"It will be pointed"

State Duma Vice Speaker Peter Tolstoy told Medusa which media will become foreign agents

On November 15, State Duma deputies - in one day and unanimously - adopted amendments to the law on the media, which allow us to recognize individual publications by foreign agents. The swiftness of the adoption of the document was explained by the Russian authorities with the need to respond to the actions of the US Ministry of Justice as soon as possible, who ordered RT to register as a foreign agent in America. Medusa talked about the bill with the vice-speaker of the State Duma Peter Tolstoy-he was the head of the working group, who prepared it.

- Based on the text of the amendments, almost any foreign structure - whether it is a site or even an account in social networks - can be recognized as a foreign agent. This is done intentionally-or are there any more clear distinctions?

-Inside the amendments there is a limiter: a foreign agent can be recognized as a foreign media -or [media] receiving money from abroad. We, as legislators, give the possibility of executive power to accept point - response - measures for some media. This does not concern everyone, it does not be universal in nature, it is not a direct law, it is a frame inside which the Ministry of Justice can act.

-That is, [for example] the Blog of the Podgy, which [theoretically] may well receive funding from abroad, will not fall under the effect of amendments?

- Specifically, he does not fall under these amendments. But there may be other things, they can concern calls to overthrow power or illegal actions - this is already a substantial part.

Why do I say that the amendments will not affect freedom of speech? This is not just a beautiful wording - we did not have a goal to influence the substantive part. Our citizens still have the opportunity to choose any information from any sources. But if a foreign media that receives money from abroad works for the Russian audience, it should openly say this.

- If we proceed from the criteria by which the media can be recognized by a foreign agent, it turns out that the RT channel can fall under the validity of amendments. After all, in the USA he works through an American representative and receives income there. Is there a contradiction here?

- If it were a continuous law, then many companies could fall under its actions. For example, the TASS news agencies and Interfax, which are signed by the US State Department and pays money for subscription. But we proceed from that message that it is not necessary to bring to insanity. RT is still not a foreign company and, of course, will not fall under this law.

- Why were the criteria that the Ministry of Justice will not be formulated in the amendments to compile a list of foreign agents?

- We generally did not want to take such measures, but the situation forces us. And we do this so that the executive branch has the opportunity to take mirror measures against those countries where the rights of our journalists are infringed.

- Can you even assume what these criteria will be?

- First of all, the Ministry of Justice can consider the activities of certain media, based on the origin of the funds of their financing. But how this will be done is a question to the ministry. They must develop by -laws that will regulate this work. I do not think that the list of the media of foreign agents will be long.

“So it will be something point?”

- It will be pointed. It is also important to note that this solution will have a therapeutic effect. The leadership of countries in which Russian media now call propaganda means absolutely unprovenly speak of Russian hackers, hung labels, speaking of the toxicity of contacts with the Russians, there will be an extra reason to think that response measures from the Russian side will follow anyway. Today's vote in parliament showed that the parliament can do this quickly, efficiently - and with the support of all the political forces that are represented in the Duma ( the bill was adopted unanimously - approx. Medusa ).

You mentioned social networks. And after the adoption of the law, we will not dissolve our working group, we will continue to monitor various aspects. So if further steps from the United States follow, we will take similar actions.

- What kind?

- I will give an example. I know that congressmen and senators are concerned that social networks registered in the United States are not able to distinguish good advertising from bad, promoting content from brainwashing. Here we also have reason to ensure that this question is disturbed by us.

- Do I understand correctly that the Russian Ministry of Justice concentrates, first of all, on the American media?

“I would love to answer this question to you, but I can’t speak for the Ministry of Justice.” But the logic of this decision was publicly explained in the framework of mirror measures against the United States. But the fewer the media this decision will affect, the better - this is my personal position.

- If amendments are mirror measures, why did not “political” criteria began to make in their text? Indeed, in the United States a foreign agent is called an individual or legal entity that is engaged in political lobbying in favor of another state.

- Any media can be called a means of propaganda. This is a matter of definitions. They arise when noise is created in public opinion. Today it is a story around the BuzzFeed publication about money for 2016’s elections in Russian embassies ( the publication published a text that in August-September 2016, Russian diplomatic missions were transferred around the world to conduct elections. The Russian Foreign Ministry said that it was money to organize Russians voting abroad in the State Duma-approx. "Medusa" ). On such fake news, everything is growing. We cannot react to this.

- It simply turns out that under the actions of amendments, not only political media can fall, but also, for example, sports.

- Recently, we have so many events in sports related to politics that, of course, nothing can be ruled out. But we tried not to specify this situation as much as possible - not to give the names of the media, not to call countries of origin, not to write the word "political". In the USA, the law [on foreign agents] of 1938 is used as they want: both in relation to individuals and in relation to legal entities, and use the concept of “political lobbyism”. We do not have it, because maybe we have a different legal culture.

- In the USA, it was obliged to register exactly the American company through which the RT channel operates in the country. We are going to impose restrictions on the structures that are outside Russia. Are these really correlated measures?

- American law obliges to send a questionnaire of 60 points every three months to the Ministry of Justice, all materials are not financial reporting, as in our legislation, including a journalistic product; They are also required to disclose sources that puts this media in a more vulnerable position in terms of competition in the market. ( Foreign agents in the United States in their reports should simply describe their activities. For example, the TASS agency was a foreign agent in the United States until 1992-each time it was sent the same story about its building in New York. The questionnaire should not be sent every three months, but once every six months. It is not 60, but 27 points. But Russian NPOs-foreign agents will be required to send every three months a report in which more than 150 points - approx.

- What will happen if the media, recognized by a foreign agent, refuses to send reports to the Ministry of Justice?

- The sanctions are spelled out in the Law “On Foreign Agents”, to which amendments refer to. According to our legislation, the consequences are softer than in the United States - we are talking about fines and administrative responsibility, in America - the maximum punishment of five years of imprisonment ( this refers to the Russian Law on NPO - foreign agents that has been in force since 2012; “malicious evasion” from the execution of this law is punishable by the criminal article, up to two years of prison; in Russia, one thing was drawn in Russia , but it was later. Crossed by the lack of corpus delicti - approx .

- So, there will be neither lock nor inclusion in the register?

- lock and inclusion in the register can be applied on other grounds - on substantial grounds. We give the Ministry of Justice formal grounds in order to strengthen financial statements, and not to influence the content of what the media provides to its users.

- The sanctions were not registered in the amendments, because their content is described in the law on foreign agents?

- That's right. We think that the Russian Ministry of Justice has already gained a certain experience in this, albeit less significant than that of our colleagues in the United States - we have 88 organizations in our list of foreign agents, and they have more than 400. But they will be able to establish law enforcement practice on the experience of interacting with NGOs - foreign agents.

- When, as you suppose, the amendments will come into force?

- During the week they will be considered by the Federation Council, then they will enter the signature of the president. As the head of state will sign them, so they will enter into force.

- After that, can you wait for the first lists?

-Firstly, the lists will be short, and secondly, in order for lists to appear, you need to make some more decisions on by-laws.

After this interview, in the evening of November 15, the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federationsent the warnings “Voice of America” and “Radio Liberty” on the possible recognition of their foreign agents.

Sasha Sulim

with the participation of Mikhail Zelensky