Moscow must be saved

The discovery of the Kremlin and "Radical Urbanism" are discussed by Alexander Kynev, Sergey Mitrokhin, Elena Shuvalova, Ilya Varlamov

Blogger Ilya Varlamov announced the desire to run for mayor of Moscow. He presented the Radical Urbanism program: offers to open the Kremlin for a free visit, repaint its walls in white, enter a paid entrance to the city center, prohibit the entry of the Boulevard Ring to everyone, allowing this only car residents of the city, taxi and public transport. This program looks like a parody of the activities of Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin, whose rivals Varlamov does not see, although experienced politicians are going to participate in the elections: Ilya Yashin, Dmitry Gudkov, Sergey Mitrokhin, Ilya Sviridov, Valery Rashkin ...

How is the struggle for the post of mayor of Moscow? Why is the extension process turn into a show? Is there an alternative to the mayor Sergei Sobyanin?

The Moscow City Duma deputy Elena Shuvalova (Communist Party), politician Sergey Mitrokhin ("Yabloko"), blogger Ilya Varlamov , political analyst Alexander Kynev discuss.

Mikhail Sokolov is broadcast.

Video version of the program

Mikhail Sokolov: I will recall the election of the mayor of Moscow, on September 9. Those who follow the campaign in Moscow are used to what Sergei Sobyanin, the protege of Vladimir Putin, and the set of applicants from liberals, for example, Dmitry Gudkov, from the Democrats of Navalny Ilya Yashin, from Yabloko Sergey Mitrokhin. And there are ordinary disputes about the primaries. Someone will be from the Communists and the LDPR. But the blogger Ilya Varlamov suddenly appears and performs either with the radical program of urbanists, or with a parody of this program. The whole press picks up theses, for example, to open the Kremlin for the people. We will discuss this new election situation six months before the elections. What is this happening six months before the elections, or the struggle for the new appearance of the city, or some very bright self-patient. Sergey Sergeevich, what do you say about what is happening?

Sergey Mitrokhin: What is happening?

Mikhail Sokolov: This is the propaganda-Piarov campaign, which began just yesterday.

Sergey Mitrokhin: I am seriously about this election, I believe that Moscow needs to be saved. Not so long ago we created the Moscow Salvation Committee. After the reign of Sergei Semenovich, there may be irreversible catastrophic consequences for our city. Therefore, I least of all would like these elections to turn into a booth, as, unfortunately, the presidential so -called elections turn. This is such a technology - the booth of the will of voters. I want to declare that I am going to participate in the elections of the Moscow Mayor. I am ready to participate in all sorts of primaries and so on. I am ready to fight really for this post. I am the only one of the candidates for mayors who have a program. Rather, this is still a draft program, I still discuss it. This is a prime program, which was pricked radically, which was called "I will return Moscow to Muscovites." Now, while the name "Savings of Moscow" with a hint that we can lose Moscow completely. I have a report, 15 years of my work in Moscow, "I serve Muscovites!" It is called, where it is said in detail what I have achieved at the stop of dot buildings, stopping parks, helping people in solving housing and communal problems, and so on. That is, I am armed completely in order to actively participate in these elections and win them.

Mikhail Sokolov: Elena Anatolyevna, aren't you going to the polls? I saw a list of candidates for primaries from left-wing forces, something was imperceptible to you.

Elena Shuvalova: Firstly, I am included in these so-called primaries. Probably correctly that the “Left Front” conducts such a survey. Nevertheless, there was such an option in this survey that several dozen people could offer their candidate, satisfying certain criteria. I was very quickly included in this survey and now I am leading. But the main thing is now concerned. Many people came to their participation in the elections, and where are they going to get the necessary signatures of municipal deputies, which should cover three quarters of the Moscow districts?

Mikhail Sokolov: Ilya, I would like to understand what this happened? You are engaged in your blogging there, specific journalism, it seems like you praise the mayoral programs "My street", and suddenly you have 17 points, such an ultra, I would say, an urban-extremist program appears.

Ilya Varlamov: I am glad that you called the extremist-urbanist. But in fact, if you even watched a little what I was doing, these points did not appear yesterday, these points appeared many years ago. I will declare them for a long time, defend them, there is nothing new for those who follow me. It’s just that it’s really a fairly successful moment, firstly, to remind you of the points, the program with which the candidate for mayor should go. What other candidates are saying now, in my opinion, is not entirely correct. It begins again: we are going, because we are against that, all sorts of political slogans. And who will engage in the city is incomprehensible. I have points about the city.

Mikhail Sokolov: Your first item is called: "The cessation of flirting with the federal authorities. Moscow should show teeth." I want to understand what teeth Moscow should show and to whom?

Ilya Varlamov: Mayor of Moscow must be independent. At the moment, the mayor of Moscow is represented by the United Russia party. If he can engage in the city half of the time, then he fulfills political obligations to the party for the other half of the time, in many things he is completely not independent, be there some rallies, other things. Therefore, I would like the mayor of Moscow to be independent, so that he could resist the federal authorities on many issues, especially on political issues. Therefore, it seems to me very important that an independent mayor appears in Moscow. He will automatically be in the opposition of the federal government.

Mikhail Sokolov: I want to ask one more question, because the audience was excited at one point, which seemed to excited the public. It sounds like this: "The return of the Kremlin to people. The resettlement of the presidential administration, the FSO and other services from the Kremlin. The opening of all the gates. The Moscow Kremlin is an old city where life should boil." Other journalists found out that you want to be sure to repaint the Kremlin in white, walls, towers and so on. How relevant is it all, especially white repainting? It seems to me that this is generally federal property.

Ilya Varlamov: The fact that you are now discussing this item and say that he excited everyone, says that this is relevant. What is happening in Moscow is completely wrong. Because the entire center of the city, the same old city, the epicenter of cultural life, where there should be restaurants, cafes and everything else, should boil life - the Kremlin is now a dead zone, because everything is given to the protection of the president, the presidential administration. This is inconvenient for everyone, it is inconvenient for Muscovites, it is inconvenient for them, because they are huddled in unconventioned buildings and quarters. Therefore, of course, we will open, we will relocate and everyone will become good.

Mikhail Sokolov: Did they agree with you to move, sweep away? Are you going to build anything for them?

Ilya Varlamov: What does it mean - you will build? This question is not a fundamental for anyone. If there is a public request, if there is a public discussion on this subject, then I think, sooner or later everyone will agree. Moreover, today it is inconvenient, it is inconvenient to the president, his protection, all the services that occupied all these quarters.

Mikhail Sokolov: On Rublevka, of course, better.

Alexander Kynev: The item to repaint white was already mentioned at the time LDPR, apparently no one just remembers this. In my opinion, the fact that we are observing now is very reminiscent of the fall of last year, when such an informational illumination was going on before the presidential campaign, almost every day the press wrote that some other diva, Anfisa Chekhov, Berkova, someone else was going to the president.

Mikhail Sokolov: One diva gathered as a result.

Alexander Kynev: Hi-hee, haha there were a lot, but in this way the elections were in a certain information agenda. I think Mr. Varlamov solves the same problem. On the one hand, he thus begins to attract attention to the campaign among the inhabitants of such a clowning, and this, of course, is a clowning, and on the other hand, he creates a common background quite convenient for the authorities. Because if you evaluate, just today in Vedomosti there is my article about the scenarios of the upcoming elections, the most convenient scenario for the Moscow government, so that there are a large number of frivolous candidates, preferably marginal, preferably with all kinds of extreme programs that attract attention, but do not cause any threat. Because people understand that they should not seriously vote for them so that against their background, the number one candidate looks just light in the window, a model of wisdom, calm, balance, and everything else.

I want to remind you that Mr. Varlamov has already played such a role, such a clown that discredits the opposition, shakes the power that looks in the best light in the end. There were elections of the mayor of Omsk 2012, when Mr. Varlamov also wrote the type of program, all this looked quite comical. Naturally, he was not registered, but at all perfectly his whole program was used by local PR managers who worked for the administration under the slogan: look at which Muscovites, let's protect Omsk from all kinds of enemy forces, from these crazy urbanists, and so on who want our lives to spoil here, do not understand anything, and so on. And as a result, completely calmly against this background, the entire opposition was represented by a circus. The authority nominated by the authorities as a result became the mayor of Omsk. Now, in my opinion, an attempt to do something similar. In my opinion, there should be no illusions.

All these hee-hee, haha, of course, do not bring any votes, but they shade attention from real serious problems, from real serious candidates. Because today the key problem that is in these elections is: either it will be a circus, there will be another carnivalization, when there is a serious candidate, the rest for dancing, or still those political forces that have real support in society, is enough to put up the courage, despite all resistance, real candidates.

We understand that with the left opposition and with the right, all kinds of informal negotiations are underway so that they put forward not serious candidates, but convenient authorities, so that they are not dangerous. If the most different opposition does not succumb to the desire to stimulate them to nominate all kinds of weak fake candidates, but still will bet on serious candidates, then the city has a chance. And it doesn’t matter who will be the mayor, whether Sobyanin will remain, and so on, it is important that every serious candidate brings some of his voters to the elections. Because if a person really expresses the opinion of people, social networks are behind him, behind him are civil activists and so on. Each additional candidate is new voters. The more strong candidates, let Gudkov be, let Yashin be, let Shuvalov be, let Mitrokhin be, let someone else be.

Mikhail Sokolov: Let Varlamov be. He also has fans on social networks, and a lot.

Alexander Kynev: Well, let Varlamov be. I think that his fans do not go anywhere and sit on the couch. The more candidates, the more people will come to the elections who think something of their own and who are independent of power. This means that the arrival of each additional protest group will reduce the percentage of Mr. Sobyanin. The more other points of view are presented, the higher the chances of the second round. In my opinion, the less Mr. Sobyanin gets in this election, the less confident his victory will be, the more the power will be forced to listen to Muscovites.

Sergey Mitrokhin: I will push away from Alexander’s words about a serious candidate. Let's see what the criteria for this seriousness should be. I believe that the two main criteria should be the program in the first place. And the second criterion is his report, what he did, that he did not jump out like a devil from a snuffbox before the elections and flaunts, but it seems to me that among the listed by Alexander there are such, not even to take out the brackets of Varlamov. Let's watch what the candidate wants. Varlamov began his speech with the words: they all have political slogans there, and I have a specific something. And he immediately switched to political slogans about the mayor.

Mikhail Sokolov: the development of cycling, the elimination of departmental parking lots and all underground crossings inside the garden ring.

Sergey Mitrokhin: This is all small things. I have a program, the first point is political reform. What is political reform? This is the establishment of feedback between the authorities and the Muscovites. This power was lost under Luzhkov, but under Luzhkov there were still any remnants. By the way, I at one time have achieved such connecting links. For example, an interdepartmental commission on point buildings. The chief architect of the city accepted people, we discussed and said with him - this construction would not be. Sobyanin came, created the so -called urban planning land commission, which, as the Stalinsky three in an atmosphere of absolute cupority, will say one place in Moscow, then to the demolition of houses, for the construction of crazy buildings. Establishment from zero feedback between Muscovites and power. This means an independent Moscow City Duma, which is elected independently, without changing the rules of elections from some to others. These are the real powers of local self -government, not as cut, castrated as it is now. This restoration of the destroyed, by the way, at the end of last year, finally finished off Putin, the Institute of Public Hearing. He finished him off with Sobyanin. Because in Moscow they worked out the procedure for profanity of discussion with citizens of the country's problems, instead of public listeners, they arranged a discussion on the Internet according to the type of "active scam" or "fictitious citizen". Without politics, it is impossible to solve these issues, because what I am saying now, that power should depend on Muscovites, it should not create everything that it wants. We will lose Moscow, we are already losing it before our eyes. Therefore, these mechanisms in the city must be restored - this is the key point of my program.

Mikhail Sokolov: Elena, what do you consider key? Probably, not dismantling the monument to Peter the First and the Atrium shopping center, something else.

Elena Shuvalova: Yes, of course, purely populist motifs always arise, like we will settle the Kremlin or transfer everyone to the Zhiguli. Of course, this is not the main thing. The main thing for Moscow is the dominance of the construction and transport oligarchy and the pumping of Muscovites taxes into the pockets of a very narrow group, which is associated with the ruling circles. Indeed, I made a request, and I received an official response from the Finance Department on the number of taxpayers in Moscow. It turned out that the number of taxpayers is much more than residents of Moscow of working age. That is, the city budget is formed due to the tax of individuals. Where is he spending? Halfrillion rubles are spent on the development of the transport system. Do you think that the transport system is developing well?

Mikhail Sokolov: There are questions, I would say.

Elena Shuvalova: Moreover, this is allocated annually, every year there are 500 billion rubles in the rod.

Mikhail Sokolov: And our beloved tile?

Elena Shuvalova: A lot of funds are also allocated to the tile. First of all, it is necessary to revise the construction and transport policy, which Moscow can no longer withstand. Construction took such a scale that the city will soon burst from it soon.

Mikhail Sokolov: I saw a wonderful message that the entire former Tushino airfield will be built up with a giant microdistrict. Honestly, this terrifies especially against the background of what is happening in the area with garbage collection and so on. Give Ilya Varlamov, who has been severely criticized, we will give the opportunity to answer it. See, it does not go without politics. There are more global things than what you offer.

Ilya Varlamov: Everyone says the right things. I do not want our conversation to turn now, so that I would criticize someone, I will not criticize. Everything is correct about the government and about hearings are obvious problems that will need to be solved by anyone who will be the mayor. For some reason, you left the most important thing with which you had to start at the end. Today, a municipal filter in order to become a candidate for mayor can only overcome a candidate from United Russia, all the rest will be determined by the United Russia party, Mr. Sobyanin will choose or not personally sparring partners.

Mikhail Sokolov: Maybe he has already chosen you?

Ilya Varlamov: I extremely doubt it.

Mikhail Sokolov: You just want to fulfill the Sobyaninsky program and overfulfill: a paid entrance to the city center, close the boulevard ring, narrow the garden ring and plant it with lindens, you only do not write about tiles here.

Ilya Varlamov: The whole story about the elections should be started initially with the fact that these elections are very relative, less competitive elections than the presidential election. The question is, what procedures will be, how we can influence this system and who will be registered in the end. Now from the opposition there are at least three independent forces - this is an apple, Ilya Yashin, Gudkov. At least three candidates who are ready to conduct primaries are some procedures to become a candidate. But the issue of registration is not clear what will happen to the registration. It is not clear what we should do with you if we are not talking about candidates, but in general about Muscovites, so that people who can be voted in this election, so that at least some alternative to the current government appear, so that these elections are not the reassignment of Sergei Semenovich Sobyanin.

Mikhail Sokolov: This is a serious moment, indeed, how to make sure that a lot of candidates representing different political forces take part in the elections. Relatively speaking, there are communists, there are democrats of different outliness, there are people who, with a normal system, would collect signatures or make a deposit and, without any municipal filter, would participate in the elections. What are left -wing forces going to do so that a strong effective candidate is registered from them? Will you take people out into the streets or what to do?

Elena Shuvalova: In fact, I began our conversation with you with the fact that this is the main question. We can discuss the programs, we can discuss the actions of the candidates, for now, I believe that no one has signatures of municipal deputies for the municipal filter. So far for today I do not see the solution to this issue, except how someone goes to Sobyanin - give Christ for the sake. And for the sake of Christ, apparently, he will submit to those candidates who will participate in elections for participation, but not for victory. This is the situation today, as it will be tomorrow, I do not know. I do not exclude such an option that somewhere in a month, when there will be a nomination of candidates, taking into account the current situation in Moscow and the Moscow Region, since the Moscow Region no longer wants to accept Moscow garbage, maybe the authorized authorities themselves run over the opposition and will say: take this power that is lying because we do not know what to do, the city flies into tartarars. Therefore, of course, we must talk about the nomination of candidates, of course, we must talk about the nomination of serious candidates, but at the moment there are no municipal signatures, and this filter is a stumbling block.

Mikhail Sokolov: Yesterday there was a forum at the Yabloko party, part of the Moscow asset gathered, Grigory Yavlinsky spoke in front of it. He spoke about the mechanism of nomination of the "apple" candidate.

Grigory Yavlinsky: An Yabloko is quite capable of organizing an honest and transparent vote personally with your participation and offer respected candidates for mayor three or four answers to questions. For example, I suggested you my questions. We are quite ready to invite one of the journalists as moderators. Then, not on the Internet, but with lively voting secretly for two, four, four rounds, two -hour or one and a half -hour discussions to determine who is more supported, who better answered questions about transport, some about the economy, some about democracy, some about the future of Moscow, and so on. But this cannot be done immense. "Yabloko" will choose its candidate, let other forces choose their candidates. When the question arises that there will be several of these candidates, I am afraid that this is predetermined for various reasons, including for the reasons that the power is extremely interested in this. Then let's see who they will give signatures or will not give signatures.

- Will Yashin and Gudkov be able, who have a difficult history of relationships with Yabloko, to take part in the "intra -block" primaries?

Grigory Yavlinsky: Please, who wants to. We define the rules of primaries, anyone who wants to participate in them, let him participate. It seems to me that there is no problem.

Mikhail Sokolov: Sergey, you seem to have not been there, even offendedly wrote that you did not want to come to this party.

Sergey Mitrokhin: I wrote that I am preparing a rally. I invite everyone, tomorrow we are with civilian activists opposing renovation, we conduct a rally on this topic on Suvorovskaya Square, for revising the indigenous housing policy in Moscow and the renovation program. Therefore, I was not at this event. Yavlinsky voiced what I said. I was a participant in a meeting of municipal deputies in the Yakimansky district, where the chairman of the municipal council elected from us, held a meeting on the issues of the primaries. I voiced my position there, I said that I am for the primaries among the Democrats to be carried out by the "apple", I will only participate in such primaries that are held by my party. But at the same time, these primaries should be open to everyone, no artificially cannot be seized from them. We have a document called a "political memorandum" if this document is signed by a person, there are rather stringent positions in relation to power.

Mikhail Sokolov: Is this a type to join the party?

Sergey Mitrokhin: No, we had it for candidates, not to join the party.

Mikhail Sokolov: People have signed this memorandum, after which they campaigned for our Crimea. We know these candidates, you do not want to spoil the mood.

Sergey Mitrokhin: Everyone who signs a memorandum can participate, any supporters can vote without restriction. If a person supports someone from these people, then let him support. That is, on the basis of the Yabloko party, but at the same time open primaries. As for the municipal signatures, you know, this is a fortune -telling on coffee grounds. What Elena Shuvalova is saying now is likely that they will not give anyone or only some special. In the past elections there were several wrong, they gave everyone who could not be given so as not to disgrace. These signatures were given to Navalny, they gave me, cut off people who are not in themselves by famous personalities or they are unknown to them, they gave all parliamentary parties, and the Communist Party of the Communist Party. Sobyanin gave, because otherwise he understood that if he was cut off, he would simply disgrace, it would not be elections, but a disgrace.

Mikhail Sokolov: Now maybe he is dishonored or not?

Sergey Mitrokhin: It seems to me that this is not in his interests simply.

Elena Shuvalova: Do you think that in order not to disgrace, he will give you to win?

Sergey Mitrokhin: He will give you.

Elena Shuvalova: She will not give me. Therefore, no one puts me on, except for ordinary Muscovites.

Sergey Mitrokhin: Are you participating in the primaries of the Communist Party?

Elena Shuvalova: I participate because ordinary Muscovites recorded me there.

Sergey Mitrokhin: You will win them now, the Communist Party will be put forward.

Elena Shuvalova: I will participate and try to win, but in order to expose the essence of this power. It is impossible to predict how events will develop.

Mikhail Sokolov: The City Hall will say: we won’t miss Shuvalov, and we will miss the conditional Ivanov, put forward Ivanov.

Sergey Mitrokhin: This, by the way, is a very possible option. Because Elena Shuvalova is contrary to some positions of the Communist Party. I respect it for this, I just don’t understand why it remains in this party. Because the Communist Party is not an opposition party, it voted for the same renovation.

Elena Shuvalova: The Communist Party resists the existing orders of things. If several people take some other position-this does not mean that the whole batch is bad.

Mikhail Sokolov: Alexander Kynev, your comment.

Alexander Kynev: Since it was about the municipal filter, during these five years there was not a single case when at least one serious candidate would be registered without the participation of the signatures of United Russia. If we take the elections of the Moscow Mayor, 2013, Navalny signatures of members of United Russia had 42, the candidate from the Communist Party of the Communist Party of Melnikov had 19 such signatures, the candidate from the Communist Party of Degtyarev 64, Levichv 37, Sergey Sergeyevich 56 and so on. Moscow is not unique. Moreover, Mr. Levchenko, who won in the Irkutsk region, also among his signatories were deputies from United Russia. Why is this happening? Precisely because the political situation in the region is extremely important, which forces the authorities to register candidates for both the reputation of the elections and under the pressure of public opinion, there are many things. I am absolutely convinced that if the leading parties do not play like, if they all put forward serious candidates, the authorities will not be able to refuse all serious candidates under a set of reasons. If there is Sergey Sergeyevich Mitrokhin or Elena Shuvalova, Dmitry Gudkov, Ilya Yashin, cannot be such that all four are not missed. If desired, signatures are enough for five, six, and seven people. The situation when none of the serious registers is registered, but they register some chief of the MUP, I believe, is politically impossible.

Last year there were elections in the Sverdlovsk region, in fact, everything was reduced to the fact that one of the Roizman came from serious candidates, he was not allowed. If there was someone else besides Roizman, the elections would be completely different. This is just a very indicative story - the authorities are preparing in advance, it is trying to agree. Therefore, much rests on how far the principality will show the principalism at the stage of preparing the party candidates so that they will not put forward unknown candidates who will definitely not collect any number of votes, but that they will put forward people who are ready to seriously fight, criticize and speak uncomfortable things, and then at least someone in ballots will be necessarily. I believe that there is no other scenario. Whoever turns out to be - Gudkov, Yashin or all together, wait - we will see. Но если будут выдвигаться все, кто-нибудь в бюллетень обязательно зайдет. А когда будет бюллетень, тогда будем говорить, за кого нужно голосовать. Кстати, выборы мэра – это всегда выборы личности. Для того, чтобы на них получать значимую поддержку, всегда нужно формировать коалицию. Левченко, который победил на выборах в Иркутской области, победил по одной причине, что смог вокруг себя в ходе избирательной кампании создать очень широкую коалицию, его поддерживали конкретно в Иркутске и коммунисты, и местные либералы, и беспартийные общественники, гражданские активисты. Была очень широкая коалиция и только поэтому он смог победить. Точно по такой же причине смог победить Локоть на выборах мэра Новосибирска. Москва огромный город, в нем огромное количество людей с очень разными интересами. Только формируя широкую коалицию, можно рассчитывать на серьезную поддержку.

Михаил Соколов: Я хотел бы обратиться к людям, как люди оценивают деятельность нынешнего мэра Собянина. Конечно, у нас опрос не социологический, просто мы на улице спрашиваем, еще мы спрашиваем в интернете.

Poll on the streets of Moscow

Михаил Соколов: Я смотрю, что недовольство в основном тем самым благоустройством, которым гордится мэр Собянин. Я повторю результаты опроса "Устраивает ли вас работа мэра Москвы Сергея Собянина?" у нас в Твиттере: 33% устраивает, 67% не устраивает. Такая политизированная аудитория, две трети против Собянина.

Сергей Митрохин: Я думаю, что это недовольство распределено локально совершенно по-другому. Потому что есть районы, которые чудовищно затронуты проектами Собянина, которые реализуются сейчас и которые он планирует. Если вы сейчас в Басманном районе проведете такой опрос, я думаю, что поддерживать там будут максимум 10% только. Потому что там планируется такая реновация, что мало не покажется, там будет уничтожена вся историческая застройка практически. Либо физически снесут дома XVIII века, либо их так застроят, что ничего вообще не будет видно. В других районах, например, идет страшный накат на парки путем вандального благоустройства, который уродует парк. Это тоже отмывание денег, на это тоже колоссальные средства. Нельзя по такому опросу судить. С другой стороны есть люди, которым действительно что-то нравится, их не затронул этот каток, в их двор не пришли с точечной застройкой, у них стадион не сносят. Я как специалист и человек, который долго этим занимается, могу сказать – хуже, чем при Лужкове, намного.

Михаил Соколов: Есть урбанистическая концепция, которую в анекдотическом виде господин Варламов представил сегодня, со всякими разнообразными безумствами, с парковками платными во дворах и прочим. What to do with it? Это же интерес, как вы, Елена Анатольевна, говорите, строительной мафии. Как остановить строительную мафию? С одной стороны есть сплоченная группа людей, которые вошли во власть, которые все контролируют, которые говорят, сейчас я смотрю: Собянин подписал программу борьбы с коррупцией. Видимо, они сами себя будут сечь. Как с этими людьми бороться разобщенным в общем москвичам?

Елена Шувалова: Дело в том, что вы сейчас затронули самую суть. Эта строительная олигархия, строительно-транспортная, транспорт вытекает из строительства, она имеет своих представителей во власти. Неважно, будет Собянин, Иванов, Петров, Сидоров, но это будет собянинщина, то есть засилье опять строек и строек. В городе уничтожены все точки развития. Территории предприятий застроены опять же тем же бизнесом, который получил на них прибыль. Кстати, за снятие запрета на строительство городу достались крохи, большинство ушли от этих выплат. Поэтому я думаю, что строительно-транспортная олигархия сделает все от себя зависящее, чтобы удержаться у власти. Есть реальность, есть политическая игра. Многие политики хотят себя на этой кампании раскрутить, прекрасная понимая, что победа им не светит.

Михаил Соколов: Может быть, они хотят войти в Мосгордуму, создать большинство в Мосгордуме и как-то влиять на власть. Может быть, такой сценарий, если невозможно победить на выборах мэра, то тогда, может быть, ориентироваться на какой-то результат и потом уже на думскую кампанию выходить.

Александр Кынев: Я думаю, что причины участия кандидатов могут быть очень разными. Кто-то может играть в долгую игру в расчете на какие-то выборы завтрашнего, послезавтрашнего дня. Есть люди, которые зарабатывают деньги, мы знаем, что участие в выборах может быть видом бизнеса, когда кандидат сознательно идет на то, чтобы раскалывать чей-то электорат, чтобы доводить до абсурда, подсвечивать кампанию главного кандидата, изображая карикатурную оппозицию и так далее. Есть те, кто действительно выдвигается для того, чтобы засветить конкретную проблему в расчете, что она найдет отражение в программах городской власти. Количество сценариев, почему люди участвуют, может быть действительно очень большим. На любых выборах всегда у всех участников разные мотивации, далеко не все идут побеждать. На мой взгляд, нужно разделять две вещи: кандидаты кандидатами, но мы сейчас здесь говорим как жители города, мы здесь живем, мы москвичи, мы хотели бы, чтобы наш город был комфортным, чтобы был нормальный транспорт, чтобы спокойно могли выйти на улицу, купить газету, купить мороженое, а не бегать в поисках уничтоженного малого бизнеса и так далее. Поэтому я думаю, что то, о чем мы говорили сегодня, мы говорили о том, как себя вести гражданам неравнодушным для того, чтобы в результате этих выборов наш голос был услышан. На мой взгляд, наша задача не зацикливаться ни в коем случае на конкретных фамилиях. Самое плохое, что может быть – начать с пеной у рта мочить друг друга вместо того, чтобы говорить о проблемах, которые есть в Москве, говорить, что плохая КПРФ или плохое "Яблоко", плохой Гудков или Яшин. Я считаю, что на период кампании этот томагавк информационной войны между разной оппозицией надо зарыть. Чем меньше вы критикуете друг друга, тем больше общей пользы. Если все вместе будут делать акцент именно на борьбе с конкретными проблемами, будет лучше совокупный результат. Потому что дискредитируя друг друга, вы людям показываете, что голосовать не за кого, люди разочаровываются в вас всех вместе взятых сразу. Поэтому спокойствие, позитивная программа, возможно, какие-то совместные агитматериалы. Я считаю, что все представители оппозиции друг другу не враги, они по большому счету решают общую задачу, они стремятся заставить власть прислушиваться к населению города, так к этому и надо относиться, вести на избирательной кампании рационально. То есть поддерживать всех разумных кандидатов, смотреть, кто из них зайдет и принимать окончательное решение может быть даже в последний момент по ситуации.

Михаил Соколов: Александр, я знаю, что вы много ездите по странам Азии и Африки, нынешняя разрастающаяся Москва, такой монстр, вместе с Подмосковьем вонючим, загаженным мусором, на что теперь похожа, на какие мегаполисы, которые вы видели?

Александр Кынев: Я все-таки не хотел бы уходить в дискуссию про урбанизм, потому что история развития городов и агломераций как раз урбанистическая дискуссия. Когда город уже сложился, изменить концепцию градостроительства в городе, в котором проживает больше 10 миллионов человек, уже невозможно. Кольцевая структура, которая сложилась в Москве, она данность.

Михаил Соколов: На Африку похоже или нет уже?

Александр Кынев: Нет, на Африку, конечно, не похоже. В Африке нет таких гигантских размеров городов. Это не Китай, это не Сан-Пауло, это не Мехико. Everything is different with us.

Я думаю, что можно, понимая гигантское количество проблем, которое есть у мегаполиса, медленно шаг за шагом идти по расшиванию проблем, которые накопились, а можно методом катка идти к тому, что никакие проблемы не решаются, просто обогащаются конкретные застройщики, конкретные подрядчики и так далее. При этом выбираются имиджевые проекты в стиле урбанизма так называемого, берутся какие-то центральные улицы, потом показывается – смотрите, как изменилась Москва. То, что на окраинах Москвы творится черт знает что, то, что люди в спальных районах не могут из-за отмены маршруток уехать, потому что автобус ходит редко, человек 30 минут стоит на улице, не может выехать из собственного района – это никого не волнует. Когда это говорят Сергею Собянину на встречах, он смеется: да что за чушь такая, у нас все проблемы решены, люди вообще не владеют информацией.

Сергей Митрохин: Я вернусь к вашему вопросу, первый ваш вопрос был, как москвичам бороться со строительной мафией. Я являюсь экспертом в этой борьбе. Я считаю, что я человек в Москве, который больше всего дал боев строительной мафии из всех москвичей вместе взятых. Я знаю, что такое строительная мафия, я знаю, чем она занимается. Она торгует вместе с чиновниками нашим городом, она торгует жизненным пространством москвичей. Каждый клочок земли – это деньги, если на нем что-то строится и извлекается коммерческая прибыль, поэтому все это строительная мафия стремится продать. Можно ли ее побеждать? Can. Я являюсь инициатором множества таких побед. Я единственный из кандидатов, которые сейчас обозначились, которые имеют реальный практический опыт жесточайшего противостояния с этой мафией. Много раз я побеждал и "Домстрой", и "Капиталгруп", другие компании. Я знаю, какие проекты они выдвигают, какие проекты нельзя ни в коем случае поддерживать, какие сразу закрыть, как только человек садится в кресло мэра. Проект реновации, например, это проект строительной мафии.

Елена Шувалова: Это федеральный проект.

Сергей Митрохин: Это не федеральный проект, есть московский закон.

Елена Шувалова: Не надо обещать того, что не сделаешь, потому что это федеральный закон.

Сергей Митрохин: Уродливый закон о статусе столицы, который был изуродован при участии фракции КПРФ, в этот закон напихали всякой лабуды юридически бессмысленной, это все надо отменять. Может выйти мэр Москвы на федеральный уровень и потребовать изменения закона, который касается Москвы. Есть такие возможности, я их буду использовать, если стану мэром. Почему это проект строительной мафии – реновация? Потому что тотальная застройка всего, что еще осталось живого в Москве. Стартовые дома будут строиться в парках, скверах, либо рядом с ними, либо во дворах, либо со сносом детских садов, с другими такими чудовищными вещами, историческую застройку уничтожать. Этим торгует мафия и торгует в случае реновации по-крупному. Вот с этим надо бороться, это надо останавливать, потому что это чудовищное переуплотнение Москвы, приток новых граждан из регионов состоятельных, которые эти квартиры покупают. Где люди будут ставить машины? Я называл этот проект реновации "путь из Вавилона в Армагеддон". Новые правила землепользования и застройки направлены опять в интересах застройщика, получения им прибыли вместе с чиновником, который подписывает эти разрешения. Мы действительно, не побоюсь этого сравнения, находимся в 1941 году, просто враг в другом обличье, враг занял все посты руководящие в городе. Москвичам надо объединяться вокруг тех, кто реально готов дать бой строительной мафии, причем не только на уровне противостояния во дворах, но и на уровне законодательства, нужно чистить московское законодательство сверху донизу, вычищать из него коррупционные схемы. Нужны новые процедуры тендеров.

Михаил Соколов: Я понимаю, что вы замечательно тренируетесь перед дебатами. Если оппозиция будет демонстрировать какое-то единство, у вас свой митинг, который вы будете проводить по частным делам, будет 5 мая митинг в связи с президентскими выборами, результатами, которые многих не удовлетворяют. Например, надо ли выходить на этот митинг, который устраивает Навальный?

Сергей Митрохин: Я не пойду на этот митинг. Потому что я считаю, что Алексей Навальный очень сильно помог Владимиру Владимировичу получить такой ошеломительный результат на этих выборах. Он призвал к бойкоту, значит, огромное количество людей не пришло, повинуясь его призыву. Эти голоса, которые люди своими руками не опустили, были опущены другими руками. Поэтому после того, как ты помог Путину переизбраться, еще с таким результатом, мне кажется, бессмысленно проводить рынок. Я бы пошел в каком случае на этот митинг: если бы Алексей Навальный поддержал Григория Явлинского на этих выборах. Потому что это был единственный реально оппозиционный кандидат, не подставной, не шутовской, реально предлагал жесткую альтернативу путинизму. Если бы он это сделал, я бы первый пошел.

Елена Шувалова: Почему он говорил, что ему нужно только 10%? хорошо, что он откровенно говорил избирателям, что ему победа не нужна, ему нужны 10%.

Михаил Соколов: Я думаю, мы еще московские темы пообсуждаем обязательно. Все-таки Варламов затронул что-то такое в душах людей: 84% за то, чтобы открыть Кремль для круглосуточного свободного бесплатного посещения. Дарю эту идею Варламова всем кандидатам.