Translated material
What to do with immigrants
Anti -immigration measures in the United States launched a discussion on migrants and mechanisms of democracy on the network
The decree of Donald Trump, limiting the entrance to the country for immigrants from several Muslim countries, including owners of current visas, caused a wave of indignation in the United States . Many indignant posts appeared on this subject in Russian -speaking social networks. Many carried out historical parallels with how migrants took migrants before the Second World War or after it.
I understand correctly that with one decree, the American president can prohibit the entry into the country with Green Cards owners and other visas from a particular country? Is this the first case in history or has this happened many times already? I only remember the story when, during the Second World War, all Americans of Japanese origin were moved to camps.
Yesterday was the day of memory of the Holocaust. And Trump's decree on migrants. One of the most terrible stories told in the Museum of Yad Vashem is the story of the Saint Louis ship. Almost a thousand Jewish refugees from Germany in 1939 sailed to America, hoping to escape. They were not accepted by Cuba and the United States. They returned back (how they sailed back, it’s scary to even try to imagine) and almost everyone died.
Two years ago, it could not have occurred to me in the poison of Vasheme that this could literally repeat it. To America! Like this.
The worst thing is that here he is the 20th century ended - museums, books, cinema, "Theology after Auschwitz." And what? Packed in boxes with the inscriptions "Jews", "past" and that’s all. Bronze, history textbooks, excursions. And America does not let. Refugees. Who did not come out of the mug.
The decree was criticized for discrimination by origin and religion.
Trump begins: ... a discriminatory ban on entering the country to immigrants from Muslim countries except refugees who are oppressed due to the fact that they are Christians. People are planted from airplanes, detained at airports. Some kind of madness.
That is, Islam and Islamic terrorism in the United States become, if not synonyms, then close concepts. I wonder who considers the consequences there? Read the calculations.
Purely picture for the context of what is happening. I had a client - a citizen of a Muslim country from the now banned. Civil aviation pilot flying on international flights and legal resident of the United States. You can imagine what checks the Arab with a pilot license took place before Grinkard was given to him. And so he returns from the flight to his wife, which is completely white American from Ohio, and small children, who, by the way, study at a private Catholic school - but they are not released in the arrival zone and offer to clean up the historical homeland, where he was not about 15 years old. His professionalism has just been entrusted to dozens of American citizens. And he was not even that he flew to the country where ISIS could hypothetically recruit him, the man simply returned from work.
For those who want to see what the story of the decree of Trump on the ban on the entry of the US citizens from the seven Islamic countries looks close to the execution of the decree of Trump, I strongly advise you to follow this girl: this girl:
https://linguistics.stonybrook.edu/students/vahideh.rasekhi
Vakhida ranges - applicant for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy (in the sense, PhD, not to be confused with the Russian doctoral degree), a linguist, graduate student of the University of Stony Brook, Iranian citizen. Last year, she was elected head of the Association of graduate students of this rather famous and prestigious university, one of the four working under the University Center for New York ( http://www.sbgso.org/index.php/about-us/exective-committee ).
Yesterday she was among those who were blocked in
The transit zone of the JFK airport, and to whom they tried to refuse the entrance, in accordance with the just emerging decree.
Many noted that the recent attacks were committed at all from those countries that are listed in the decree, and expressed fears that measures could lead to the radicalization of the Muslim population.
I am not a citizen of neither the United States nor the countries that have been banned. But at the same time, I was very struck by the story with a ban on the entry of refugees and citizens of a number of Muslim states. Maybe because once I myself went all the way of immigration, I know all this from the inside, talked with refugees from many countries of the world (even shared a room with the Iraqi at one time) and it is very easy for me to put myself in the place of those whose life was destroyed yesterday. It is especially amazing that the ban has affected the owners of current visas, refugee statuses and residence species (Green Cards). A simple situation: a man lives in the United States and went abroad for a while - on business, or on vacation, or simply visit friends or relatives. And he can no longer return home. Although in the USA he has a house, and family and work, and indeed his whole life. And where to go, despite the fact that many of them cannot return to the country of origin. The cruelty in relation to thousands of people is striking, but some kind of transcendental meaninglessness of this cruelty. Those. Natives of Muslim countries, which are currently at the moment, have not yet suffered, but those who at least just went to the neighboring Mexican city can no longer return. Anyway, the entire list of countries from where the entry is prohibited has nothing to do with the attacks of recent years in the USA and Europe:
Boston marathon - natives of Chechnya, i.e. Russia
San Bernardino is a native of the United States and a native of Pakistan
Orlando is a native of the USA (parents from Afghanistan)
Nice - Tunisia
Berlin is Tunisia
I did not like the policy of Obama, who, in my opinion, was completely insufficiently opposed by radical Islamism, and in many ways indulged in him. But I'm not sure that in Yemen of the preachers of this ideology there will be half of the amount that were born and grew up in the UK. It is necessary to fight with bandits, and not with brunettes (C).
In the Muslim community, such actions will cause extreme rejection even among those who were good or neutral about the United States. In this sense, a significant part of the American Soft Power in this part of the world with one stroke of the pen is simply thrown into the trash. ISIS has now stopped broadcasting all his propaganda and only frantically tweaks references to Trump’s decrees and media reports about their consequences - they don’t need anything else, they received the best gift from Orange, which they could not even dream of
Bloggers shared a photo of celebrities who came to rallies - including Sergey Brin, the son of emigrants from the USSR.
However, many of the former compatriots supported prohibitive measures - and commentators are trying to figure out why.
As I thought, Russian emigrants living in the United States met the news with a bang that they would not let any other emigrants. In the Russian -speaking twitter glee.
The statements of emigrants (i.e., any people living in the place of birth) who approve of certain anti -emigrant measures cause me - how to say? - Well, probably a sigh: yes, many people are as stupid as it seemed.
Those our emigrants who rejoice in Trump's decision do not understand that they will get to them
I watch CNN, where they show a rally at New York Airport and Twitter Justin Trudeau ('All refugees, Velkom) and I don’t know whether to cry or laugh. I think about a familiar Colombian (Polit. Refugees in Paris), whose relatives have long emigrated to the USA and ... voted for Trump. There are, by the way, among the supporters of Le Pen, there are a lot of “non -stitches” who hope for the same - “restriction of competition”)) Perhaps, if these supporters of “restrictions on competition” in France win, it will be necessary to knock on Twitter to Mr. Trudo: “Can you?”
After all, this spirit of faith in man remained in America: “The more we, the more we can,” there are monuments to various immigrants that lifted the country. Nowhere else was there and there was no such (and for some reason the country was the most successful in the world), MB only in Canada. And this Toptygin comes, a billionaire-deelopper, who knew how to be friends with the mafia who has no principles in business, hiding his income, and becomes a defender of "simple workers" from the "establishment". A liar with a nuclear bomb. MB really believed him mainly by the Russian Colombians?! Otherwise, how to explain this?!
The Decree of the US President and many Russian patriots support. The Moscow Radio Says Moscow reports that the decree was praised by the deputy Vitaliy Milonov :
Of course, this is a sound decision of the new president. Those who come not to work, but to live at the expense of those who work, they are not desirable. In addition, many of those who arrive are adherents of all kinds of semi -secretary radical organizations. Mr. Trump shows that he knows how to act in the interests of his country. And this, of course, deserves respect
The well -known TV presenter Dmitry Kiselev also acted in defense of the decree.
The next story "Vesti of the week" is entitled: "The USA is trying to expose the new president to the enemy of Islam." The slanderers were completely brutalized. #Twepers
It looks strange, notes Alexei Kovalev .
But the employees of state news agencies and the Lent.ru and others who rushed to them, who sharply ran to defend Trump from evil American liberals, retell without any comments on his statement that 3 million illegal migrants voted against him - why are they doing this? I understand Putin to praise, there is at least some career and pragmatic reason in this, but what kind of bonuses are they waiting for from Trump?
Trump and many commentators from the "anti -democratic" camp are disinterestedly supported.
American leftists and generally the progressive public are seriously outraged that Trump signed a decree on the restriction of the entry for Muslims on the Muslim Day. Like, a bastard specially began to infringe on the minority on such a day, and this all begins!
The fact that Iran who fell into stop-registers regularly threatens to destroy Israel, and other countries (for example, Syria) with Israel regularly fought, the progressive public does not bother. Surprisingly "crazy" people, of course. Moreover, if in the USA they now howl from powerlessness before "American fascism", then they are now rule with us. Fight, magical, with "Russian fascism" in all ways, from criminal persecution and subsidies of the Sharia Republic to the massive fees of "hardworking Iranians."
Trump's initiative has not only a practical, but also a philosophical aspect. After all, the demolition of “tolerance” led to the fact that society decided: Christians must be maintained less, and more those who had not previously were tolerant. A whole system of privileged “minorities” arose, in which homosexuals and transvestites managed to get along in the same lists with preachers of the most crazy fanaticism. The police and special services actually demanded to turn a blind eye to the possible connection of a religious and political worldview with a tendency to terror.
Trump refuses precisely this artificial blindness. He offers hatred of hatred and love of love - priority for those who dared not to renounce the faith that was persecuted from the beginning of their history, which created Russia, Europe, and the USA. Trump proposes to protect his own, and to judge strangers with the analysis. On their business.
I look at crazy, screaming crowds of protesters at American airports - there is no fascism! Down with Trump! Welcome, Yemen and Somalia! - And I think that this is the real suicide of the current young West.
An attempt to suicide, in any case, - and God grant that the "fascists" be able to stop this matter. <...>
Does the cursing Trump have backward parents who voted incorrectly, for which they deserve contempt, unlike a sweet migrant from Somali?
Oh, something tells me that there are such parents.
So the levoliberal movement is not about the New Testament.
She is about alien.
Alienation is when a person is only worthy of sympathy and support, if he is incomprehensible and strange, if he is far away, if in this mysterious distant world he is romantically suffering from Bulgakov’s starving children, like Grenada in Soviet poems. <...>
What if you try to love more than only distant ones?
Dilute him to the neighbors - a little bit.
There is a known type of exalted young man who "searches for God" somewhere in India.
In the church, it is not interesting to seek God around the corner.
Everything is so familiar there, there is a thick pop, old women grumbling, fascism, Putin, Trump.
Is it India.
Ale, dear.
God is not somewhere on the other end of the world.
He is here.
He is with you all the time ..
Many patriots attacked the singer Rihanna for an insulting statement of Trump.
Rihanna attacked Trump. If anyone did not know, she is a little citizen of Barbados. Migrants are not accepted on her taxes.
- Anatoly Shariy (@anatoliisharii) January 29, 2017
All publicly swearing and defiantly exposed, such as Madonna and Riana, call Trump "immoral". It would be better to look in the mirror.
- Alexey Pushkov (@alexey_pushkov) January 29, 2017
Member of the Federation Council Pushkov.
The conscience of Russian music Joseph Prigozhin.
Life observer Igor Maltsev.
And just the extraordinary mind Egor Kholmogorov.
They consider their moral duty to protect the US president from singer Rihanna.
YOU CAN Stand Under My Umbrella, You Can Stand Under My Umbrella ...
And soon there will be stickers on a car in Russia "Rihanna Midmo"?
- Thoughts of the perzient (@vvp2_0) January 29, 2017
However, the new anti -immigration measures were close to individual commentators from the liberal camp.
With all due respect to the right of the supporters of ISIS and the guards of the Islamic Revolution, they freely move around the world, citizens of developed countries also have some rights. For example, the right to protect against an international terrorist threat. When immigration services allow the entry into the United States or the countries of the European Union of suicide bombers, this right is violated. In recent months, we have seen enough examples to make sure: entry, visa and immigration procedures in many Western countries are imperfect, and the question of introducing more stringent passport control procedures is not a whim of racists, xenophobes or populists there. Millions of the French, reviewing their attitude to migrants and open -door policies, were not read by Trump's speeches, and not even my posts about Syria, but the last news from Paris, Nice, Toulouse, Ruen.
It is possible, of course, for the sake of political correctness, to pretend that the terrorist infrastructure of Islamists in the West countries is in no way connected with the gaps in immigration policy, and that all terrorists in the world are just loners who accidentally went the roof, like Anders Brevik. But the facts indicate another. Brayvik, Unabber, McVe are really loners, but the account of people associated with the Syrian-Iraqi and Palestinian terrorist underground in the West countries go to many thousands. Freedom of movement between Syria and Europe is an important factor that contributes to the current level of a terrorist threat to Parisians, Brussels, Londoners. The fact that in French terrorist attacks people who appeared in the special lists of local special services are periodically involved is a sure sign that the number of potentially dangerous Islamists has already exceeded the possibilities of power structures not only in identification, but even to track those who are already registered ...
In parallel, another passport-visa scandal is flared around immigrants from the Arab countries who managed to acquire British citizenship-and now they also do not want to let them into America, despite the passports of the United Kingdom. In this regard, I recall an explosion in the Tel Aviv Bar Mike's Place, next to the US Embassy. The terrorist attack was committed by Asif Muhammad Hanif from the London suburbs Haunlow and Omar Han Sharif from Derby. They both entered Israel from Jordan, precisely on British passports. If they tried to enter the Syrian, they would simply not be allowed. Of course, at the same time their right to freedom of movement would be violated. But this, it seems to me, is a reasonable price for the life and health of people who were on that April night on Tel Avivskaya Embankment.
The theme of migration policy today is one of the most important and painful, including for Russians, and opinions about what it should be is infinitely diverse.
Of course, I can’t like all this epic with migration laws. In any case, the boundaries should be open, acquisitions from this in any case are more than problems.
Modern migration policy is not open boundaries, as many think. And globalization is not open boundaries. No one generally offers to ban migration at all, because it is impossible.
But in migration policy there are two approaches. The first - the migrants themselves choose where to go and where to sit on benefits and watch the videos of their brothers in faith on the Internet. The second - the country chooses from those who wish to come migrants of those that she needs. Does the country have such a right? Of course ... because migrants are a load on the taxpayer. Roughly speaking, they must invest in migrants those investments that will then pay off.
To accept or not accept the inhabitants of certain countries is a reasonable migration policy. It is reasonably a little more welcoming to accept the countries of foreigners of their nationality, their faith, their beliefs. Разумно больше искать среди иммигрантов образованных и полезных, чем диких и разрушающих культуру твоей страны. Разумно, наконец, определять количество тех, кого потянет принять экономика страны.
Но я не верю, что Трамп способен проводить разумную политику в области миграции. Думаю, он как слон в посудной лавке, поссорит США со многими странами, народами и религиями. Для того, чтобы проводить разумную политику, нужен кто-то другой - не Трамп.
Отдельные комментаторы считают, что более жесткие ограничения на въезд не помешали бы и России.
А можно как-то договориться Путину и Трампу, чтобы антимиграционные указы последнего применялись еще и в России. Ну типа в рамках двустороннего политического соглашения между двумя странами что ли?
Просто реально завидую вот США. Бьешься в России за более жесткую миграционную политику, а в США приходит такой президент, который начинает все это выполнять.
И ведь еще интересно посмотреть, как наши доморощенные олбрайт будут грозиться принять ислам в знак протеста.
Да, в Европе на выборах в этом году именно миграция будет ключевой темой. Выиграет тот, кто предложит жесткие реалистичные меры.
Константин Эггерт , напротив, считает, что подобные меры России ни к чему:
Выскажу довольно парадоксальное мнение: на фоне дискуссии об иммиграционной политике Трампа, в России, как ни странно, интеграция иммигрантов идёт, на самом деле, относительно неплохо. Прежде всего потому, что в России нет никаких возможностей иммигрировать и не работать. Невозможно сесть на социальное пособие и смотреть исламистские видео в Ютьюбе в бесплатном муниципальном жилье. Приходится учить русский и адаптироваться. Обратите внимание, как резко спали антимигрантские настроения в больших городах. Мне кажется, люди постепенно привыкают к новым соседям. То есть нерегулируемая миграция оказалась саморегулируемой. Многие, в том числе, и я, понимают, что потенциально выходцы из Центральной Азии - электорат Путина. It's sad. Но, как заметил мне один недавно приехавший узбек, который на родине был капитаном милиции, "по сравнению с Каримовым, у вас тут такая свобода, что дух захватывает". Что правда. Перспективно мыслящие оппозиционные политики должны обратить внимание на миллионы новых россиян, как на важную часть электората. #Трамп #миграция
Педантичные блогеры погрузились в исходные документы, чтобы выяснить, насколько справедлива критика в отношении указа Трампа, и выяснили, что список стран, для выходцев из которых был ограничен въезд, происходит из другого, более раннего документа, подписанного еще Бараком Обамой.
Для начала, собственно текст указа .
В этом тексте, разумеется, нет слова “мусульмане”, что неудивительно. Удивительно (особенно для тех, кто читает только вторичный продукт) другое - в нём нет слов “Иран”, “Ирак”, “Йемен”, “Ливия”, “Сомали”. Слово “Сирия” там есть, но в другой части документа (пока меня интересует та часть, которая об ограничении вьезда).
А откуда же список стран? А вот откуда - в 2015 году Конгресс принял , а неизвестно какой президент подписал закон , в числе прочего ограничивающий участие людей, посетивших некоторый список стран, в программе Visa Waiver, и описыващий список стран "повышенного риска". На этот список - вернее, на его интерпретацию DHS, включающую именно эти 7 стран (как обычно, тот закон написан так, что его можно толковать широко - “any other country or area of concern”, а конкретное воплощение определяют подзаконные акты и действия исполнительной власти) - и ссылается приказ Трампа.
Из этого мы учим, что все, кто нам рассказывает, что Трамп специально отобрал эти страны под свой бизнес и прочую чушь - либо считают, что Трамп у нас президент уже как минимум с 2015, либо врут. <...>
В целом, во временной приостановке выдачи виз не было бы ничего особенного - Обама сделал то же самое в 2011 с визами из Ирака в на 6 месяцев связи с обнаружением в Кентакки террористов Аль-Каеды, проникших в страну под видом беженцев. Пострадали даже совершенно ни в чём не повинные иракцы, сотрудничавшие с американцами (указ Трампа позволяет делать исключения в таких случаях, не уверен, почему с указом Обамы этого не произошло).
Однако включение в список держателей уже выданных виз и даже держателей гринкартов заходит слишком далеко, это серьёзная ошибка и я надеюсь, что Трамп её исправит как можно скорее.
Припоминают Бараку Обаме не только ограничения 2011 года, но и один из последних сюрпризов его администрации – отмену распоряжения, позволявшего кубинцам, которым удалось нелегально добраться до территории США, автоматически получать американский вид на жительство.
Я очень рад, что американцы сейчас протестуют против одного из первых указов Трампа. Но мне очень жаль, что они не протестуют против одного из последних указов Обамы - а он ведь по сути те же яйца, вид сбоку.
Это я не о том, что "вот вы тут Трампа ругаете, а ваш Обама...". Правильно ругаете. Это я о том, что если бы люди научились не прощать "своим" политикам того, что они уже не прощают "чужим", мир мог бы стать гораздо лучше.
Многие российские комментаторы зачарованно наблюдают за американской демократией в действии и восхищаются судьей, приостановившей действие указа .
Знаете, что мне теперь интереснее всего про Америку? Как она ответит на вызов... Другими словами, все эти годы и десятилетия вытачивания процедур и создания институтов обеспечили народ США надежным инструментарием для стабилизации системы? Мы же это в кино про пришельцев сто раз видели... Сейчас по всей Америки мигают красные лампы и механический голос талдычит без передышки - "Нарушение внешнего контура! Нарушение внешнего контура!"
Короче, смотрим, сможет ли Сигурни Уивер справиться с Чужим? А иначе, зачем ее система воспитывала, учила?
ТУПАЯ ПЕНДОСКА ТЫ ЖЕ ТЕПЕРЬ КВАРТИРУ НЕ ПОЛУЧИШЬ — так российские судьи прокомментировали решение американского суда запретить указ Трампа
— Сталингулаг (@StalinGulag) 29 января 2017 г.
НКО через суд остановило действие указа президента.
Только вот на днях объяснял кому-то, что моя мысль о том, что Трамп сделает США более демократичной относится не только к его взаимодействию с его сторонниками, но и с тем, что он заставит противников своей политики принять участие в политике "снизу" и сделает гражданское участие более значимым.
Президент подписывает абсурдный указ.
Тысячи граждан мгновенно (не уведомляя за 10-15 дней!) выходят на митинги (в том числе на объектах критической инфраструктуры!).
Гражданские НКО и сотни юристов-волонтеров (которым никто не говорит, что они работают за печеньки Госдепа) мгновенно готовят судебные иски в защиту прав людей, затронутых указом президента.
Суды моментально (а не через пять дней) принимают эти иски и судья моментально (а не через месяц) выносит решение, приостанавливающее действие указа президента до разбирательства относительно его законности.
Чиновники, только что действовавшие в строгом соответствии с указом, начинают действовать в соответствии с решением суда.
Что я чувствую в связи с этой историей (о которой, наверняка, снимут много красивых фильмов)?
Зависть чувствую, что уж там.
Жгучую зависть.
Ну и еще больше желания добиться того же: независимого суда, разделения властей, сильных НКО и, главное, неравнодушных граждан.
В США демократия работает.
Это не значит, что в США все и всегда принимают правильные решения. Это значит, что ни один человек не может навязать любое решение всей стране от имени "большинства".
Вот и будем с большим интересом наблюдать, как она работает, эта самая демократия в США. Нам когда-нибудь пригодится.
Один из возможных механизмов противодействия президентской политике описывает Павел Демидов на carnegie.ru :
Все это очень похоже на события восьмилетней давности, когда президентом США стал еще не поседевший, молодой Барак Обама. Как и Трамп сегодня, он тогда для многих американцев был воплощением надежды на лучшее. Как сейчас Трамп и республиканцы, в 2008 году Обама с демократами контролировал обе палаты Конгресса – лучшее доказательство массовой поддержки его тогдашней политической революции и курса на перемены. Но уже через месяц после вступления Обамы в должность серьезным ограничением для его президентства стало движение, получившее название Чайная партия.
Менее чем за год Чайная партия сформировала среду, которая серьезно ограничивала свободу действий президента Обамы и стимулировала республиканских политиков занимать непримиримую позицию.
В результате уже через два года после триумфа Обамы республиканцы, сыграв на несоответствии высоких ожиданий от Обамы и тяжелой ситуации в экономике, одержали сокрушительную победу на промежуточных выборах в Конгресс.
Этот сценарий, попортивший демократам немало крови в 2008–2010 годах, сейчас рассматривается многими как отличная возможность блокировать деятельность президента Трампа.
В общем, нельзя не отметить, что деятельность нового президента США пока вытеснила из русскоязычных соцсетей все остальные поводы для обсуждения, в том числе и у "патриотов". Как-то даже обидно за Россию.
"Чётамухохлов" переключается в режим "КактамнашДональд".
Широка страна моя родная, но сама себе не интересна.
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Alya Ponomareva
Social Networks Editor Radio Liberty