Translated material
Bris Nemtsov about Boris Yeltsin
On the day when Boris Yeltsin died, in London in the Hall of Queen Elizabeth II, a stone's throw from the Westminster Palace, was the Russian Economic Forum. They reported the death of Yeltsin so - one of the present, who took the microphone to ask a question, said: "The news had just come from Moscow - Yeltsin died ... But I did not take my word for this." And - continued his painful question about why the Western press writes so negatively about Russia and its businessmen. In the evening, most of the forum participants went to listen to Mr. Shnurov and his Leningrad group. Less - twenty people - to remember Yeltsin. Boris Nemtsov - Evgenia Albats among them - Boris Nemtsov, Governor of the Nizhny Novgorod Region (1991-1997), then First Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation (1997-1998). For more than two hours we talked about the departed era of the president who had gone forever.
- About Yeltsin -
It had power ... August 19, 1991 I entered the White House. Yeltsin stands on the stairs in front of his office. It can be seen that he is some kind of discouraged: all around the tanks ... I ask: "Boris Nikolaevich, what to do?" He: “What are you standing here? Go a weapon get and fight for freedom, in the end. ” Me: "And where is the weapon?" “Go to the courtyard, there are already distributing machine guns there.”
About the war
- In Chechnya -
I go on the plane, and there were two ladders, and Korzhakov ran from the rear ramp where Alpha was sitting to the teeth, and Barsukov remained. There, in Chechnya, Yeltsin saw a soldier, saw Chechens ... Yeltsin, by the way, was the first leader after Alexander I, who visited Chechnya. And they began to scream, Chechens: give us the Volga, Gazelle, build a kindergarten for us, something else. And Yeltsin tells me: "Write down, all this must be done." And I already see that the records-half the Assembly will have to be given ... Then a meeting with the command, there, in Grozny, then we are already flying out of Mozdok. We sat on the plane, and, thank God, no one attempted to be president, alive and well, we are sitting, and he suddenly says: “Well, okay, we should note our successful trip.” I look, and there, in a salon, on a presidential plane, near each place there is a bottle of Yuri Dolgoruky vodka, 0.75 liters, by the way, and some kind of snack: ordinary Soviet, meat, fish. Yeltsin says: “In order not to torment anyone here, I offer two toasts: for Russia - the first, under the number one, and the second - for the president. In principle, you can not drink. And I will only announce the first toast or the second. ”
When we flew to Moscow, to Vnukovo, my president was doubled, everything floated, I thought badly and could no longer get up.
Out the window of the porthole, I saw Naina Josifovna and Tanya crying. I say: "Boris Nikolaevich, why do they cry?" He replies: "Have you said to your wife in the morning?" “I said that I am in Chechnya with you.” - “And I said that I went to work with the documents to the Kremlin. So they cry. " And he continues: "Yes, by the way, let's go to television and report on the results of the trip to the Russians." Me: "Normally ... but I can’t get up." Yeltsin: "It doesn't concern me at all." About how I “reported to the Russians”, how in the dressing room ORT, the girl Zina kept me in the sink under the ice water, as I later rode the car back to my lower, a separate story. At three hours I arrived, I went to bed dead, at six in the morning the call - and in my country house, of course, a special community, such a piercing call - it is impossible not to wake up. I wake up, I take the phone with hatred, the steel voice of the Kremlin telephone operator: “The President of the Russian Federation Boris Nikolaevich Yeltsin will speak with you.” I think: “What is it ...” I hear a familiar voice to pain: “I watched you yesterday, Boris Efimovich, good morning, you looked good.” I say: "Boris Nikolaevich, why did you send me there?" - “And you remember, Boris Efimovich,” he was with me on “you” and with everyone, by the way, was always on “you,” what did you say when I did not leave the plane in Shannon, or remind you? ” “Yes, I remember I told you.” “Tell me what you said then.” “I said then that it is possible to oversleep Russia.” “Yes, this is what you said, so I decided to check you - looked good.”
- About personal -
No, he rather wanted me to enter his position. If he were vindictive, he would have fired me from work. He did not touch me - neither for a million signatures, nor for “you can oversleep Russia”, nor for “collateral auctions”, “gang capitalism” - these were all my words, by the way, were. But he forgave me everything. Here Sysuev 1 says that he just loved me as a son.
And when did these of your “father - son” of the relationship with Yeltsin began? Many said: Yeltsin does not have a son, and he treated you as a son?
Firstly, I was with him in difficult times. In the 90s, when he was not elected the chairman of the Supreme Council, and I was an active supporter; In the 91st I was with him when he was on the tank. Even in the 93rd, when I was a governor, I supported him against the Nazis, Makashov. He came to Nizhny many times, he treated me very much. We talked about everything in the world. For example, he asked me: "You are a young man - where are you with girls?" I told him that I have a place, and he told me: "We must have many places, because one place will be lit." And then he said a brilliant thing: “Do you know why the movement of youth housing cooperatives was born?” - "Why?" “I had to rent a new house every six months.” Brilliant, huh? He never told me anything about his personal life, and they had a wonderful family, but he dropped this one phrase. He really had a very good relationship in the family.
- About freedom of speech -
Yeltsin invited me to Shui Chup (in March 1997. - The New Times), this is a presidential residence in the Novgorod region, and now it is. There was Shrovetide, and so in the evening after the bath we decided to watch the program "Time". He says: “Turn on, now there will be a“ time ”program. And from the first second he began to cover with vile words ... I was unpleasant to watch, but what is it to him? I thought: what will he do now? The state, by the way, canal, then Berezovsky managed. For ten minutes this whole muck poured, and unfair: that he is an alcoholic, that he does not rule the country-some nonsense, all nasty things Korzhakovskaya. Yeltsin says to me: "I can’t watch it - turn off the TV." Of course, I turned off. I was shocked - he didn’t even have to call in his thoughts, to say: what right do you have to behave like that, villains? “Turn off the TV” - and that’s it. By the way: when Putin came, I was with him a few months after the election. So, where Yeltsin had a thick feathers on the table on the table, which he gave to Putin with the words “take care of Russia” - I think, his best words - Putin did not have this Yeltsin handle - a television remote control was lying. And I realized: freedom of speech end.
About Zhirinovsky
- And the successor -
In the 94th, Yeltsin traveled with his family on the Volga on the ship "Russia". We walked from above - Kostroma, Yaroslavl, Nizhny Novgorod. And so he comes to Nizhny Novgorod on the ship “Russia”, I meet him, at nine o'clock he leaves the ramp - Naina Iosifovna, he, Tanya, hugs me and says: “Listen, I have so -drew Zhirinovsky,” he never cursed, never cursed. - He in every city comes out to me and prevents me from working. Make it not to be. ” I ask: "Where is he?" “Yes, there he floats behind me along the Volga.” I called the hydraulic operation: "Where is the ship" Alexander Pushkin "?" - "Yes, the locks pass, the Gorky reservoir." I say: "Hold this ship in the gateways." “We cannot delay.” “You will lower the water in the gateways.” “What are you, Mr. Governor, this is an emergency.” “Roll, otherwise I’ll tear you a head.” “We need your written instruction.” - "Now I will give you an indication." I wrote an instruction to detain the ship. In short, we and Yeltsin went to the Nizhny Novgorod Fair, opened a tennis court. At the opening of the tennis court, he said: “Finally I raised my successor.
How serious was Yeltsin, calling you a successor?
Then we began to discuss this when we flew to America, where he began to represent me as a successor to Clinton, then he still introduced me to Kolya. Clinton asked me: "And what time did you become the governor?" - "In 32". - "I, too, became the governor of Arkansas in 32." In short, this thought sat deep in his head at one time, until the 97th, when he appointed me the first deputy prime minister.
And then what happened?
And then Svyazinvest happened, and the oligarchs began to run into him, say that Nemtsov is a villain, that he wanted to destroy the oligarchs. And when they opened the chapel of Boris and Gleb on Arbat, he said a phrase that I cannot forget: “You know, I'm tired of protecting you.” He meant from Berezovsky and other oligarchs ... By the way, I absolutely do not condemn him - indeed, he was already sick then, he was hard, he had a huge load.
About Berezovsky, Gazprom
- And the games of the Kremlin yard -
In the fall of the 97th, I came to him with Chubais (then-First Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation.-The New Times)-to persuade to resign Berezovsky (in 1996-1997-Deputy Head of the Security Council.-The New Times). At the entrance we were met by Tanya (Dyachenko) with Valya (Yumashev). They tell us: "You make the biggest mistake in your life." We in response: "Come on, you do your own business, and we are our own." We went into the office: “You know, Boris Nikolaevich, we, in principle, have one question for you - we have prepared a small decree.” - “Yes? Give a decree here. " We give a decree on the form, there was one visa on it, Ruslan Orekhova (head of the legal department of ap. - The New Times). In our paper it was written: "To dismiss Boris Abramovich Berezovsky, Deputy Secretary of the Council of Security," Yeltsin takes a decree, reads, then says: "I do not like it." We are in shock. He takes the pen of his famous, thick with a golden pen, opens and crosses out the word “decree”. It really became bad for me, I say: "Boris Nikolaevich, what are you doing?" - “Who is Berezovsky in order to shoot him from work by decree? We will remove it by order. ” And he wrote the word "order" with his hand and signed it. We are stunned by saying: “Boris Nikolaevich, this is a very important thing for our country, you can’t even imagine how significant it is.” Yeltsin: "Listen, I have already forgotten who we have taken off from work, let's go just talk like people."
Then we flew to Sweden, it was a famous visit, and was Vyakhirev. Yeltsin passes by me and says: "Well, did they tear this gangster agreement?" - "No". - "Fine". He takes Vyakhirev’s hand, brings him to me, and there is such a protocol: Queen Sylvia, King Karl Gustav IV, Princess Victoria and Yeltsin with Nina Josephic. And so he fights off that all company, takes Vyakhirev by the hand and leads to me, in the other direction. Everything is in shock, he comes up and says: “See Nemtsov? You must break this gangster agreement with him, this is not a joke. Do you understand? " Vyakhirev: "I understood." We were left alone, and Vyakhirev told me: "I will never forget this to you." For nine months I tried to break this treaty, and if not for Yeltsin, the kingdom of heaven, I would never have torn it.
Was Yeltsin humanly pretty?
Yes. Firstly, he was not petty. The second, he, of course, did not like criticism - it is clear who loves her - but he understood what to endure, I liked it. Thirdly, he was not afraid of strong people, he was not afraid of people at all. He once said to me: “You and Chubais laugh at me, you think how drunk, stupid, but I understand everything ...”
How could he know?
Someone informed him ... So, Yeltsin says: “But only you keep in mind-I am the president, and you are the boyar simply. Yes, you are smart, yes, you are educated, but the boyars are simple. I'm not afraid of you, you should be afraid of me. ” That is, he had an absolute understanding of his role, historical role. He did not believe in the theory of conspiracies, was not imaginary. Of course, the authorities make people suspicious - this is understandable, but he never treated us as villains, he respected our opinion.
And another episode, completely household, it characterizes it very much. When I arrived in Moscow (in 1997, to the post of first deputy chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation. - The New Times), each time, and we met with him twice a week, he asked me: “Have you registered? Wife, child, registration - the police can stop, and then, a clinic, a school. It's all serious. ” Me: "Boris Nikolaevich, you are the president of the country ... I will figure it out." I wrote a petition to Luzhkov - “I ask you to register me” ... Naturally, I did not call Luzhkov, it was humiliating to me, but Yeltsin with the Soviet determination asked me every time. Six months passed, he asked me: "Have you registered?" - "No". “I can't listen to this anymore.” He picks up the phone and says: "Luzhkova!" And then the text: "You are shaking yourself, Yuri Mikhailovich." And he puts the phone - neither hello, nor anything happened, nothing - “shallow”. Me: “What did you tell him? He did not understand anything. " Yeltsin: "You are still young, he understood everything, go." I left. The next morning I come to work - Luzhkov’s order about my registration hangs, I was in shock. I call Yeltsin: “Thank you very much, you have done so much for my family, I am so grateful to you. Listen, how did he understand at all? " Yeltsin: “Well, look, he is a Soviet boss, and you are not Soviet. He heard - “shallow”, agree that the text is not very from the lips of the president. He calls (Luzhkov) to the reception room and asks General of the KGB: "Who is Yeltsin?" “Nemtsov sits there.” And he immediately understands what is the matter. So simple, don't you understand this? " This is such a mixture of Soviet and anti -Soviet. Of course, he had values in his head: 100% he believed that freedom was better than censorship, 100%. He considered it absolutely unacceptable to put pressure on the press - he became president on this, on publicity. It was holy for him, it was absolutely impossible to touch.
- About the legacy -
When did you see Boris Nikolayevich for the last time?
Three years ago. Tanya (Dyachenko) believed that I am a very detrimental to him, setting up on a political wave and that he should not be touched, because he is a sick person. In general, they did everything so as not to let me in. Of course, it was very unpleasant for me, but ... we spoke with him several times on the phone, he said “let's meet”, but I knew that Tanya controls all the meetings. I owe him very much personally, and the point is not that he died, and about the dead ... Many people believe that I may be overly idealistic about him. There was probably something so Freudian in this story that he did not have a son, but I did not have a father ...
Evaluated. He said somehow: "Well, he was completely different, it was still different."
What was "differently"?
The story with Skuratov (then - Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation. —The New Times). Yeltsin instructed Putin to deal with Skuratov. And Putin figured out with brilliance. I believe that in that story with Skuratov it was a special operation to demonstrate loyalty to the president ...
... Of course, Yeltsin was controversial, complex, he drank, he was sick ... But he had values. All the conquests of Yeltsin were destroyed: with him there was freedom of speech - now censorship, there was a multi -party system - now a single party, there was federalism, and now the appointed governors, there was political competition, and now there was a continuous strip, there was a connection with the world, and now the iron curtain. That is, at first all Yeltsin conquests were destroyed, and then Yeltsin’s physical death came, and this is symbolic.
Boris Nikolaevich understood what was happening in the country, that his business is destroyed?
He understood, but he was already old ...
But - was afraid to say?
He was not afraid for himself. But it seems to me that he was already thinking about children. He was really afraid of little, he thought about children. And the children inspired him with the idea that if you are a rebel, as before, then we will have problems, and why do you need problems for your grandchildren? I think that as an elderly person he understood: really, why should I do this, why are the young people not? He probably had some arguments.
____________________
1 Oleg Sysuev - in 1991-1997, the head of the administration, then the elected mayor of Samara, in 1997-1998 Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation, from 1998 to May 1999, First Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration.
Interview published in The New Times No. 12 dated April 30, 2007 Photo: RIA Novosti