Library in the era "Google"

What role does the library play in modern culture?

Sergey Medvedev: Today we will talk about the thing that comes with us from the past is a library. How long have you, my dear listeners, were in the library? How long did you use a paper catalog, took books? Libraries have recently become something like the same archaic institutions as "Russian Post". But at the same time, according to statistics, they are in every way in demand, that is, in Russia there are almost 65 million registered libraries - this is two billion visits per year. Who is all these people and what role does the library play in modern culture, in the modern city space? We are talking about this with Boris Kupriyanov , one of the co -founders of the Falanster store, a well -known book trader and publisher. Recall that Boris for two years was one of the leaders of the Moscow Library Center under the government of the capital. First of all, this is real statistics - 65 million people, that is, each Russian goes to the library once a month?

Boris Kupriyanov: Let this statistics comment on people who write it. Regarding two billion visits - this is cool, I have not heard this figure. I read in the report of the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation that one hundred million books are taken from libraries. If these figures are true, then everything is very good in Russia, because they are about four times more than numbers in America, where many people go to libraries. I think that they are equal to the numbers of bookpoints in all libraries of Europe.

This extradition is somehow very imperceptible, we do not see this. Maybe in electronic form, maybe virtually, but it is impossible to see it in principle. When you come to Sweden and rent an apartment or house there, you will definitely put a guide about the nearest interesting places, and the library will be on the first and second page. But no matter how much I traveled around Russia, I have not seen a link to a local library in any hotel.

In general, the figure "Billion of one hundred million bookweeds" means that every Russian, from a baby to a person who is not able to function, reads immediately from birth to the last minutes of retreat to another world and takes seven books a year in libraries. I ask you to note that this does not apply to the educational libraries that are not included in this list, neither institute, and schoolchildren are not considered, it is said only about people who go to public libraries.

Libraries have recently become something like the same archaic institutions as "Russian Post"

Sergey Medvedev: Obviously, this is another crafty figure. What can be the role of the library in general - in the Hugla, Ozone and Amazon era, when any information, any book is available in a million formats and can be put on your computer screen or home for a day?

Boris Kupriyanov: In countries where there are much less than a billion one hundred million people, for example, in Germany, America, Great Britain, China or Turkey, such a question cannot arise at all. Firstly, professionals constantly think about this, they say, write some books and texts on this topic. Secondly, why do you need a library in the modern world? This is, it would seem, a strange question. Previously, when I was engaged in libraries (thank God, this period ended), I intimidated the librarians that if I hear the statement from them: “Why do you need a library?”, Then sanctions will follow. There were no sanctions, but I believe that a professional does not have the right not to understand why he works.

In China, libraries are built in huge numbers. In India, in Iran, libraries are being built. The meaning of the libraries, their function is clear and understandable. A library is not only a place where you can take a book (books can be taken anywhere) or work, this is something more.

Sergey Medvedev: The space of communication.

Boris Kupriyanov: Not only.

Sergey Medvedev: The book itself is a reason for the presentation, for audiobooks, for its digital option.

In China, libraries are built in huge numbers

Boris Kupriyanov: There is still the main, classic function of the library - the transfer of knowledge. For this, some institutions must exist in the modern world. "Facebook" is, of course, the transfer of knowledge, of course, specific, independent, separately formatted. Oddly enough, the VKontakte network in Russia is more capable of transmitting knowledge than Facebook. Nevertheless, there are some institutions for transmitting information, knowledge, methods of their acquisition, and knowledge methodology.

Everyone knows that Zuckerberg invented Facebook in order to replace their higher school to some extent, and no one is surprising that higher school still exists. Also, the library is the oldest institution that is created to transmit knowledge. This is not only a communication platform, but this function is also.

Sergey Medvedev: Knowledge is the social side of the information.

Boris Kupriyanov: Yes. But knowledge is somewhat wider than specific information. The library has a thousand functions. But in Russia, the library potential is not used even by 30-50%.

Sergey Medvedev: What is this potential? Describe the program with which you once went to the Moscow Library Center.

Boris Kupriyanov: That program rested in Bose, so let others describe the programs.

Sergey Medvedev: A certain perfect image of the library ...

Boris Kupriyanov: We made many mistakes, thank God, that we did not have much shut down. But we immediately realized that the library is some institution that transfers knowledge, allows them to share, live with them, transform them. This is her direct purpose. We saw that in Moscow and in other large cities there is a gigantic need for this - the more the city, the greater the need.

The main, classical function of the library is the transfer of knowledge

There are no local communities in Moscow. The absence of a local community implies the automatic absence of any civil society, any lower democracy. And from the lower democracy, other forms of democracy, urban administrations, autonomy, federations, and so on stem. In our Moscow, at least the local community was destroyed by virtue of many economic, political and other factors.

Sergey Medvedev: Yes, in fact, the whole history of Russia ...

Boris Kupriyanov: Let us recall how pensioners sat in the yards, played dominoes, talked ... We are not talking about self-organization-this is a dream, we are talking about a community, about some kind of communication that takes place inside.

Sergey Medvedev: Can a library be such a communication center of the local community?

Boris Kupriyanov: The library should be such a place. It should now create conditions for the emergence of a local community - not to make a local community (this is impossible), but to create conditions for the possibility of its occurrence. We are now at such a stage of development that we cannot dream of the emergence of any things, we can only build institutions that, perhaps someday, will be needed.

Now the library has a social function, because a huge number of poor people go to it. This is the only free place where you can get at least some part of the culture.

Sergey Medvedev: Heat, Internet. Probably many pensioners go there?

The library must create conditions for the emergence of a local community

Boris Kupriyanov: Yes, as well as disadvantaged all ages - in any case, in the city. For example, adaptation of migrants is possible here ...

Sergey Medvedev: I read that this is happening in the West. In France, migrant children are trained in culture.

Boris Kupriyanov: In France - I don’t know, but in England the libraries are half filled with migrants who do not want to arrange a club from the library, but want to learn to read books, get acquainted with British culture, adapt. But this function is not used in Russia.

In our city lives at least one and a half million migrants from the Central Asian republics. Many have already given birth to children here, they are Muscovites. What is the future of these children, where will they go to work? Again, drivers of trolleybuses, janitors, utility workers in the kitchen, market, taxi drivers, builders? What giant intellectual potential we lose, throwing these people out of our appeal! The library can become exactly the place where people are introduced at least with the culture of the country, with its literature.

Sergey Medvedev: At the same time, the appearance of the region itself is created, the possibilities of ghettoiding, stigmatization of migrants are leaving. In my area Krylatskoye there is a wonderful library named after Anna Akhmatova. We used it very actively: I took books there for mama-pensionaries there. There were programs every day: concerts, theatrical productions, photo exhibitions changed every week. It was just an amazing center. Now he closed for a capital reconstruction - such a loss ...

Boris Kupriyanov: He will open and become even better. The Akhmatova library is beautiful, wonderful employees work there.

Sergey Medvedev: Moreover, I saw young librarians there! Who is working in libraries now? Everyone, probably, immediately has the image of an old grandmother-registrar, who fills the shape.

In England, libraries are half filled with migrants who want to get acquainted with British culture, to adapt

Boris Kupriyanov: If we talk about an abstract large library in a closed area, then a variety of people work there, it is difficult to bring them to a common denominator. Among them are many enthusiasts who really like to read, want to do something, do reading, children, raising the cultural level of a particular area. These are people who like to read. There are a large number of ambitious young people who want to change the world. Thank God there are such! I don’t know how long they can be there. What a sin to hide, the system works in this way ...

On the other hand, there are a large number of people who came to this area to solve some of their own career problems. For example, a very frequent case: a person settles in the library before the pension, and then, already in retirement, continues to work further.

Now, they say, there are serious changes in Moscow libraries, because there were great abbreviations. I know that in some areas they reduced half of the library workers, although no one says officially about it.

Boris Kupriyanov

Librarians, due to their professional skills and the specifics of work, are much more conservative than museum workers, for example. It seems to me that this is the most important mental problem of librarians. There are those who perfectly understand this and acts in this vein, but this is not all and, unfortunately, not even most.

The librarian must change, stop being a guardian and become a guide, navigator. Indeed, there are four hundred libraries in Moscow, and in the country there are generally a huge number of them (by the way, more than bookstores).

Sergey Medvedev: Is this a Soviet heritage?

Boris Kupriyanov: In the Soviet heritage of bookstores, there were enough.

Sergey Medvedev: Bookstores are subject to market laws, and libraries still remain in the state sphere.

Librarians are much more conservative than museum workers

Boris Kupriyanov: It only seems that there are a lot of libraries, but, having considered it, we will see that in all developed countries of the world there are one library for 27 thousand people. Moscow is not an exception to this rule, there are as many libraries as in Sweden. Moscow is a large city, and territorially to arrange four hundred libraries around the city is the same as in a fairly large city to arrange one, because they are far from each other.

A large number of people simply do not like to read, and this is a all -Russian problem. A person who does not like to read cannot be a librarian.

Sergey Medvedev: If we talk about the future role of the library, then, in addition to the social role, is this a place around which the area where migrants can be adapted and socially unsuccessful people can adapt?

Boris Kupriyanov: Not just a shelter, but a place of development.

Sergey Medvedev: Is this a kind of such hubs to streamline content, curators of content?

Boris Kupriyanov: This immediately takes us in a different direction. By the way, I think that many librarians (thank God, not everyone) dream of being curators of content. I read several documents where it is written in direct text.

Sergey Medvedev: How will the book save its place in culture and civilization in the next 30, 40, 50 years?

Boris Kupriyanov: I think that her place in culture and civilization will be preserved, and it does not matter in what form, in what medium it will be represented.

Sergey Medvedev: The library depends on the paper book or can it be purely digital?

The librarian must change, stop being a guardian and become a guide, navigator

Boris Kupriyanov: No. Just a paper book is much more convenient than digital. As practice shows, the digital boom stopped at certain numbers and does not grow further. The e -book, of course, has advantages, because most scientific publications generally completely become digital - it is very convenient when searching.

There are other forms. One good acquaintance of mine said that on the beach you can’t read an e-book for two reasons: firstly, it will always shine, and secondly, it is difficult to put in the sand. Both that and other technology have their own nuances.

Sergey Medvedev: In addition, a warm tube sound, a feeling of analogy ... Do you share it?

Boris Kupriyanov: I now began to read a lot of e -books, but reading the paper is more pleasant for a number of reasons. In general, in my opinion, it is not fundamental, on which the book is written - on clay tablets, on scrolls or in the code. Actually, the electronic book is arranged on the principle of the scroll. This is completely not important, the carrier plays a secondary role.

The paper book is much more convenient than digital

Not even a book as an institution is important, but reading as a practice. Whether reading as a practice will remain - it depends on the tasks that we set. If in the face of the fourth intellectual revolution we want to grow a special stratum of people who will serve 3-4% of those who will be included in this revolution, then, probably, the book is not needed. If we want to develop and live in a dynamic developing society, then, probably, a book is needed, because a book is a simple way of cognition and not only cognition, but for someone this is the only way to educate critical and analytical thinking.

Sergey Medvedev: I want to continue the idea of an analog book. I understand that libraries can become the data centers where there will be terminals, and people will use some curators or consultants to conduct an in-depth search. But nevertheless, the fact that this is a repository of analog books ... In general, it seems to me that the culture goes to the fact that there will be consumers of digital content and consumers, including books: the cultural elite of society will remain with paper books. After all, we have already talked about students, about student libraries, which still still remain in a book form in many ways.

Boris Kupriyanov: Honestly, I didn’t even really think about this topic. They just interviewed one wonderful writer, editor -in -chief of the Ladomir publishing house: he also believes that books are a luxury, they should be released for the corresponding category of people.

Sergey Medvedev: And not even consumer, but intellectual, mental luxury.

Not even a book as an institution is important, but reading as a practice

Boris Kupriyanov: I believe that the library is generally such a social luxury that the state provides to people. Few of us, even in large bibliophiles, the home collection of books is one hundred thousand copies. The Akhmatova library fund, in my opinion, is three hundred thousand units. This is a luxury when a person can come for free and choose from three hundred thousand books.

It seems to me that the attitude to the book as something sophisticated, not available to everyone, absolutely contradicts the idea of the library, because the library is something free, universal, accessible to everyone. This is a very democratic institution. And how people will read: in paper or electronic form, they will store books at home or will not - it depends on many factors.

Sergey Medvedev: Is something changed in Moscow? In general, in Russia, as I understand it, a difficult situation with libraries. In Moscow, it is possible to hear: the new Library of Dostoevsky, the library of Simonov, Tolstoy ... Still, are there large pilot projects?

Boris Kupriyanov: Dostoevsky’s library was made with us, this was the first project that we started. Changes occur in Moscow, but I am not ready to evaluate and discuss them. I am very happy about the news that the Akhmatova library has finally closed for repairs-this is a good story: a worthy library should get a decent space. I hope this space will be good interesting.

As for Russia, changes occur here, and sometimes global.

The library is such a social luxury that the state provides to people

Первое, что приходит на ум, – это Владивосток, где городская и краевая администрация понимают необходимость существования библиотек. Там за три или четыре года перестроена фактически половина библиотек. После перестройки приходит сразу резко большее количество людей. Перестройка – это, конечно, спекуляция: мы можем перестроить, привлечь людей, показать другие возможности, но это один из простых способов привлечь внимание к библиотеке. Библиотека должна соответствовать тем современным стандартам комфорта, которые люди могут получить в кафе, в музее, в книжном магазине. Это уже почти революционные действия. Количество людей, приходящих в библиотеки города Владивостока, после начала этих изменений увеличилось в три раза.

В Красноярском крае перестроены чуть ли не восемь библиотек. Можно критиковать то, как это сделано, но есть интерес к библиотекам со стороны горожан и жителей поселений, ведь библиотеки построены в разных местах, от Таймыра до Дивногорска, который находится около Красноярской ГЭС. Они изменяются, становятся любимыми, туда приходит много народу.

Сергей Медведев: То есть это вопрос государственных инвестиций.

Борис Куприянов: Да. Можно инвестировать в будущее. Конечно, отремонтированная дорога привлечет больше внимания, но через два года она, так или иначе, придет в негодность. Я думаю, вся программа библиотек не стоит тех украшений, которые делались в прошлом году в Москве.

Сергей Медведев: Можно вспомнить многое – например, 62-ю больницу…

А известно ли вам, что будет с библиотекой ИНИОН ?

Борис Куприянов: Насколько я знаю, это очень странная история.

Библиотека – это вещь, направленная в будущее

​ Сергей Медведев: Многие видели в этом зловещий символ.

Борис Куприянов: Да, это был символ, я уж не знаю, специально или не специально подстроенный. Все очень совпало: в Год литературы сгорает одна из замечательнейших библиотек, архитектурный памятник и одновременно – одно из лучших и интереснейших хранилищ книг. Потом дается обещание, что она будет восстановлена, производятся какие-то работы, библиотека переезжает на другое место, происходят серьезные изменения с сотрудниками и руководством библиотеки. В результате по последнему плану, насколько я знаю, на этом месте будет стоять большой торговый центр, а библиотека будет находиться в нем на шести тысячах метров, и это в десять раз меньше, чем она занимала.

Сергей Медведев: А фонды ИНИОНа разбросаны по разным библиотекам. Это, конечно, огромная потеря для науки и для всей российской культуры.

Главное, что стоит понять, особенно в рамках нашей футурологической программы: библиотека – это вещь, направленная в будущее, она имеет не только архивную и музейную ценность, но и являет собой образ каталогизации вообще всего нашего знания и, главное, создает социальные связи внутри города и всего российского общества.

Борис Куприянов: Я бы сказал, что библиотека и "Почта России" – это то, от чего зависит будущее. Вопрос не в том, будут ли они существовать в будущем, а в том, что картинка будущего зависит от нынешнего состояния библиотек и "Почты России", в том числе.