Flights without excesses

Sergey Medvedev: As we dreamed about the future 10 years ago, when rumors came about completely fantastic prices in Europe, when people said that they were flying from Brussels to London for $ 5, and, say, from Berlin to Mallorca-for 15 or 25 euros ... some completely fantastic prices ... And then the word "Lawkostra" appeared in the vocabulary.

Finally, the time has come when these same low -cost airlines came to Russia. But then a new problem arose - people are unhappy. Probably, many remember what scandals were not so long ago with the Victory airline and with all its new practices. Many people write that people are forced to pay even for manual treasury, or, say, they were forced to pay extra to sit together, otherwise the husband and wife, wife and child are necessarily planted at different chairs.

This is an interesting reason to figure out what, in fact, the mechanics of the action of low -cost airlines is how great their future is in the world of the air industry and what the future the world of air transportation awaits. We are talking about this with Leonid Ryaboshton , the head of the Avia and the founder of Onetwotrip .

Let's see the word first: everyone thinks that the “low -cost airline” is a low price, but it is not so ...

Leonid Ryaboshtan: This word is related directly to the company's business, suggests that there is low costs. Lawkostra airlines by hook or by crook are trying to optimize their expenses, minimize the time of courts of ships and cut all additional services that are usually included in the ticket price. Thus, they allow themselves to compete with classic carriers.

The time has come when low -cost airlines, budgetary airlines came to Russia

Sergey Medvedev: What are they saving on?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Basically, this is conditional savings, they optimize their expenses. They use the fleet exclusively from new courts, which allows them to achieve low downtime due to repairs, reduce the costs of this repair. Aircraft can be purchased with relatively large batches with a large discount and then, for the production of seven to eight years, can be sold almost at the market value of a new aircraft.

Sergey Medvedev: People are afraid that the low -cost aircraft have old broken aircraft - it turns out that this is not so?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Lawcoster has the latest aircraft. Lawkostra is much more punctual than classic airlines, because for them it is really money.

Sergey Medvedev: They have a very fast turnover.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: For example, the plane flies from Barcelona to Seville: the flight flies to Seville at 8.35, and at 9.10 it already flies back to Barcelona. This can be seen even in the format of communication with passengers. In the same “victory”, passengers are recommended to quickly leave the plane so as not to detain him on the ground, because he soon has the next flight.

Sergey Medvedev: Like Ilf and Petrov with the house of the peasant: "Sleep rather, another needs your pillow." This is probably based on some trends among passengers? A new passenger appeared, and this is no longer a passenger of the mid -twentieth century who expects a cup of coffee and a stewardess with a candy?

Lawcoster has the newest aircraft

Leonid Ryaboshtan: As practice shows, everyone expects a stewardess with candy and a cup of coffee, but at the same time everyone is adapted, they want to fly cheaper and much more often. There are many more flights, people began to fly more often on internal flights home, to work and so on.

Sergey Medvedev: And such mobility leads to new expectations from carriers.

Is it possible to compare the low -cost airlines with minibuses? By the way, there is such a model that I have not seen in Europe - shuttle. I flew a long time ago in America-the plane sets off as it was filled.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: I have not met this in Europe yet. I think that in America they probably also died out over time. The airline still plans its budget, so it prefers to sell places in advance.

Sergey Medvedev: Here, as I understand it, there is an optimization of the airplane time in the air and optimizing the efforts of the staff - so that one employee of the airline serves as many passengers as possible.

The “Victory” of the plane is on average in the air for about 14 hours - this is a fairly serious indicator

Leonid Ryaboshtan: That's right. For Victory, for example, the plane on average is in the air for about 14 hours-this is a fairly serious indicator, usually for a classic airline-about 7-8 hours. Plus, the same “Victory” has one employee serves five thousand passengers a year, and in classic this indicator is much lower.

Sergey Medvedev: In what directions do the low -cost airlines work mainly?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: These are usually small flights, from one to three hours. But now there are exceptions, Norvigen appeared, a low -cost airline that flies from Reykjavik already in the United States.

Sergey Medvedev: With a transplant through Europe, you can cheaply fly away from Reykjavik to America.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: There are a lot of combinations, how to do it. This, of course, is not for Russia, but for Europeans this is quite a running option. Norvigen also has a large network in Europe. It is much cheaper. For example, a business class at Norvigen on the flight of London-Los Angeles costs about a thousand dollars, and the nearest direct British has around four to five thousand.

Sergey Medvedev: Among other things, as I understand it, do they work at the expense of new, previously not used airports?

Lawkostra is not used by the main airports, but those that are a little further from the city

Leonid Ryaboshtan: They do not use the main airports, but those that are a little further from the city. This, by the way, is the problem of Russian low -cost airlines - unfortunately, there is no choice of airports.

Sergey Medvedev: Now they opened Zhukovsky.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: But he has poor transport accessibility, he can’t get there. Other analogues in Russia, it turns out, no.

Sergey Medvedev: In the West, where “Victory” flies, completely new airports: memmingen, who is located on an hour with a little by bus or by train from Munich, and instead of Milan, she flies to Bologna.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: In Russia, unfortunately, this is not available. By the way, if you want to save money, it is also important to consider this moment - to calculate the road from the door to the door. A more remote airport will be more expensive if you want to go by taxi, for example.

Sergey Medvedev: Usually you come in: my God, cheap tickets ... And then you begin to count: 20 hours on a transplant, and even 8 - how much you will take a restaurant on this transplant ... You begin to calculate how convenient the airport is ...

In general, if you look around Russia, are they much cheaper?

A more remote airport will be more expensive if you want to go by taxi

Leonid Ryaboshtan: It all depends on the specific direction and specific dates. I think Victory is now one of the cheapest companies in this direction. But it happens that the “victory” is either sold out or cheap tariffs are sold out, and some other airlines crawl into the top. Our classic carriers are also gradually adapting to a low-like model. For example, already three or four airlines, including Siberia and Ural, introduced non -wagging tariffs, and they are competitive with a “victory” in the wake. But when compared with classic tariffs, then, of course, the “victory” wins from them, even if additional baggage, which you may be acquired.

Sergey Medvedev: What is your position in the scandal that I mentioned, who was right here is a company or passengers: a mother-Russian mother and an Italian father with a child who are deliberately planted to pay for the opportunity to sit together?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Of course, in this case I am on the airline. Buying tickets, people saw where they were planted, they had the opportunity to sit together at the stage of work with booking on the airline’s website, they could also do this at the registration rack. Perhaps they did not understand this. But it seems to me that it was an attempt to save.

From the point of view of marketing, bad PR is also PR

Sergey Medvedev: Then this actually turned into a fight with stewardesses, with a crew, a violent seeding.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: I certainly do not approve of the fight.

Sergey Medvedev: The question is still in perception. Social networks will be mainly on the side of passengers. There is a feeling that there are some of the initially inherent in the flight of good: free luggage, food and the possibility of choosing a place. It is probably difficult to understand that these are all things that can be saved on.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: It must be understood that if the airline should lay such a consumption in the model, then it will increase the average cost for all passengers. No one will benefit from this.

Sergey Medvedev: I read that a similar episode was with Ryanair - they behave even more impudently and tough. The passenger demanded that he be provided with a chair, they did not provide a chair, he sued them, won the court, and after that they increased the cost of tickets to transfer legal costs to all passengers.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: From the point of view of business, this is a fairly logical move.

Sergey Medvedev: You are a man from the industry ... This is a marketing move, very aggressive ... I do not at all approve the last scandal with Aviasales, with their sexist statements, with what is happening on the network. But from the point of view of marketing, bad PR is also PR.

Airlines look at the super -efficient model of low -cost airlines and also want part of this pie

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Of course. On the one hand, there are rules for transporting airline, everyone is versed in them in very detail, and next time they will make a conscious choice. And on the other hand, everyone has a very great desire to save.

Sergey Medvedev: Aggressive marketing is also part of the game.

You say that ordinary airlines follow this path. Apparently, this is generally a path to the future - will ordinary companies cut these bones?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: In general - yes, of course. Airlines look at the super -efficient model of low -cost airlines and also want part of this pie. Clients who used classic flights do not go anywhere, but at the same time, airlines want to hook the market of those who want to fly with low -cost airlines, and they introduce appropriate offers. In general, this is a good practice, because the flights become more accessible, pricing is more transparent, you understand what you are paying for, you can choose the options yourself, and not take something superfluous. For example, you do not want to eat on an hourly flight - do not eat, you want to eat - an extra.

Sergey Medvedev: I see more and more often: in Aeroflot they refuse hot nutrition.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: To admit, if you fly with an aeroflot and get a sandwich, it will be a little disappointed. And if you take the “Victory” tariff and do not get any power, then you count on this.

Sergey Medvedev: At least flying between Moscow and Helsinki (this is a fairly short flight, about an hour and a half), I do not count on hot food at all, like five or ten years ago: I know that they will give me a sandwich and some kind of juice to choose from.

Do ordinary airlines save on the size of the places? Are there any standards for the width of the chair, the size of the knee space?

Lawkostra is going to reduce comfort for the passenger, make the layout as dense as possible

Leonid Ryaboshtan: There are minimal ones - all this is recorded in the standards of the International Association of Air carriers. Of course, low -cost airlines go to reduce comfort for the passenger, make the layout as dense as possible. For example, only an economy class is available in the cabin, and due to this, the number of passengers that can be transported by one aircraft increases.

Sergey Medvedev: In Russia now there are only "Victory" or are new low -cost airlines come out?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Only "Victory".

Sergey Medvedev: There were attempts - "Aviation" , Sky Express ...

Leonid Ryaboshtan: They had fundamental mistakes in the business department. Sky Express used old planes, there were downtime due to repairs, the schedule was violated, there was a very large negative from users of this airline. “Aviation” used the planes more and more, but Russian legislation was not quite ready for this kind of proposals: there were no return tariffs and the opportunity to refuse food on board - all this was imposed by law. When Victory appeared, all these problems have already been resolved, plus the tax system was additionally optimized, on internal flights they reduced value added tax from 18 to 10%, that is, the economy has become much simpler.

"Victory" - "daughter" "Aeroflot"; They can use the economy of scale, buy aircraft at a cheaper corporate price

Sergey Medvedev: In addition, "Victory" - "daughter" "Aeroflot"; They can use the economy of scale, buy aircraft at a cheaper, group, corporate price.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Of course, "victory" uses this. They have their own budget, but for purchases, I think this is used.

Sergey Medvedev: "Victory" is now successful? This is the "good dealer" that was redone. What are the economic indicators now?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Yes, they earn good money, plus they went to fifth place among Russian carriers - this is a very good indicator for two years of activity.

Sergey Medvedev: How do you see the future of air transportation? Will tariffs increase or decrease? Will there be any new low-cost aircraft?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: The Russian market, of course, has where to grow, we still have a rather low competition in the market. But, on the other hand, there are not so many potential users.

Sergey Medvedev: Do people travel less?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: We have potentially about 60 million people who can travel somewhere-this is a able-bodied population who has money. I think that in this regard, at least another low -cost airline should appear. Siberia has such a unit - Globus Airline: I think they can develop in this direction, position themselves like a low -cost airline.

Sergey Medvedev: But prices, apparently, will remain at the same level. Despite the fall of the ruble and the cost of oil over the past two years, the prices in the air transportation remained the same.

The Russian market, of course, is where to grow. But, on the other hand, there are not so many potential users

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Any appearance of a low -cost airline in the market, one way or another, generally lowers prices. On average, the minimum cost decreases in the market. Now it has become much more accessible to everyone. A plane is very often a very real alternative to the same train.

Sergey Medvedev: I think the plane has long been cheaper than the train, at least on the Moscow -Petersburg route it is definitely cheaper to fly than to ride.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: I think that we will find a fairly active marketing struggle. For users, this, of course, is a big plus, because prices will decrease, the proposals of the loyalty program will become better and better for them. Lawkostra gradually adopt the component of classic airlines. For users of aggregators, it is good that we have a loyalty program common to all airlines. You buy a ticket for Ryanair, get up to 2% back through a mobile application, buy a hotel, and you can use all this together to pay for your subsequent travels.

Sergey Medvedev: The aggregator accumulates glasses, points for each person.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: That is, you book a hotel with us, get 10% of the cost back, and you may be enough to pay for the flight.

Sergey Medvedev: This Lawkost epidemic probably affects the hotel business?

We are waiting for a fairly active marketing struggle. For users this is a big plus, because prices will decrease

Leonid Ryaboshtan: Of course, the appearance of the aggregator, which allows citizens to effectively rent apartments, makes hotel networks also revise their position, make some home apart-hotels without a special service, just an apartment with some minimum service. Once a week they will come to you, replace linen, put towels, but every day it will not happen. The cost, of course, is much lower here.

Sergey Medvedev: In theory, aggregators will generally lead to the death of travel agencies? The modern advanced user will not go to the travel agency - he will probably combine himself.

Leonid Ryaboshtan: If you take such a developed market as the United States, then there is a very great share of online sales-90% is bought online.

Sergey Medvedev: And how much is in Russia?

Leonid Ryaboshtan: In Russia, I don’t have an exact figure, but we are growing, and we have where to grow in terms of online. This is less concerned with air transportation, to a larger one - hotels and to a greater extent - tours. We have now launched the “Hotel Plus Flight” proposal, which allows you to save a significant part of the cost - up to 30%.

Sergey Medvedev: That is, this is not some classic vacation for a week or two, but a person flies for three to four days, and if he bought a hotel plus a flight in one place and rented a car, then there will be discounts for all three positions?

We have now launched the “Hotel Plus Flight” proposal, which saves a significant part of the cost - up to 30%

Леонид Рябоштан: Да, в сумме будет дешевле.

Сергей Медведев: Это есть только у вас или это делают все агрегаторы?

Леонид Рябоштан: Динамических пакетов в России практически нет. У нас есть две-три компании, которые предлагают такую услугу.

Туров у нас пока нет, но мы обязательно их сделаем. Там, конечно, 90% продаж происходит онлайн. Я думаю, с совершенствованием систем бронирования туров они рано или поздно неизбежно должны выходить в онлайн. В какой-то момент это тоже будет очень быстро растущий рынок, на котором можно хорошо заработать.

Сергей Медведев: Очень хотелось бы, чтобы было одно окно, как прежние турагентства, но чтобы это было одно интернет-окно. Сейчас, когда я планирую короткое путешествие, я иду в три места. Я иду, предположим, к вам, чтобы найти самые дешевые авиабилеты, потом иду на Booking , где, опять-таки, через агрегатор беру отель, потом ищу дешевую прокатную машину.

Непрозрачными остаются внутренние издержки авиакомпании на ее персонал и другие цели

Леонид Рябоштан: К сожалению, при таком подходе вы лишаете себя возможности воспользоваться отельными предложениями, которые могут быть проданы только в составе пакета. Это делается для того, чтобы скрыть истинную стоимость услуг, чтобы ни авиаперевозчик, ни отель не дисконтировал слишком сильно.

Сергей Медведев: Есть ли тенденция к большей прозрачности ценообразования? Это, по-моему, одна из самых непрозрачных вещей. Почему билет Лондон – Лос-Анджелес должен стоить тысячу долларов?

Леонид Рябоштан: Есть прямые издержки, связанные с перелетом. Топливный сбор, аэропортовый сбор – это все достаточно прозрачно, на любом билете написаны таксы, которые платит человек. Непрозрачными остаются внутренние издержки авиакомпании на ее персонал и другие цели. С теми же самыми лоукостами это становится немножко более прозрачным, потому что тариф стремительно уменьшается, стремится к нулю, а сервисы добрасываются в него сверху. Прозрачность, безусловно, увеличивается.

Сергей Медведев: В дальнейшем, видимо, человек будет конструировать: тут с питанием, там без питания, тут с трансфером, там без трансфера.

Лоукосты сами занимаются дистрибуцией, сами себя пиарят, сами себя продают в онлайне

Леонид Рябоштан: Да, это глобальный тренд. Та же международная ассоциация авиаперевозчиков работает над новыми форматами данных обмена авиакомпаний с агентствами, которые позволят авиакомпаниям детально донести информацию о своих сервисах, о том, как строится стоимость перелета с возможностью включения и исключения всех возможных дополнительных услуг. То есть это действительно будет похоже на конструктор.

Сергей Медведев: Больше идет сетевая экономика, экономика 2.0 (в том числе, работают и агрегаторы, и лоукостеры) или все-таки классическая экономика, когда есть поставщик услуг и есть их потребители?

Леонид Рябоштан: Если говорить о дистрибуции этих предложений, то она немножко меняется. В классическом варианте авиакомпании продавали билеты в своих офисах, кассах, потом появились офлайновые агентства, которые позволили агрегировать эти предложения. Это стало возможно с развитием информационных технологий.

Сергей Медведев: Сейчас по-прежнему популярны старые большие сети типа "Сейбор" и "Амадеус" – огромные базы данных, где есть все тарифы?

Леонид Рябоштан: Это то, на чем держится большая часть дистрибуции современных авиакомпаний.

Вот еще один из форматов новой экономики, и все это ради блага потребителей

Сергей Медведев: Ваши серверы все равно работают через них?

Леонид Рябоштан: Да. Развивается тенденция подключения напрямую к поставщикам, но проблема в том, что сейчас нет единого стандарта. Сейчас это внедряется, но пока далеко от полноценного внедрения на большом количестве поставщиков.

Сергей Медведев: В целом новая экономика формируется с очень индивидуализированными, персонализированными путешествиями?

Леонид Рябоштан: Да. Лоукосты сами занимаются дистрибуцией, сами себя пиарят, сами себя продают в онлайне.

Сергей Медведев: Вот еще один из форматов новой экономики, и все это ради блага потребителей. Так что летайте больше, летайте чаще, летайте дешевле! Видимо, это и есть то будущее, от которого мы испытываем футурошок.