The frightened face of Donbass

In Amsterdam , the book of the famous photojournalist Pierre Krom and the editor of the NRC Handelsblad newspaper Eva Kyuker “War in Ukraine” (War in Ukraine) - a photo document of war that has been going on for three years has been published. The book includes pictures from numerous trips of Krom across Ukraine - from the capture of Crimea to the Rus of Debaltsev. On the cover-in the image of the heroine of the defense of Slavyansk-a portrait of the Moscow agent of the FSB Olga Kulygina, a close friend of the leaders of the "DPR" Igor (Besa) Bezler, Alexander Boroday and Igor Strelkov-Girkin. Pierre Crom told Radio Liberty about his work in Ukraine.

Your browser does not support HTML5

Pierre Crom in the program "Cultural Diary"

- Most of the journalists chose Donetsk as a base and from Donetsk went on trips to the Donbass. But I, a few days after arriving in Donetsk, decided to go to the thick of the conflict, to Slavyansk. In Slavyansk, from the window of the hotel where I stopped, I saw the courtyard in which the armored vehicles were parked. I saw, for example, how they left in the evening, and after 20 minutes shelling began. And then, when the shelling ended, 20 minutes passed and these cars returned to their parking lot. I couldn’t get directly to the front line then, it was closed to the press, but, just being in the thick of the conflict, you could see and hear what you couldn’t see otherwise, you could observe a lot and photograph your observations.

Donetsk, February 23, 2015. School teachers pose with weapons during the celebration of the Defender of the Fatherland Day

Pierre Krom is a Frenchman, but for 20 years now he has been living in Holland. Many of his iconographic pictures, especially from Slavyansk and from the scene of the Boeing’s crash near Donetsk, became the “visiting cards” of the war in the Donbass.

Photo journalist Pierre Crom

- I was one of the few photographers there. There were also Russian colleagues, at some point, colleagues from France, from England, from the USA were still a photographer of New York Times. But in general, there were few journalists. This was also due to the rules of accreditation, which were introduced later. The Western media actually closed access to the zone from where the pro -Russian formations were conducted.

- Publish part of your photos (a small part, because you took thousands of pictures) in the form of a book - your personal initiative?

February 18, 2015. The separatists who support Russia are shooting from Grad installations towards Debaltsev, despite the recent ceasefire agreement

- Yes, this is my idea. I have accumulated a lot of material from which a complete picture made up grains. From the beginning until January 2016. A full -fledged photo document, which includes the circumstances of the annexation of Crimea, the beginning of the war, the catastrophe of the flight MN17, the continuation of the war, the creation with the support of Russia "Donetsk" and the "Lugansk" people's republics. In Debaltsevo, I was also in the midst of events.

July 17, 2014. The MH17 flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur is shot down from the Earth-ATOSIC missile system from a territory controlled by the separatists that Russia supports. None of the 298 passengers and crew members survived

- In Holland, you are known primarily as the first photographer, who was at the crash site of Boeing July 17, 2014.

This war continues today. War in Europe

- Absolutely true, in Holland the tragedy of the flight MN17 is a very important topic that has become the main theme in the media many times. But let's not forget that this tragedy is part of the war in Ukraine. We created our book, including in order to determine the context of the Boeing tragedy. From here, from Holland, it seems that the collapse of Boeing is a separate event, but this is not so. The death of Boeing is part of a large war in Ukraine, wars with a front line of almost 500 km. My book gives an idea of how the conflict developed before the tragedy of MN17 and what was then, because this war continues today. War in Europe. A couple of weeks ago, the Dutch relatives of the dead in a disaster for the first time contacted me - a mother who lost her son and daughter -in -law. Together with her husband, this woman came to the presentation of my book in Amsterdam, we talked for a long time, and she said that it was very important for her to consider these photos, to understand the context in which a huge grief for their family happened. Because everyone still has a lot of questions. This family, which came to the presentation, collected newspaper and magazine articles and made an album of them. Now the mother, who has lost her son, writes a book about what happened to them. And a lot for them remains incomprehensible, they fell asleep me with questions. Probably, we will still meet, and I will try to tell them everything I know. When I returned to Holland then, after the disaster, the prime minister Mark Rutte called me and asked that I could advise the premiere. Giving advice to the prime minister is not my job, but I think to quickly respond to the tragedy, the Dutch authorities could negotiate directly with those people in whose hands there was power in the region at that time. We know that this did not happen for well -known reasons. The operation to search for and repatriation of the remains was conducted painfully for a long time.

Grabovo, July 26, 2014. Angela and George Dichinsky from Perth, Australia, looking for their 25-year-old daughter Fatima

- It just seems to me that this moment, about the one in whose hands there is power, is very often illuminated in the Dutch media with excessive caution. Speech revolutions like “according to unconfirmed data” are launched, as a result of which the viewer does not develop a clear picture, that Russian units operate there, that it is Russia that controls these territories. Who had to negotiate with? Are people sitting there sitting there independent rebels?

The Russian officer explained to me that his tasks include intercepting power from scattered groups in Lugansk

- You are right, but now Moscow has more control over all the groups that they operate there. During the Boeing disaster, Moscow did not control all the groups, there were more small leaders. The last time I personally talked with a Russian officer in the Donbass when they checked my accreditation. It was in the commandant’s office of Lugansk. I was all right with accreditation, I was just brought to the commandant’s office for verification. And there the Russian officer explained to me that his tasks include intercepting power from scattered groups in Lugansk and that this is not the end, that there are a lot of weapons. It was in January 2016.

- That is, a little over a year ago. And he just told you about it just like that?

- Yes, just told. I sat there, waited for my documents to be checked. I could not take a picture of him, but a lot was said. From the presence of Russia there, no secret is done. It's no secret that Russian troops are present there.

- And in what form was he dressed?

- In the form of the LPR.

- How did you then learn that he is a Russian officer?

- He himself said that he is a Russian officer who now serves in the Lugansk commandant’s office.

- Strelkov (Girkin) also says that he is a Russian officer.

- Strelkov is a person who started this war. I spent five weeks in Slavyansk at the beginning of the war, and the book has a photograph of Strelkov - I made it at the moment when he released the Ukrainian captivity. Strelkov in a small group of people began this war. Look: Strelkov at the entrance to the city administration building on Lenin Square in Slavyansk, he releases the Ukrainian prisoner who worked as an assistant to the OSCE mission. The handcuffs had just removed the prick, he rubs his wrists. Strelkov’s people stand around and tell us (to me and another photographer) that you can’t shoot, but I managed to take one picture so that they did not notice.

The commander of the pro -Russian forces Igor Strelkov gives an order to release the hostage

- How are such pictures? Did you know in advance that the prisoner will be released?

- No, I did not know anything. I stayed there for five weeks, I walked around the city every day. We only knew that Strelkov captured people from the OSCE that something would happen. This photograph was taken on May 3, 2014, and on May 2 there was a major operation of the Ukrainian army, when the Ukrainian army surrounded the city. It was then that I took another interesting picture - a portrait of the FSB agent from Moscow Olga Kulygina.

Olga Kulygina from Moscow takes part in hostilities in Slavyansk

- This photograph is on the cover of the book. In the pro -Russian communities, she appeared with the signature of "Mother Slavyansk defended the city", and when Klygin was arrested in the same month, when trying to transport financing for militants through the Biryukovo border post, one of the separatists' leaders Igor Bezler demanded that she was "the young wife of an ordinary militia." After another couple of months, one klygin was exchanged for 17 Ukrainian prisoners of war. In the Ukrainian media, they write about her as the organizer of the operations of Russian special services in Syria, Georgia and Ukraine. Last spring, Radio Liberty became known that it was Klygina’s address and the “Donbass volunteers of Donbass volunteers” that are based in Moscow that numerous letters from separatists come to help with Russian documents or help with Russian documents.

- The fact that Kulygina is an agent of the FSB, I later learned about its exchange and return to Moscow from Kyiv journalists. When I photographed it, I was just an operation through the encirclement of Slavyansk, and I was on the air of the BBC . I stood with a mobile phone pressed to my shoulder when I suddenly saw it surrounded by separatists.

- Olga Kulygina - a member of the "team" Strelkova?

- Yes, the teams that were sent to light the war.

- Do you have information about how numerous could this “team” be?

- According to my observations, there were several dozen of them. There were several groups. There were armed military Strelkov to the teeth, there were 30–40 of them, no more. There were local ones who also armed themselves and stood on checkpoints. And there were also civilian, with light weapons, which took part in separate promotions and demonstrations. That is, there were several layers that all together incurred the conflict. Moreover, it was pretty well noticeable that the activities of all these groups were sorkest. When Slavyansk was already released, I talked with the locals, and they told me that these people who showed on the barricades had never seen there before, that is, they came from outside. Slavyansk is a small city, everyone knows each other.

- And what was the general mood among the ordinary inhabitants of Slavyansk, when the separatists appeared there? Did they just be afraid? Supported them?

In the city, an atmosphere of terror reigned, an atmosphere of horror

- There was almost no one on the streets, everyone who stayed sat at home. I talked with some citizens during the occupation of the city by pro -Russian separatists. When shelling began, many left the city. Everyone experienced fear primarily. In the city, an atmosphere of terror reigned, an atmosphere of horror. The city was captured by people with weapons.

Pro -Russian separatists create a blockade of trees trunks, Slavyansk

-Did you manage to photograph some other participants in these events, about which, with a high degree of probability, one could say that they specially arrived from Russia?

- I have a photograph of a group of men who sawed the trees and blocked them with the passage of Ukrainian armored vehicles, which they were waiting for in Slavyansk. The armored vehicles did not arrive that day, but the road locks were carried out. About these people who arranged a blockade on the roads, local residents also told me that they had never seen them before. And here is another photo. It was made at the moment when Ukrainian troops approached Slavyansk, during the same operation in an attempt to surround the city in the spring of 2014. Groups of people then headed towards Ukrainian tanks to express their protest. I photographed a man with an icon in my hands. I photographed this man in three different settlements at three different demonstrations. The conclusion suggests itself that some people were specially sent to arrange such "civilian protests." This man on May 2 was in Andreevka, and before that I still photographed him under Kramatorsky, where a civilian group detained the Ukrainian convoy. That is, it was all staged.

Pro -Russian activists express the protest of the Ukrainian army

- Local residents also came to similar conclusions, about staging? Because both in the Western and especially in the Russian media all the time there is a picture of support for the local population of separatists.

- Everyone was just afraid, and no one knew what was happening. Local residents saw how armed people suddenly began to erect on the streets of the barricades, to seize local administrations. We saw violence. Most local residents did not take part in this. In Donetsk there were demonstrations against the separatists, ending with serious brawls.

- But Donetsk is a large city. And in small towns, when the locals saw these visitors, how did they perceive them? How are the defenders of the Russian -speaking population? Or were they afraid of them?

Everyone is asked to return the old Donetsk, the former pre -war life

-They saw that something was wrong that their land gradually seized these groups. Some locals, who then supported the separatists at first, told me that they regret it and dream of returning the life that was before the war. Now they understood how far everything went, many lost relatives, children. Many lost their jobs. Some lived in basements to escape during shelling. Now everyone is asking to return the old Donetsk, the former pre -war life.

Zholobok, December 28, 2015. A deceiving artillery position "Ghost" to mislead the Ukrainian army

- Did you notice this during the last trip?

- Yes, during the last, but throughout the war too. People often told me that they want to return life, what it was before the occupation.

“But there were those who greeted the new government?”

-There were those who shouted "Ro-sie!" On Lenin Square. But among them, many say that they would not shout if they knew where everything would go. There are also those who are beneficial to the current lawlessness. This has become a business, the mafia is working in the occupied territories. Cases of kidnapping are frequent, for example, for the sake of profit. They abduct someone, require a ransom from relatives in cash.

- And in the Crimea the situation is different?

- The first time I arrived in Ukraine precisely in Crimea, in February 2014, the day before the start of all events. I mean a demonstration in Simferopol, which grew into a fight between pro -Ukrainian and pro -Russian participants. Then they were killed and wounded. After the resignation of the head of the Sevastopol administration, a large group of pro -Russian activists came to Simferopol. And there was just a manifestation for the Ukrainian Crimea, many Crimean Tatars came. There was a fight between these two groups. Then everything went very quickly. For the first time I saw the Russian army on February 28. I left Simferopol, and upon returning back to the city, we saw a huge column of Russian armored vehicles.

Simferopol, February 28, 2014. The Russian military column is a poster with a referendum advertisement

- But then no one has said that it was Russian armored vehicles.

- Yes, but look - my photo that day. On the armored personnel carrier - the Russian flag.

- Exactly! I never noticed this. An armored car without identification marks, but on the exhaust pipe - a Russian tricolor. How interesting, I thought they all carefully disguised!

- We, photojournalists, must see the smallest details and fix them. On the same day, the Russian military captured the airport in Simferopol.

Simferopol, February 28, 2014. Russian soldiers without identification marks occupy the airport

- You also have photographs of "green men" from a very close distance, point blank. And these young eyes are visible from under the balaclava and helmets. Did they allow themselves to shoot themselves so closely?

- Yes, they allowed. It was useless to ask them something, they did not answer questions from journalists. But I did not ask anything. During the capture of Crimea, I saw a lot of Russian soldiers. In various places, including around the Ukrainian military base.

The Russian military meets with the Ukrainian officer (second left) in front of the Ukrainian military base

- What was the mood among the local population in the Crimea? Did many really rejoiced?

- The same as then in Slavyansk. Everyone was anxious. Many simply did not know what to do. Because, given the history of the Soviet naval base in the Crimea, among the Ukrainian troops there were children of the Russian military, who served there in Soviet times and then settled. These Ukrainian military grew up on the Soviet naval base. But many of them remained faithful to the Ukrainian oath and continue to live in the Crimea. Some left. Some soldiers switched to the Russian side. All divided.

- And when was the last time you were there?

- We traveled in August 2016 and drove up to the Crimea from the Ukrainian side. Then there were again accusations of sabotage, accused the Ukrainians of Crimea, and we went to make a report on the Perekop Isthmus. Everyone we talked to, to death, are tired of new borders. Many have relatives in Crimea. Or vice versa, among the Crimeans - relatives in Ukraine. Им приходится часами ждать на блокпостах – сначала на российском, потом на украинском. Все говорят, что сыты по горло.

– Но в сам Крым вы в тот раз уже не поехали?

– Нет, потому что мы тогда две недели подряд снимали в семи разных странах по периметру российской границы. Мы делали серию репортажей для голландской газеты Trouw о напряженности между Западом и Россией в тех странах, где живет многочисленное русскоязычное население.

– И какое у вас осталось впечатление?

Все понимают, что там никакая не гражданская война идет

​– Впечатление такое, что люди понимают, что ничего нет хуже войны. Все видят, что самопровозглашенные республики на востоке Украины так и остались официально в составе Украины, что Россия их не признала. И пусть у нас в Голландии телекомпания NOS сколько угодно называет это гражданской войной, все понимают, что там никакая не гражданская война идет.

– А ваша последняя поездка в эти самые самопровозглашенные республики, какие впечатления остались от нее?

Первомайск, 30 декабря 2015. Местные жители набирают питьевую воду

– Ну вот, например, Первомайск, городок рядом с Луганском, находился на линии фронта. Город закрытый, но меня пустили по аккредитации. Народу там осталось очень мало, жизнь очень тяжелая. Цены в магазинах страшно высокие на все, водопровод не работает, люди ходят с бутылками за водой. Иными словами, нормальный ритм жизни подорван, кругом царит нищета. Сейчас линия фронта сдвинулась немного на запад. Можно сказать, что она заморожена, бои случаются редко, но перестрелка ведется с обеих сторон. И вот в этой зоне близ линии фронта живут несколько сотен тысяч человек, все они – жертвы продолжающегося конфликта. Даже если отъехать от линии фронта вглубь оккупированных территорий, то чувствуется страх. People are afraid. Боятся говорить, боятся высказывать свое мнение. Происходят спонтанные аресты, права человека не соблюдаются, медицинской помощи нет, лекарств нет. Тяжело больных лечить негде, нужно отправлять их в Украину, то есть перебрасывать через линию фронта.

Местная жительница собирает угольные отходы, которыми заделаны дыры в асфальте

– Или в Россию.

– Большинство из тех, с кем я разговаривал, хотят ехать лечиться в Украину. Но чтобы им разрешили пересечь линию фронта, нужно заплатить, там работает коррупционная схема. Сепаратисты также организуют похищения, держат пленных в сымпровизированных "тюрьмах" и вымогают за них деньги. Очень много страха.

Местные жители бегут из своих домов после того, как сепаратисты, которых поддерживает Россия, захватили контроль над городом

– А в Славянске как обстоят дела?

– Славянск теперь – свободный город. Люди вздохнули с облегчением, туда жизнь вернулась. Открыты магазины, кафе. Everything works. Представьте себе только, этот город неделями обстреливался, чтобы прогнать сепаратистов, которых поддерживала Россия. В итоге это удалось. Многие люди вернулись. Конечно, город подвергся разрушению, но сейчас там хорошо чувствуется разница между мирным городом и городом в состоянии войны.

Углегорск, 13 августа 2014. Украинская армия возвращает контроль над Углегорском

– И жители Славянска прямо так и называют это освобождением?

– Те, с кем я разговаривал, называли это освобождением и огромным облегчением. Город был освобожден от войны, и в него вернулась жизнь.

– У вас есть такое впечатление, что Россия теперь переключилась с Украины на остальную Восточную Европу, на Балканы?

По Восточной Европе распространяется волнение

​– Я сейчас вообще много езжу, в том числе на Балканы, и наблюдаю, как по Восточной Европе распространяется волнение. Молдова была на пути к евроинтеграции, теперь там пророссийский президент. Напряжение нарастает в Черногории, в Македонии, в Сербии, в Косове, в Боснии. Проблема на Балканах заключается в том, что там по-прежнему очень много коррупции. Людей у власти обвиняют в коррупции, и одновременно они ассоциируются с Западом, потому что они выступали за интеграцию с Западом. Есть широкие слои населения, которые выступают против коррупции во власти, но не против интеграции с Западом, не против НАТО. Так, например, происходит в Черногории. Есть конструктивная оппозиция, которая против коррупции. И вдруг к ней, что называется, "примазывается" какая-то антизападная, антинатовская группировка, которая начинает использовать протест против коррупции в целях разжечь антизападные настроения в обществе. И чтобы различать эти группы, чтобы видеть эти процессы, очень важно бывать на местах, а не анализировать ситуацию издалека.