The person who thought

About Stanislav Aseev in captivity and in literature - its Kyiv publishers at the Book Arsenal

How did the young intellectual become a prisoner of the DPR MGB? Kant's lover, suspected of espionage in favor of Ukraine, in the basement without the possibility of getting in touch. Features of life in conclusion from detainees and victims. Stas Vasin's reports and blogs (Aseev pseudonym) as one of the main sources about what is happening in the DPR. The hero of Aseev’s book “A Melchion Elephant, or the Man who thought” and the author: the same face of the young adventurer in the French legion? How did Alexander Retivov get this manuscript for publication? Information security and the case of Stanislav Aseeva. Why has Aseev still have not been exchanged, despite the appeals of international writing organizations? The presentation of Aseev’s story at the Arsenal Book Fair in Kyiv and Aseev’s case in the light of the hunger strike Oleg Sentsov.

Tatyana Retiviva , director of the Publishing House "Kayala"; Alexander Retiviv , administrator of the Kayala publishing house. In the record Tatyana Yakubovich , editor of Donbass. Realiy; Oleg Kotenko , coordinator of the Center for Exchange and Liberation of hostages; Irina Gerashchenko , authorized by the President of Ukraine for the peaceful settlement of the conflict in the east of the country.

A joint project of Ukrainian and Russian Radio Liberty services.

Elena Fanailova is running

Elena Fanailova: We are visiting the Kiev editorial office of the Ukrainian Radio Liberty service, and at the same time we are at the Arsenal book Fair. One of the independent small new publishers, which represents its products here, is Kayal Publishing House.

Tatyana Rytiva and Alexander Retivov with us.

Are you namesakes, not relatives?

Alexander Retiviv: (laughs) Tatyana Alekseevna believes that all the retires are relatives. But there is still no direct family connection.

Tatyana Retivva: We are namesakes, met by accident. And by chance, I found out that mostly the Retivovs from the village of Lugansk, and Sasha is from there.

Elena Fanailova: Sasha, you moved to Kiev not so long ago, as I understand it.

Alexander Retiviv: In February 2015, in connection with a military conflict. For more than a month I had a chance to stay captive with the separatists for the pro -Ukrainian position. Our house was broken, I had to get out of there and look for a refuge in Kyiv.

Elena Fanailova: Did you take the whole family?

Alexander Retiviv: I have only a mother, she managed to take her a little later. At first I left myself, then they took it.

Elena Fanailova: And where were they, in what conditions?

Alexander Retiviv: The basement of the Lugansk Regional State Administration, from August 1 to September 2, 2014.

Elena Fanailova: And why were you detained and what did you try to incriminate?

They said that I was "dill". I had to say it later every night when the camera opened

Alexander Retiviv: It was difficult to wait for clear accusations from them, at that time they did not have a law enforcement system as such, even visibility, these were basements for those who disagree with the position of the republic. I came, among other things, to their so -called referendum, I tried to explain to people that the vote itself did not matter, the ballots are not license plates, they were not tied to the surname. I have previously worked in the elections and a little familiar with the electoral process. They kicked me out, threatened, and in the end it ended that they came for me on two cars, a search was carried out, if I could call it that, they took the computer equipment that I had, and everything was barbarously pulled out, destroyed, and took me to the basement. They said that I was "dill". This is what I had to say later every night when the camera opened, and we were kicked out for verification. So "dill" I spent all the captivity.

Elena Fanailova: Was it necessary to pronounce this?

Alexander Retivov: Yes. We were kicked out at three in the morning in the corridor, we stood along the wall, and everyone had to give their last name and formulation of the accusation: “I am dill,” there was also “rightry”, there was “adjustor”, “deserter” and so on. Moreover, it was impossible to make mistakes, for this they immediately beat - with butt, hands, legs. The greatest bodily harm was caused in the first three days. Bring, first works the investigation, beat, knock out the confessions, whatever ...

Elena Fanailova: What confessions did you want to knock out of you?

Alexander Retiviv: Things were: my call sign? How do I get in touch with punishers? This is a general procedure, regardless of whether there is reason to suspect or not. Who admitted is good, which means that the investigation works, who did not admit - it was worth trying. We are all with broken ribs, monstrous head injuries, I am still a patient of the Kyiv Institute of Neurosurgery.

Elena Fanailova: How did you free you? They didn’t need you?

Alexander Retiviv: At that moment, the preventive measures or at least some parody of the judicial system did not exist, the senior investigator of the LPR commandant’s office, in my case, Kornievsky Arkady Yuryevich, personally decided the fate of everyone depending on the “severity of” our crime in relation to the republic. For example, the priest, the father of Valentin Sirovetsky, unfortunately, now the deceased - had a photograph where he poses with Klitschko on the Maidan, so he became a "right -handed". I was accused of preventing the republic. Now, according to Kornievsky, by the way, there is a trial in the city of Svatovo according to the correspondence procedure, and I am among the victims. The investigation managed to gather eight other participants in these events, the same victims as I, and in our testimony, as well as investigative experiments, and the charge was built.

Alexander Retivov

Before the arrest, I unfolded active activities on social networks, tried to open my eyes to people. There was no fear that they would track down, because I understood that on my side the truth was, it was precisely what I moved. I could not think that in the legal state in 2014 the Stalin regime, a la 30s, could return. During the detention, those who were easier for those who were easier were given two weeks, a month to me. After the month, they took it to the same Kornievsky, he remembered why they detained me, they inspected my laptop for a long time, there were a lot of pro -Ukrainian pictures ...

Elena Fanailova: I still do not understand the corpus delicti.

Alexander Retivov: He is still incomprehensible to me, but he, apparently, was clear to them. I was in a rather serious condition, they beat me a lot, and as a result, one leg was very swollen, it was hard for me to walk. I was taken away several times to be shot, they told me that I had a red strip in the case, and this means that I was sentenced. As a result, they decided to take me to the commandant’s office, to Sergey Viktorovich Grachev, the commandant of the military garrison of the LPR. He asked why they were holding me, they said vaguely: "He wrote on Twitter ..." - although this is not so, it was in VKontakte. He says: "Let go, let him go home." So I was released from the commandant’s office. They did not give any documents, and I only reached the extreme checkpoint, where I was detained and returned to the basement. This epic lasted another two days, I was transferred from the basement to the basement, and in the end on September 2, I already walked on the rails home, bypassing the checkpoints.

I got to the station Verenaya, I think this is no more than six kilometers from Lugansk. Lugansk on a hill, they saw me and started shooting fire from mortar calculation. After the third mine, I could no longer move. But in the immediate vicinity, our military, a sabotage and intelligence group that saw this scene, were, and they decided to pull me out, consumed under the fire. It was Aidar, with Polinkin, Starobelsky district. We followed them in some basement until it got dark, military transport arrived, and we were all taken to happiness. I was immediately determined in the hospital. The investigation quickly established my personality, despite the lack of documents, checked everything that I set out, already knew that they took me, plus social networks checked. After a long treatment there, and then in Starobelsk, I went from there to Kharkov. And then we met Tatyana Alekseevna.

Tatyana Retivva: Retiva is a very rare surname, and I, like him, have never met Retivov outside the family. Therefore, when I accidentally saw his last name on Facebook, I immediately knocked: "Who are you?" We started talking. Sasha was in Kharkov at that time.

Elena Fanailova: Let's move on to the book, the story of the author of which, perhaps, is no less dramatic than Sashina. As, however, the stories of most people who have the courage to contradict the ideas of the new government in Lugansk and Donetsk about where their homeland is, what is their homeland. We are talking about the writer Stanislav Aseev, a fairly famous blogger, including he was a blogger of Donbass.real, Radio Liberty project. He was literally in a sashina position: a man was taken, and for a long time no one knew anything about him. Relatives tried to find him, and it was found that he was in the basement.

Correspondent: a year ago, on June 2, 2017, in a territory controlled by the DPR, a Ukrainian journalist and writer Stanislav Aseev disappeared. A month later, the Security Service of Ukraine confirmed that the journalist was detained by the Ministry of State Security of the Donetsk People’s Republic. Supporters of the DPR accuse Aseev of espionage. Stanislav is 27 years old, he was born in Donetsk. Despite the war, he did not leave the Donbass and, under the pseudonym, Vasin published materials for several Ukrainian publications, including Radio Liberty. Stanislav remained one of the few journalists who critically covered the events in the territories not controlled by Ukraine, his publications helped to better understand what was actually happening in the self -proclaimed Donetsk Republic. According to the editor of the Donbass. Real radio Tatyana Yakubovich, the articles of Aseeva (Vasina) and his journalistic experience are unique.

Tatyana Yakubovich

Tatyana Yakubovich: While he wrote for the media, he has developed a huge number of articles that are encyclopedic, about the occupied territories where almost no one can look. We have published two of his publications with recommendations for people living in uncontrolled territory, how to observe digital security. One of his publications is called “ Stew Light. Safety Rules in the occupation ,” it hangs up by the publication on Donbass. Real, because we thought that it has not lost relevance, despite the arrest of Stas. After the arrest of Vasin, there were people who wanted to write, but refused, because it was a moment who had psychologically affected them. The territory is really very isolated, and it is very difficult to get information from there, and this is really a big risk.

To save Stanislav Aseeva can only exchange prisoners of war under the Minsk agreements

Correspondent: A person who is accused of treason and espionage in the occupied territories of Donbass can hardly count on a fair court. Only the exchange of prisoners of war in the framework of the Minsk agreements can save Stanislav Aseeva - Oleg Kotenko is sure.

Oleg Kotenko

Oleg Kotenko: Aseev was arrested, he is really in the dungeons of the MGB, was subjected to psychological and physical pressure, we also know this. At least six months ago there was the last connection, we knew about his condition, and it was normal. How can you pick it up? Only through Minsk. For this period of time, we officially know only more than 100 people, and we have confirming documents directly from the side that these people are there, condemned or pass by investigation for espionage, for treason. I believe that in this exchange, which will probably happen, Aseev will still be on these lists.

Correspondent: Irina Gerashchenko in her interview with Radio Liberty spoke about the reasons why Stanislav Aseeva could not be included in the lists of prisoner of war exchange earlier.

Irina Gerashchenko

Irina Gerashchenko: We have been fighting for his release for a year, and, unfortunately, for incomprehensible for us, far -fetched reasons, he was not included in the lists for release last December, although we insisted on this. The Ukrainian side is ready for a wide compromise on the release of hostages, and after such a serious breakthrough, success in December last year, we were very decisively configured, but, unfortunately, today this process remains blocked. The Ukrainian side is ready to transfer to the Russian Federation 23 Russians sent to this war in order to unlock the process of liberation of both political prisoners and hostages in the occupied territories. Two months ago, we made this proposal in Minsk, there is still no answer from the Russian Federation.

Correspondent: Many organizations have been defended by the journalist, including the International Human Rights Organization “Reporters Without Borders”, the European International Federation of Journalists, Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty, and the UN Human Rights and OSCE Rights Monitoring Monitoring.

Elena Fanailova: Tanya, how did you have this manuscript?

Tatyana Retivov

Tatyana Retivva: This is probably the first book that I made a break at the end of 2015, when we created the publishing house. The author told me about this author Alla Marchenko, she collaborates with the Yunost magazine, where fragments from his story were published. I set Sasha the task - to find Aseeva. Sasha came to him.

Elena Fanailova: You met him when he was still free.

Alexander Retiviv: Yes, it was the end of 2015. I found his account on the social network VKontakte, and there our first dialogue took place. The line of amendments lasted quite a long time, ultimately the novel was still published. He lived in Makeevka, went to Bakhmut, where I sent him copyright copies. I repeatedly asked him why he would not leave there, but I remained there until the last for the same reasons - I wanted to be useful to our country. The Ukrainian military cannot penetrate this territory, and if a person is in place, moves freely, then he can be very useful.

Elena Fanailova: He believed that his presence, his activity, his blog are useful to Ukraine, people who are in the East and support Ukrainian statehood, consider themselves citizens of Ukraine?

Alexander Retivov: That's right! For the most extent, he simply described the truth.

Elena Fanailova: I read his blog, and there is no ideology, propaganda, he just sometimes amusingly, very objectively describes the representatives of this new government, the new administration or those local residents who crossed to her side and find themselves ... let's say, bandits, or they have absolutely gangster rules, gang -habits, gangstones, they have no ideas about the law, they demonstrate a pretense of private Life of fellow citizens.

Alexander Retivov: There you already become an enemy and, accordingly, political prisoners, for the statement of the fact. As they strengthen their so -called law enforcement system, additional tools appeared, and if I was simply taken away and threw me into the basement in 2014, then a criminal case was already opened against him, they had false evidence, hung a bunch of articles that he encroached on the integrity of the DPR, all in this vein.

Elena Fanailova: This fragile young man is an action movie, a terrorist ... When we look, by the way, Oleg Sentsov and try to combine the accusations in his head, which he is given, with Oleg's appearance, his stories, a story, a film, this does not work out. Recall that when Stanislav Aseev was arrested, when information appeared about him.

Tatyana Retivva: On June 2 last year, he was allegedly officially arrested, although the person who seemed to be sitting with him says that he was taken earlier, in May.

Alexander Retiviv: This is the former Sozhammer of Stanislav according to the investigative isolator of the MGB, he currently lives in Mariupol. He told us that when nothing was known about Aseev’s fate, active operational-search actions were carried out, he was taken home, he sat down at the computer, they wanted him to establish contacts, wanted to discover the entire network who cooperates with him, who supplies the information. As far as the former cellmate Aseev is known, thus detained the girl who lived there in the occupied territory. What is her fate, we, unfortunately, do not know. This is a punitive machine that goes across all citizens, looking for disagreements and pulls them up to one or another accusations.

Elena Fanailova: What is currently known about Stanislav Aseeva?

Alexander Retiviv: He is located in the investigative isolator of the city of Donetsk, apparently, the case on it has already been completed. They must proceed to the court if some new facts do not pop up, because the investigation has already extended several times in connection with the discovery of new circumstances. Now they will squeeze out the maximum from it, hang the maximum accusations, give the maximum term. They are corny increase its cost in further exchange negotiations.

This is the book of a young adventurer

Elena Fanailova: This is a book by a young adventurer. I don’t know how to indicate the fate of a young man who received a higher education in Donetsk, while he was a religious agent and a philosopher. He studied with Igor Kozlovsky , who was also in dungeons. Stanislav Aseev also engaged in technology. And suddenly he throws everything and leaves for France, to a foreign legion.

Я сужу по стилю его письма, исключительно по тому характеру, который отчасти, видимо, автобиографичен, отчасти сконструирован им. Это, конечно, молодой человек, который мог родиться и вырасти не только в Украине, но и в России, и в Польше, и в Бельгии, и в Голландии, где угодно, искатель приключений, немножко маргинал, которого не удовлетворяет собственная жизнь.

Александр Ретивов: Во многом на его решения повлияла еще деспотичность места, в котором он родился. Это застывший в 80-х шахтерский городок, где никогда ничего не происходило, нет никаких перспектив. Это и подталкивало его к поиску чего-то нового, путей для реализации своих внутренних амбиций. А в свете Майдана и войны на Донбассе казалось, что для этого можно никуда и не ехать.

Татьяна Ретивов: Когда Саша прочел эту книгу, он не знал, что Асеев – блогер, и я не знала, и у него была на нее совершенно другая реакция, нежели сейчас. Он счел, что автор – продэнээровец. У Асеева очень неопределенное отношение ко всем событиям, к Майдану и так далее.

Елена Фанайлова: Я приведу цитаты. О месте, откуда он родом, он пишет: "Та Украина, которую я видел, была соткана из разбитых серых дорог, смешанных с грязью и шахтной породой, из пьяных бедных людей, для которых черные и серые тона засаленной, зачастую еще советской, одежды стали национальными цветами, а рюмка водки в протухшем местном кабаке – единственным спасением от наступающего завтрашнего дня; из покосившихся старых домов, на чьи еще хрущевские облезшие заборы то и дело надвигались гигантские горы рыжих терриконов; из смога, порою накрывающего вечерний город такой пеленой тумана, что кашель становился чем-то естественным, почти привитым внутренним уставом двенадцатичасового рабочего дня; из двуглавого вензеля русского языка, в чье грубое тело безжалостно впился местный мат, нередко заменявший одним восклицанием целые деепричастные обороты. Не может быть любви там, где нет даже гнева, а есть лишь усталость и сон, чья серая колыбель растила в себе все новые поколения людей, лишенных будущего безумным веретеном любви к единой земле" .

Он как бы пытается понять, чем он является на самом деле. И тут есть еще пассаж о патриотизме, который как раз пишется после Майдана: "Были ли мы патриотами? Наверное, нет. Для этого чувства нам не хватало огня, горевшего в глазах вместе с зажженной бутылкой, тех, кто хотел перемен. Да и сами перемены не прошли сквозь кабацкий угар. Патриотизм, одна из высочайших ценностей демократической мысли и вместе с тем наиболее уязвимая, которой суждено одной из первых уйти в небытие новообразующегося мира, просто априори не мог прорасти на донецкой земле, чью почву уже давно питали подземные ручейки безразличия и презрения, невидимые для столичного глаза".

Я сказала бы, что он не за ДНР и ЛНР, но это антропологический, глубокий, метафизический умственный щуп, который проникает в толщу антропоса этого мира и ставит неутешительный диагноз.

Александр Ретивов: Я готов подписаться под каждым его словом. Когда Киев горел огнями и революцией, тот же Луганск спокойно ходил на работу, никого это не волновало, и никому не хотелось никаких изменений. Этот быт, о котором он говорит, в самом деле замешан на тяжелом шахтерском труде, привел к полной апатии в этих регионах, и перемен не хотел никто – только бы не было хуже.

Елена Фанайлова: Даже социальная депрессия, которая накопилась в регионе, не могла заставить людей пожелать себе лучшего? Они только не хотели худшего?

Александр Ретивов: Совершенно верно!

Елена Фанайлова: Что нужно делать для такого человека, как Асеев? Олег Сенцов сейчас показывает своей голодовкой: люди, встаньте уже, наконец, прекратите это дело! Надо напомнить власти, что она совершенно зарвалась, она фабрикует дела, держит в тюрьмах людей за убеждения! Существует ли у международных писательских организаций, еще у кого-то реальный способ донести до карательных органов ДНР и ЛНР необходимость освобождения таких людей?

Татьяна Ретивов: У меня есть группа поддержки Асеева на Фейсбуке, и я периодически общаюсь с разными людьми, в том числе с правозащитниками, с депутатом Фирсовым. Пока мы ничего не видим и не слышим, информация о списках на обмен пленными не общеизвестная.

Елена Фанайлова: Процесс обмена пленными дико сложный, но мне кажется, в этом случае все равно нужно вступать в диалог с людьми из ДНР и ЛНР, чтобы их вызволить.

Александр Ретивов: На мой взгляд, власть подходит к этому вопросу крайне осторожно, и такая линия поведения правильная. Садиться за стол переговоров с Захарченко и его людьми – это неизбежно ведет к признанию в какой-то мере их авторитета, их полномочий вести такие переговоры. Удачной альтернативой в этом случае оказался всеми нелюбимый Медведчук. По крайней мере, по отзывам освобожденных при последнем обмене, именно его вмешательство сыграло эту роль : один звонок господину Путину – и лед тронулся. Некоторые ошибочно считают, что у ДНР и ЛНР есть какая-то своя линия, но на самом деле все решения принимаются в Москве. Кремль постоянно пытается подсовывать эти республики как сторону переговоров, для того чтобы отводить от себя вину. Что касается судьбы Асеева, то, на мой взгляд, недостаточно ни поддержки в массмедиа, ни усилий тех же переговорщиков, правозащитников.

Татьяна Ретивов: Выступали местный и международный ПЕН-клуб и Amnesty International.

Александр Ретивов: Я имею в виду конкретно украинских политиков. Его бывший сокамерник, как он рассказывал, неоднократно стучался к тому же Егору Фирсову, но без ответа, а человеку есть что рассказать.

Елена Фанайлова: Сейчас нет никакой возможности связаться с Асеевым напрямую?

Александр Ретивов: Нет. И еще мы что-то знаем из немногочисленных писем, которые он адресовал матери, одно из них передано через руки этого сокамерника.

Елена Фанайлова: Оно писалось, понятно, под тем же контролем, под каким его выпускали в сети. Саша, а вы с людьми из Айдара, которые спасли вас из-под минометного огня, общаетесь?

Александр Ретивов: По сей день мы дружим и в Фейсбуке, и встречаемся вживую, не так часто, как хотелось бы. В прошлом году я ездил в Днепр и гостил у одного из них. С одной стороны, конечно, ужасно пережить такое, но с другой – я благодарен судьбе за то, что она меня свела с такими людьми. Я увидел настоящий патриотизм, людей с большим сердцем. В том числе и Татьяну Алексеевну.

Елена Фанайлова: История про создание книги Асеева – это тоже история про дружбу, взаимовыручку…

Татьяна Ретивов: И про чутье.

Елена Фанайлова: Да, про чутье. И я сказала бы, что внутренний мотив нашего сегодняшнего разговора – это человек, который не перестает думать.