“Who will pay? Everyone will pay "

About why the problems of truckers are not social, but political, where to expect new protests from and how the authorities will cope with them, the editors of The New Times were argued by a member of the Central Council of the Party of Progress Leonid Volkov, the leader of the National Democratic Party Konstantin Krylov, the independent deputy of the State Duma, the press secretary of the rally in the ledges of the drivers Taisiya Nikitenko and trucker Dmitry Pavlechenko

NT: What do you think, why did the truckers protest have become such a noticeable and vivid phenomenon?

Dmitry Pavli: I am a trucker and I want to say that we gathered in Khimki and in other places not from a good life. We were overlaid with taxes from all sides, now they want to overlap with frank patches. We are already paying enough - transport tax, fuel excise tax for seven rubles per liter.

We just do not pull out. We have our pressing problems, families, loans, debts. And spare parts, which at least doubled in price after the jump in the dollar. Despite the fact that we get a salary in rubles and our salary did not become higher with us.

And we will continue to fight to the end, to the victory - the complete abolition of paid roads. If possible, paid roads, then only if there are duplicate roads that will allow all types of transport for free.

The inevitability of politics

Taisiya Nikitenko: At the same time, there are a lot of people who have nothing to do with protest are trying to get to him and say that they organize it, they help, they lead.

Pasifochenko: We do not politicize our movement, and someone is just PR.

Dmitry Gudkov: It is very important that you come to understanding: there is no separate socio-economic agenda. Many have gone this path. Someone was an ecologist, someone fought with corruption, someone-for changing the tax system ... And everyone said: we do not politicize our movement, we want to achieve justice, here is our little good deed, and we are engaged in it. And you are now stepping on the same rake that we advanced. So I do not want to join, but I can help you, and not only me.

How? We know how to unite people, we know how to use new technologies, Internet, Facebook, Twitter, we are quite popular there. But when we hear the comments of some drivers who say: “We, unlike these, are not a fifth column, we do not cooperate with the State Department, like these, we generally have a purely social protest, we do not politicize” - this is a shame for many. They say about me, for example, that I live in London, but I have never been there.

It is very important for us that you also understand that your problem is not economic, not social. Your problem is political. Because there are new oligarchs who feed from the budget that came upstairs, agreed to collect tax from you. We agreed without a tender, without discussions, without any solutions at the parliament level.

All your protests, if they are unorganized, if you do not unite, if you do not formulate specific requirements and if these requirements are not unified, it will end with nothing.

And believe me, we do not want to be attached to anything. We are interested in the fact that as many people as possible come to understand that you need to be an active citizen, and not subjects. We must unite and not be afraid to contact politicians. And of course, you do not want to intervene in it, but, unfortunately, you will have to.

Gudkov: “It is very important for us that you also understand that your problem is not economic, not social. Your problem is political "

Leonid Volkov: Where does any protest come from? From injustice, and blatant. We gathered in the days of the fourth anniversary of the so-called “swamp protest”, which did not arise because of falsifications by themselves-falsifications in the elections were before that were after. It arose precisely because of the egregious, ostentatious injustice, when people openly called black white.

The protest of the truckers began: egregious injustice, then lies in the eyes: supposedly all over the world it is so arranged. But when they lie, they do not consider that not all truckers, maybe highly educated people, but these are people well horizontally organized. People who either went to Europe themselves, or in parking lots crossed with the Poles, the Latvians ... Yes, in Germany, 12 cents per kilometer 12 tonniks pay. Yes, these 12 Eurocentes seem to be 8 rubles in the current exchange rate, more than fees in Plato. But at our distances, these 3 rubles 70 kopecks are more than half of the margin. And in Germany, this is less than one tenth of the margin.

Pavlechenko: Do ​​not take into account the scale. You imagine the amount that you need to pay if you are going from Krasnoyarsk to Moscow. Plus fuel. How much will the price of products that the truck be lucky grow?

Volkov: And a very indicative moment: the protest arose around the business of the son of Rotenberg, and not around Rotenberg himself. In us, since for 16 years the same people are in power, and with the fertility they are all right, the second generation of elites - children of the Rotenbergs, children of Kovalchuk, children of the Seagull has grown up. And they also begin to want their piece.

At the same time, there is almost nothing to share, and children with appetites are becoming more and more.

Lesson for the authorities

NT: What conclusions can power from history with truckers draw?

Pavlechenko : The authorities, of course, reacts and reacts inconsistently. If the authorities did not resist the truckers, now in Moscow and near Moscow there would be tens of thousands of trucks. People left different regions, they were stopped under any pretext. There are people who came from Volgograd: the truck was driving for three days instead of the laid for 16 hours, because at each post the traffic police simply stopped, took the documents and detained it.

“Volkov:“ We have, since for 16 years the same people are in power, and with the fertility they are all right, the second generation of elites - children of the Rotenbergs, children of Kovalchuk, children of the Seagull has grown up. And they also begin to want their piece "

And on behalf of those who nevertheless reached Moscow and is now in Khimki, I, taking this opportunity, would like to say many thanks to the Muscovites who support us-people help with products, with primary goods, with hygiene products. You yourself understand that living a week in a car is also very difficult.

NT: Can we note any repressive innovations in the actions of the authorities or was everything standard?

Volkov: It seems to me that everything is standard. I just would like to give some tips and warn what the further tactics of the authorities can be. Of course, you will be cracking.

Pavlechenko: They already have pressure on my family.

Konstantin Krylov: And there will be another little thing: you will most likely try to divide into three or four fractions that are quarreling for any reason. You will specifically set out a group of so -called moderate ones that agree to almost all conditions.

Krylov: “The authorities need the trucker to say:“ Well, she’s in FIG, all this rotten movement. We seemed to go out for justice, but then some kind of shit. "

Pavlechenko: And in return they still receive some orders.

Krylov: In return, the authorities will pretend to be talking to them. It is this very group of people that will be appointed “main truckers”, some kind of allegedly wrapped in power will meet with them and promises them something. By the way, they will not give them anything either, but it will be found out later. It is these people that will say that everyone else is extremists or agents of the State Department. You will hear it.

Pavlechenko: It was already.

Krylov: I see. A group of some psychos will also be distinguished that will demand something completely awkward, and the authorities will not speak with them, but they will be shown on TV. It is desirable that they have any crooked and drunken faces, so that they hold homemade posters with idiotic inscriptions in their hands. And everyone who in the middle will be forced to determine the attitude of both moderate and to the psychos. The authorities need the trucker to say: “Well, it is in FIG, all this rotten movement. We seemed to go out for justice, but then some kind of shit. ”

Gudkov: And that's not all. The power will delay negotiations as much as possible so that your emotional protest will turn into a routine. Many people, they are like: there are emotions - came out. And when they understand that you can still quickly achieve anything (but you will not achieve anything quickly), half is just nowhere and will never go again.

Then they will interfere in the situation in the market. To feed the loyal orders, the most active ones - call and tell: “You know, comrade, if we see you again, we will confiscate your car, we will please all your relatives, you will not have any life.”

Why is this happening? This happens because you do not have a single organization. And pay attention: federal media, federal channels, they did not say anything about you.

Pavlechenko : They are silent, they are silent.

Gudkov: How did everyone find out? Yes, because all politicians and activists who have large audiences on the Internet, on social networks or in some remnants of independent media, you were supported. Just imagine, if there were no this media exhaust - you would have been quickly split.

Nikitenko: “wonderful women come to us and say that the aliens who are responsible for Russian people in the universe are now very concerned, and if we do not defeat America, the universe will disappear”

You need to determine clear requirements, determine the forks. Understand what compromises you are ready to go. Quickly establish coordination.

It is important for you now to enlist the support of different political forces, so that in the case of some problems that you will have, they at least find out about them. For this, you need a press center, you even need a site, coordination with different political parties. For you, this is a matter of personal safety, after all.

Nikitenko: You understand what the problem is, among those who want to join, as it was probably not quite successfully said, there is, for example, the Volya party. Wonderful women come to us and they say that the aliens who are responsible for the Russian people in the universe are now very concerned, and if we do not defeat America, the universe will disappear.

And therefore, truckers are very wary of any political assistance, even adequate and useful, they are afraid that all this will result in a farce.

Success criteria

NT: Can it be assumed that the truckers protest will end with success?

Gudkov: It depends on what is considered success. The success is that they will think about what is happening in the country. And you should not only think about yourself now, you must see what problems the teachers, doctors, and support each other. So civil society is formed.

Volkov: I recall my experience (four and a half years) municipal deputy in Yekaterinburg. A group of citizens comes who works with some kind of point development. They are united by a common problem, and this problem for them is the most important in life. You turn on, you begin to help them. And, this is quite real, you sometimes win. As soon as you won, citizens are returning to their peaceful life, and this whole story is crumbling. No horizontal ties are preserved. In any votes in any elections, this is not converted. There should be no illusions here.

Does this should be done from this that you do not need to do this? Of course not. This is a policy of politics: help people, give them tools for self -organization.

Pavlechenko : You are right if we are talking about minor problems. People have achieved their own, stepped aside, this is normal. But to evaluate the problem of truckers globally. This problem will affect everyone. I’ll tell you simple Russian words, if the truckers are bent, they will play the whole country. Consumers of goods will suffer, and we are all consumers.

New victims ...

NT: Are we able to determine where the risk zone is for citizens? To whom will the authorities come for money next time?

Volkov : She will come to everyone, but first of all to those who can take money. I expect an attempt on economically active groups of people. Because a) they, unlike state employees and pensioners, are not a support of the regime and even represent the most antagonistic power class; b) They have something to take.

Krylov: We have a curious mechanism - it has existed about the Petrine times - the import of foreign innovations. As you know, the first thing that was imported was torture machines, all sorts of devices that torn the little men into parts. Any imports of Western institutions are in the same way. They choose all kinds of tools for accepting men. They found out that in the West there are a lot of ways to shake money from men, and now all these methods, no matter how much they are, will be realized here.

I also expect a complete cutting of the remnants of the Soviet social system. Medicine and education are crashing. They will only leave what is needed for the television, someone is taught, but someone is being treated.

Who will pay? Everyone will pay. The assumption that the regime has some kind of social support that the regime appreciates is a strange assumption. They do not value any social supports. Well, if they went to rob truckers, people who were always not just loyal to them, but did not think about any protest at all, it means that they spit deeply on any supports, they believe that there are enough security forces. Here - yes, they will pour it. And all the others are not the support of the regime. The regime support is only power structures.

Pavlechenko: “I’ll tell you simple Russian words, if they are bent for truckers, they will play the whole country. Consumers of goods will suffer, and we are all consumers "

Gudkov: I agree completely. Here you can just see the budget: the main expense article is pensions, about 40% of government spending. Then - military expenses, then power structures, for education and healthcare - much less. Already now social expenses are cut. I believe that the next step is to raise the retirement age. This is already inevitable.

Next. As soon as the reserves end with us, and there will be enough about one and a half to two years, the costs of both security forces and military expenses will decrease, and this will greatly affect domestic policy.

... and new protests

NT: Wait for new protests in the new year? And who can go out in addition to truckers?

Pavlechenko : Truckers in Khimki firmly decided for themselves that they would stand. The people who are now standing are already buying a Christmas tree for their new year, so let the authorities do not flatterize. And even the traffic police inspectors who in every possible way insert sticks into the wheels, they say, not with journalists, of course: "We perfectly understand you, we just have an indication from above."

Krylov: Yes, “we, of course, understand you, but we’ll kill a little” ... I think that in the near future we can expect the growth of deaf mass discontent, which sometimes will happen in the sky with clouds. Clouds rub against each other, lightning arises ... Flash of protests will occur. It is necessary to clearly understand that these protests, firstly, will not dump the regime and, secondly, will not change its policy as a whole. The authorities will act as it acts, because it simply does not have another strategy.

Gudkov: Of course, no protests will demolish the regime, the regime has a large margin of safety. But protests change the mood in society and in elites. When they go out to protest political activists, OMON employees explain that this traitors work out the money of the State Department - it is easy to detain them. But what will happen when riot police will see ordinary people who do not trust the authorities in front of them? How will they behave then? Unknown. The moods in elites can also affect many processes. And it is quite obvious that today the elites have big problems in connection with the policy that is being pursued. Today, those who were the beneficiary of the regime yesterday lose money because they do not have access to credit resources, they have business problems, because the purchasing power of the population is reduced. Someone gets into sanctions lists, and this trend will only intensify. All our nomenclature is built into the international community, believe me.

Protests can change the alignment of the forces, and then a soft change of power, correction of the course ... is possible ...

Krylov: And this is possible. Brezhnev will be changed to Andropov.

GUDKOV: And it is possible that after two or three years in elites, the understanding will be ripened that without relations with the West, without loans, without investment, without technology, it is simply dangerous to move on.

2015: Protests without politics

January 19

A rally of workers of the Vologda Machine -Building Plant

February 7

Miting of foreign currency mortgages in Moscow

February 11

strike of workers of the Berezovsky Plant substation in the city of Berezovsky Sverdlovsk region

February 13-15

Broke of taxi drivers
in Moscow

February 19

A rally of workers "Stroyneftemash" in Kostroma

February 19

strike of workers of Saratovgessstroy CJSC in the city of Balakovo Saratov region

February 25

"Italian strike" AvtoVAZ workers in Togliatti

March 16

Teacher's strike in several villages of the Trans -Baikal Territory

March 16

Ford strike at the Ford plant in Vsevolozhsk

March 19 - April 24

Ambulance hunger strike in Ufa

March 24

"Italian strike" of workers of the Kachkanar mining and processing plant in the Sverdlovsk region

March 24

"Italian strike" doctors of the clinic in Moscow of the region

March 31

Frozen drivers of route taxis in Chita and Irkutsk

April 22

голодовка строителей на космодроме «Восточный» в Амурской области врачей поликлиник

June 6

митинг научных сотрудников в поддержку Фонда «Династия» в Москве

June 18

забастовка рабочих стройхолдинга «Стройпанелькомплект» в Перми

August 6

забастовка сотрудников ОАО «ОмскТрансМаш», дочернего предприятия «Уралвагонзавода»

August 27

забастовка рабочих «Керченского стрелочного завода»

September 2

пикет валютных ипотечников у здания отделения Центробанка
в Санкт-Петербурге

September 8

пикет валютных ипотечников у офиса ВТБ24 в «Москва-Сити»

September 14th

забастовка рабочих Керченского стрелочного завода в Крыму

October 3

митинг учителей у здания Министерства образования и науки в Москве

November 3

забастовка учителей в поселке Шерловая Гора Забайкальского
края

November 29

митинг врачей в Москве

November 30

забастовка сотрудников компании Swissport
Russia

2–10 декабря

голодовка ипотечников в Благовещенске

December 10

забастовка учителей в поселке Приаргунск Забайкальского края

Photo: Alexey Antonenko