In the battalion "Aidar" and the headquarters Sobchak

Donbass, Summer 2014. At the exploded bridge over the river, on the other side of which are the positions of the separatists, the fighter of the Ukrainian battalion "Aidar" Ruslan and his friend, a director from Russia Beata Bubenets, are video. When Beata worked in the combat area, the Ukrainians took her as a Russian spy, detained her, but Ruslan's friends rescued Beata from captivity, and she began to make a film about Aydar fighters.

A conflict arises on the bridge - a local resident, dissatisfied with the behavior of Aidarov, begins to bother with them, they are detained, taken away and interrogated. At first, the situation is inflated, but the detainee proves that he is not a separatist, and he is released.

Thus begins the documentary of Beata Bubnets "Flight of the bullet", 80 minutes of the life of the fighters of the Aidar battalion without a single installation gluing.

The film was shown in Moscow only once, at the Artdokfest festival. “Veterans of the DPR”, activists of the SERB group, appeared for the session and scandalized, announcing that the film “glorifies the murder of Russians in the Donbass”. They at all tore the next session, spilling a fetid liquid in the cinema. Several people were detained by the police. The Prosecutor General’s Office registered an application for verification of the film for extremism at the request of the leader of SERB Igor Beketov.

Criticize the "flight of bullets" not only from the pro -Kremlin camp, but also the liberals. Beata Bubenets is accused of taking off the hostage without his consent and now he can be in danger.

Among the critics was the TV presenter Vladimir Solovyov, who announced that the Buban "was completely alien to all ideas about ethics and morality, and for this she must answer by law."

Now the shows of the “Bullet’s flight” are suspended by the decision of the producers, and Beata Bubenets is busy with a new project - “ candidate.doc ”, the chronicle of the election campaign, which is conducted by Ksenia Sobchak.

The conversation with Beata Bubenets was recorded during the installation of one of the videos of this project - about the trip Sobchak to Tver:

“It is easy to imagine how the director feels, whose premiere of the picture is torn by hooligans.” But instead of sympathy, you are accused of all sides - including opponents of those who tore off the session in the October cinema. Paradoxical situation ...

- I expected that issues may arise to me and my picture, and I was ready to discuss these issues. But there was no open dialogue. I now feel very strange, they are not given the opportunity to answer me, and they have already decided something for me, they are discussing speculation and rumors, but not facts. After the premiere of the film, a lot of untruthful information appeared about me and about the film. They are discussing people who have not seen the film, it is surpassed many times, and a new reality is created. I do not understand how to respond in such a situation, because it is impossible to refute all the speculations, all lies. I don’t know how to react to fiction. It is amazing me that people of different political beliefs are very easily manipulated by facts to recreate a picture of the world that is comfortable for them.

- Did you know about the existence of an organization called SERB? How did you perceive the appearance of these people in the hall of the October cinema?

On the eve of the premiere, messages began to come from strangers with threats

- I heard, of course, about the fact that there was such an organization, but before the show did not know that they had claims to me. On the eve of the premiere, messages began to come from strangers with threats, they were against showing this film in Russia. These were some unfamiliar, fake accounts without faces. It was very unpleasant for me that these were anonymous persons, and then, when these people came out at the show and began to express their position publicly, I even experienced relief because I saw their faces.

- How did they learn about your film?

- On the eve of the festival on federal channels, Artdokfest was discussed, the film "War for the Peace" was discussed. I did not see this film, but there was a complaint to him that he praises the Ukrainian military. Apparently, the "flight of bullets" automatically attributed to the category of films praising the Ukrainian military. I think it happened so.

- The first time they allowed them to show the film, and after the session they began to perform?

They did not allow anyone to say and shouted their slogans

- Yes. I was not present in the hall, but they say that during the session they shouted. There were not as many of them as on the second day, but they still prevented them from watching. They did not watch the film completely, at some point they left the hall, and there were already disputes with me and Vitaly Mansky. We wanted to arrange a discussion, but it did not work out because they did not allow anyone to say and shouted their slogans. They promised that the next day there would be even more people and tore off the show. So they did.

- Journalists studying this organization know that they have a curator from the ED center, which leads their shares, such as the destruction of a tablet on the house where Boris Nemtsov lived, or attacks on those who protect the memorial on the bridge. They say that this curator was present in the cinema at the show of your film. Have you heard about it?

- Yes, I heard that they are connected with the center of "E", but did not recognize in detail.

- In the claims that they presented to you, is there a proportion of truth or are they, from your point of view, are absurd?

Someone believes that in principle it is impossible to show the Ukrainian military in the cinemas of Moscow

-If we are talking about a claim that I praise the military, then, of course, this is not true, I do not praise anyone, I have no task to praise someone or denigrate. I just show my subjective view of these people. Another question is that someone believes that in principle it is impossible to show the Ukrainian military in the cinemas of Moscow. Some Ukrainian filmmakers and public figures have a similar position, who believe that it is impossible to give the floor to separatists, militias, because they are considered terrorists in Ukraine, they cannot be shown in any form. And I believe that it is necessary to show everyone, to conduct a dialogue and discussion, you can not close.

- One of the spectators who defended your film from hooligans in the cinema, Vitaly Leontyev, was behind bars , he was detained and gave 7 days for "disobedience to the police."

- This did not happen before my eyes, I did not see how he was detained. This is very sad, it should not be.

- It seemed to me that behind this film is a love story with one of Aydar’s fighters, Ruslan, and it was thanks to your novel that his fellow soldiers treated you so well, they allowed you to freely shoot you, because they considered you his girlfriend. I understand the situation correctly?

- Not quite so. Ruslan, of course, was a very close friend at that time. But we did not have a novel and I was not perceived as his girlfriend. We had friendship.

- Why did they allow you to shoot everything? Here he is standing, talking on the phone with his girlfriend, pronounces some intimate things, and you are immediately with a camera half a meter from him, and it seems that you are not. How did you convince them that you are invisible? This is not Ksenia Sobchak, it is people who are not used to the fact that someone walks with the camera for them ...

I still became the central character around which events are spinning

- Ruslan, who also shot everything on camera, is the hero of the Reality project , the guys from Reality met on the Maidan. When I was captured in Ukraine, they called him and said that it was necessary to help me to free me. After I was released from captivity, I ended up in the company of these guys. They trusted me as a friend of Ruslan. They were not embarrassed, maybe because they are already accustomed to filming, Ruslan takes a lot of them. I would not say that I was not noticed: on the contrary, the difficulty was that I could not shoot as if I were not there, because I always found myself in the center of their attention, in itself became an event in their life. Therefore, I could not be invisible, as usual, when they shot a documentary, I still became a central character around which events spinning.

- It is clear that you are a woman in the barracks, and men are interested in you. One even rather rudely flirts: let's go to the basement to make love. How did you feel in this situation?

Due to the fact that men feel like heroes, they try to behave noble

- I felt safe with them, I understood that I was under their protection. It seems to me that despite the common opinion that it is dangerous for women to be in a war among men, it is still because men feel heroes, they try to behave noble. On their part, I did not feel the threat of physical violence. They behaved about the same as men usually behave in peaceful life.

- But they are armed, they can stop the random passerby on the bridge, search, threaten, in principle could they kill him, why not? In war, this happens daily.

- It seems to me that in me they did not feel a threat.

- But you are from Russia. In the war, paranoia always reigns: this is a spy, this is Putin's agent. They blame each other. You did not feel wary: what is the Russian woman doing here, is she a spy?

We talked with the police, they learned that I was a Russian woman. Of course, there was a lot of stress

- Of course, it was. In general, there was a friendly attitude towards me, but there were moments when I felt that they could suspect me of something. At the school in which we lived, there were still regular Ukrainian troops, police. There was a situation when all the Aidarovites went somewhere on their business, but I did not go with them. They did not return for a long time, we talked with the police, they learned that I was a Russian woman. Of course, a lot of tension arose, because they frankly discussed some things with me, and then suddenly it turns out that I am a Russian woman. It was very unpleasant, because Idarovites, my guys, no, and I am alone with these Ukrainian military, who suddenly realized that I was a Russian woman. Fortunately, the Aidarovites returned, and everything was fine.

Beata Bubenets

- How much did you spend with the Aidar time?

- A few weeks.

- And what are your general impressions of this detachment? They talk a lot about him a lot, they accuse of cruelty to the civilian population, his reputation is ambiguous.

Many consider the Aidarovites bandits, but with me in the summer of 2014 they did not participate in direct hostilities, they did not kill

- I agree that a very ambiguous reputation among Ukrainians, many consider Aydarists bandits. Inside the Idar himself there was a conflict, a showdown precisely because there were many bandits, looters and rapists. I can’t speak for the entire “Aidar” battalion, there are very motley people, different internal groups, I do not exclude that there have been terrible cases that attribute to “Aidar”. I speak specifically about these guys with whom I spent time, seven people. I felt safe in their company, I felt that I could trust them. Of course, they committed a lot of immoral acts. But in general, war is an immoral action. In the summer of 2014, they did not participate in direct hostilities, did not kill. Maybe now they have the experience of the murder, but at that time most of them only found themselves in the war. When I shot, they did not participate in terrible hostilities, they did not have blood in their arms.

- An interesting question about morality, because your film is also accused of immoralism, since you show the detainee without his knowledge. This is a difficult question: art is generally allless, you can’t approach the feature film, poem or novel in terms of morality. But documentary cinema? If these are journalism, then there should be ethical standards.

The film "Flight of the Bullet" received the Prize "Lavr"

- Indeed, they are charged to me that I show a person taken hostage. I do not know how ethical or unethical, I do not really understand ethics. I proceeded from the fact that, firstly, he himself did not object to the filming, even in the film in the eighth minute he says that he had nothing against filming, he opens only against the actions of the Aidar, who begin to shoot into the air in response to a remark. Further, when he was released, he did not say that it was impossible. From a legal point of view, it is necessary to obtain a written resolution in order to use his image in public access. In my opinion, such permission is not required for the festival. How much can my film harm him? I think that the show at the festival itself cannot harm. The hype around the film is another question. As for issues of morality, I am probably not a very moral person, because I see many threats in when they pose moral issues. The war begins at a time when there is a division into good and bad, moral and immoral people. That is the fact that these people are “immoral”, as if gives one people the right to kill them. The war begins at the moment when a man is convinced that he is right and the other is not right when he is convinced that my country and I am on the good side, and my enemies are bad. Morality is a division into good and bad. The war begins when there is this division. I am against this separation, because it leads to war.

- You were on the Maidan, supported Ukraine, at least during the filming of this film. How do you look at this conflict today, given the experience of staying on the front line that you had?

I believe that the initially Russia is to blame for this conflict

- I supported the revolution, I admired those people who were on the Maidan. When the conflict began, I believed that Russia intervened in the internal affairs of Ukraine. And of course, I think that the initially Russia is to blame for this conflict. But in the midst of the war, many questions arise, because in any conflict there are always two participants. In order for the war to stop, a dialogue is needed. It is impossible if people close, say that they are terrorists, we cannot deal with them at all. I believe that only through the discussion can this war be stopped. Someone cannot defeat, but someone to lose. Now I would not say that I am on someone's side, because, supporting someone's side, I support the war.

- Do you have contacts with the Aidar battalion, do you maintain relations with them?

- I left, I did not see them anymore. But on my Facebook, my friends have David from Aydar, virtual communication is supported.

- Are you ready to show them a film? After all, they may not like how they look on the screen. Can there be complaints about you from them?

My producers believe that so far it is necessary to stop shows in Russia and in Ukraine at all

-I do not think that on their part there may be claims to me, because they were never against filming, they did not think that they were doing some wrong thing, they have nothing to be ashamed. Of course, I would like to show this film in Ukraine, I would be interested in how Ukrainians would watch this film. But my producers believe that so far it is necessary to stop shows in Russia and in Ukraine at all.

-Due to the fact that there is no resolution of the hostage?

-Yes , first of all because of this person.

- Does it upset you?

- Of course, I am upset by the impossibility of discussion. I wanted discussions, but now it is impossible to lead it. On the other hand, we are talking about human security, and the hero’s security is much more important than a discussion.

- In Russia, it cannot be shown not only for political, but also by, let’s say, lexical reasons, because the heroes speak the language prohibited by the Ministry of Culture, swear through every word. I do not think that in general the issue of Russian rental can be seriously posed.

- Certainly. We did not even think about the rental in cinemas, only at the festival. In Ukraine, too, if only at the festival they would show him.

- Few people saw your film, but it is already being discussed on federal channels ...

- I heard about it, but did not see the programs.

- And do not want to see?

- Now there is very little time. Some rumors come to me, my friends say: here, they wrote about you that you are a "nurse". Of course, I try to refute it.

- You have little time, because you are shooting a series about the election campaign of Ksenia Sobchak. I watched several episodes - this is an interesting experiment, and it looks like a “bullet flight”. Your heroes behave as if there are no cameras. I can’t imagine the headquarters of the US presidential candidate, for example, where he acted like this with the camera. How did you achieve such freedom and is there any censorship in the project “Candidate. DOC” or do you have complete creative freedom?

Around Sobchak there are a lot of theories, assumptions, speculation. The strongest way to confront this is to show the truth

- Indeed, they give me a big freedom . The strongest position is true, the power is really in truth. After all, when Ksenia Sobchak moved to the presidency, there were a lot around her, as now around my film, various theories, assumptions, speculation. Probably the strongest way to resist this is to simply show the truth, to show how it is. If you have nothing to hide, then you do not need to be afraid. On the other hand, this is the election, there is a goal to win, accordingly, there should be some kind of agitation. The relationship between people, emotions are more important to me. And the fact that they can forbid me to withdraw when they discuss some money is not interesting to me, it is more important for me to show relationships. Ксения Собчак участвовала в проекте "Срок" , она понимает, что такое документальное кино. Я очень рада, что не ошиблась, когда решилась на такой эксперимент, потому что Собчак готова к тому, чтобы быть героем документального кино. Не каждый политик готов так откровенно показывать себя в интернете. Мне это импонирует в ней, и по-человечески я вижу в этом большой плюс.

– Какой из эпизодов, который вы уже сняли, вам кажется самым интересным?

– Мой самый любимый эпизод – снятый тоже одним кадром во время митинга в Санкт-Петербурге.

– Где ее пытаются перекричать...

– Ее кампания называется "против всех", там это очевидно становится, что она выходит, ее начинают освистывать, но она все равно продолжает свою речь. Мне кажется, это очень сильный эпизод, очень мощный.

– Я даже подумал, что здесь есть аналогия с вашей ситуацией. Ведь такие же провокаторы напали на вас во время премьеры "Полета пули".

Я тоже сейчас оказалась в ситуации "против всех"

​ – В каком-то смысле да, я тоже сейчас оказалась в ситуации "против всех", против этих людей патриотично настроенных, которые не видели фильм и считают, что он восхваляет украинские войска, и против прогрессивной, либеральной общественности, которая предъявляет мне претензии не по фактам, а по каким-то домыслам. Очевидно, что мой фильм вызывает огромное возмущение, и люди допридумывают какие-то факты для того, чтобы создать новую реальность, которая будет вписываться в их картину мира.

– П олучится из этой хроники что-то полнометражное?

– Пока это ежедневные дневники, но возможно, будет и большой фильм про избирательную кампанию, про Ксению Собчак.

– Знаю, что вы думаете продолжить сюжет про Энтео и Алехину, тоже сделать полнометражный фильм.

– Я думала об этом летом, мне хотелось сделать документальный фильм про Машу Алехину. Она очень интересный герой, но ее надо было снимать два года назад. Она написала замечательную автобиографическую книгу. Я думаю, что эта книга как фильм, который можно было бы о ней снять в тот период, когда она находилась в состоянии поиска. Сейчас она, мне кажется, успешно преодолела кризис и уже как героиня документального кино не так интересна.

– Опять же тот же вопрос: как Энтео и Алехина, которые скрывали свои отношения, пустили режиссера с камерой в свой дом?

Мой фильм стал для них способом совершить каминг-аут

​ – Мой самый первый документальный фильм был про Дмитрия Энтео, он меня уже знал, поэтому он пустил меня к себе в дом. А Маша – человек тоже открытый, в том числе для творческих экспериментов. Есть спектакль по мотивам ее жизни, где она очень обнажается. Она готова была сниматься в таком откровенном фильме. Они уже достаточно давно вместе, но из-за осуждения и со стороны окружения Маши, и со стороны окружения Энтео долгое время скрывали. Может быть, мой фильм стал для них способом совершить каминг-аут.

– Вы оказались вместе с Собчак на программе Шейнина, в эфире телеканала "Россия". У вас ведь был опыт работы на телевидении. Конечно, это два мира – свободный мир YouTube и фестиваля "Артдокфест", где нет цензуры, и этот искусственный мир телевидения, особенно чудовищных ток-шоу. Какое у вас впечатление от телевидения?

Это точно не журналистика, а страшная машина зомбирования

​ – Конечно, очень тяжелое впечатление. Это точно не журналистика, а страшная машина зомбирования. Меня поражает, как Ксения держится. Должен быть какой-то диалог, вопрос должен задаваться для того, чтобы услышать ответ. А цель этих программ – создать пропаганду, создать виртуальную реальность. И все равно Ксении Собчак удается гнуть свою линию.

– У вас большой опыт работы на телевидении?

– На центральных каналах я практически не работала, я работала в Нижнем Новгороде в новостях и ведущей в развлекательных программах. На нижегородском канале была свобода слова, я чувствовала себя очень комфортно. Была свобода, но существовала самоцензура. На федеральных каналах все начинается с каждого участника процесса, каждого корреспондента. Когда я переехала в Москву, я не смогла найти себе места как журналист, мне было не очень интересно заниматься журналистикой, какой-то кризис произошел, и я решила делать фильмы.

– То, что вы сейчас делаете с Ксенией Собчак, – это журналистика ?

– Это документальные ролики. Все-таки, когда я работала журналистом, я видела свою миссию в том, чтобы говорить о проблемах для того, чтобы эти проблемы решались. У какой-то бабушки не включают отопление, ты показываешь эту бабушку и контору, которая должна отопление включить, они боятся давления общества, поэтому включают отопление. А сейчас, наверное, у меня такой цели нет, когда я делаю ролик про Собчак. Хотя не знаю, может быть есть.

– Проект начался совсем недавно, а у него хорошие результаты на YouTube, по 150 тысяч просмотров.

– Конечно, все обсуждают Собчак, интересно смотреть людям, какая она в жизни.

– Победит она на выборах? Через 6 лет?

Зрители федеральных каналов ждут новых лиц, им Собчак симпатична

​ – Что угодно может быть. Я вижу людей – не тот оппозиционный электорат, который голосовал бы за Навального, – а просто Собчак выходит на Красную площадь, там какие-то девочки 18–19 лет с восхищением просят сфотографироваться, милиционеры, простой народ. Зрители федеральных каналов ждут новых лиц, им она симпатична. И у нее преимущество перед оппозиционными политиками, потому что их не пускают на федеральные каналы, а ее пускают. Я думаю, она может иметь потенциально очень большую аудиторию, которая захочет за нее проголосовать. Спустя какое-то время, может быть, она станет президентом, почему нет?

– Мы начали этот разговор с того, что еще до премьеры вашего фильма вы стали получать угрозы в социальных сетях. Сейчас, после того, как скандал разразился, вам продолжают угрожать?

– Сейчас немножко поутихло. Это застревает в Фейсбуке в папке "другое", там очень много. Я не читаю и не отвечаю на них. Какие-то странные имена, есть и с фотографиями люди, но большей частью анонимы.

– Вы напуганы или относитесь к этому с юмором?

– Не напугана. Даже нет времени всерьез задумываться, насколько угрозы могут быть реальными. Никаких серьезных последствий это не должно иметь, мне кажется.