Maryana Torocheshnikova: Do you know how the inhabitants become human rights activists, which makes people abandon the usual life structure and get involved in the fight against the system and bureaucratic arbitrariness? Perhaps the answers to these questions are found in the history of one family from the Nizhny Novgorod region.
In the Radio Studio, Freedom is Valery and Vladimir Manzhiev .
Valery was engaged in agriculture, Vladimir until recently worked in the police. Now they go to the courts and offices, seeking to hold accountable those who are considered guilty of their misfortunes, and simultaneously help people who suffered from corrupt officials. The whole story began with an article in the Arzamas city newspaper, which was called "a meat mafia is operating in Arzamas." What happened, and why are you now forced to contact journalists?
I used to think that if a person is fighting for the truth, he should always win. But this is an erroneous opinion
Valery Manzhiev: I used to think that corruption is simple: if a person is fighting for the truth, he should always win. But this is an erroneous opinion. If I knew that my family would be like that, I would never have done this - let these bastards who behave ugly, live ugly, steal. There is all evidence, but the prosecutor's office hid all the facts.
And this happened. I sold meat in the markets of the city of Arzamas - both my products, and partially purchased. My wife and I have been doing this for more than 15 years. Until the 1990s they worked on a collective farm, growing cattle, always in the leaders. And in the 90s they became speculators, began to purchase and sell meat. Then I wanted to do this myself, built a stone farm, started piglets. Initially, I had 306 goals. At first I sowed a spring barley for food, then I began to plant potatoes.
So they did it until trouble happened. This man is headed by the Main Directorate of the Veterinary Control of the city of Arzamas, the Gosvetnadzor of the Arzamas district, he is still a local spill deputy, and we live with him in the same village. He was a newcomer, he arrived from somewhere, he was set by a doctor, at first simple, but then he rose to the main one. And the whole business went through it. I began to import cattle, and in one holiday month I brought a lot of livestock - 500 goals. They counted in the magazine how many carcasses I branded, and he immediately forbade me to brand. The veterinarian went out and said: "You are forbidden to brand, first go to the boss, he is waiting for you to talk." I realized that I had to pay. The wife went to the office, gave him a bribe. He asked: "How much?" She says: "Twenty." And he in her face with this pack ...
Maryana Torocheshnikova: Do you understand that now you are actually reporting a crime - you have a bribe? As far as I understand, there were no sentences about this, there was no investigation either.
He asked: "How much?" She says: "Twenty." And he is in her face with this pack
Valery Manzhiev: It was not.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: And here, as they say, your word is against the word of this person.
Valery Manzhiev: Yes. And this person then sued me. I began to complain around, when it was already impossible to work, they blocked us everything. I wrote to the prosecutor’s office, first turned to the OEP, and kind people began to help, whom his chaos also touched. A lot of people are angry with him, to whom he interferes with working, and even his veterinarians who work in rural areas, he did not pay for three years to work in the village in monetary terms, and the money from the budget was transferred monthly (the opera in the OPEP told me). People who did not receive money made him complaints. And now the person who told me this was cursing for three years, and yet, in the end, he gave him money in three years and said: "Write a statement of your own free will." And this doctor quit.
The OPEP employees went to his house, interviewed him, and I was there. He told everything, said that they even force employees to write applications for financial assistance, but this money is carried to him in the office after the box office. Here the man wrote: “In connection with life difficulties, I ask you to give me material assistance in the amount ...” He voiced the amount himself. The employee writes this, receives money at the checkout and carries to him in the office.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: And all this was checked by the department for combating economic crimes.
Valery Manzhiev: Yes, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia in the city of Arzamas.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: And it turned out that facts with the non -payment of money to the veterinarians that you then reported?
Valery Manzhiev: This is an interesting story! The prosecutor's office of the city of Arzamas checks everything and writes to me that everything under the law, a monetary allowance for work in the village was not paid due to the fact that the alleged village somehow illegally passed into the status of the village. But it did not cross for three years. At first, of course, they wrote stupidity. And I immediately went to Moscow, began to write to the Prosecutor General’s Office, and they already wrote to me that, yes, these cash payments were suspended illegally. But this was all over again, and I started to complain again, I just wanted to stop a person, because such people can not work at such enterprises, because he controls the entire food block.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: But this is your evaluative opinion.
It was already impossible to work, we all blocked
Vladimir Manzhiev: The General Prosecutor's Office found that the money had been held illegally for three years.
Valery Manzhiev: And from 2013 to 2015, all these litigations went. I complained - they unsubscribed, I complained - they unsubscribed. But I was also helping that the General Prosecutor's Office of Russia still stood up for me. The Arzamas prosecutor’s office unsubscribes, everything is covered, and the Russian prosecutor’s office writes: “They do not agree with the decision of the prosecutor's office of the city of Arzamas.”
Maryana Torocheshnikova: And the investigators intervened in this story? The prosecutors themselves do not conduct criminal cases ...
Vladimir Manzhiev: The OPEP made cunningly. They conducted an audit, sent documents to the Investigative Committee for the city of Arzamas and the Arzamas district, and then they had already made an audit and stupidly did the refusal.
Valery Manzhiev: There were six refusal materials from the Investigative Committee. But in the Investigative Committee, the case was not so simple. We sought it, fired, but a dead end, a continuous impasse!
And we cannot work. I no longer began to go to the city, I began to sell only in my village, where we were known: we own the premises, refrigerators are set, everything is as it should. I only conquer the goods - I have a check. And it begins - Rosselkhoznadzor, Rospotrebnadzor, SES, the prosecutor's office, even the main prosecutor himself came to me as a natural bandit!
Maryana Torocheshnikova: This is your evaluative opinion.
Valery Manzhiev: And what is the assessment opinion? He immediately began to yell: "Now I’ll call riot police!" I say: "At least call the hormone! What have I broken?" - "On you anonymous." I say: "How much can this continue?" And they also went to me, checked, fined for everything. The temperature is not the same in the refrigerator, something else ... it came to the point that a lot of letters accumulated in the mail - from the prosecutor’s office, even this doctor wrote to the FSB. He cooled anonymous with our local doctor.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: Well, this is your opinion.
The General Prosecutor's Office of Russia still stood up for me
Valery Manzhiev: But there is no one else! The anonymous was with such a surname that in the village we have no such, or rather, there is a surname, but the initials are different. And the postman began to say to everyone with such a surname: "Take your letters!" And everyone tells her: "Yes, we did not write! What to write on such good people? They trade cheaper than in the city, it is always fresh." And my wife somehow went to the mail, and the postman said to her: "She asked everyone, no one wrote. What to do with these letters?" The spouse says: "And you will call the prosecutor’s office, ask what to do with them."
Valery Manzhiev
She did so, and the prosecutor said to her: "You can burn them, they are all without notice." And that’s all to end. But I just couldn’t live like that, even if they don’t let me earn money! You need to somehow defend yourself!
Then he sued me. Before me, he sued with another businessman, extorted a million from him.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: Does the person you are talking about have a name?
Valery Manzhiev: Vladimir Ivanovich Loparev, head of the GVU of the city of Arzamas. I already began to complain about him and the prosecutor's office. In 2015, I wrote complaints every day, found compromising documents, sent them to the prosecutor’s office, my son even brought a video there. And the prosecutor's office went to my son.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: Vladimir, and how were you involved in this story?
Vladimir Manzhiev: Since 2002, I have served in the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs in the city of Arzamas. He began with the precinct and for good results in 2004 was transferred to a criminal investigation department. Initially, I did not know about this situation. And when I was already working on a criminal investigation department, when my parents began to write a statement to the prosecutor’s office for a citizen of Loparev, to the Investigative Committee, in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, no one wanted to work in relation to this official. He was also a deputy of the Zemstvo Assembly of the 16th District, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs tried to drop everything into the Investigative Committee or the prosecutor's office. The prosecutor's office and the Investigative Committee were taken away.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: And you could not come to your colleagues and say: "Guys, help me! My father is out of my father ..."
Vladimir Manzhiev: When he turned to the OEP, I, of course, suggested that they could get information to attract a given person. There, his deputy was signed by his signature, and it was all the same, they simply wrote the refusal to employees of the OEP: he signed this.
Valery Manzhiev: Even the examination was not appointed! But the most important thing: when I provided an act of burning accounting strict reporting, they apparently already stole the money to the right and left ...
Maryana Torocheshnikova: You think so ...
We went to me, checked, fined for everything. The temperature is not the same in the refrigerator, something else is wrong
Valery Manzhiev: Yes, this is proved!
Maryana Torocheshnikova: But there is no sentence.
Valery Manzhiev: There is no verdict, but there is an act - in 2013, it was given to me by the OPEPOVEC and said: "Uncle Valera, I feel sorry for you, in the future it may come in handy." This act, signed by the revision commission, says the burning of all accounting strict reporting for 2013. And there they made a seizure, there was an arrest of accounting documents, and they did not find these documents. And when he, Oevpovets, made an official request, Loparev presented this act of burning.
With all this mud I reached Ivan Mikhailovich Shaev, who then worked with the head of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Nizhny Novgorod Region, we were sitting at the table, I told him everything, and he said: "Dad, do not worry, everything will be fine, we’ll figure it out." Immediately invited the Ovovites from the fifth department ... But I came to Arzamas and the next day I found out that they were taken away and transferred to the Investigative Committee. And the Investigative Committee has six refusal materials, and I can not achieve anything. Looks like he has strong friends there ...
Then he sued me for slander. Three weeks before me, he sued with a businessman, from whom he was exhausted a million rubles to open a slaughter workshop on meat. You see, in the villages, in small cities, scored people. He needed to run to the police, he would have been given the money of money, and this man would have been sitting for a long time, and he thought, like me, to find the truth and ran to the Nizhny to the head of the State Elubic Eval Committee, wrote a statement there. And Loparev immediately sued him.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: Do I understand correctly that there is no reason to initiate slander and demand compensation if a person complains to law enforcement agencies? This is not a defamatory information.
Vladimir Manzhiev: I also think that it is not. And he served for the fact that he was slandered, everywhere they wrote. He naturally lost the court, his father did not even hire a lawyer.
Valery Manzhiev: Yes, I won the whole process without a lawyer and in court proved that before that he "roofed" that we worked together.
Vladimir Manzhiev: All this was recorded in the court decision!
Without a lawyer, I myself won the whole process and in court proved that before that he "roofed" me
Valery Manzhiev: And after that he immediately fell silent, and I decided that I would begin to live and work. But it is still impossible to work - everything is ongoing checks, commissions ... In 2015, the son comes home from work and says: "Dad, here you write, complain, and the boss said to me:" Say thanks to your parents "..."
Vladimir Manzhiev: These are my parents, I cannot turn away from them. Through my sources, I collected certain information, found a witness who showed me where the intestines are exported (in the forest, perhaps even a protected area). This is called “biological waste”, and the Criminal Code has an article on which punishment is provided for this. Biological waste should be burned, and they carried all this into the forest and buried. I found a witness, he showed it to me, I photographed it on the video, and even posted it in Yetub.
I brought this video to the prosecutor's office of the city of Arzamas on a USB flash drive: they also conduct an audit against a person who is a boss, especially since many complain about him. Here is a video, interview the village - and they will tell you who carries there. They watched the video, and that’s it. Is this, it turns out that any boss can violate the law in our country, and that’s all - the OEP, the Investigative Committee, the prosecutor's office - will they close their eyes to this? This is nonsense - the operas brought evidence, found a witness, and they do not want to do anything!
Then his father wrote a complaint to the General Prosecutor's Office that they brought a video ... And the next day, the same people who carried the guts were beaten there the next day. I did not go further, I thought that they themselves would figure it out, and then the prosecutor simply said: "No one brought us any video." There is a witness, it can be interviewed, and the prosecutor closed his eyes on this - this is a crime!
There is a witness, it can be interviewed, and the prosecutor closed his eyes on this - this is a crime!
And since that time they began to look at and say at me: “Your father writes ...” I answer: “He has my own opinion, I have my own, and I do not delve into what he writes there.” They began to put pressure on me, the boss says: "Your parents have already tortured. What are they writing? Everywhere refused, nothing confirmed ..."
And I have already worked in the Main Directorate in the sixth department, to combat organized crime. I oversaw Diveevo, Voznesensk, Pervomaisk, we were engaged in organized criminal groups. I was constantly traveling, I could even say, and there was no something in Arzamas.
And now, the Ministry of Internal Affairs once again pass certification abbreviations of employees, and I am adjusted for reduction. At that time, I was an operative for particularly important matters. Prior to this, I revealed the registered murder of a citizen of Sultanov, an entrepreneur from Arzamas, who could not disclose two and a half years. Such crimes, according to Russian statistics, are disclosed every 15 years.
Maryana Torocheshnikova: You were probably raised in the rank?
Vladimir Manzhiev: No. For the disclosure of this crime, the leadership of the headwalk, several people, received titles and rewards, but they did not give me anything. And after all, I revealed not one, I have a lot of serious crimes. But for some reason they decided to reduce me. And it became so offensive to me! I began to go to the leadership: "What kind of business?" My boss replies: "Well, this is how the header decided ..." Moreover, they take new employees, but they reduce me.
And one person from the sixth department told me: "You were brought under reduction due to the fact that your parents complain to the prosecutor’s office, the Investigative Committee, they have already begun to complain about the prosecutor's office of the Nizhny Novgorod region ..."
Maryana Torocheshnikova: Nevertheless, you were not reduced then, but transferred to another department.
They take new employees, and they reduce me
Vladimir Manzhiev: Yes, thanks to parents.
Valery Manzhiev: He was already awarded the "runner", an order to reduce. He came home, almost crying. I also felt offended, and my wife and I rushed to Moscow. You understand, life is broken! Here we have a daughter with my husband, son, I, three families - everything is broken! In Moscow, I went to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, where the reception of citizens. The girl came across good, you see, regretted it. And I just sobbed there, I say: "Well, what should we do? I admired my son for 15 years, I was proud of it ..."
He just doesn’t tell everything, but he revealed loud crimes. The head of the drug control of the city of Sarov, a closed, secret, strategic city, transported drugs through the Communist Party. And the son closed this whole enterprise! And there are a lot of such high -profile affairs. And he was reduced.
And I say to this girl: "I will not leave, I will die here on the porch, until I achieve a significant answer." She says to me: “Okay, I will write you for an appointment - after a week and a half, the first deputy chief of the Children's Council, Major General Grishin, will accept.” And I got to the reception (we still waited a week and a half, lived in the car).
In general, when we came to look for these ends, we lived in the car for three months. And then they went to the Duma, Zhirinovsky helped - he gave five thousand rubles so as not to starve. And when we waited for this meeting with Major General, I told him about the merits of my son: in 15 years not a single reprimand, complaints, and here because of my complaints ... Why should a person suffer? У него семья, как раз в то время только родился третий ребенок, ипотека, и его ни за что выгоняют с работы! Он выслушал меня и сказал: "Ладно, отец, если это правда, что люди получили правительственные награды за преступление, которое раскрыл твой сын, я тебе гарантирую, что твой сын останется в МВД".
Когда мы приехали искать эти концы, мы месяца три прожили в машине
Он сдержал свое слово, в понедельник поехал в Нижний и, видать, там разобрался. Он нам позвонил, мы с супругой ездили в Нижний, встречались с ним, и он сказал: "Ваш сын будет работать в МВД, но мы переведем его в уголовный розыск Арзамаса". Ну, хоть так дайте человеку доработать до пенсии. Но его там сразу начали мутузить, выговор за выговором...
Владимир Манжиев: Меня перевели в Арзамас, и я начал заниматься оперативной работой. В первый день я пришел на работу, и мне в кабинете, в присутствии всех сотрудников уголовного розыска начальник сказал: "А ты что к нам перевелся? Тут никто не хочет с тобой работать". Меня одного поставили на линию НОН (незаконный оборот наркотиков), то есть я один должен был ездить за жуликами, искать их. Как я могу один поймать наркомана? Руководство запрещало сотрудникам ездить со мной. Меня поставили в группу, там было два человека, но они сидели в отдельном кабинете и не объясняли мне, как нужно вести дела. Естественно, я исполнял свои обязанности и раскрывал преступления, как получалось. И каждый день начальники мне говорили: "Уходи! Переведись отсюда. Что ты сюда приперся?" Я говорю: "Это не мое решение, а начальника полиции".
Марьяна Торочешникова: А как вы занялись сбором информации о ваших коллегах и представителях администрации?
Владимир Манжиев: Когда я работал в Управлении шестого отдела, у нас были и коррупционные направления, и организованные преступные группы, скапливалась информация и по сотрудникам. Мы объединили информацию с начальником Наркоконтроля, у которого были сведения в отношении сотрудников МВД по городу Арзамасу. Мы не борцы с коррупцией, но проходила информация, что сотрудники занимаются преступлениями. И когда я пришел в МВД России по городу Арзамасу, мне опротивело это давление, у меня же все-таки есть честь, достоинство офицера.
Владимир Манжиев
И вот в сентябре 2016 года начальник Наркоконотроля проводит задержания. Забегает СОБР и стоит на всех этажах с автоматами, никому не дают ни сходить в туалет, ни разговаривать по телефону, - в общем, взяли в плен. Это Нарконтроль, там участвовали еще ФСБ и Следственный комитет. И впоследствии, в сентябре, были задержаны двое сотрудников уголовного розыска.
Марьяна Торочешникова: И вы тогда стали обобщать информацию о задержаниях, о привлечении к ответственности этих сотрудников. У меня тут есть бумага о работе УМВД по городу Арзамасу на 2016 год, и здесь указано 32 эпизода преступной деятельности сотрудников этого отделения полиции. Это переросло в какое-то уголовное дело?
Мне опротивело это давление, у меня же все-таки есть честь, достоинство офицера
Владимир Манжиев: Нет, а для меня стало только хуже. Была достоверная информация и от Наркоконтроля, и от нас. Я ее собрал и направил в ГУСБ РФ, где начальник Александр Иванович Макаров.
Марьяна Торочешникова: И тут же приехала проверка, возбудили кучу уголовных дел, и всех злостных нарушителей поувольняли?
Владимир Манжиев: Нет, ничего не возбудили, никого не поувольняли. Я приехал к начальнику ГУСБ, он прочитал эту бумагу, выслушал меня и говорит: "Все, езжай к одному из сотрудников, они тебе помогут. Я приехал в Москве в отделение ГУСБ и начал беседовать с полковником. Они говорят: "Ты можешь нам по каждому факту предоставить доказательства?" Я отвечаю: "Это не моя работа! Моя работа - вам доложить. Разберитесь и накажите виновных!" Я же оперативник, а не ГУСБэшник. У меня нет полномочий, чтобы ходить и выяснять, искать свидетелей.
Меня даже немного запугивали, говорили: "Иван Михайлович такой человек... У него такого и быть не может!" А я даже зачитал им последние нарушения, когда сотрудники совершили грабеж в городе Арзамасе - отняли у таксиста машину.
Потом они направили Сергея Викторовича Касаткина в Арзамас, он приехал, показал эту бумагу нашему руководству: вот, смотрите, такой-то сотрудник привез это все на вас, почитайте... Они его там два-три дня водили в ресторан, а потом он пришел ко мне. Я ему говорю: "Вы, согласно закону, не имели права разглашать эти сведения". - "Ну, и что, все равно узнали бы..." - "Да, потом узнали бы, а сейчас вы еще ничего не провели, а им уже рассказали". Он взял с меня объяснения и уехал, и на этом проверка была закончена.
Марьяна Торочешникова: Но вы уже настроили против себя всех сотрудников.
Меня начали таскать по кабинетам: ты такой-сякой, ты что там наплел... А с ними ничего не произошло: все как сидели, так и сидят
Владимир Манжиев: Да. И через неделю после того, как этот человек уехал, меня начали таскать по кабинетам: ты такой-сякой, ты что там наплел... А с ними ничего не произошло: все как сидели, так и сидят.
Марьяна Торочешникова: Но в итоге эта информация дошла до министра внутренних дел, и к нему на прием...
Владимир Манжиев: …попали мои родители. Это письмо было лично показано Владимиру Александровичу Колокольцеву, который прочитал каждое слово и дал поручение - направить в Нижегородскую область инспекторскую проверку в лице Эдуарда Юрьевича Соболя.
В декабре приехала настоящая проверка. 26 декабря меня по поручению министра вызвали в Нижний. Приходит за мной подполковник: "Пойдемте". Меня подводят к кабинету, и на кабинете написано: "Начальник инспекторской проверки Соболь Эдуард Юрьевич, генерал-майор". И он мне сразу говорит: "Откуда у вас столько информации?" Я отвечаю: "Вы понимаете, сколько я служил, где я служил..." Он говорит: "Возник очень сильный резонанс, мы проверяем каждый факт, и что-то уже подтверждается. Мы разберемся. Что вы хотите?" Я говорю: "Я хочу, чтобы разобрались по-честному, по-офицерски, и чтобы все понесли наказание". Он приказал поднять все дела, приказы, сразу мне рассказал, кто не должен работать, кого накажут...
Тем не менее, никого не наказали, и, как только проверка уехала, 30 декабря мне сразу прилетело "неполное служебное соответствие". Подставили и наказали: одно НСС, потом второе НСС - и "до свидания, мы тебя увольняем".
Марьяна Торочешникова: Вся эта история длится четыре года. Валерий, в каком состоянии сейчас находятся ваши дела по сравнению с тем, что было, когда вы только затеяли эту борьбу?
Валерий Манжиев: Жить надоело, больше нет никаких сил. Сфабриковали уголовное дело по моей супруге.
Владимир Манжиев: И меня тоже пытаются туда приклеить.
Жить надоело, больше нет никаких сил. Сфабриковали уголовное дело по моей супруге
Валерий Манжиев: Это незаконное уголовное дело. Мы наняли адвоката в Москве, и адвокат говорит, что это чисто гражданско-правовые отношения, но там возбудили уголовное дело. И сейчас идет такая война, вы даже не представляете! Но я буду ходить до конца, пока не подохну. У меня нет выхода. Не может же ложь всегда побеждать правду! На протяжении стольких лет покрываются явные преступления - так не должно быть! У нас же правовое государство и вроде бы неплохое, и люди нормальные, но почему-то не получается...
Владимир Манжиев: Я разочаровался в системе, в которой работал! Мне стыдно за эту систему, которая не может помочь простому гражданину, а помогает преступникам. Хотя президент говорит, что борьба с коррупцией на первом месте, дает поручения Бастрыкину, Чайке... Но вот простой человек обращается в прокуратуру, а отписка бумерангом возвращается домой. Это неправильно! Власти спрятались от народа и не хотят помочь.
Марьяна Торочешникова: Вот за вас вступился сам министр внутренних дел, а почему это не сработало?
Владимир Манжиев: А потому, что от него снова все скрыли! Вот когда арестовали сотрудников (начальника розыска и сотрудника ППС), они сидели с сентября 2016 года по декабрь, а в декабре начальнику, Емельянову, вручают "Почетный сотрудник МВД". Это как так? Это же у нас считается наивысшей наградой!
Я знаю, что проиграю суд в Арзамасе. Суд проводится в наших же стенах. И как это так - Следственный комитет области вел дело, а его отдали в Арзамас: нате, судите своих товарищей? How can it be? Тут же фальсифицируют преступления и тут же судят!
Валерий Манжиев: Ты не рассказал самое главное. После Соболя там многих поснимали, потом комиссия уехала, а через два месяца их всех восстановили, даже людей, которые имеют статьи. Deputy. начальника уголовного розыска, пьяный, в рабочее время на машине заезжает на детскую площадку, люди снимают его на видеокамеру, и его с треском выгоняют по статье! А после того, как проверка уехала, он устраивается на работу в Саров, а это закрытый ядерный центр. How is it possible?
Это такой российский Левиафан
Марьяна Торочешникова: Это такой российский Левиафан ...
Валерий Манжиев: Начальника ГУВД города Арзамаса убрали, когда была проверка, он два месяца сидел в тишине, болел, а потом его восстановили.
Владимир Манжиев: Решение Соболя было такое: Емельянов больше не будет служить в МВД. А почти через три месяца его ставят начальником в Дивеево. И Колокольцев просто не хочет этого видеть, или от него это все скрывают. И из-за этого в системе МВД бардак! По всей стране бардак! И если у нас в России все так и будет, я не знаю, как будут жить люди, ведь простому гражданину никто не может помочь.
Коррупция захлестнула всю Россию, вот и все! У Путина коррупция на первом месте: бороться, бороться... А как бороться, если никто не хочет бороться, если министр закрывает на это глаза, ему все равно?