C'est la vie. Topic and variations

Ivan Tolstoy: non -periodic conversations with Andrei Gavrilov. Hello, Andrey!

Andrey Gavrilov: Good afternoon, Ivan!

Ivan Tolstoy: Today we have a “topic and variations”, a musical program, a program about music and its creators, about those who picked up, continued, reinvented us to joy. Today - David Bowie. Really Andrey?

Andrey Gavrilov: Yes, absolutely true, although the reason for this is sad, sad. We all know that David Bowie recently passed away, but maybe just now it is worth remembering what he did in music.

Ivan Tolstoy: This would be, first of all, interesting to me, and if it is interesting to me, I’m sure that it will be interesting to our radio listeners. I admit music, I love and very often I do something in the apartment. True, a good musician would say: "So you do not like, Ivan Nikitich, music." No, I love her, but I love one that you do not have to be especially distracted. Of course, I have musical addictions. But David Bowie, recently died, does not belong to the heroes of my novel. Andrey, please explain what kind of figure is this, what is this phenomenon? Why have people went crazy for so many years?

Andrey Gavrilov: I will start, if possible, with two prologues. The first is that when I first heard the music of David Bowie, it was the 70s, I, absolutely like you, did not understand why the cheese-brow, why people go crazy. Shekespeare was immediately remembered - "A lot of noise from nothing." I remember this record, I held it in my hands for a long time, it was in my collection, I broke up without any regret with it, but today it is one of my favorite disks in world rock music. See how tastes and addictions change? This was the first prologue. And the second prologue is that in 2002, the New Musical Express magazine conducted a survey among musicians, representatives of various styles and directions-from popes, the simplest, almost dance pop music, up to academic musicians. And the question was asked only one: "What musician (of course, the 20th century, because we hear composers, but do not hear the performers of earlier centuries) had the greatest impact on your work?" So, according to the results of the survey, which was conducted among representatives of various music, David Bowie was recognized as the most influential musician of the 20th century. A somewhat unexpected result, because, thank God, the 20th century gave us many great musicians in a variety of musical styles, directions, genres, and so on.

(Music)

We just listened to the famous composition of David Bowie, which is called Space Oddity, performed by the London Symphony Orchestra. For me, this is an example of how rock music penetrates that we call pop music, because the London Symphony Orchestra, a respected team, who recorded many beautiful albums and discs, recorded a lot of such light options on a variety of rock themes. The London Symphony Orchestra has a record dedicated to the “cuin”, there is a record dedicated to the “Beatles”, there is a record dedicated to the hits of the 90s, suppose. And now one of their records was dedicated to David Bowie. I’m not sure that this can be called a serious reading of the academic team, but the fact that academic musicians turned to the work of David Bowie, the rock of the musician, in my opinion, is quite curious.

Why is David Bowie are interesting to me and, I think that I am not original here, what is interesting for most listeners who love his music, are used to his music, continue to listen to his music? He is interesting because he changed all the time. All the time changed not because the taste of the public changed, but because he was interested in trying different styles. And, importantly, in these experiments he achieved success almost always. I can also pick up some kind of tool (God forbid, because I don’t know how to play anything) and try different styles. It will be monstrously funny and catastrophic. Greater musicians than me tried themselves in different styles. For example, Paul McCartney wrote oratorios, and ballets, and some symphonic works, we will leave it on his conscience, I think that this did not disgrace him in any case, but this would not bring him the slightest glory. But with David Bowie it turned out quite the opposite. He could succeed in something, then turn 180 degrees, go in the completely opposite direction, do something completely different and achieve success in this. David Bowie, and we all were very lucky in this, a variety of music genres were interesting. He began as a rock musician, he completed his life as a rock musician, but besides this he wrote that he is still studying and, I think, will be studied by amateurs. You know, there are such dissertations - "What is great John Smith in modern music, and why does it listen to 50 thousand people under the age of 15?" No, he will be remembered precisely because the musicians study and love him, forgive me this stupid expression, serious music. The ideas that he developed in instrumental compositions and in his song works turned out to be so unexpected and interesting that often the public did not have time for them. The fact is that David Bowie has, I think that I am not alone in this statement, not very many songs that can be humble. Yes, he has a "Space Oddity", I do not undertake to correctly translate the name of this song, which even the ISS commander, Canadian or American, sang there, and this video was at one time a hit of the Internet - David Bowie’s song sounded at the space station! Yes, it is not complicated, yes, it can be singed. He has a song "Let's Dance", which everyone is singing on all the dance floor of the world is simple, it can be singing. But ninety percent of his songs cannot be singing. They have a very complex musical structure. I think that is why it is quite difficult for his music to do some other matter-you want, you want, you need to listen to his music. When I fell into my hands the first record of David Bowie in my biography, I was not ready for rock music. Even Pink Floyd - wonderful music - he listened once, and then it can go background. Here David Bowie, as a rule, is not.

Ivan Tolstoy: What is the most-most-most David Bowie? Already so that Bowe does not exist?

Andrey Gavrilov: I don’t know how to answer this question. Because he changed so often, he conducted such opposite experiments that I do not take the saying what the most-most David Bowie is. As I already said, “Space Oddity”, in general, songs of the early period, plus more songs later, is what he attracted attention to, which made his glory, moreover, worldwide glory. He then became friends, for example, with John Lennon and with McCartney. With Lennon, they once worked together. With McCartney, however, no - they were just friends. But he attracted attention to himself with the first songs. But I know a lot of musical critics who are completely delighted with his last Blackstar album. This is an album that David Bowie received, picked up two days before his death. It is probably not very good to say this word, but he was very lucky that he saw him, that he was able to hold in his hands the product of his work. Even in the Internet era, when everything can be uploaded to the network for universal use, anyway, pick up a plate, whether it be a black vinyl disk or a silver CD, it's still nice. I remember that many years ago, when my dad died, he managed to get a signal copy of his book the day before his death. And I am absolutely sure that for him it was, despite his very poor health, a moment of happiness. I am sure that, despite the fact that the pope had only four books, and David Bowie had more than thirty different discs, and of course, the severity of perception was not like that, it was still a happiness for him to get his disk. So, very many musical critics believe that the highest achievement of David Bowie is exactly the last album. The songs "Blackstar" or "Lazarus" are two main songs from this album. And, probably, they are also right. I do not know what the most-most David Bowie is. For me now David Bowie is completely different. If you do not mind, I want to show a piece of work of David Bowie, who is most interesting to me today, January 2016. The fact is that in the stormy biography of David Bowie there is, the so -called Berlin period. It was a time when David Bowie, or to shock the audience ... And he was a master of this matter. Moreover, not to play the audience, not to say something "crest", but to shock the audience to the very foundations. He adored it. So, when David Bowie stated that he was attracted, albeit external, but still signs of Nazism, and when he photographed in a Nazi cap, I remember that this photograph for several years pushed the very idea of the release of David Bowie’s record in the Soviet Union. But this is another story. So, when he became interested in this either in order to shock the audience, or from the abundance of some not quite permitted chemical substances that he at that time was fond of, in short, David Bowie went to get acquainted with the original source, he went to Berlin. The stay for several years in Berlin cured him of both of the other error. From Berlin, he left almost completely stopping taking drugs, and once and for all abandoning the idea of joking or speaking positively on the topics of Nazism. But the stay in Berlin led to another thing. It was there that David Bowie wrote his famous records. The so -called "Berlin trilogy" - "Low", "Heroes" and "Lodger". Three albums in which he collaborated with an outstanding English composer and rock performer Brian Ino, in which he included a lot, which is uncharacteristic for rock stars, instrumental compositions. Remember our favorite Beatles. So, right away, on a vapid, what instrumental compositions do they have and how many of them? In addition to Flying with "Magical Mystery Tour" so, right away, you will not remember anything. Despite the fact that this was not accepted among the rock of the stars, David Bowie wrote a lot of instrumental compositions. And at the same time, now the great, and then just the famous American composer Philip Glass wrote a symphony on the motives of the instrumental, but a little more song, the compositions of David Bowie. He wrote two symphonies. He called them what the albums of the English musician were called - "Low" and "Heroes". And it is precisely as the symphonic works of Philip Glass that they now exist. I suggest you listen to the topic of "Warsaw", the composition from the album "Low" David Bowie, but in the arrangement and performance of Philip Glass and the orchestra.

(Music)

I propose to take a step away from the "serious" musicians. For example, I cannot fully think over and come up with this division - light music, serious music. In my opinion, everything is so mixed. Remember, at the school at the lessons of physics there was a concept of diffusion, when two polished pieces of metal, in our case, it was iron and gold, connected to each other, they simply compressed tightly, and after some time it turned out that the penetration of the metal into the metal began. So, this diffusion of different genres led to the fact that before everything was clear, rock and roll is light music, and Shostakovich is serious, and now, at least crack, you no longer understand. Maybe Shostakovich is not quite the right example, given that he processed jazz topics. And this is compote, this is the Varev, which we are now observing - a very interesting phenomenon in music. And one of the manifestations of this interesting phenomenon is that very often jazz and fatal musicians are already losing the boundaries of their genres. It is already clear that "Sex Pistols" is not jazz, and Oscar Peterson is not rock, but even the great Ella Fitzgerald performed the rock of the song, in particular, the songs "Beatles", and it did not bore anyone. There is such a jazz singer and composer in America named LeA Delaria, she is rather known as a movie and a television actress, but she acts a lot at jazz festivals, that is, she is a recognized jazz performer who recorded not so long ago, namely in June 2015, the album on the topics of David Bowie. She called his "David House" or "David's House" - "House of David". She devoted the whole album to David Bowie's work. David Bowie had one album of 1983, which was called "Let's Dance", and this was his most frank attempt to make such a priest Besseller. Indeed, the plate is very popular, but, from my point of view, is little interesting musically. I always thought so, until I listened to how LeA Delaria performs the composition from this album called "Modern Love" - "Modern Love".

(Music)

Lea Delaria spoke about David Bowie as follows: “I was in love with him all my life, I think that he is the greatest author of songs of the 20th century. And I’m not joking, this is so. But few believed me, and the leadership of the company did not go towards me-I had to declare a fundraiser through the Internet. I announced and, thank God, the disk became extremely successful.” I must say that she stated this before David Bowie died, that is, there is no speculation on the natural grief about the departure of this musician.

Ivan Tolstoy: Andrei, is this the only jazz example of borrowing music by David Bowie? Other jazzmen were interested in them?

Andrei Gavrilov: It is incredibly interesting that, despite the absolute respect that David Bowie inspired by other musicians, not a lot of representatives of other directions played his music. Still, she is not one of those who immediately lure the audience. And jazz musicians who recorded the music of David Bowie, so far a little. I think that their number will increase - now the attention of the listeners is focused on the name of David Bowie. But if you take it on a vapid, that is, a person named Dylan Hou. This is an English jazz drummer, by the way, the son of a guitarist from the "Yes" group, if you remember this. They have the main guitarist - Steve Hou. So, this is his son. Even when he studied at college, he organized a jazz group playing jazz processing of songs of groups like "U2", "Clash", "Bauhaus" and David Bowie. Dylan Haw immediately could not, as usual, achieve any success, and worked as a window with a window. But then the perseverance and work were all overwhelmed, and in 2007 he created his own group, which played mainly David Bowie's compositions. By the way, this is an absolute coincidence - compositions from the same albums, on the basis of which Philip Glass wrote his symphonies. He played compositions from the albums "Low" and "Heroes". And in 2014, he and his group “Subterranean”, “underground” (I don’t know why they are so called, the only explanation that they played for a long time in the club, which is located below the ground level), recorded a record called “New Designs On Bowie's Berlin”, that is, “A new look at Berlin Bowie”. Let's listen to how their jazz octet plays the instrumental composition of David Bowie called "The Decade of the Arts" - "Art Decade".

(Music)

David Bowie and Jazz. As I already said, I am absolutely sure that this direction will develop, but if you take a condition for today, then, first of all, even earlier than Dylan Howe, whom we just listened, I recall a pianist standing at the junction of rock and jazz - Mike Garzon. This is an American pianist who made a name for himself, working with David Bowie. He began to play music before, he was already such an avant-garde jazz musician, and he was invited by the experimental performer Annette Picock in the early 70s. David Bowie heard Annette Picock and invited her to a tour with his team. Can you imagine what fame is for a novice performer? But she refused. She said that she has one music, David Bowie has a completely different one, she does not see the points of contact. Nevertheless, David Bowie continued his searches and remembered the pianist who played in the group Annette Picock, this was Mike Garzon, and called him to work together. Garson then recalled:

“I told David Bowie that I, in general, play the avant-garde. We recorded the album“ Aladdin Sane ”(one of David Bowie’s most famous albums), and everyone played simple English rock and roll, and, suddenly, David Bowie says:“ Well, play the solo. ”And we recently met. “No,” says David Bowie, “I have not been a solo in the spirit of Latin American music,” Bowie said, “you said that you are playing an avant -garde. Come on, come on! ". I say:" David, I can play the avant-garde solo, but I'm afraid that after that we will all be left without work, because no one will buy this music. "Nevertheless, I played him an avant-garde solo, and from one double, without repetitions, it entered this album that we recorded. So far I have received letters of music lovers that are me. Congratulations on how this solo is well played and I answer: "Thank you to say to David Bowie, because he is a brilliant producer, he allowed me to do what I considered necessary."

Mike Garzon worked with David Bowie on many albums, but in parallel he acted more and more like a jazz pianist. As a result, jazz pianists reluctantly admitted that this member of the ROC group still knows how, something maybe he was invited to jazz festivals, and, I think, they will continue to invite further. And it so happened that in 2011, Mike Garzon recorded the album on the themes of David Bowie's songs. He called him "Bowie Variations" - "Bowie Varis". He released it in July 2011. И сейчас мы послушаем самую, как я говорил, попсовую мелодию Дэвида Боуи, самый большой его хит 80-х годов – "Let's Dance"– в исполнении Майка Гарсона.

(Music)

Иван Толстой: Андрей, вы рассказывали, что не только поп исполнение, не только джазовые вариации, но и самые что ни на есть классические версии существуют музыки, написанной Дэвидом Боуи.

Андрей Гаврилов: Есть такой забавный струнный квартет в Лос-Анджелесе, который почему-то называется "Витамин". Я долго пытался понять, почему они взяли такое название. Но очень часто музыкальные коллективы берут названия совершенно с потолка. Один из самых знаменитых струнных коллективов второй половины 20-го века– "LaSalle" – взял свое название только потому, что когда нужно было заполнить контракт, они выглянули в окно и увидели название улицы – La Salle. И быстренько написали, до этого у них названия не было. Может быть, и у "Витамина" какая-нибудь подобная история. Струнный квартет "Витамин" занимается тем, что, помимо собственного творчества, пишет песни на темы известных поп и рок исполнителей. Том Талли, альтист и аранжировщик коллектива, сказал, что "цель существования нашего квартета – привнести рок-н-рольные отношения к музыке, к творчеству, в классическую музыку или, наоборот, соединить классическую технику и рок-н-рольный драйв". Если я вам скажу, сколько у них сейчас записано пластинок, вы или мне не поверите, Иван, или сочтете, что это какие-то лабухи, которые пишут постоянно, лишь бы заработать. This is wrong. Всего в их официальной дискографии 260 альбомов. Но здесь надо учесть, что там довольно много сборников. Но, все равно – огромное количество. И несмотря на это, да, конечно, это не квартет Баланеску, это не квартет "Кронос", это не тот струнный квартет, чье творчество будут изучать десятилетия, и, тем не менее, это серьезные классические музыканты, которые выбрали совершенно непривычную для классических музыкантов музыкальную стезю. Так вот, струнный квартет "Витамин" сейчас нам с вами и нашим слушателям сыграет одну из самых знаменитых ранних песен Дэвида Боуи "Ziggy Stardust".

(Music)

Я забыл сказать, что иногда они приглашают к себе еще бас гитариста или ударника – тех музыкантов, которые им нужны в данный момент, по-прежнему сохраняя название – струнный квартет "Витамин".

Иван Толстой: Я напомню, что на волнах Радио Свобода в передаче "Темы и вариации" мы рассказываем о Дэвиде Боуи и его музыкальных последователях. Кто следующий, Андрей?

Андрей Гаврилов: Я бы даже сказал – о Дэвиде Боуи с его не песенной стороны. Мне очень интересно всегда было смотреть как музыканты в своем творчестве (кто-то пытается, у кого-то это получается очень хорошо) переходят в другие жанры. Это интересно бывает, потому что нередки те случаи, когда какая-то общая одаренность, общий талант того или иного исполнителя позволяют ему проникнуть в секреты мастерства совершенно других музыкальных направлений. Эта смесь бывает обычно очень интересной, если она успешна. Мне, например, интересно слушать экспериментальные инструментальные композиции Дэвида Боуи. Судя по тому, что я знаю, что я нашел, и что мы сейчас с вами слушаем, это интересно не только мне, и меня это радует. Я хотел бы, к завершению нашей программы, еще раз вспомнить про величайшего композитора, нашего современника, не самого великого, я не буду выстраивать такую лестницу, но, по крайней мере, одного из самых великих композиторов 20-го века. Это Филип Гласс, который увлекся творчеством Дэвида Боуи и написал две симфонии на мотивы его альбомов. В свое время, когда Филип Гласс только начинал и только пытался создавать свою музыку, которая тогда запросто получила ярлык минимализма, от которого потом Филип Гласс отказывался, когда он только начинал выступать, музыкальные критики его не приняли. Большинство критиков считало, что это какое-то издевательство над слушателями и никуда не годится. Здесь интересная деталь. Филип Гласс был сыном эмигранта, который приехал в Америку, это был литовский еврей, которой не мог устроиться на работу и открыл магазин пластинок. Так вот, Филип Гласс учился на тех пластинках, которые не продавались в магазине и которые отец, чтобы не забивать склад, приносил домой ящиками. Это, с одной стороны, были пластинки Бетховена, которые в том районе, где они жили, считались слишком серьезной музыкой, или Шуберта. Позже Филип Гласс сказал, что Шуберт – один из его любимых композиторов. А, с другой стороны, это была сложная в то время для восприятия музыка Хиндемита, Бартока, Шенберга, Шостаковича. И вот на этой смеси и вырос Филип Гласс. Так что не удивительно, что, несмотря на попытку создать рок альбом (у него была пластинка "Жидкие песни"), он все-таки ушел в так называемую "серьезную академическую музыку". Так вот, он уже работал несколько лет как серьезный академический композитор, но не мог толком найти площадку для своих экспериментов. Он выступал на рубеже 60-х и 70-х годов, например, в Музее американского искусства Уитни или в Музее Гуггенхайма. Там ему давали инструмент, время выступать, и вокруг него собиралась толпа поклонников, которые любили не столько его, все-таки он был не поп звездой, а любили его музыку, его эксперименты. Вот в этой толпе уже тогда находились Дэвид Боуи и Брайан Ино, которые очень высоко ценили творчество начинающего композитора Филипа Гласса. Позже Филип Гласс написал две симфонии на мотивы Дэвида Боуи, а Дэвид Боуи, когда его пригласили в 1979 году выступить в роли ди-джея на радиостанции и представить свою любимую музыку, среди рок композиторов Литл Ричарда, Кертиса Кинга, группы "Дорз" и других музыкантов, которые прозвучали в этой программе, вдруг представил и отрывок из оперы Филипа Гласса "Эйнштейн на берегу". 4-я симфония Филипа Гласса называется "Heroes" по названию альбома Дэвида Боуи. И я хочу сказать, что здесь есть интересная историческая деталь. Позже, в 1987 году, когда альбом "Heroes" уже десять лет как вышел и продавался по всему миру, Дэвид Боуи сыграл концерт с программой с этой пластинки у Берлинской стены, с западной стороны. По условиям концерта (а условия выдвигал Дэвид Боуи) он сыграл этот концерт вплотную к стене, так что тысячи поклонников Дэвида Боуи и рок-музыки вообще на восточной стороне смогли услышать концерт, даже если они не видели сцену и музыкантов – все равно они стояли около стены, насколько можно было приблизиться, и слушали концерт. После этого начались уличные беспорядки, и историки сейчас всерьез пишут, что эти уличные беспорядки были одним из первых толчков, который, спустя несколько лет, привел к падению стены. Давайте послушаем фрагмент из 4-й симфонии Филипа Гласса "Heroes".

(Music)

Я рад, Иван, что мы смогли поговорить о такой неожиданной стороне творчества Дэвида Боуи, неожиданной для большинства слушателей, потому что, я уверен, что для всех Дэвид Боуи это, в первую очередь, рок-певец, рок-музыкант. Его смерть была большим ударом для всех. И в завершение нашей программы я хочу поставить одну странную запись. Дело в том, что, после смерти Дэвида Боуи, в городе Утрехт (Голландия), один из проходящих по улице туристов вдруг услышал, что церковные колокола в одном из храмов играют музыку Дэвида Боуи. Он успел включить камеру и в интернете можно найти эту маленькую, на одну минуту, запись, и послушать этот совершенно неожиданный трибьют, то есть неожиданную дань уважения великому музыканту. Дань уважения, исполненную на церковных колоколах. Я думаю, это было самое неожиданное прощание с Дэвидом Боуи.

(Music)