The end of the populist

About the prototypes of the novel "The whole royal army"

Archival project "Radio Liberty this week 20 years ago." The most interesting and significant from the air of Radio Freedom of twenty years ago. Incomplete story.

The tragic end of the populist. They say: John Rodriga is a historian from the University of Louisian, John Bibi is a professor at the University of Wisconsin, Lamar Harring is a professor at Cornelskiy University. For the first time on December 5, 1996.

Marina Efimova : Roman Robert Penn Warren "The whole royal army" turned 50 years old. It was published in the fall of 1946 and one of the first reviews appeared in the newspaper The Christian Science Monitor. It said: “As far as the novel reflects the recent political life of America, the reader must decide for himself for himself. However, we note that if his author, creating the image of the hero of Roman Willy Stark,, nicknamed the owner, had in mind the Louisian politician of Hugh Long, he drew him insufficiently black paint. But, in any case, it is clear that the fate of a person who has succumbed to a person who has succumbed to power, terrible. "

“ At the column, I saw Adam Stanton. He was all wet, and I still managed to surprise why he did not leave the car on the parking lot at the Capitol. The owner turned off his journey and took a few steps to Adam.“ Good evening, doctor, ”he said, holding out his hand. For some moment, Adam stood motionless, as if he had done his hand and then he extended it and when he had been extended and when he had done it and when he had done it. This was relieved to take a breath and thought: thank God, he calmed down, I saw that he was holding in his hand, and at that moment when my eyes were recognized as the brain and nerves managed to penetrate its meaning, I saw how the muzzle spit on a pale orange flame.

Marina Efimova : This is how the story of the hero of the novel “The whole Royal army” and his prototype - a senator from Louisian Hugh Long, who became Louisian legend, Louisian scarecrow, ends. The future top of the fate of Hugh Long came from a farm family, like Willy Stark, the hero of the novel "The whole royal army."

Announcer : “We sat in the Slade’s bar in the back room. Alex brought a friend with him. It was a master, only he was not a master. That is, from the point of view of metaphysical, he was of course, but how could I know? Fate enters the door of eighty meter, with wide chests, with short -fingered legs, in a jerk in a jacket for seven fifty, and in a jacket, and in a jacket. An old felt hat with flows sweat on the tape. "

Marina Efimova : In a word, a farm guy who has studied with copper money for one year at the Faculty of Law of the University of Oklahhom and undertook to protect farmers and workers against oil corporations. This is Willy Stark and his prototype Hughi Long. Both mastered jurisprudence only to break into politics. And in the scene of the first appearance of the hero in the novel, the author already shows us some features of this future politician, which reveal the riddle of his success.

Announcer : "Slade, the owner of the establishment, came out of the front room of the bar, and asked:
- Beer?
“At all,” said Kroshka Duffy, making a smooth movement of a hand decorated with a diamond ring.
“Thank you very much, I don’t need to,” said Willy.
“Are you afraid to fuck?” Daffi asked sarcastically.
- No. But thanks, don't.
“Maybe the teacher did not tell him,” Alex suggested, referring to Willy's wife.
“Lucy does not approve of alcohol,” Willy said quietly, “that's right.”
“She doesn’t know,” muttered Duffy and repeated, “at everyone!”
“I don’t need to, thanks - Willy said with the previous intonation.”
“Yes, give him a beer,” said Alex Slade.
Slade looked at Alex, at Duffy, at Willy, then, without much ardor, having waved a towel on the fly, he noticed:
- I sell beer if anyone wants it. I don't force me to drink.
Maybe at that moment Fortune turned to him. After the cancellation of the dry law, when the postmen were brought to the municipality of the municipality of petitions for licenses for the sale of alcohol, Slade received it first. The owner did not forget anything like an elephant in a circus, who always remembers the one who threw him nuts, and the one who poured tobacco into the trunk. "

Marina Efimova : A historian from Louisian University John Rodriga says.

John Rodriga : The personal qualities of Hugh Long - the ability to use various interests, the talent of manipulating people, political flair, energy and mind - played a decisive role in his amazing career and helped create a completely unique political machine corresponding to his ideas of management. But let's not forget that at first these ideas were quite noble-to improve the well-being of ordinary workers and glorify Louisiana. These were ideas that Louisiana did not know for decades. Before Hugh Long Louisiana was always ruled by a certain oligarchy of new-elite New Orleans politicians representing a large business. The oligarchy, which fundamentally did not deal with social needs and was concentrated only on its own interests. As for the character, Hugh Long was an incendiary person. It is enough to see the newsreels of those times to understand this. He spoke by parables, drawing them mainly from the Bible and rethinking in his own way. Long knew the Bible very well and spoke the language that his voters understood, people are semi -literate, but deeply religious, mainly.

Marina Efimova : Here is an example of Willy Stark's speech from the film "The All Royal A army" of 1949, which received an Oscars:

Announcer : “Here I have been written about what the state needs. But it’s not for me to explain what the state needs. You are the staff, you yourself know what you need. You look at your pants. Is there no patch on your knees? Look at your crop. Is it not rotten by the fact that there are no roads and you can’t take it at the market? Looks at your children. Due to the fact that they have no school? Listen, hunger strikes, yes, hunger strikes, the same as me, people in the cadillacs will not give us anything.

Listen, hunger strikes, yes, holly, the same as I am, people in the cadillacs will not give us anything

Time has come! The truth should be said! And I will tell her to the whole state, even if I have to ride it on a stolen mule. And not a single person will shut up my mouth, for I saw the light. "

Marina Efimova : The common opinion among historians is that Hugh Long was a demagogue, who demonstrated the classical techniques of populists, namely: to use in the election struggle the ideas popular among the people, to promise three boxes. Dr. Rodrig, did Hugh Long fulfill his promises? What did he do for ordinary Louisians?

Cover of the book "All Royal Army"

John Rodriga : He did a lot. Having increased the full -time income tax, which, however, suffered large firms, including the Standard Oil, which became its enemy, he built a network of roads and bridges, under Long, the first high -speed highway, highway, were built in America. This immediately raised the staff to another level. His other merit was the creation of a network of public schools in the state. In addition, children were issued free textbooks, not only in public, but also in Catholic schools, which we have a lot. Before Long, literacy in Louisiana was one of the lowest in the USA, even among the white population. And these are only a few examples of what he did. Moreover, everything that he did should be of the highest class. He built the largest closed pool in the country, gathered the largest brass band, he transformed Louisiana’s small provincial university into a first -class school with an international reputation. He adored football, so he hired a good coach, but was constantly unhappy with him, because he could not bring the team to the first prize place.

Marina Efimova : Was he a real American?

John Rodriga : A real Louisian.

Marina Efimova : So, I believe, Hugh Long was popular in Louisian?

John Rodrig : Incredibly popular! He was adored by simple poor Louisians. But the elite hated him. Hugh Long pushed away from the power of almost all rich and influential people - planters, large businessmen, highly paid professionals - in a word, those who ruled Louisiana from generation to generation. In general, he was the first politician in Louisian to come out of the bottom, and not only the poor, but also the middle class, for the time being, supported him.

Marina Efimova : What scared them away?

John Rodrig : both Willy Stark in the novel "The whole royal army" and his prototype Hugh Long fell ill with an infectious disease of politicians - obsession with power. Even his closest employees, he began to scare away with his rude egocentrism. But he could not but be a nail of the program. The uniqueness of Hugh Long in American politics lies in the fact that in the 30s he, as a governor, established an almost dictatorial regime in one of the American states, in Louisiana, and even when he became a senator, he kept his state all the time, suppressing any political opposition.

Marina Efimova : How could this happen in the USA?

John Rodriga : Due to the strong French and Spanish influence, the role and power of the governor in Louisian is immeasurably more than in other states. Louisiana has always been a strange state, as they say, in the family not without a freak.

Marina Efimova : When Hughi Long married Macaconell’s rose, he told her: “I will first become the governor of Louisiana, then a senator, and then the president of the United States.” It was in 1913 and Hugh Long was then a regular treasurer.

When Hughi Long married Macaconell’s rose, he told her: “I will first become the governor of Louisiana, then the senator, and then the president of the United States”

He became the governor in 1928 and the senator in 1934. In 1936, Long intended to put his candidacy for presidents, but in the fall of 1935 he was shot by the head of the full -time Capitol, the doctor Karl Weis, the son -in -law of the local judge, whom Hugh Long tried to blackmail.

Announcer :
“And if you delve into the judge of Irwin?” The owner asked thoughtfully.
- Will you really rivet the judge? - I could not stand it.
“Boy,” said the owner, “I ever asked you to build on someone in vain?”
- No.
- Why? Because there is no need. Everyone in the past has some kind of dead pussy.
- The judge may not have.
- It cannot. And you will find her.

And I found. A cat already half -rotten from time to time with a shabby skin. No wonder I had fives on history. "

Hugh Long with his family

Marina Efimova : So described in the novel a fatal episode, who decided the fate of almost all his heroes. Tell me, Dr. Rodrig, was it real that Hugh Long in the late 30s would become president of the United States?

John Rodriga : When the Americans say “Hughi Long”, they mean Louisian, they do not mean the United States, although Long himself already thought on a national scale in the last years of his life and, thinking about the prospects of presidency, he began to form the opposition Franklin Roosevelt and his new course. And the program of Hugh Long himself under the motto “Controversy of our wealth” was supported by millions of Americans in 1934-35. Roosevelt did not consider Hugh Long a serious opponent, but he understood his potential power. And many believe that the most radical measures of Roosevelt, for example, the introduction of a detailed system of state social security, were partially undertaken in order to disarm Hugh Long, adapting his platform.

Marina Efimova : Well, in the current Louisiana he is remembered as “Hood Guy” or as “Bad Guy”?

John Rodrig : This question is always asked. But the fact is that even now the Louisians adhere to extreme opinions, as they are generally characteristic of. Some hold him for the saint, others - almost for the fascist. Although, in general, in the history of Louisiana Hughi Long remained the creator and defender of the powerless. Yes, in general, the author of the biography of Hugh Long Williams, and Penn Warren in the novel "The All royal army" relate to Hugh Long with sympathy, like ordinary Louisians.

... Many intellectuals, historians and politicians believe that he could become a disaster for Louisiana, because the corruption that he legalized in the state for a long time after Hugh Long himself died

And many intellectuals, historians and politicians believe that he could become a disaster for Louisiana, because the corruption that he legitimized in the state for a long time after Hugh Long himself died. Hugh Earl’s brother, also a fairly bright figure, was the Louisian governor in the 1940s and 1950s, and even the son of Hugh, Russell inherited power and became a senator from Louisiana for many years. In general, the political machine created by Hugh Long lasted until the beginning of the 1960s.

Marina Efimova : Is it possible now the appearance on America’s political stage such as Hugh Long? About this - Professor of the University of Wisconsin John Bibi.

John Bibi : I don't think. Long was a populist, a demagogue that appeared at a time when the United States, especially the southern states, experienced economic depression. The population was irritated and required assistance from the government. It was in those years that Franklin Roosevelt’s social programs were laid, many of which are still valid, and which now congress and the White House are trying, if not canceled, then modernize. The time of such as Long has gone, now most Americans adhere to moderate views, and in politics support the centrists.

Marina Efimova : Can a person from nowhere from the lower classes at all?

John Bibi : No, hardly. Unless, by Ross, a feather, although I in no case can compare it with Hugh Long. The pen appeared on the political sky, having no political past, but his base was his wealth.

Marina Efimova : What can you say about the recently chosen Congress from Long Island, nurses Caroline McCarthy? She was not a politician, she just passionately fought for a ban on personal weapons after her husband was killed, and her son was wounded by an armed bandit who opened fire in the train carriage.

John Bibi : This unexpected and dramatic appearance is associated with the tragedy Caroline McCarthy, her case is a rare exception, she, I think, will not take a noticeable situation among 435 members of the House of Representatives of the United States.

Marina Efimova : Hugh Long died in the lobby of the Capitol, in the capital of Louisiana, the city of Baton-Rozh on September 8, 1935.

John Bibi : The story of his murder is quite dark, and there are conflicting versions. He was killed by a young doctor, whose father was also a doctor, and one of the most famous in the Baton-ruble, and the father-in-law was a judge. And Hughi Long was about to supplant this judge from the office, which was compromising the facts of the biography, which was not indifferent to him, namely, that Negro blood flows in it. This meant the end of the career not only for the judge himself, but also for his son-in-law, because nothing could be said worse about a white man in Louisiana of the 1920s and 1930s than that Negro blood flowing in his veins. So it could be a political murder and personal revenge.

Hugh Long with his supporters

Marina Efimova : Hugh Long is the same inalienable affiliation of Louisian, like Spanish moss, which hangs from trees on old plantations, or as a song "when the saints march", which we chose for our transmission. Another thing is Willy Stark, the hero of the novel "The whole royal army." He became an international celebrity. The novel, which received the Pulitzer Prize in 1947, was translated into all languages of the world. In Russia, he appeared and shocked my generation in the late 60s in the magnificent translation of Victor Golyshev. What made the novel so famous? About this - Professor of the University of Kornelsky Lamar Harring.

Lamar Harring : Firstly, the book is remarkably written-brightly, with an abundance of exact details, style, recreating the entire life of the huge area of the American South, Louisiana. The novel is historical, political and, at the same time, philosophical. He rethinks an understanding of what it means to live with dignity. And at the same time, according to his plot model, this is a detective, which makes the novel unusually entertaining. The hero is trying to unravel the mysterious ball to find his real father, but the approach to the truth turns into disappointment, the loss of illusions for him. In many ways, the “whole royal army” is the history of the loss of innocence, the natural perception of life, and in this sense, the novel seems to me by a national myth showing what is happening with democratic ideals in a small provincial town, when the demagogues come to power.

... ideologists, especially with a strong, magnetic will, sooner or later attract smart, skeptical, educated people to their own. And for the latter, it often ends with a vital collapse

Honestly, I was always struck in this book that this political demagogue, Willy Stark, ultimately manage to attract Jack Berden's intellectual and intellectual. Their relationship is a model that has repeatedly encountered in the literature: in the works of Faulkner, in the "mobile of Dick" Melville, partly even in the Great Gatsby Fitzgerald. In general, ideologists, especially with a strong, magnetic will, sooner or later attract smart, skeptical, educated people to their own. Moreover, for the latter, it often ends with a vital collapse. Here are all these elements combined, I think, and led to the popularity of Warren’s novel around the world.

Марина Ефимова : Говоря об интеллигентах, находящих нравственное оправдание и словесное оформление идеям политиков и идеологов, профессор Хэрринг упомянул, естественно, журналиста Джека Бердена, от лица которого ведется повествование в романе "Вся королевская рать". По сути дела, именно Джек является главным героем романа, потому что из всей "королевской рати" его одного читатель любит. Трудно сказать, в какой мере его прототипом является сам автор, американский поэт и писатель Роберт Пенн Уоррен. Но именно устами Бердена выражается сначала оправдание идеологии Вилли Старка, проводившего свои преобразования с применением и подкупа, и шантажа, а потом отрезвление от этой идеологии. Вот, например, как формулирует Джек Берден так называемую "Теорию исторических издержек".

Диктор : "Теория моральной нейтральности истории, можете назвать ее и так. Исторический процесс как таковой не бывает ни нравственным, ни безнравственным. Безнравственный фактор может привести к нравственному результату, нравственный фактор может привести к безнравственному результату. Может быть, только в обмен на душу человек получает власть творить добро".

Марина Ефимова : Но после того, как на глазах у Джека Бердена один его друг убил другого, и сам он послужил причиной гибели своего отца, Джек понял, что перед своей совестью он не сможет оправдаться никакими теориями, что история слепа, а человек - нет. Кстати, автор романа довольно принципиально изменил историю убийства Хозяина. Он сделал убийцу, доктора Адама Стентона, идеалистом, для которого Старк является разрушителем главного закона человеческого общежития – закона порядочности.

Хьюи Лонг во время парада в Луизиане

Ламар Хэрринг : Роберт Пенн Уоррен описал феномен Хьюи Лонга лучше, чем это делали историки, потому что высветил самую суть вечной проблемы: можно ли сделать немножко плохого, чтобы достичь очень хорошего? Или, говоря классической формулой, оправдывает ли цель средства ее достижения? Проблема, с которой неминуемо сталкивается каждый политик.

Марина Ефимова : Как в Америке борются с заразной болезнью политиков – одержимостью властью?

Ламар Хэрринг : Говорят, власть развращает, а абсолютная власть развращает абсолютно. Хьюи Лонг – пример необузданного властолюбия, но американцы не позволяют власти слишком концентрироваться в одних руках. Сила американской политической системы как раз и состоит в децентрализации власти.

...американцы не позволяют власти слишком концентрироваться в одних руках. Сила американской политической системы как раз и состоит в децентрализации власти

Кроме того, мы всегда предпочитаем профессионалов, они не так легко заражаются властолюбием, потому что хорошо знают, чем это кончается.

Марина Ефимова : Остается только напомнить, что ни Хьюи Лонг в 1930-х, ни Джозеф Маккарти в 1950-х, ни Росс Перо в 1980-х и 90-х не стали и не могли стать президентами США. Существование подобных политиков для Америки - это как прививка против диктаторства, болезни, которой переболела Европа.