"I don't believe the court"

On October 30, on the day of memory of the victims of political repressions, the Committee of Civil Initiatives and the Memory Fund, together with the Gulag Museum, is launched by the Stalin Order project. A line from the famous Soviet song is made in the name. But the idea of the project is not at all to tell about the "leader and the teacher", but to recall that the country has paid for the "effectiveness" of Stalin by millions of lives and crippled destinies. On the project’s website there will be videos of our contemporaries - famous artists, writers, directors. This is their view of history and the present.

The director and writer, the artistic director of the theater "School of the Modern Play" , Joseph Raichelgauz shares children's memories of how his Greek neighbor was leading away in the post-war Odessa.

- In the project "Stalin gave an order" you tell a story that is associated with the Stalinist resettlement of peoples. Today we see how in Crimea they treat the Crimean Tatars, which Stalin had already evicted once and who had fought for several decades for returning to their native land. In addition, the case is no longer limited to conversations about the "effective manager", but monuments of Stalin are erected. How do you feel about this?

- I am very definitely related to Stalin, although I am named in his honor. I was named in honor of my grandfather, whose name was Joseph, but nevertheless my parents were happy that they could call me that way. I do not like this name all my life terribly. But the name and surname do not change. From my point of view, Stalin's executioner, a monster and a bastard, of course. And it is impossible to convince me of this. Moreover, my dad is the hero of the war and my uncle - the hero of the war with the name of Stalin reached the Reichstag. I understand all this. Today, with the name of our president, many people also do something like that, as it seems to them, in the name of the country or in the name of the highest state interests.

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-In your theater in the 1990s, one could often meet the current members of the government - Chubais, Shokhin, Aven. Today, these people, albeit far from power corridors, are still recognizable, and they, as before, can be seen on performances in the theater "School of the Modern Play". What, in your opinion, politicians take for their political theater from theatrical art?

- You spoke about the Yeltsin - Gaidar government. From my point of view (I poorly know the government of other countries and other times), it was a unique government. I knew many of them very well - and not only because they came to the theater, and Yegor Timurovich Gaidar and Anatoly Borisovich Chubais and I celebrated New Year in a row in the country of Bulat Shalvovich Okudzhava with him. We went to the performances of other theaters and concerts to the Great Hall of the Conservatory. I will not trump surnames. These people are deeply intelligent, cultural and powerfully educated. Therefore, it was a unique government. From my point of view, these 1990s, which most of our population condemns today, for me it was the best, most interesting years in my life. I am convinced that these were the best years for the country. Yes, with colossal mistakes! Yes, with a poorly adjustable or poorly arranged, unfair history with vouchers and generally history with a redistribution of ownership, with a transition to another state system - from socialism to capitalism, nevertheless it was the most intelligible, most human government. And I am sure that both Chubais and Gaidar will be monuments on the very pedestals where today they are trying to recreate the bandit, the bloodsucker and the freak of Joseph Vissarionovich. I tell all this consciously. As for this government and why they went to the theater - yes because they are normal people. They are living, normal people.

From my point of view, Stalin's executioner, a monster and a bastard. Although I was named in his honor

And I must tell you that when I hear such an extreme “bloody Putin regime” today, for me it is an extreme. Because I studied at the University of Leningrad, I led the University of Leningrad theater for several years. And the fact that Putin, Medvedev graduated from the University of Leningrad is an important fact for me. I have a lot of claims to what and how is happening, but nevertheless it is important to understand what and with whom to compare it. Probably, if we compare our leaders with developed European countries or Americans, it will be in favor of Europe and America. And when compared with the leaders of the Soviet Union, in which I lived - with the illiterate Khrushchev, with the senile Brezhnev, with Chernenko, with Andropov, who crushed all the ones who could push, and we know all these dialogues with Yevtushenko and calls to Yuri Petrovich Lyubimov, and then the calls are not his, but his satraps, then, of course, for me today is enough, enough is enough for me enough. Democratic. We are sitting in the theater and talking freely.

- In the time of Stalin, they also said that Stalin had nothing to do with it, he knew nothing. And now Putin knows nothing about Cyril Serebrennikov ?

I am sure that Chubais, and Gaidar will be monuments on the very pedestals where today they are trying to erect monuments to Stalin

-Firstly , Putin himself already said that he knew. And he cannot but know, because my colleagues, comrades gave him a letter and our general request, our strong interest in this process to go according to the law. This is the most important thing. If you ask me humanly: “Are I sure of the sinlessness of my colleagues absolutely confident?”, I will answer you that I’m not sure of my sinlessness. To my great regret, Serebrennikov is a sign, this is an occasion, this is Lakmus only. Remember, there was a story at the airport with a person in a snow -off machine when the plane crashed. So, both he and the accountant of the Seventh Studio - all these people should be equally protected by law. Therefore, despite the fact that I am very good at many performances of Serebrennikov, in general, the phenomenon called Serebrennikov and the Gogol Center, I am occupied by the judicial system here. Therefore, I believe that it is necessary to pull Serebrennikov from there, to protect him, but I would still speak, first of all, about a certain space of the law. The court must be fair, the court must be qualified, the court must be motivated. I have to believe the court. And I do not believe the court. Therefore, it can be silverniks, or maybe anyone. For example, Nikita Belykh, whom I know well, I know how he worked and work hard in this Kirov, how he was specifically engaged in the theater.

Officials are engaged in only one thing - they protect their convenient place and their profit from anything

- When Khodorkovsky was judged, the experts said that what was charged with him could be put forward as a claim to almost everyone who is engaged in business in Russia. The same can be said about Serebrennikov and White.

- In many areas of our life, it is impossible to live today not even that observing the laws, but to live and conduct business, observing a crazy amount, dozens, hundreds of stupid orders, requirements, all that comes from the army of the middle link of officials. They are engaged in only one thing - they protect their convenient place, their salary and their profit from anything. This is a disaster! Therefore, it is not a matter of Serebrennikov.

- A year ago, including this, Konstantin Raikin spoke of this. In his speech. Then in the theater community there were people who condemned Raikin. Now in the story of Serebrennikov those who would clearly gloat, there were no, but in June the action in defense of Less Brill, Maslyaeva and Itina essentially failed. Scarrow theaters chose to write letters from themselves so as not to substitute their groups.

- No, you are wrong. In Moscow there is a very important main council - the Council of Artistic leaders. There are 11 leaders of Moscow theaters. We all signed one letter. Moreover, the same letter was signed by Kalyagin, chairman of the STD. Moreover, I am not a member of the STD, I came out of it 25 years ago. I am not a member of a single union at all. At the same time, once again I say, it seems to me that just my colleagues and comrades, with the rare exception, this situation with Serebrennikov and Raikin, and in general, with the attitude of power and culture, understand approximately the same way. I do not see some kind of discord, some such sharp contradictions in this.

-Well, after all, people of art are well known, and if they decided to hold an action in defense of their comrades ...

- And what kind of action? Go out and stand near the court?

- There are enough people near the trial. But, for example, to hang a tablet in the lobby of the theater, how many days Alexei Malobrodsky sits behind bars, and under house arrest the same Serebrennikov.

- And what?

- Remind the audience who does not say anything about this on federal channels. Maybe people will somehow perceive reality.

- I can answer you. Perhaps you will not like my answer. I think that on the balcony of my apartment I can hang out: "Alexey Malobrodsky sits so much." But this is the State Theater. I am a state official. Under my leadership, 150 employees work. And every evening 400 spectators come here. I can and want to act myself only within the framework of the law, or within the framework of artistic space - in my performances, in my books. I have a blog on Echo of Moscow. I regularly write large articles in the Moscow Komsomolets. I am a professional journalist. And I participate in these political shows. Here I say everything that I consider necessary. But I believe that in the theater, on stage or in the lobby, I can’t hang it "Malobrodsky sits for so many days." Because again then neither they observe the law, nor I. I say once again, the court is unfair, the court exists outside the law. The court, unfortunately, exists outside the confidence of citizens. I do not trust the court, I do not believe. What to do next? I have no facts. A person of any level of power may be pretty, or maybe, like without power, any other person. And what should I do? I do when I go to vote, or conduct a discussion on television, or I write about it, trying to convince someone. But I can’t do anything else. I cannot change the judicial system. I cannot change the management system, although it seems to me, well, this is obvious! Why so many officials?!

Churches do not like my performance, but I really do not like representatives of the church who have become one of the branches of power

-In addition to officials, we still have something offended by someone and someone.

- Well, of course. For me, everything that the Russian Orthodox Church is doing today, its representatives, are just madness. The churches do not like my performance, but I really do not like the representatives of the church - how they behave, the way they exist, the way they became one of the branches of power, how they comment on works of art and literature that they should not comment. What to do now? It seems to me that today every person is in his place due to his beliefs, by virtue of his education, by virtue of his circle of communication can change our reality. And God forbid that this happens that way. Because today we are losing ... We have a very talented country - talented people, first of all. And we lose so many people, unfortunately. I have the opportunity, but I do not want to work in the West. I staged many performances in the largest theaters in the world. I give lectures at the largest universities. But three days later in any America, I begin to get nervous and want to go to the Odintsovo district of the Moscow Region. And I am sure that most of my colleagues do not even think, but feel the same. My eldest daughter is the scenographer Maria Tregubova, who makes performances in New York, in London, I'm not talking about big, Moscow Art Theater, I am already standing in line. She has so many invitations to live and work there, but she is a Russian artist. And I am a Russian director. Until they put me forward from here, I won’t go.

-You mentioned the so-called talk shows, in which often words cannot be disassembled due to the fact that everyone screams at the same time. Why are you going there?

-I go to Solovyov’s programs and in the transfer of Channel One is completely consciously to scream something. And when they say to me: "Why do you go there, why are you talking to them at all? Why are you flashing there?" And then, that I want someone, albeit one of a hundred, who is looking live on the Far East or “Evening with Solovyov”, or these “60 minutes”, or “time will tell”, heard another point of view ... I go there so that this is just the most. Moreover, this rarely happens, but it happens that I hear a certain proof of something opposite to me from a certain reasonable person, something that I am not informed or not sure. And I can accept it. I can say: "Yes, I was wrong. I did not know that, I did not take it into account." Unfortunately, my arguments are almost always not accepted. Naturally, I have not only a look for any events taking place in our life, but I have a comment. Therefore, it is one thing when a non -informed person includes the first, second, third channels of our television or NTV and believes a huge amount of lies and obscurantism, which are rushing from there, he has nothing to object to it. He has no reverse facts. He believes. He thinks that it is. And I do not believe, because I saw something else. And sometimes I want to those wonderful people, wonderful people, talented people who turn on the TV and sincerely believe that this is so, say: "Dear, and you think, and you correlate, but you check. This is not so!"

- In these shows, your hometown is often remembered - Odessa.

They burned each other there, not Russian Ukrainians and not Russian Ukrainians

“ I can tell you that I often visit Odessa.” There I have a grandfather and grandmother in my cemetery. I was born there, I lived there all the youth. And all that I hear here is tales, figures about Odessa, including a formed bike about the house of trade unions . In fact, a monstrous, terrible, but bilateral civil tragedy. Therefore, they cannot make out for three years, they cannot understand who is right, who is to blame, to great regret. The situation is that everyone is right and everyone is to blame. They burned each other there, not Russian Ukrainians and not Russian Ukrainians. And on our television channels they say that a certain Goncharenko photographed someone. Bullshit! I know this Goncharenko very well. I know this house of trade unions. I was born there and spent all my childhood. I know what happened there, even by names and names. I know the university students who died there. I know hired people who have found passports with a residence permit, excuse me, the Transnistrian Republic. And when they tell us that in Odessa they go with machine guns and grenades explode, I will say to this - a lie, absolute lies!

- Was the theater with tour in Odessa?

- This year we were at the invitation of the mayor. The performances passed with crowded halls with resale of tickets, speculators, because there were not enough tickets. In the Green Theater on the Black Sea, my creative evening was held. By the way, there is a monument to the unknown sailor, the only one in the world where the shift continues and the eternal flame burns. And all the stories about the mockery of Soviet monuments - lies, lies and lies! There was nothing in ten days of tour. Moreover, when I asked our producers before the evening in this Green Theater for one and a half thousand places: “Will the“ Right Sector ”will appear? Will there be any provocation?”, To which they said with the famous Odessa irony and with the Odessa accent: “Did you invite them?” I say: "In what sense - they invited?" - "No, if you did not invite them, we did not invite them, they will not come. They come to the shooting for money." And there was no one close to no one. It's funny! It's absurd! Nobody!

- The masterpieces of world art, as well as talented people, sometimes appear in totalitarian and not free countries. Is freedom necessary for the artist? Or can the confrontation and struggle also play a role with a plus sign in art?

-The confrontation and harsh circumstances, of course, give an incentive and provoke to some very definite art moves or techniques. Undoubtedly. But still, I think that it is better to live in a free civilized country and compose works, helping people live, and not defending themselves from those who prevent you from living.