Between God and Kukushkin

Irina Peters: The first monologue of Lithuania Niyole about the radio and the Russian language, in which she wrote in her youth, her first verses and which she owns, despite the fact that they never spoke it in the family, more dieter than many Russians, easily and, I would say, use such expressions as “everything became shaky”, “my speech does not bloom” or, about someone-“this political outfit!” "He was put in his face." Or, yet - "People, trample yourself with your body." That's what it means to read a lot.

Niyole is about the same: I myself am now surprised how much early I could read Tsvetaeva, how much early I could be fascinated by the sound of this language in the sphere of expressing high feelings. What especially attracted me to the expression of my feelings in Russian. It was always embarrassed on Lithuanian that even when you read poetry, it is a one -story language, that is, it is everyday, there is no this ascending degree. It is impossible for us, for example, in some kind of public assembly “Our Previous”, as they said about Ryazanov on the day of his anniversary. From these words, I just ammonous, because it is a true expression of feelings that goes beyond the everyday framework. And in the Lithuanian language, like normal peasants, everything is at the same level - “I love you”, “Go, you sing”. There were a lot of conversations with the beautiful writer Sulus Shaltyanis on this score. He just told me: that our language is so ancient and so capacious that it does not need stratification. But then it was very important for me to speak not everyday language.

You will come to me with white snow

You will return to me with white pain

There will be the sun to run along the roofs,

The sun will shine with love.

These are my love poems. Then I burned everything because love was unhappy. But I remember that. The attitude to the language remains. And now, when I listen to both Radio Liberty, and my favorite echo of Moscow, in which you can hear such excellent Russian speech, and not only speech, but also thoughts. The radio has always been my love. A long -standing dream to work on the radio. I worked for a couple of years, nobody paid me a salary, but it was an occupation from that sphere when you yourself ask yourself: would you pay yourself for this opportunity? Yes, I would pay extra. You can reproduce such an intimate atmosphere with those who listen to you! Not preoccupied with how you look that on television, on which I worked longer, it takes eighty percent of your energy and your attention. This is very scary. I feel completely happy now, because when you jump out of the market this exhibitionism, sex shop, it’s just great, you feel like a person. I had such a night program, they lasted for three four hours, and you can speak as if with a loved one just in his ear in this microphone. The feeling is beautiful. And the memory is very long-standing-in my childhood, the TV was only in the same family in my high-rise building, but this radio station all the time said something, did not turn off, and I heard in the second grade as President Kennedy was shot. Some memories all the time related to the radio. We walked along the avenue in Vilnius and under his arm were these wen, and there were terrible jammers. And one more thing - they kicked me out of the Komsomol. Neighbor Boris Borukh, he was a Jew, and he listened to Radio Liberty. I needed a company, I was 14 years old and he took me with him, we closed in a small room, his wife was not interested in this, my mother was not interested either, and we listened to Radio Liberty with him. And by that time I was already a Komsomol member. And I was appointed because the language was suspended, to make political information every week. And since it was again, I was just accepted, and in my life I never heard absolutely nothing about the occupation of Lithuania ... Because it turned out later, when I asked my mother how she dared to not say anything to me all this time, it turned out that there was such a tragic story of the family. My mother ran away from the village, she just had a young man who was a military man, he was an officer of the Lithuanian army and asked her to run together. She could not, because she was a big family, she was the eldest. And he hanged himself under her windows. That is, there was such a terrible story. And my mother replied to me: “You have such a language that if I told you something, you would be in the madhouse, I would be in prison or vice versa. That's all. " I then asked: “How did you stand on all time on all time? You let me into the Komsomol, and the pioneers, and everywhere! What kind of people are some kind of crawl?! So they mocked you (because I recognized all this almost in one day, already in adulthood), and you were silent all the time! ” And my mother here told me such words: "Therefore, we are preserved." But then it seemed to me that it was very scary, that it was low and better to die than so. Now I understand: maybe that’s why my mother did not listen to all these voices - it was scary. And I come to my class and tell them that the newspaper Pravda writes that Komsomolskaya Pravda writes and that I heard on Radio Liberty. I was called to the director after that. And I don't understand what's the matter. In short, they flooded me from there. We had a very good director. He saved me twice. Another time, when we had classes on the assembly of Kalashnikov (it was a military affair, the Kalashnikovs were dismantled), such an old officer says: “Well, now we will stand at the end of the class and we will rush into the board.” I will speak: “The fool will fall into the board. Let's rush into this portrait. " And the portrait of Lenin. The director called me the next day: “The report was written on you, I have to drive you out of school, because this colonel came and says that you are anti -Soviet.” And I was terribly curious, I read a lot, there was no large choice, Lenin entered my reading circle. “You just offered to shoot Lenin!” I say: "I read Lenin." "I do not believe!" He took the exam. He asked me, I answered him, he called this man and said: "You look at how it is filled up." Everything worked out. I saved me twice.

Niyole Okomatoita (photo from the archive of Lithuanian television)

Irina Peters: On entrance exams at the Lithuanian Conservatory.

Niyole Okomka: the professor says: “You can trust me. I want to ask you who you are, I want to know what you are still doing. ” She pulled out the paper: the “State Security Committee” sent you to you that you should not be enrolled in students. You are so young, you are 18 years old, what did you do, that such a paper came? ” There were no politicians in our hippies, but they caught on the streets, cut their hair, cut the mini skirts, on the mini -loungers were listened to the radio, “Beatles”, I translated “Jesus Christ Superstar” there, that when I worked in parliament, I brought me to a foreign commission because I knew several expressions in English. And in London, in front of the Mejger, at the congress of conservative women, before Margaret Thatcher, I read a speech in English, which was composed of pieces of Spirichuel and songs. Everyone admired, said: "What are your expressions!" Because I said: “Toometimes we feat a motherless child” - there is such a Spirichuel.

Irina Peters: On the role of bad women and disappointment in the profession.

Niyole Okhotima: it was a hundred years ago. If someone remembers, then the red-haired people on the screen appeared like such depraved, dissolute, not at all Soviet bad women. Since I have some specific voice and small growth, the professor told me that the role of such depraved women awaits me. Since I always knew in my life that I was not a beauty, this phrase fell on my brains. I hated my profession terribly, I was always ashamed to say that I was an actress. Acting is a specific lesson, especially our Stanislavsky school. Maybe I will gross roughly, but when you just masturbate your feelings and someone uses it. You yourself are not the creator, the director makes you do it, and nothing is born from this masturbation. Everyone see how you show these true feelings, turn out. And then, where to wrap them back - no one teaches you this. Therefore, the tragedies in the acting environment. What I saw at the film festivals, my favorite idols of drunk, on all fours, I can not even name the names, because they are still legends. Since she told me that nothing good would come of me, she broke my career. With Volodya Vysotsky, we had everything because he offered me the only ones in the film. I have not a single bad role where I am not the most innocent, I am an angel everywhere, I am positive everywhere, not funny anywhere. I just proved my professor with every choice that no, no and no! I realized very early that the actor is not an artist, the director uses you to make a world that was not. I realized for myself that the actor is like a crane. What water will flow out of it? Either it will be life -giving, tasty, or it will be ugly. When we were students, my classmate and I went to Moscow. Taganka then rang, we went to "ten days that shocked the world." And there the actors go before the performance. And since I am small, I don’t see anything, I just stood on the stairs separately to see them. And suddenly Vysotsky is separated from all actors, through the crowd comes to me and tells me: "Laponka, you do not go anywhere after the performance, come to the service entrance, I have a conversation." Everyone looks at me. And our professor said that if someone someday very famous for you is interested, you should know: sex and nothing more, only to exploit you. She always put on our editing one of our famous actress Egle Gabrenet, who gave the very famous director in his face and therefore lost her role, but she defended herself. Of course, I no longer remember what was shown in this performance, and I don’t remember anything at all, because Vysotsky was God for everyone, both for the driver and for the professor. “Will you go?! Will you go?! ” "I won’t go!" "Are you a fool?" “Well, I will go to hug, he is God, I can’t push him away, but I can’t!” And I did not go, because I could not solve the problem for myself how to behave. She did not go to a meeting with God, yes. Well, we went to look ... There was no place and with some Moscow boy I walked around Moscow for five hours, he also did not get to the performance, we were the same time. I read my poems. Then I met this boy in twenty years.

Irina Peters: 1991. Vilnius-Ozel.

Niyole is about the same: after the bloody January events, Landsbergis called me: “Listen, information came from our friends in Norway, that the embassy, the second secretaries (as a rule, the Caigbists worked second secretaries) invite politicians, invite everyone to watch the norzorov’s film“ Ours ”, as the Lithuanians put them under Russian tanks, they shoot their own. We need these terrible frames so that someone is driving there. Go ". Without money, without nothing. I sat in the Volga, he gave me these films, in Riga the ambassador of Sweden met me, gave a ticket to Stockholm and a visa, there the Norway ambassador met me at the airport, gave tickets to Oslo, there I was met by the president of Baltic Supporting Group, he headed assistance to the Baltic countries. He says that the person who invites everyone, his name is Kukushkin, probably works in the KGB: “Do you have nothing against?” "Nothing". We went to his house. A young man with champagne comes. He began to say: “Look what is being done, they want to separate, do not understand that Russia feels these Baltic republics as its fingers, and that it will not allow to cut off, because ...”. We have already sat down at the table, we are already talking in Russian, what English is here. I say: “There is nothing to lie here, in Russia they don’t know at all what Vilnius and Lithuania are, they know Riga, because they go there to buy clothes.” And, suddenly - stop frame! He begins to ask questions from which my jaw dropped: “Well, how did you solve the issue of life and death, are you still afraid to die? Remember, twenty years ago? Then I could not fall in love with anyone for five years. How much have you said to me, I recorded everything. ” And then he already told everything. “What should I do? Here came the film "Our", a tap has come to show what to show. If I don’t do this, they will call me to Moscow. ” We checked all night. There were many press conferences, I showed all these materials. I fly home through Moscow. The plane stops, they don’t let anyone out, some Volga drives up, a high-ranking officer with such a Karakulevo dad is entering the aircraft: “Comrade is on board?” That's it, he arrestes me here, because I said this in Norway. "Follow me." On the "Seagull" he took me to some VIP restaurant, they transported me to Bykovo, from where the plane flew to Vilnius, and handed me the last hello to my friend Kukushkin. That's what feelings are. Now, when I look at Russia - my God, get out of this pit, you will need to get out! You can fall as much as you like, but a person is still a person, people are still people, and you will need to get involved. My sympathy is huge.

Irina Peters: History with Vladimir Vysotsky. Continuation.

Niyole is about: my fellow student told the whole course how it was all, and that she, a fool, did not go. After half a year - Taganka’s tour in Vilnius. Before the performance, they go again, the mass of the people! Again I stood near the column and the whole course laughed at me. But the crowd spreads again, he comes up to me and says: “Well, this time you will not run away? I have a business proposal for you. ” But this time I did not run away. We went to his hotel, I then saw all the gods, and Slavin. They came to his room, he treated everyone. “And then, he says, I agreed to play in this film, because I have the opportunity to choose a partner. You read the script. " I am sitting, waiting for me to run away. It was so strange to see this man who was my height and not beautiful. “I will play you. You know, in fact, I am a poet. ” And so he sings songs, a table lamp, and I see his reflection on the wall. A shadow, this shadow, a huge profile - this corresponds to what Vysotsky is. He tells me something there, "with your talent ...". What is my talent? I don’t understand what’s the matter. "You need to go to Moscow." I can’t reproduce what he told me now, because I did not understand at all and waited for the moment when something came when I need to defend myself. I am not some kind of special, two tops and hemp from the pot. We somehow walked with school girlfriends in winter and the boys began to cling to us from the back: "Girls, let's go there." We turned this way: "And you, redhead, go home." I knew everything to myself. He had performances in factories, he sang songs there. And we said something there, and he sang something to me, friends came. Then there was still a telephone station that connected, a switch. “Connect me with Paris. Yes, the same Vysotsky. Marina, do you know who is sitting here? Well, she is so talented, funny. ” Why talented? I didn’t even read poetry. He unraveled my whole life, but it was already later. This ended with the fact that I then realized the first time in my life that alcoholism is a disease. Because it was always funny for me: you want - you drink, you want - you don’t drink. And he comes into suffocation all, then swallows, he becomes normal and he leaves. It’s just physically, not what he wants to drink, no, he just dies. He probably already had this ampoule. It all ended that they left. My professor said to me: "I just throw you out of the course, I will expel you." I didn’t go, because they just didn’t let me go. That's all.

Niyole Okomatom in the Sejm of Lithuania, 1991 (photo: v.jasinevičius)

Irina Peters: And again - to the January events of 1991 in Vilnius. Soviet tanks near the television tower, thousands of people with a live wall surrounded the parliament, there, deputy niole, the signator of the “Act on Independence of the Lithuanian Republic”, the mother of two children, is torn to their workplace.

Niyole is about: the husband curses obscenities, two children are sleeping - 15 and 10. He closes the door: “You won’t go anywhere!” "I'll go!" “Where are you going? You can’t vote, you don’t have a mandate. ” I run away with a terrible feeling: my God, if they are killed there faster than I will run, it will be ashamed to stay alive. People will say that they chose the artist, but she cannot even die with everyone. This stupid thought was in my head. And since I am redhead, so there are no eyelashes or eyebrows, I don’t go out, now I already go out, then I threw the cosmetic bag with me, quickly to the bridge, I already ran into the hall through the whole crowd, I was sitting and dying. And a journalist comes up to me, some foreigner, and says: “Crasy Woman! What are you doing?! ” News are already coming that there are dead, that tanks are coming here. I say: "You understand, I am an actress, I want to die beautiful." Then Ingvald Godal wrote the book "I want to die beautiful, Lithuania." There was no fear at all, this is a country of non -frighty idiots, but we lived like in a movie: you can speak differently, but to really kill, it doesn’t happen. And it became scary only when the news came that the girl was killed. It suddenly became a reality, it became so scary ... Ingvald called the year: "Sorry, I can’t talk to you, because I am coming to die with everyone." He remained in tears in his Norway. It was unambiguous for me: I can die for my homeland? Can! Now I will never sit there, because I am not interested. I would go crazy because I am specifically uninteresting. I got a second time, and no longer had to die for the homeland. И я поняла: боже мой, так это что, я должна сейчас сидеть, делать какой-то умный вид, экономические темы? Тогда я нашла себе хорошее применение - вошла в Комитет по правам человека. Четыре года работала в местах не столь отдаленных, в которые не шли работать, потому что всем было неприятно и противно. Наши тюрьмы, лагеря, они были советские, страшные, ужас, что там творилось. Как вы относитесь к нашим заключенным? Who are they? Не люди. Захотел - дал по мордам. У вас такое было отношение. Удалось многое изменить. Думаю: боже мой, какая-нибудь бабуся встретит меня на улице и спросит: «А за что ты там зарплату получаешь?». Я там нормально поработала, но больше ни за какие деньги туда не пойду.

Ирина Петерс: 1990 год. В Вильнюс приезжает Михаил Горбачев с супругой. «Ну скажите мне, зачем вам нужна вот эта независимость? Вот зачем?». Вот он стоит, вот он кричит, и никто ему ничего не говорит. Назавтра встреча в ЦК в узком кругу. Там он говорит, выступает, Раиса Максимовна сидит в первом ряду. Говорит, что он затеял перестройку для того, чтобы накормить народ, чтобы поднять благополучие. Мой тезис в моей речи были таков: понимаете, Михаил Сергеевич, а вот у нас в Литве мы сыты, одеты. Тогда свобода становится тем, что для других одежда. И потом мы пошли за кулисы, и там уже никого не было, только Бразаускас, Горбачев и Раиса. И он берет мою руку, знакомится, не отпускает, и на меня начинает кричать, что маленький народ, маленькое разумение, вы не понимаете, куда вы все клоните, чем это все кончится! А я стою и думаю: как это он на меня кричит? У меня потерялись русские слова. Я говорю: «Михаил Сергеевич, а почему вы такой..?». «Какой -«такой»?». Я хотела сказать, что он колется, я забыла это слово, я говорю: «Как ежик!». «Какой ежик?!». Бразаускас убежал куда-то, оставил нас вдвоем. Вот так я обозвала его ежиком.

Ирина Петерс: О работе на телевидении.

Нийоле Ожелите: Продюсер Валинскас предложил: «Я хочу с тобой работать, я хочу твой темперамент куда-то употребить». Я сказала, что передача должна называться «Коррида», мы выбираем такие темы на свежих политических чувствах, как в корриде они острые. Всегда выбирала такую позицию, в которую я, как человек, верю. This is the only way. Вчетвером или впятером накидывались, а я только отбивалась. Звонили по 20-25 тысяч человек. И вот за два или три года, сколько продолжалась эта передача, я проиграла только один бой – вступление в НАТО. Это широко обсуждалось, а моя позиция была такая, что – нет. Проиграла одним или сколько там голосом. Но звонило тогда 39 тысяч человек, очень много. Единственная коррида, которую я проиграла.

Ирина Петерс: Опыт, философия общения и счастье жизни без мечты.

Нийоле Ожелите: Поняла, почему мне так далека профессия актера. Потому что я не могу играть, я не умею играть, мне не интересно притворяться. What will I say? Как я скажу? Аргументы возникают от того, что тебе говорят, абсолютно сразу. И как я была потом удивлена, через пятнадцать лет, когда я вдруг читаю, что когда ваш ум спокоен, то как только возникает потребность его употребить, вы употребляете его в самом лучшем виде. Если ты понимаешь, что ты говоришь, если это твое, если ты уверен в этом, если ты уверен, что это полезно для других, ты даешь это как лекарство, ты даешь это просто, ты ничего не выдумываешь. Я надеюсь только на себя, мне есть, чем поделиться, я просто делаюсь. Было страшное испытание для меня, когда была встреча с Папой Римским Войтылой. А я-то не религиозная. Он приходит, а все наши деятели коммунистические целуют ему руку. И меня просто скрутило, как и с Высоцким – я же не буду ему целовать руку, потому что это для меня неестественно просто, я не могу. А они все целуют. И вот подходит он ко мне, смотрит на меня такими глазами, и вдруг я почему-то ему говорю, что моя мама лежит при смерти, она очень верующая. Он что-то мне на польском говорит, а я ему тоже на польском говорю, потому что я могу на польском, и целую я ему эту руку, абсолютно никакому не Папе Римскому. У меня не было отца. Такое ощущение от него было, как от человека. У меня не было мечты в детстве, но когда я сейчас оглядываюсь на свою жизнь… Ты и не мечтал, ты бы и не нафантазировал такой жизни, какая она у меня есть. Что бы у меня не случалось, для меня казалось каким-то волшебством, я всегда была счастлива, что бы там ни творилось. Я думала, что я маленькая, некрасивая и что вообще я ничего не достойна, и все, что случается в жизни - это подарок, просто подарок.

Ирина Петерс: Красота - как крест. Наделенные ею женщины с годами теряют не только, как все- молодость, но и красоту. Рецепты от Нийоле.

Нийоле Ожелите: У меня муж еще тот был, я была счастлива, потому что никогда не думала, что я со своей внешностью могу хоть что-нибудь. Понимала, что я не конкурентка в этой сексуальной жатве. Он говорит: «Ты не расстраивайся, вот когда ты постареешь… Кто в молодости некрасивый, тот бывает в старости красивый». Уменя особое отношение с телом. Никогда в жизни я себя не отождествляла с телом, это было с малых лет, это дар божий. Поэтому красота, что кто-то будет смотреть… Я себя никогда не ощущала куском мяса. Очень важно для человека сознательно хотя бы пять минут в день подумать, что тело это биоробот, это скафандр. Хочешь выпить водки? Так это же не ты хочешь. Когда тело выпило водки, оно тебя отключает, и тогда этот зверь свободен от тебя. Так что растождествлять себя, свои желания и желания тела очень даже надо. Когда скафандр начинает управлять тобой, то ты даже не человек. У меня какое отношение к телу? Я не должна его чувствовать, оно не должно мне мешать жить, и до сих пор я стою на голове спакойненько каждое утречко, делаю свечечку. Литовцы бы сказали, что у меня детей нет, у меня только три дочки. Да, детьми у нас называются мальчики. И две внучки. Другого ребенка я могла бы любить как своего. Если ты любишь кого-то истинно, ты понимаешь, что любовь ничего не имеет общего с каким-то одним существом. Как самолюбие отличается от любви? Любовь не болит. Если болит - значит, самолюбие. И любовь всегда распространяется на большее количество людей, чем на одного. Ты начинаешь с одного, потом ты чувствуешь, что любишь всех. А самолюбие всегда из одного человека делает такую коробку, в которую засовываешь свое счастье. Эта коробка должна быть при тебе. Никогда не ощущала, что дети это мое продолжение. Я – ворота, через которые они въехали. Это отдельные люди. Общаемся на том уровне, на котором мы любим друг друга.