When the rent turns into bondage

How not to overpay for utilities

Maryana Torocheshnikova: In the Radio Liberty program, a person has the right, we talk about how it should be according to the law and who violates the law.

The inhabitants of Karelia defended their right not to pay for electricity accounts for common house needs (ONE). People not only achieved recalculation - the courts recover overpayment in their favor for several years, fines under the law "On the Protection of Consumer Rights", compensation for non -pecuniary damage and legal costs. Let's watch the video.

Residents of Karelia defended their right not to pay for electricity accounts for common house needs

Correspondent: The trials between public utilities and tenants continued for many months. The owners of the apartments achieved not only recalculation, but also compensation for non -pecuniary damage. The system of payments for ONE devastated the wallets of the residents and seriously patted the nerves.

Victor Zelensky, lawyer: The situation was hopeless: people received large amounts, paid, but could not protect their rights.

Correspondent: Victor Zelensky was among those who represented the interests of the residents. Lawyers were able to prove to the court that in their former form the payment system for public needs was illegal.

Victor Zelensky: That is, all these losses, all the connected stores, all these homeless people who are registered but do not live - all this were forced to pay.

Correspondent: People had to pay all the light and all the water that the house spent in excess of the standard. The utilities took readings between the common house metering device and individual meters of the owners of the apartments, then the difference in the readings was distributed according to the receipts of the inhabitants of the house. As a result, the cargo one fell on the shoulders of the residents.

Roman Kabone, a resident of Petrozavodsk: Of course, it was like a deception - the fact that the entire resource was distributed between the residents, and all the losses that were in this house were also distributed between the residents. And in addition, in addition to what I spent on myself, I also paid for other residents who did not pay.

Correspondent: In the most vulnerable position were the tenants of the old houses, there the fee for ONE was hit all records. Accounts reached one and a half thousand rubles only for light. The payment system for the common needs of the house has become an instrument for pumping money from the owners of the apartments. Residents were obliged to pay bills with any digits, otherwise they were threatened with a shutdown of electricity.

Victor Zelensky: You can not turn off any other type of utility service: you can not turn off water or heat, and you can turn off electricity. Why do power supply organizations do not conclude an agreement with the management organization? Because as soon as they conclude an agreement with her, they will issue accounts of the management organization and wait for her to pay them. She did not pay them - they will not be able to turn off the house.

Correspondent: Lawyers tried to withdraw the tenants from under the blow. This was required to prove that the resource -supplying organization is obliged to directly contact the owners of apartments, but with management companies serving houses. In this case, the managing organization would have been financially responsible for all the resource spent over the standard. Residents, in turn, would receive accounts strictly according to the norm.

Victor Zelensky: And the standard is very small. That is, for example, a person paid one and a half thousand, and if a manager exposed him, he would have paid 40 rubles. The management organization is engaged in maintenance of common house property, it can somehow affect this value-to reduce, find illegally registered, illegal connections, and so on. The resource -supplying organization, accruing a fee for ONE, cannot affect the amount. And the manager can influence, but does not accrue.

And so it happened that the inhabitants could not understand - they turn to the managing organization, and they say: "We do not accrue", they turn to the resource -supplying organization, and they say: "We do not know, we do not serve." And this situation was until last year.

Lawyers were able to prove in the courts that the system of accrual was violated the rights of the owners of the apartments

Correspondent: Lawyers were able to prove in the courts that the system of accrual was violated by the rights of the owners of the apartments. In May of last year, by a decision of the Petrozavodsk City Court, the lawsuit of the city was recognized as illegal actions by Energocomfort Karelia, which collected a fee for ONE in Petrozavodsk. The court indicated that the company is not entitled to receive a fee for its services directly from the owners of premises in the house with its management organization or HOA, and this court decision granted residents the right to demand recalculation of payments for common house needs over the past three years. According to Energokomfort, the organization since August last year has stopped issuing accounts for ONE to residents of apartments. Since the beginning of this year, by the decision of the Russian government, ODN in the same form has been canceled and included in the fee for the maintenance and repair of the living quarters.

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Republic of Karelia, Petrozavodsk

Maryana Torocheshnikova: What to do if you do not agree with the cost of utilities, we speak with experts in the field of housing and communal services- Yuri Pavlenkov and Saule Berkkimbaeva .

Yuri Pavlenkov-CEO of the Non-Profit Partnership "Servywing Industry" , member of the Committee of the Chamber of Commerce of Russia in Entrepreneurship in the field of economics, real estate and housing and communal services, and the industry department of energy-saving technologies in the field of housing and communal services and the construction of business Russia.

Saule Berkkimbaeva is the co-founder and editor-in-chief of the Homeowners' Association magazine, the initiator and organizer of the All-Russian literary and art competition "My House is my care".

Yuri Pavlenkov: The situation in Petrozavodsk remarkably demonstrates the Czechard that the regulator created, having allocated common house needs into a separate category three to four years ago, and by no means not only for electricity, but also in warm and cold water, and other resources (except for gas). The regulator - the Ministry of Construction of the housing and communal services - tried to allocate these so -called expenses on ONE in a separate category (apparently, at the request of resource -supplying organizations) that were always in the structure of spending on the maintenance and repair of common property. I do not understand why the regulator needed so grotesquely, with such methodological flaws to build this system, immersing the whole country into these common -house problems. It was a methodological and strategic error. This system functioned for two years, overpaid giant amounts!

Maryana Torocheshnikova: How much could each family lose?

Yuri Pavlenkov: Where there was no desperate resistance, and people conscientiously tried to pay all the “Wishlist” of resource, and sometimes managing organizations, overpayment on average could be up to 30%. And in Izhevsk there were overpayments and twice.

Saule Berkkimbaeva: where the house has a really acting HOA, which professed at least five, or even seven years, where all the interaction has already been debugged, this problem has not been.

The management company must immediately pay for the resource -supplying organization everything that the common house meter showed

There are always and will be expenses for ONE ... There can be leaks, and everything is already repaired in the HOA, they have chic cranes, the pipes have ceased to be torn, they do not need emergency shows, they have no leaks. There is a separate crane and an article taken into account for irrigation of front gardens. And in any case, we calculate according to the common house counter, which stands at the entrance to the house. ONE - this is the difference between what our counter in the house showed, and the fact that all the owners in this house spent.

Any management company must immediately pay for the resource -supplying organization everything that the common house meter showed. But if the owners did not pay them something, then they still have one, they again scatter it for all the owners. But where there are an HOA, they simply do not have these problems, because most have already installed counters, moreover, ASKUE - automatic electric energy accounting systems have already been installed in most buildings. Even if all the apartments have such devices, one will still be: here you have taken the testimony on the 15th and sent to the management company, and I took off the 28th, and there is still a inconsistency. And on the 20th, the resource supplying organization must fully pay for the entire volume.

Yuri Pavlenkov: It was Odn who, provoked in such a terrible way from the federal level, made the managing organizations, the HOA, and the citizens themselves: how can we protect ourselves from such a robbery as much as possible? And we find only one remedy-finally we motivated people to a general installation of individual accounting devices.

Maryana Torocheshnikova: To you with the score, and you show the counter!

Yuri Pavlenkov: This is an absolute protection against any attacks.

Maryana Torocheshnikova: And who decides that, for example, electricity will cost so many rubles per kilowatts, and water-so many rubles per cubic meter?

Yuri Pavlenkov: From 2001 to 2015, with 245 percent increase in inflation in the country as a whole, an outducent increase in the cost of heating occurs-900%, and hydraulic deviations and drainage, the CVS-800%. If two years ago we did this somehow carefully, today we are already saying confidently, our main regulator Artemyev (FAS) recognizes it.

Maryana Torocheshnikova: What happened that heating and hot water began to cost 800-900% more?

From 2001 to 2015, with 245 percent growth in inflation in the country, an outducent increase in the cost of heating occurs-900%, and water-800%

Yuri Pavlenkov: Previously, the tariff’s body itself was insignificant: for example, when we started growth, the total quarter-paying check was 1,400-1500, and today we have already 5000-7000 rubles. In the Moscow region, an average two -room apartment (54 meters) costs 8,000 rubles (this is until the moment when people put the counters). Now the cost has decreased a little - to 6,000 rubles. But still she is prohibitive!

Yuri Pavlenkov

There are some maximum restrictions established at the federal level. Previously, it was the FST - the Federal Tariff Service, and today this function is transferred to the FAS. And so for a year and a half they are trying to win and stop the current political trend of this leading growth. Within the overall border allotted by federal legislation, regions for each type of tariffs, for each type of resources, appointed their borders. They could not break out of the limit values established at the federal level, but in some municipalities there were special conditions for the functioning of resources, and they could go beyond these limits.

Saule Berkkimbaeva: Previously, the tariff was determined by the regional energy commission, each region had its own, and resource -supplying organizations jointly proved on this commission why they are taking such a tariff. But since there was a long growth, the government decided that it would be more rigid to oversee this, and transferred it to the FAS, but even there they could not stop this growth.

Yuri Pavlenkov: The resource -to -resource has always substantiated such a leading inflation by the fact that there is supposedly there is a great need to repair and restore rapidly breaking infrastructure. This is not quite so at the same time.

Saule Berkkimbaeva: This refers to the general infrastructure, a network that is suitable for each apartment building.

Yuri Pavlenkov: Not only the network, but also the generation itself, the network infrastructure. Of course, we had losses in the intra -quarter transmission of heating networks, and in the houses themselves. All these aggregate losses, one way or another, fit into the tariff for each of these resources (except for gas). There are losses in the water, in heat, in electricity. Tariffs are growing ahead of schedule precisely because the infrastructure is rapidly dilapidated for us - this is the main explanation.

We can boast of the achievement of our ally in the Perm Territory. The Perm Standard HOA Association conducted system studies of the T-PLUS heat supply tariff in Perm, revealed tremendous discrepancies between what the manufacturer of the resource asks for the tariff, and what they presented to the tariff statement. They found a tremendous number of non -core expenses and were able to achieve the abolition of this tariff size. Thus, they reduced the tariff by 30%. And as a result, some characters from T-Plus and the former KS-Holding have recently been planted.

Maryana Torocheshnikova: In addition to the fee for housing and communal services, a fee for the maintenance of the house in proper condition, minor repair of the building and communication systems, is charged monthly. Tariffs for these services are set at a regular meeting of homeowners, but what if the owner of most apartments in the house is the developer?

207 rubles per cubic meter of cold water - such fabulous prices have to be paid to residents of the Andersen complex

Correspondent: 207 rubles per cubic meter of cold water - such fabulous prices have to be paid to residents of the Andersen complex. On average, the owner of a two -room apartment gives 8,000 rubles per month for utilities. You have to pay even for the rain and for watering the lawn in winter.

Natalia Matykina, a resident of the Andersen residential complex: from a one -room apartment, this is about 500 rubles a month only for the maintenance of the storm in our residential complex.

Elena Spekht, a resident of the Andersen residential complex: for example, in winter, in January, February, Marta, we added a string of "watering of the territory". What can be watering the territory in thirty -degree frost?

Correspondent: six months ago, the developer "Desna Land" transferred the management of the territory and houses of the Company Service company-it was registered at about the same time when the first residents arrived in Andresen. They were promised that housing and communal services will cost no more than in Moscow. But soon the management company doubled tariffs. The reason was not explained. Many residents refused to pay at new prices.

Natalia Matykina: Now this difference that we did not pay extra is our debt of the management company. And we practice spontaneous power outages for debt.

Elena Spekht: in winter, in thirty -degree frost, the whole village was simply disconnected from electricity. We called with MOESK, and we were replied that the management company has a large debt to transfer money.

Correspondent: The management company says prices have risen due to changes in the legislation. Now residents must pay for all expenses associated with the maintenance of the territory. True, the roof in the houses does not stop this from this.

In winter, in thirty -degree frost, the whole village was simply disconnected from electricity

Elena Spekht: We live on the third floor, and this year it was raining in the summer, and we have a leak - both in the apartment and in the entrance. Last year it was the same, the management company came, they were divided on the roof and said that this would not happen again.

Correspondent: go into the territory of the complex, dilute the fire by the local river and leave the garbage anyone. For a month now there is no protection, although the developer has been advertising a closed territory. One of the main claims of the inhabitants is an abandoned embankment, for which no one takes care of. The management company claims that this is not included in its duties.

Irina Lagutina, lawyer of the Criminal Code "Comprehensive Service": the land plot is separate, he belongs to the owner-in my opinion, the developer. Yes, we contain him so that there is where to take a walk, as the developer promised, but in any case, the right of the developer is to use it independently until the fence and enclose it from the inhabitants there.

Correspondent: In general, the developer does not fulfill many of his promises. So, three multi -storey buildings are already being built in the low -rise village, but the kindergarten, which residents are waiting for, is ready only by 2%.

A resident of the Andersen residential complex: the embankment has not been completed, playgrounds - nothing good has been done. Everything is abandoned. We were promised that instead of this house there would be a good shopping and entertainment complex ...

Correspondent: neither the developer nor the management company has been responding to the complaints of residents. And the promised fairy tale remains only on advertisements.

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Russia, Moscow

Maryana Torocheshnikova: In addition to the fee for housing and communal services services, a fee for common house needs, on maintenance and repairs is also charged monthly from the owners of apartments, and either the FAS or the state no longer affect these tariffs, the owners themselves establish this. So why can't the owners set their own acceptable payments?

Saule Berkkimbaeva: This is no longer utility, but housing services. Of course, housing owners with complete transparency of the necessary services discuss them among themselves and can abandon certain types of services.

For five years, the managing organization on behalf of the owners can sue with the developer so that he eliminates construction defects

In this case, the problem is that the complex is new, and the roof flows. Did the management company sue with the developer? Ведь есть пять лет гарантийного срока, в течение которого управляющая организация от имени собственников может судиться с застройщиком, чтобы он устранил все дефекты строительства.

Марьяна Торочешникова: Очень часто бывает так, что застройщик и управляющая компания – это одно лицо, и там очень сложно на что-то повлиять.

Юрий Павленков: Фундаментальная институциональная проблема сегодня связана не только с новыми жилыми комплексами, но и с существующей застройкой, с тем, что многоквартирный дом до сих пор не стал самостоятельным, законченным объектом жилой недвижимости. What does it mean? Земельный участок многоквартирного дома или жилого комплекса поставлен на кадастровый учет, общее имущество сформировано надлежащим образом, описано, проинвентаризировано, зарегистрировано в реестре собственников и передано, и собственники согласились это имущество в новом виде взять себе на обслуживание и управление. Только когда проведены все эти процедуры, они становятся полноценными собственниками и владельцами этого комплекса. И тогда они уже могут повлиять на стоимость услуг, сделать экономические расчеты.

Марьяна Торочешникова: Насколько сложен этот путь?

Сауле Беркимбаева: Нужно правильно оформить весь земельно-имущественный комплекс под своим многоквартирным домом. Я помню, это началось в 2008-2009 годах, и первый, кто оформил свой дом так, это был покойный Починок. И вообще, одними из первых были элитные дома в центре Москвы – их начали оформлять. Помню, что этим вопросом была серьезно озабочена депутат Госдумы, космонавт Савицкая. И до недавнего времени таких домов даже в Москве было всего одиннадцать, собственники уже тогда понимали, какова стоимость их жилья, ведь это стоимость не самой квартиры, а именно земельно-имущественного комплекса. Это дом вместе с землей.

Сауле Беркимбаева

Юрий Павленков: Как обычному человеку защититься от этих жилищно-коммунальных поборов? Первое – безусловно, настаивать на том, чтобы дом с правовой точки зрения представлял собой завершенный комплекс. Надо добиваться оформления земли, описания общего имущества, регистрации прав на это общее имущество.

Марьяна Торочешникова: Создавать ТСЖ?

Юрий Павленков: Не обязательно. Для этого нужно просто инициировать общим собранием собственников оформление своего жилищного комплекса как единого целого. Сегодня мы договорились с Игорем Майдановым (это руководитель нашего Московского росреестра, Национальной кадастровой палаты) и с большим Росреестром, что жилые комплексы будут обладать самостоятельными правами.

Второе: конечно, жителям нужно настаивать на том, чтобы дом был полностью оснащен приборами учета, желательно – с автоматизированной передачей данных.

Жителям нужно настаивать на том, чтобы дом был полностью оснащен приборами учета

И третий способ защиты. Поскольку в наших платежках две трети – это стоимость поборов так называемых ресурсников, на это мы можем влиять только политически. Никаких других мер сдерживания нет. Вот сейчас правительство опять приняло решение о повышении акциза на топливо. Мы пять лет говорим, что эти акцизы на топливо сейчас лягут абсолютно во все: в стоимость всех товаров, работ и услуг, в том числе и жилищно-коммунальных. Нет, опять!

Они ввели новую плату – кадастровый налог на недвижимость, "на воздух", ввели взнос на капитальный ремонт, поборы, но в Москве идеально не отремонтирован ни один дом. Что мы с вами оплачиваем? И все это принимается без участия граждан. Остановить рост тарифов можно только политическими средствами!

Марьяна Торочешникова: С неплательщиками управляющие компании борются, как умеют: вывешивают списки должников за коммунальные услуги на всеобщее обозрение, ставят заглушки на воду и даже отключают в их квартирах электричество.

Диктор: Что делать, если вам отключили свет или перерезали электрические провода за долги по другим коммунальным услугам? Вызовите полицию, скажите, что хулиганы перерезали провода в щитке, испортили общее имущество, тем самым поставив под угрозу безопасность жильцов. Чтобы доказать, что за электроэнергию вы платили вовремя, приготовьте свои оплаченные квитанции.

Вызовите представителей отдела охраны порядка вашего района. Позвоните в Службу безопасности Мосэнергосбыта. Вы также можете написать жалобу в их клиентский отдел с требованием проверить работу вашей управляющей компании. Позвоните в диспетчерскую ОДС и вызовите электрика, так как испорчено общее имущество электроснабжения (щиток), за которое управляющая компания несет персональную ответственность. Запишите номер заявки и фамилию диспетчера. Обязательно сфотографируйте или снимите на видео поврежденный щиток, соберите соседей, составьте и подпишите совместный акт комплексного обследования поврежденного общего имущества и электроснабжения.

Если вам отключили свет или перерезали провода за долги по другим коммунальным услугам, вызовите полицию

Позже представители управляющей компании и отдела правопорядка также должны будут подписать этот акт. Копию акта с фото и видео направьте в Государственную жилищную инспекцию, в прокуратуру, в ОВД с требованием проверки деятельности управляющей компании на предмет исполнения договора по обеспечению безопасных и благоприятных условий проживания.

Марьяна Торочешникова: Чем больше людей знают о том, что их права нарушены, тем больше шансов решить проблему! Присылайте свои видео с пометкой #ПередайтеПутину, и мы покажем их в эфире.

Виктория Шаляпина, Воронеж: Здравствуйте, уважаемый Владимир Владимирович! Скажите, когда вы решите вопрос в сфере ЖКХ, а конкретно – ТСЖ? Нам бы хотелось, чтобы эта система, наконец, уже стала более прозрачной, чтобы мы могли легко переизбирать председателей ТСЖ, а не находиться у них в заложниках, как в тюрьме, в своей же квартире. Получается, что не сфера ЖКХ, не ТСЖ для нас, а мы для них, для того чтобы они собирали с нас деньги. У них все схвачено, все покрывается на государственном уровне, у них везде есть связи, рычаги управления нами.

Мы платим им деньги, за что – неизвестно. Мы не видим ремонта, не можем на них повлиять. Это просто мафия на государственном уровне, государственный терроризм и геноцид против нашего народа! Получается, что мы не боимся бороться с терроризмом в Сирии, но с терроризмом, выращенным в нашем собственном государстве, которое терроризирует жителей, людей, находящихся уже просто на грани, – с этим мы боимся бороться. Как долго это будет продолжаться?

Анна Хисматуллина, Белорецк: Здравствуйте, уважаемый президент Владимир Владимирович Путин! Я журналист газеты "Живи ярко" в городе Белорецк (республика Башкортостан). В этом году нашему городу исполняется 255 лет – этот праздник мы отмечаем наряду с Днем металлурга.

Но, несмотря на такую красивую дату, здесь есть серьезные проблемы. Одной из таких проблем является игнорирование прав и свобод наших горожан в области жилищно-коммунального хозяйства. Уже на протяжении десяти месяцев бывшая управляющая компания игнорирует законный выбор жильцов и препятствует работе новой управляющей компании. На жильцов осуществляется информационная атака: клевета, дезинформация, угрозы. Люди уже устали отстаивать свои права. Сотрудники бывшей управляющей компании заявили жильцам, что они как управляли ими, так и будут управлять, и им все равно, то есть им наплевать на решение собственников.

Такое ощущение, что эту систему облепили паразиты, и запущен процесс разложения

Неужели в Белорецке не работают российские законы? Неужели жилищная система в нашем городе настолько коррумпирована? Такое ощущение, что эту систему облепили паразиты, и запущен процесс разложения. Собственники неоднократно обращались за помощью в полицию, в прокуратуру, в Госкомитет, в суд республики Башкортостан, но в ответ получали только отписки. Собственники обращаются к вам с просьбой о защите их прав и свобод! Help!

Василий Барышев, пенсионер: Я говорю президенту Путину: Владимир Владимирович, прекрати этот беспредел! Принесли очередную вот такую бумажку – взнос на капитальный ремонт общего имущества многоквартирного дома. Никаких договоров нет, и на каком основании они рассылают эти бумаги, неизвестно. Ссылаются на постановление правительства, но правительство сегодня одно, завтра другое – и что? Я должен отдавать свои последние пенсионные копейки неизвестно кому, каким-то мошенникам?

Владимир Владимирович, прекрати этот беспредел!

Вот, смотрите, люди, как над нами измываются! Назначают себе миллионные оклады в месяц за счет нас, и не видно, чтобы хоть кого-то посадили за мошенничество. Это что же такое творится?! Когда прекратится это издевательство над нами?! Призываю правительство России прекратить беспредел со стороны этих так называемых фондов!

"Человек имеет право" – программа, в которой мы рассказываем ваши истории. В видеоверсии их еще больше.