not the most pleasant day: he ends 15 days of arrest for a folk gathering on Manezhnaya Square on January 15, but today he will be judged by the action on Myasnitskaya Street on December 5. Several activists then blocked the street.

According to the article of Part 6.1 of Art. 20.2 Code of Administrative Offenses - “Participation in unauthorized meetings, rally, demonstrations, processing or pickets that have caused interference with the functioning of life support objects, transport or social infrastructure, communications, the movement of pedestrians and (or) vehicles or the access of citizens to residential premises or social infrastructure objects” - he can again receive 15 days.

New: The court session was held, and the administrative case of Dadin was retrained in criminal. He became the third person against whom the case was initiated under Art. 212.1 of the Criminal Code - "repeated violation of the established procedure for the organization or holding a meeting, rally, demonstration, procession or picket."

Tell me from the very beginning: how did you come into protest, what happened before, where did you work? What was the first impulse?

-I worked immediately after the army in security, from 2003 and until 2010. The first protest rally in which I took part took place on Bolotnaya Square on December 10, 2011. On December 4, I saw the results of the elections, and I was very outraged by what was shown on TV: supposedly United Russia unconditionally won, and I interviewed a very large number of people - relatives of the house, colleagues at work - and no one voted for United Russia. I understood that most likely we were being deceived. I did not know then that some protest rallies were taking place-my Internet was not connected, and on TV they didn’t really say anything about it. I just had such a desire-it doesn’t matter whether someone went out or didn’t go out, I wanted to go out myself and almost approach the Kremlin wall with a pitchfork and say: “Why did you get that you can decide something for me?” On December 9, a friend informed me that a rally should take place. I was very happy that, it turns out, someone else does not agree that you can deceive people so. And he came with friends.

In 2011, you did not use the Internet?

- He used it, basically, “VKontakte”, and was not interested in any protest theme, did not know that there were such sites.

You said that you worked as a guard. In the current opposition, you rarely meet people from such areas. On the other hand, the opposition are faced with the guards at local events related to the protection of forests, garages, historical buildings. And the impression of this category of people, let's say, is rather sad. Could you tell us in more detail how you managed to get into the opposition from there?

-I had never thought about it before, but now I understand that I constantly felt that my colleagues and I, basically, look at life differently. I didn't really like their views. Probably, I really differed from them.

There is such a common judgment that those who could not go to the police fall into the guards.

- Don't know. I wanted to get a higher education and went to guard to have some kind of earnings, so that I have minimal employment at work and maximum opportunities to prepare.

That is, you did not consider the police?

- No. I began to think about work in the police just when I began to participate in the protest movement, because I saw that I would like to protect people and their rights. And in general, if we manage to achieve the replacement of power and build civil society, if we work democratic principles, I myself will probably go to the police to work or in riot police, because, it seems to me, it should be honorable - it should protect citizens, it should be an honor for a person. But, unfortunately, people at the moment are clearly not going to the police because of this, but only because of earnings.

It turns out that the first event in which you participated was agreed. And when did you meet the activists actually - there or later? And how began to participate in inconsistent and non -mass shares?

- At the first agreed shares, I did not know at all that there were, it turns out, disagreed. After the first rally in Bolotnaya, I saw that there was an invitation to continue on Sakharov Avenue. I registered on Facebook, on the page “We were on Bolotnaya Square. We will come again! ”And I saw that different people write there that agreed rallies are wrong, that you need to act differently. But I proceeded from the fact that the more people, the better. I tried to go to, much more people came, and more people came, of course, to agreed events. People who offered a different path and by ten went somewhere to another event, I considered freaks who were not quite smart.

Why did I also become interested in time and began to participate with them in stocks? Because he began to see that the agreed rallies do not lead to anything. No resolutions adopted at the agreed rallies are carried out, and just come, stand up and disperse under the control of the master’s free person is not very interesting. Especially when the event is trying many times to coordinate and humiliate people by the fact that on the very last day they only agree and do not give time to prepare, call people - no one knows what place they agree. This, I remember, used to be very annoyed, because I want to invite more people, and you do not know where, because the power to the last is pulling with the place of coordination, that is, with the venue of the rally.

Initially, I saw that the authorities are deceiving that it treats people, as an empty place. I went to three or four agreed rallies, and they did not lead to anything. I wanted to express my protest - why there are no changes, why are they not listening to people? And then I became interested in such people who express their protest differently: if they have the right to go anywhere under article 31 of the Constitution and declare, they do it without asking anyone else's permission.

When did this understanding came that big stocks do not give anything? What was the first inconsistent action with your participation?

- Now I don’t remember for sure - perhaps “go to x ** with your registration!” on Red Square. I went there because I knew that there were my good friends there. I did not know that a swearing word would be used there in the slogans, I would probably not have joined if I knew about it initially, because I still try to avoid the mat.

I met a man who invited me to this action inconsistent, after some detention. Probably, it was after the presidential election, March 5 - the famous Fountain Udaltsov. It was very scary at first when they brought to a car gut. I understood that I was absolutely not guilty that I was simply seized and dragged there, but still it was, maybe the feeling left from the scoop that was taken from the scoop, then you are guilty. I thought that they would lead to criminals, criminals. And then to the same bus began to bring funny people, very adequate, sociable, which shows that these are absolutely normal people. And I was immediately released by this fear.

The people whom you first considered Fricigs in the end turned out to be close to you?

- Yes, my value system has changed. On the contrary, I began to consider the exits to the agreed actions and more respected those people who do not ask for unnecessary allowations, do not ask anything, but simply express their opinion peacefully and without weapons.

Why is the monument to Zhukov - a place where inconsistent promotions most often take place?

- It’s just that, probably, the relics, echoes of the previous form of struggle. I think that perhaps in the near future it will not be fundamentally where exactly to gather.

"Gay activist who painted the star"

You participated in a variety of actions - support for LGBT, shares against the demolition of historical buildings. When you began to go to inconsistent promotions, you were interested in any one topic, or was it the main thing to just support the protest?

- The topic that was important to me from the very beginning remained the main one: the power that falsified the elections is illegitimate. I am not satisfied with the fact that someone I did not vote for, for whom many people did not vote now occupies bureaucratic seats, I believe that these people should be in prison for violating our right to elect power. Many times I was an observer in the 2012 and 2013 elections - simply to once again make sure that the power is illegitimate, and in order to try to reach new people and try to attract them. As I noticed, in any issue - LGBT, observation activity, forest protection, the fight against the illegal destruction of historical buildings - everything rests on the same problems. You from different sides approach the problem that you are trying to initially solve - illegitimate power, illegitimate regime, everywhere you see a consequence of the same authoritarian regime, everything rests on one deaf wall, and when you try to fight in other ways, you still come to the same. Everything eventually rests on the fact that the law does not work. And if people try to solve a specific problem, then it only delayed, but does not solve, because gangster power does not allow the problem. The building will still be demolished in the end, the forest will eventually be cut down anyway, all the complaints of the election will still end up on the brakes. And oncoming affairs are being brought to activists so that they do not really grow up. All this is a consequence of one big problem - an illegitimate regime. And I think, until it is dismantled, these problems will not be solved.

You say "the forest will be cut down anyway." What then is the meaning of protest?

- I so assumed that I already understood the main essence of the problem, and hoped, participating in these things that I would help other people get to understand the fact that until they began to deal with the main problem - the dismantling of the system - the problem that they are engaged in particular will not be solved. But I am trying to contact more now, to unite with people who understand that without dismantling the system of illegitimate authoritarian regime, there is nothing to solve anything.

It seems to you, of the groups that you have listed, people are poured into a common protest?

- I know that there are people who participate in the activities of a narrow topics regarding their problem, and what I talked about. There are few of them, in principle, people who do what I do, a little, but there are such people.

Why were you attributed to coloring the star at a high -rise?

- This is an interesting topic. I remember that on that day I woke up in the morning, went to some Ukrainian site, where the news reported that all the Russian news agencies-it was somewhere in the morning-scored the news about the reproach of the star. At that moment I did not know about her at all. Then on Facebook I saw the news that the first messages appeared, that someone had painted the star there, I posted it because I agreed with this action. And then they called me, or on Facebook they sent a message that, it turns out, I painted it! I learned that at night, it turns out, I do not sleep, but, like a lunatic, I wander along high -rms and paint the star. In principle, it would be great if I could also deal with such things, I would feel for honor. But I always knew that I was afraid of heights, recently checked it. So, unfortunately, so far it was not me.

Where did the gay activist label come from?

-This began when the LGBT shares of the Duma took place, two or three times they had kisses there, when they adopted the law against propaganda (the law on the ban on distribution among minor information promoting non-traditional sexual relations-ATS-Info). It was in the summer, and then I first visited their promotions. I saw on the video how healthy foreheads fly on some girls, boys. Since childhood, I thought it was wrong, stronger, in my opinion, should protect the weaker. And when I first came, I wanted, if that, to stand in front of these furious empty -headed fans who fly into those who cannot give back. Then I was detained for the first time for their shares and then these, as I call them, the excessed Orthodox are, because I can’t name the believers in any way, they began to try to hang this label. Then they called me that after the action on October 6 on Arbat, when I left Rayda Lynn, when they tried to issue a law that you can take away children from the LGBT PAR. It was already on television - this is when absolutely deceitfully I was attributed to the coloring of the star. I just laugh - they think, apparently, that it will touch me. On the contrary, now I greet my friends “Hello, I am a gay activist,” because this does not bother me at all. As a result of protest activities, I got acquainted with a wonderful person-with Alexei Davydov (LGBT activist, died in September 2013-ATS-Info). And I can always say to any person in the eyes of what I think for honor to get acquainted with Alexei Davydov. In a special-reception, people in the eye said that I would never say that this person is some kind of “g” or a secondary one. Even before the threat of death, because otherwise I myself will be a complete insignificance. True, then I realized that in the special -reception it is not very desirable to speak such topics.

Relations with law enforcement officers

You constantly appeal to the law, you say that the Constitution is legitimate, and Putin is non -lighting. And by what principle do you distribute what is legitimate and what is not, of any legislative norms, from authorities, law enforcement agencies?

- Our power was delegated to officials, we were given their powers for a while to call for a while so that they effectively help us live better, for this purpose we only hire them. But so far the officials have not been elected in honest, legal elections, transparent, in compliance with electoral law, until then this power is illegitimate. The article of the Constitution has great legal force than any law lower in level. In accordance with this, laws contrary to the 31st article of the Constitution are illegitimate. The amendments that began to limit our rights even more and contradict the 31st article have already been adopted by an illegitimate Duma-I think this is the primary indicator: any laws issued by this Duma are illegitimate.

When did you become interested in laws proper, read them, explain your rights to the police? When you tell us about some kind of promotions, you always very much rely on their observance up to all the nuances.

- Even during participation in the agreed rallies, I, of course, was afraid of detentions, the police. I saw the memos of human rights organizations at these events about what to do if you were detained, what rights you have, what you have the right to demand. I remember when I was detained for the first time, I found that the police really violate a lot and our rights are not respected. There was one wonderful person in the Sokolniki police department, Serge Konstantinov (activist of the Free Radicals movement-ATS-info). I noticed that, unlike all the other 15-20 detainees, he behaved very confidently, calmly, and I felt that he was not afraid. I noted his calmness and knowledge of the law. What was very struck by was that he not only thought about himself, and when someone's rights were violated, he immediately stood out. The police tried to intimidate him, but he was never afraid and still praised that they violated the law. This behavior seemed right to me. And I realized that it is interesting to study my rights so as not to let the police break them.

How do the police react when you explain something to them?

- Basically, they are trying to show with all kinds that they do not care. In the car, if they know that there are no witnesses, they generally behave rudely, they begin to “poke”, they immediately have to put them in their place, to be treated respectfully in accordance with the Police Law. To those who believe that the law should work, they treat as crazy. You just have to act as it is convenient for them, how they are used to. When there are no witnesses, they laugh openly and rude. With witnesses, they simply create the appearance that they do not mind, but still do not seek to observe what is supposed to.

When you are detained, are the PPSniks or operatives of the EE center usually do this?

- They delay - however, they “delay” - an inappropriate word: this is not a detention, these are illegal captures of people. Usually this is done by the second operational regiment, the first operational regiment or riot police. We usually, judging by the arena, are delayed by those who are there-riot police or, possibly, PPSNIKS, and then a car arrives from the Kitay-Gorod police department, apparently already on the call of riot police, and we are handed over to the department to the department.

The EE center is not interested in your activity?

-The Center “E” is constantly interested in, it is for almost any action the first one is faster than any police. They begin to shoot with the camera, and then the police only fit.

Did they talk directly to you?

- No, almost never. I remember that after my first detentions they sometimes tried to shoot and now, maybe they were trying, but I’m always saying that they would not be removed that I am not some kind of criminal, they have the right to remove me only with my consent, but I did not give my consent.

I’m trying to get into the “Friends of the Junta” or somewhere else, on the list of worthy people, but so far I, apparently, have not earned communication with Eshniks. The maximum-at my house, in the city of Zheleznodorozhny, only to the district police officer was invited several times about the detentions, for example, when they went to Navalny on July 18 (2013-ATS-Info). I was also invited to write an explanatory one about the arrival from Ukraine.

Who invited? Loss? What was they asked about?

- He invited the allegedly district police officer, but in the end it turned out that this was a criminal investigation department. The head of this department talked with me, he tried to take some explanatory one from me according to the model that he needed. This did not suit me, because there was something selective, and the picture was different. I did not hide anything, all the questions that were interested in was ready to state, but at the same time I wanted to tell everything as it really was - mainly about illegal violations of my rights, about how they illegally detain people, how they violate the police law. When I tried to state him in his own way, he did not really like it, he wanted just in his template, what interests him. As a result, after almost an hour of conversations on near political topics, we found out that it was easier for us not to write anything, and we said goodbye to him. He wished me good luck, shook his hand.

They tried to find out something or warn about what would happen?

“I assumed that most likely, in the first place, the task is to create a feeling of fear-they say, we took you to a pencil so that you would not engage in any human rights or any other activity. I was usually called on the phone, at first I generally said that without a summons I am not interested in communicating with them, but the person who called me began to say: “We are forced, here it was an order from above, we just need to fill in pieces of paper.” I don’t know whether it was a wiring or not, but still, when they turn to me humanly, I try to act on the principle of “both people and I am to people”, so then I still came.

Do not come home, do not communicate with neighbors?

- When I came from Ukraine and they met me at the Kiev station, my parents said they came to my house and asked me to come in. This is the only case when they came home.

Are there any relations with the ATS employees? All the time, the same people make you up?

- Yes. When you try to talk with them, to explain that they participate in the factory, accuse the absolutely innocent person of the offense, they do not answer this and simply say: “You have received an application,” although there is no statement usually, this is a direct lie. They can also say that you insulted, although you just stood, for example, with the poster of “shame Putin” - this is neither a curse nor an insult. Or a protocol on illegal participation in an inconsistent mass event in the amount of about two people is drawn up on you. Despite the fact that in 95 percent of cases, probably, there is evidence on the video that a person definitely stood in a picket that there was nobody around.

And who is the second, it is unknown?

About two people, that is, they learned to count to two, but this is still approximately. Who is the second is unknown - the “judge” in quotation marks will decide who was the second. You try to explain to them - now, I can show you on the phone that I was there, look, last time yours were delayed, wrote the same reports, you have the same thing, you write the same lies, you yourself understand that this is a lie and that you are participating in general illegal falsification, why are you not even trying to figure it out? Those who write pieces of paper are usually the same: “OMONS brought you to us, they wrote such and such protocols, we can’t do anything already, formally we are obliged to draw up material on you, further to continue the protocols-it’s not our guilt, correctly or wrong, we have a protocol, we must already have any business, we must deal with this, we must transfer it to the court”.

What do they think of you?

What they think of me, I don't know. They say - I don’t know, honestly or in order to quickly compose the pieces of paper: “We understand that it is riot police, as usual, they wrote their nonsense on you, let's write everything quickly, in general, we just have reluctance to keep you reluctance.” Recently, they are trying to let go faster. At the same time, they can bring their witnesses, such as disinterested persons - people in the form of guards, it is clear that they were pulled out of the nearest shopping center, and some, completely dishonest, may at the same time as a guard, not offering me to get acquainted with the case materials, say: “He refuses to get acquainted with the materials - sign that he refuses.” They fit and try to sign something, without even looking at what is written there. I am trying to say to these guards: “You are participating in the factory now, I demand that I be acquainted with these materials, I will call you to court as witnesses.” And still, these manual, supposedly disinterested witnesses sign everything, despite all my assurances.

After the amendments were accepted that tighten the punishment for violations at rallies, did you have an idea that you need to change tactics, did you discuss this with someone?

- My friends were discussing this, the situation is actually quite serious, and even it annoys me. But personally, I can say to myself: I saw somewhere good words that a person is born free, and the state has the right only to describe my freedoms and protect them, it does not have the right to limit them, any restrictions on the initially free person are illegal. On the one hand, I understand this, on the other hand, I know that anyway, if this gangster state wants, it, despite the fact that I have not violated anything and I am a free person, can plant me. On the one hand, you feel free and therefore try to constantly be on the verge-still not to allow you to make a slave and act like a free person from you during your life, but still, of course, you have to act with an eye on this law.

What does it mean "with an eye on"?

- Maybe not as free as before. I only know that despite this, I still, perhaps, is not as open as before, but I continue to act, and I already had these detentions after the adoption of this law, probably, five or six, no less. I think even more, I especially do not consider them. Yes, I act a little more careful, but I do not stop acting.

A little careful - how if five or six were?

- I am no longer eager to block Tverskaya or run to Red Square, I still try not to get to article 19.3. That is, I protest, but I understand that the bandits are considered only with force, and the power of non -violent protest in quantity, but for now, it is not enough for us, it is just stupid to give these forces these forces to destroy. If there are many of us, I will act, perhaps a little differently, also within the framework of the law, but more openly. In the meantime, we have little to limit ourselves, unfortunately.

... and with other guards

You said that the police want to contact you less and quickly arrange everything. And how often do you come across promotions with people who come up with legends who track your activities about you, although they are not law enforcement officers?

-There are those who are watching the LGBT action-Enteo and, as we call them, Orthodox. But, as I noticed, something new has recently appeared-Nodovtsy (members of the national liberation movement led by State Duma deputy Yevgeny Fedorov-OTD-info), they are also obsessed with this topic, also like to appeal to the fact that they are trying to protect religion, but, in my opinion, they have nothing in common with the murderers, so they support the killers, liars and subchanges.

They just write about you some kind of nonsense on the Internet or come up to you when you are in the picket, and begin to say that you are a national traitor?

-They write something on the Internet, but at the moment I am not very interested in, I noticed what they are doing on pickets. On the pickets, these comrades begin to simply hypocrite, knowing that they are paid by the Kremlin, work on the Chekist regime with provocateurs, that they are covered. They justify their name “Tithers” - this is the Ukrainian term for provocateurs working in the interests of the security forces: when the security forces have no legal norms to detain you, titles are used for this. Here they are the titles who are covered by the security forces who are only under our security forces, with the police, they make their provocations, and for some reason the police delay not those who violate, but those on whom the attack is performed, so everyone suggests that these are the paid people of the Kremlin. Maybe there are some ideological ones there, although I am sure that most of them still pay.

And what is their street provocative activity?

- In the attacks expressed in the fact that they can tear out the poster, push a person, scream loudly insults in the presence of a policeman, and the policeman will not detain this comrade, and if you try to answer at least once, unable to withstand these insults, you will be detained. That is, under the guise of police officers violate, insult a person, and attacks. In general, in every possible way they are provoked with the help of insults and any attacks to some reaction in order to supposedly give a formal occasion to the security forces to detain a person conducting a legal picket.

How often do they appear at such events?

- Recently, quite often appeared, so that the presence of the nodes has become almost a constant factor already. Previously, they were not there, and in general, there were practically no such thing on our pickets-there were practically such permanent provocateurs that I noticed on LGBT events. Our tactics for the use of permanent provocateurs on ordinary public pickets appeared after the Maidan and after the situation with the Crimea.

A special approach

It turns out that in some plan, propaganda identified you. On the other hand, we often have the feeling that not only propaganda distinguishes you among the protesters, but also the police. Last time, we talked with Dima Monakhov , such a story is also observed with him. Why is this happening? Why do you treat you so hard compared to how on average they treat others during detention?

- The fact that the police specifically changed my attitude to me and raised interest, I began to notice just before my first departure to the Maidan. On December 6, 2013, we had another “strategy-6”, and shortly before it I began to notice it. Previously, this was not, at the Strategies-31, or other inconsistent promotions, there was usually such an unspoken rule that if you do not want you to be detained, you will not be detained. To be detained, you have to try very hard-either pull out the poster, or very actively scan, or something else. This unspoken rule was felt, it was observed. By the end of 2013, somewhere in October, I began to notice such an interesting change: they began to detain people-me and others-already without any reason. They delay people who do nothing at all. I come to the action, I communicate with a person, and now I feel that I have been dragging me somewhere, only five meters later, when two people have already grabbed and dragged me from behind, I begin to try to find out, and what is happening, because it happens silently, and only a five or more meters or more, they will mention: “Walk.” This, apparently, they consider it a sufficient legal basis. And since October, I began to notice it on each Strategy-6. So not only to me-to everyone, but in relation to me some particular interest began to manifest itself, they more often delay me than others, from that moment on.

More often delay and beat more often.

-The fact that they beat is, I think, is not connected with some special attitude towards me. This is just a response to my behavior, because I am more actively than other illegally captured, I demand compliance with my rights, they do not like it. Just the human factor, I think, turns on here. Well, he doesn’t like that I call him a werewolf in uniform, deservedly, because he grabbed me at first, then dragged me, then I demand that you follow the law-finally introduce myself, inform the reason for the detention, he begins to apply some kind of dumps for me so that I shut up. I usually in these cases began to be indignant even more, but they did not like this indignation, I don’t like that the person apparently does not scare, and then the pressure began.

But do not you think that this swing is right and the reason that you are more often delayed? That is, you just enroll them. Or do you think that some kind of instruction is given?

“I think this is one of the reasons.” An indication, maybe, because they just often see me at inconsistent events. Just like a fawning face.

What were the most stringent cases of violence against you from the police and the most severe fines, the punishment that you received?

- I don’t know about the fines, for what exactly I was fined for what, because these notifications that come to me by mail about court letters, I either tear, or just throw it into garbage, because I am not interested in fines from illegitimate power. In general, I would like to gain - I have such a sports interest - a million of such a duty: I am sure that in the legitimate power this should be written off, because all these fines are illegal. I only know about the total amount, someone told me half a year ago that I have seventy thousand there somewhere on some kind of bailiff site, I think that they are still working poorly, so far it is still far from mine. As for the rigidity of the detentions and any use of violence or the abundance of authority by police officers, I can immediately recall the Strategy-31 in December 2013, when I was beaten by person, and “Strategy-6”, in my opinion, in August, when riot police and Denis Baholdin inflicted several blows to me and Denis Baholdin. It happened that they strangled.

That is, this is usually a few beats?

-Usually several blows, and they themselves are afraid of this, they are trying to pull them their own, because they still understand that it is wrong to do it.

And you do not distinguish this story in the Hamovniki police department ? With wounding tape.

- Ah, with tape, yes, I just did not remember her immediately. This is a separate story, it shocked me very much then. During these three years, I had one of the most powerful emotional shocks, because this has never happened to me. Yes, it happens that in the police department, someone, hiding behind his epaulets, beats me, but this is such a human anger, he may have acted as a villain, but he hit, his emotions came off, and he does not receive it from this pleasure, he does not need it. He himself understands that he was stupid that he was a fool, but he stopped doing it, that is, there is no sadism or intentional, such a conscious desire to really humiliate a person. It was also ... the first shock of this kind when I saw conscious violence, perhaps even getting the pleasure of causing pain, humiliation, infliction of torture to a person - this is after the incident with a psychiatric hospital last year, which was very shocked internally. After this incident with a psychiatric hospital, I began to treat all the ATS as a kindergarten.

And the next was this case when I saw that these comrades were completely consciously arranging torture. What struck me was not that my legs tied with tape, although it humiliates mentally, but that they arranged a likeness of the drawback. Due to the fact that my hands fastened me into the handcuffs behind my back and attached them to the bars in a raised position, constantly turned my shoulders, that is, there was constantly tension. The pain was not wild, but sometimes I really wanted to just yell from a constant sense of pain and the realization that these people specifically arranged it for you so that you constantly felt pain. This is already a new level of sadism, I can’t accept this at all.

What percentage of your detentions in the China-Gorod police department ends with taking away the phone?

-And, by the way, this is one of the most relevant, which is very annoying and infuriates me very much-this is a distinctive feature of the China-Gorod police department. This, as I understand it, is the policy of the head of the department-without any reason, it is absolutely illegal to just pick up the phone, brazenly, from a bag, without an inventory, without witnesses. In the ATS, I always sit with a bag on a bench, and here three people from different sides are just suitable without talking, they begin to grab my bag from me. Я пытаюсь ее удержать, мне начинают заламывать руки. Просто молча, такой грабительский отъем.

Сотрудники ОВД или те, кто задерживал?

— Это именно уже сотрудники ОВД «Китай-город», у них это за правило. Вообще деятельность полиции является открытой и гласной, но они препятствуют съемке — у них любимая отмазка, что комната в ОВД — это режимный объект. Поэтому они позволяют себе этот бандитизм с отъемом телефонов без понятых.

То есть ты все время их снимаешь на телефон, когда входишь в ОВД, и поэтому они у тебя отбирают? Или это происходит в любом случае?

- Anyway. Бывало так, что я специально начинал снимать еще до входа в отдел, тогда у меня выхватывали телефон без каких-либо объяснений, законных оснований, требований. Но даже если ты не снимаешь, просто пришел с сумкой или еще с чем-то, у тебя в любом случае изымут телефон. В этом ОВД нельзя ни снимать, ни говорить по телефону.

Грозили ли тебе уголовным преследованием?

— Открытых угроз по поводу уголовного преследования, кажется, не было. Несколько раз приходилось сталкиваться с товарищами, которые относятся к уголовному розыску, но с ними беседа обычно быстро заканчивалась тем, что я им объяснял, что они ошиблись, я не преступник, мне с ними общаться неинтересно, просто давал им понять, что не совсем по адресу, мимо. Они это понимали, и общение на этом заканчивалось. Всего несколько раз такое было — например, после акции на Арбате , когда меня полицейский ударил в пах кулаком в ОВД. У них лучшая защита — это нападение, и они пытались принять превентивные меры, меня то ли в прокуратуру сводить, то ли еще что-то. То есть, если у меня будут против них какие-либо факты, они меня смогут контрмерами тоже как-то прижать. К моим знакомым приходил лично, по-моему, то ли Леша Улыбка, то ли Окопный. Два случая уже точно есть, когда их пытались нанять стукачами, вербовали, угрожали. Стандартный набор угроз — увольнение с работы и просто подлые всякие такие штучки.

Как сиделось

Тебя трижды приговаривали к административному аресту и помещали в спецприемник. What are the impressions?

— Еще одно из самых тяжелых потрясений, как первый опыт с психушкой и с вот этим скотчем и полу-дыбой, — это как раз-таки 1-й спецприемник на Симферопольском бульваре. У меня политические какие-либо мысли отошли на второй план, потому что там меня стали конкретно притеснять курящие люди и некоторые имеющие криминальное прошлое — они, я уверен, не являлись блатными, но пытались строить из себя что-то подобное и действовали по тюремным понятиям — держали камеру, типа смотрящих таких. Они руководят построением, их слушаются в основном те, кто находится внутри этой «хаты», как они называют камеру.

Эти люди проявляют себя даже в условиях, когда там собираются коллективы всего на 5—10 суток? Они решают, что если они с криминальным прошлым, то должны там следить за порядком?

— Во-первых, когда ты приходишь туда, они уже там есть. Когда кто-то из них отбыл срок, он передает свои полномочия смотрящего за камерой тому, кто был к нему ближе.

Так было все три раза, что ты попадал в спецприемник?

— Нет, слава Богу, это было на Симферопольском, а я там был только один раз. И там я столкнулся с тем, что эти смотрящие могут и подшучивать, и унижать человека, это считается нормальным. Они главные, к ним подтягиваются какие-то более-менее спортивные, так создается видимость физического преимущества, морального. Я думаю, что это, конечно, при поощрении администрации происходит — так же, как дедовщина поощряется офицерами: им так проще дисциплину поддерживать, с помощью страха проще контролировать людей, чем с помощью порядочности или устава, или еще чего-то. В Симферопольском чувствуется, что это очень распространено, то есть в различных камерах этот порядок заведен.

Но следующие два раза я отбывал срок в спецприемнике, который находится на улице Мневники. В первой камере, в которой я был, кажется, на семь человек, тоже был какой-то типа смотрящего — тоже сразу пытался подкалывать, унижать человека. А у меня там сразу возник конфликт с курящими. В Симферопольском меня мучило, что рядом все время курят, я просто просыпался ночью от того, что там был смог, мне было реально тяжело в тех условиях. И, увидев, что здесь опять начинаются эти проблемы, я понял, что мириться с этим не собираюсь. По закону есть такая норма, что отбывающих наказание курящих и не курящих нужно по возможности расселять. И начальство сразу объясняет: в законе сказано «по возможности», а у нас такой возможности нет. Я знаю, что если постараться, то они могут расселить, особенно если камеры не очень многочисленные. Да и просто – мне дали второй раз в Мневниках 10 суток ареста, а не 10 суток пыток табачным дымом. В этой камере я лег поближе к открытой форточке и требовал, чтобы она была все время открыта. Сначала мне сказали «да-да, конечно», а потом начали возмущаться — «мы тут из-за тебя все заболеем, нам холодно, вот ты тут пришел». На этой почве у нас произошел конфликт со старшим этой камеры, и, когда нас на вторые сутки моего там пребывания вывели на развод утренний, он начал возмущаться громко и говорить, что я пытаюсь устраивать конфликты, что они со мной не смогут. Я тоже сказал, что не согласен в этой камере находиться. Мне говорят: «Мы по возможности, возможности нет». Я говорю: «Меня это не интересует, я ваши пытки терпеть не намерен». Объяснял им, что у них будут проблемы. Спасибо Денису Бахолдину, который был задержан на акции после вынесения приговора «узникам Болотной» и отбывал свои 10 суток в том спецприемнике. Он проходил с обеда, услышал обсуждение этой ситуации и сказал: «О, а нас же в камере сейчас всего двое, один некурящий и один курящий, давайте его к нам в камеру». Вообще-то у них там есть негласное правило, я это заметил и на Симферопольском: всех политических рассовывать по разным камерам. Я слышал, когда меня туда приводили, они переговаривались: в эту камеру нельзя его, там политический. Но та женщина, которая пришла с утра на смену, все-таки нарушила это правило, меня на второй день перевели в эту камеру, и двое политических все-таки оказались в одной камере. В итоге я договорился с тем человеком, который там был курящий, что он курит в окно. До этого, кого бы я ни просил, все воспринимали мою просьбу в штыки.

В суды по административным делам ты не особо ходил? Или сходил, посмотрел, все понял и решил больше не ходить?

— Я бы даже, может, хотел ходить, но постоянно происходят новые акции. Поэтому нужно иметь хороший заработок и не заниматься больше ничем — только в этом случае ты можешь разорваться. Иначе просто физически не получается, и тогда тебе надо перестать заниматься активной уличной деятельностью и просто на два-три-четыре месяца уйти в дело, ходить в полицию, по судам, продвигать его. В общем, в основном, я бывал в суде только по принуждению.

Друзья старые и новые

Какая реакция у твоих аполитичных друзей, у родителей и на работе на твои акции?

— Помню, когда мы уходили 10 декабря с митинга, по-моему, Владимир Рыжков со сцены сказал, что мы придем еще. Я подхватил этот лозунг. Я думал, что расскажу людям о беспределе, который происходит, и они тоже скажут, что это неправильно, присоединятся и придут на митинг, и нас действительно будет больше 24 декабря на Сахарова. К сожалению, после декабря 2011 года меня очень сильно ошарашило то, что большинство людей из моих знакомых и родственников либо говорило «нас это не касается, нам это неинтересно», либо находили самые глупые оправдания, чтобы не пойти добиваться правды, справедливости, либо же начинали обвинять меня. Думаю, это диктовал им их страх.

Практически весь бывший круг общения просто отсеялся. Родственники на эту тему вообще стараются не общаться. Друзья практически все отсеялись — я их всех судил по себе, считал, что они такие же, как я, и будут действовать, как я, и не ожидал, что они все отвернутся. Жизнь показала, что они оказались другими.

Это друзья откуда? По школе? At work?

— Друзья по месту жительства, друзья старшего брата, например. По спортплощадке, по армейской службе. Я ездил на выборы в Омск, там своего армейского друга встретил, который из всей роты практически единственный человек, с которым, как мне казалось, мы нашли более или менее общие взгляды, который также не согласен был с дедовщиной, с несправедливостью. Я думал, что этот человек точно, если ему расскажешь, тоже начнет бороться. И меня поразило то, как он поступил. Я бы никогда не подумал про этого человека, что он скажет, будто это нормально, когда твои права нарушаются. Я думал, что этот человек никогда мимо не пройдет, и тем не менее он сказал мне что-то наподобие того, что я дурак, что не нужно никуда лезть, сидеть нужно тише воды, ниже травы, иначе будешь уничтожен — такой советский принцип. Один друг только у меня остался детства, который более или менее меня поддерживает, на работе чувствует себя чуть ли не изгоем, потому что все там «Крымнаш», а он понимает, что происходит на самом деле в Крыму, и чувствует себя тоже как бы в перевернутом мире. Но он никаких активных действий не предпринимает, максимум — пишет в фейсбуке. Все новые друзья у меня из протеста, и это замечательные люди. Меня поразило, что абсолютно незнакомые люди, с кем мы впервые пересеклись на протесте, заступались за меня. Мне было удивительно: с кем-то мы впервые увиделись на пикете за «узников Болотной» в 2012 году, абсолютно посторонние люди — кого-то задержали, я пошел писать заявления в ОВД, и эти люди, не зная меня, оставались, пока я оттуда не вышел, пока я не написал все заявления. Я помню, что меня тогда это очень сильно поразило. Когда все твои друзья от тебя отвернулись, а тут абсолютно незнакомые люди считали, что это ненормально, если какой-то беспредел происходит, что нужно быть до конца. Впоследствии я увидел, что в протестном движении очень много таких людей, настоящих людей, которые не считают, что нормально проходить мимо какой-то несправедливости, которая происходит практически на твоих глазах.

Меняется ли реакция людей, которые проходят мимо, когда ты стоишь в пикетах? If so, how? Кто эти люди, откуда они появляются?

— Реакция в разное время была разной. До ситуации с Крымом большинство людей, например, на плакат «Путин — позор России», «Путин — вор» смеялись, относились очень положительно, поднимали большой палец и говорили: «Молодец, красавчик!» — таких было 90—95 процентов. После ситуации с Крымом — да, ситуация очень сильно изменилась. Довольно плачевная ситуация.

Эта история со звездой, когда тебе уделили такое внимание, как ты говоришь, почетное...

— Мне, кстати, многие говорят: «Мы тебя видели по телевизору». Мне это сказала моя племянница, и в результате я с ней поговорил про Украину, и мне понравилось, что она сказала, что постарается, несмотря на то, что ей только десять лет, всегда поступать правильно. Я пытался ей внушить, что всегда нужно оставаться порядочным человеком, как бы это ни было тяжело, и она это восприняла. Мне показалось, что зерно попало на нужную почву, и этот разговор, думаю, имел для нее сильное значение. Вот, казалось бы, поганый лжематериал кремлевских СМИ позволил мне затронуть с ребенком эту тему, и очень хорошо с ним пообщаться, а без этого я, возможно, и не завел бы этот разговор.