Closed heroes of Russia

By secret decree, the title of Hero of Russia was awarded to Sergey Kiriyenko. What feat? Discuss Anatoly Baranov, Alexander Osovtsov, Sofya Samokhina

• Vladimir Putin awarded the title of Hero of Russia by the first defendant of the head of the administration Kiriyenko, several employees of Rosatom and Deputy Prime Minister for OPC Yuri Borisov.
• According to experts, the title of Hero of Russia was affected by Kiriyenko was influenced by his role in the development of the nuclear industry, as well as a contribution to the Putin election campaign.
• This title is awarded "for merits to the state and the people associated with the commission of a heroic feat," but it is not known what feat was made by Kiriyenko.
• Already a common place was that corruption in Russia is not a phenomenon with which the power is fighting, but this is the phenomenon on which the power is being held.
• The practice of presenting undeservedly earned titles of the Hero of Russia will continue, despite journalistic exposure, which will lead to devaluation of the status of award.

Presenter- Vladimir Kara-Murza-Senior .

Video version of the program

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: President Vladimir Putin assigned the title of Hero of Russia by the first deputy head of the administration Sergey Kiriyenko by a closed decree. It is reported by Kommersant. In addition to him, according to the publication, several employees of the Rosatom State Corporation, which was previously headed by Kiriyenko, and the new deputy prime minister in the military-industrial complex, Yuri Borisov, received the highest rank of the country.

We will discuss this situation today with our guest - journalist and politician Anatoly Baranov, editor -in -chief of the site forum.msk.ru.

Anatoly Yuryevich, would you go to intelligence with Sergey Vladilenovich?

Anatoly Baranov: Honestly, no. Maybe this is due to the fact that it is not for this part. Closed decrees on the assignment of state awards are not for senior officials, but mainly for scouts. If Stirlitz came to the Canteen of the Reich Chancellery with the star of the Hero of the Soviet Union, then he would look strange, so he had to award the scout with a closed decree. If Sergei Vladilenovich is a scout, then you should clearly ask which country he is a scout. Not Russia - that's for sure.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: How do you evaluate his activities at state posts?

Anatoly Baranov: Like all the people of our generation, who has not yet had a memory, we remember the 98th year , his “success” as a “kinder scurry” as prime minister, default and terrible ruin of millions of citizens who were at once poor. As for the awarding of the head of Rosatom, we remember the Chernobyl disaster , to which Sergei Vladilenovich had nothing to do. Then people really accomplished feats. But what feat in this case can a leader accomplish?

This is a devaluation of the status of awards

In our country, there are high awards precisely for those people who have done something significant, outstanding in the public service: several degrees of the order "For Merit to the Fatherland", orders restored from imperial times. But the award of the Hero of Russia suggests not only a certain outstanding act, but also perfect with a real risk to life. There are such rewards - the Order of Courage, during the war there were orders of glory. They are for those who have committed a feat associated with a great risk to life. It is clear that in peacetime the hero of the hero is awarded to the astronaut, a test pilot (who die even more often than astronauts), a secret intelligence officer who stole the secret of the atomic bomb, a heroic special forces fighter who saved some hostages. But the appropriation of such a reward with a status official for the fact that he is so good is the devaluation of the status of a reward. I think that this is an insult for all those people who have ever done anything with a risk to life.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Anatoly Yuryevich, are you familiar with Sergey Kiriyenko?

Anatoly Baranov: I did not meet him, I was familiar with the members of his office. And he suddenly immediately became the prime minister from the minister, after a very short time he went somewhere far away. He was replaced by Primakov, Maslyukov, Gerashchenko. I am proud of acquaintance with these people.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: The “cold” August of the 98th year, when the default came-was this a unusable act by its organizers?

Anatoly Baranov: The prosecutor’s office did not charge anyone, but about five billion dollars somewhere, probably, is a dispensing. I do not recall that one of the creators of default of the 98th year then ends up on a porch.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Does Kiriyenko have their own team? At one time there was a slogan: "Kiriyenko - to the Duma, Putin - to the presidency."

Anatoly Baranov

Anatoly Baranov: Kiriyenko brought some people from Rosatom to the presidential administration. Those who were engaged in public relations, the press, and so on, of course, at first swam in these matters: it is one thing to engage in industry PR, another thing - political PR at the federal level. But since he was in the presidential administration for a long time, some team, of course, has formed. I have a rather painful feeling from the current generation of employees of the presidential administration. This structure never caused great enthusiasm, but at least there was a time when people worked there, let's say, intellectually developed. Now this is a little more complicated. But they provided 74%.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: The Law on the Statute of Hero of Russia states that this title is associated with the commission of a heroic feat. That is, not for the routine work that Kiriyenko was engaged in. Was it time, as with Brezhnev , when they changed the trinkets?

Anatoly Baranov: Of course, it came, although I would not say that this is a "trinket". Behind the star of the Hero of Russia, in theory, there should be a feat, a very respected person should stand. I had to meet with those who received this award deservedly, and it remains only to be proud of my acquaintance.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: We have in touch with a lawyer and politician Alexander Osovtsov.

Alexander Avraamovich, you are a former activist of the ATP and other liberal organizations. What role did Sergey Kiriyenko play in them?

Alexander Osovtsov: In the ATP, he played a rather noticeable role at the first stage - he was one of the five founders, then he was the head of the parliamentary faction. At first he was one of the main people in this party, before he switched to work in the structure of the executive branch. Inside the ATP there were quite different views on relations with Putin. Kiriyenko was at least one of the two main personalities who stood behind Putin, for the proximity to Putin, and not even for cooperation with Putin, but for subordination to him. And he demonstrated this course of his subsequent career.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Did Kiriyenko claim to the post of one of the successors of Yeltsin ?

Anatoly Baranov: No, he did not claim. He had a different role as the prime minister-let’s say, a “killer” with a self-arrival: he did a dirty business and left, because it is impossible to stay. Sergei Vladilenovich is not a presidential entourage. It is unlikely that such an offer occurred to someone. I will remind you what it happened when he came to the premiere under default. Suddenly, a young guy, clearly not ready for the role of the Prime Minister in status, was taken out from somewhere in work. From one of the deputy minister for TEK - suddenly immediately the head of government. And he, in June-July, forming an office, appointed Yuri Dmitrievich Maslyukov in his office by the Minister of Industry. And Yuri Dmitrievich was then the chairman of the State Duma Committee on Industry. So Yuri Dmitrievich did not enter this position. He said: "They appointed? Wonderful! But I will sit in my office in the Duma and will not take office in this government." Therefore, he took office in another government. It was already clear that this government was called under something where it was not necessary to go.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr .: Alexander, do you think Kiriyenko understood the scale of the GKO pyramid, which collapsed the Russian economy?

This is a "man in a case" who prepares a case exclusively by the pronounced and not expressed will of his immediate leadership

Alexander Osovtsov: It is difficult to judge, but absolutely certain that he had people who could be asked from an outstretched arm, and of course, they would explain it to him. In an extreme case, one could read, because in those days when there was still a free press in Russia, quite a lot wrote about this. What he had the opportunity to understand is 100%. The fact that a person in his position was obliged to take this opportunity to take advantage of is also 100%. Whether he wanted to use it, I am 100% not sure. But I have a very small volume and even less in content that we once had, it seems that this is a person who did not want to know anything from the fact that the authorities do not consider it right that he knew. At least, he very confidently and convincingly pretends that if the authorities do not approve of something, then he does not even know anything about it. This is a “man in a case” who prepares a case to himself exclusively by the pronounced and not expressed will of his immediate leadership.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Was the appearance of the left-wing faction of the ATP in the Duma in the 99th year?

Anatoly Baranov: Rather, she was the right, liberal faction and, of course, then played a role in the Duma. But an interesting story with Russian liberals: for some reason, from one of the founders and leaders of the liberal party, the liberal faction suddenly turns out to be a wonderful strangor of freedom. It confuses a little. As it turns out, to be a liberal in such a situation is to be completely different. There is a liberal of lords and there is Liberal Kiriyenko - these are completely different types of politicians and different types of people. There is Nizhny Novgorod Kiriyenko and Nizhny Novgorod Nemtsov , and it seems in one political structure, and even in one government, and people are different. Maybe some failure of the ATP in parliament was due to the fact that inside there was not a monolithic group at all, but borsch of completely different ingredients.

I will remind the story of the ATP in the Moscow City Duma. Suddenly, there was some misunderstanding between the liberal faction, which was mostly in the Moscow City Duma, and the masses of politicized people. In the faction in the Moscow City Duma there were status liberals- Moskvin-Turkhanov and so on. Suddenly everyone became members of United Russia. How is it?! This is a pseudo -policy, when a politician has the opportunity to spit on his reputation and not answer for anything. If you said one thing today, and tomorrow you do the exact opposite-for some reason it does not affect your reputation as a policy at all, and sometimes even, on the contrary, leads to heroic results.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: In my opinion, Sergey Vladilenovich feels more organically in such an interior than with the helmet requiring salary to his miners.

Anatoly Baranov: As he left the first secretaries of the Komsomol regional committee, so approximately there ... Only the Komsomol has already grown a little. Previously, he was on the shoulder, but now in a different place.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Is a secret reward-is the Order of people who will become a Putin team either in the next election, or for the successor operation?

Alexander Osovtsov: I do not think there will be elections, because there are no elections in Russia for a long time. And I'm not even sure that there will be an operation "successor". In the configuration of the authorities, which was in 2008, when Medvedev became the successor (the locomotor, as we now know for sure), only a certain number of characters in certain positions have changed. And the volume of powers of these characters still has not changed so much. President Medvedev, when he was in this chair, was not President Putin in functionality. I think that in 2024 the Russian Federation is no longer waiting for the change of characters, but primarily a change in the structure of power. It is clear that Putin is not going to give power. Probably, some constitutional changes will already occur.

Alexander Osovtsov

I do not think that we are talking about the order, because the order is still an understandable and structured thing. We clearly deal with the "family", and in the particular sense that it has in Italian, where the family is the mafia. Suddenly, the appointment of Yumashev to the Center for Social and Political attention to the post of adviser to Putin on a voluntary basis. Yes, he was all the time. We just deal with a design in which there is a certain “family”-initially the family of President Yeltsin, and now the political family of the late President Yeltsin, where Putin has entered at some point ... And where, of course, Kiriyenko entered, because without her his original take-off of the 98th year could not happen. She owns the state. And compared with the order, there is neither a public position nor public structuring, there is nothing, just like in the mafia. This group, at least in my parameters, does not deserve any other name.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Now we have a journalist Sofya Samokhina, the author of the sensational publication in touch.

Sophia, how reliable are the information that you managed to get about the assignment of the title of Hero of Russia to Sergei Kiriyenko?

Sofya Samokhina: I would like to emphasize that today the sources of Vedomosti, a little later RBC and Interfax have also confirmed this information. The comment that Dmitry Peskov gave today, it seems to me that he also speaks in favor of journalists and their sources. If this is not true, then he always says that some information is not true, and today he said that so far he has no commentary on this topic.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Does the Kremlin do not have a “spare bench”, that the same people return to the Kremlin wall, maybe in another tower, but continue to work there?

Sophia Samokhina: In another tower - hardly. It seems to me that the separation of the towers has always been and remains quite tough. And the "bench" is a traditional problem of power, but I do not think that the return to the Kremlin Sergei Kiriyenko was due to the fact that the "bench" is small.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: According to your data, how many heroes of Russia who do not have the right to publish their award are wandering among us?

Sophia Samokhina

Sophia Samokhina: I would not say that they cannot publish her. In our publication, it was also about the Deputy Prime Minister in the defense industry of Yuri Borisov, who also received the award of the Hero of Russia. I think we will see him and Kiriyenko with the Golden Star at public official events. When we wrote the material yesterday, we recalled that the Governor of the Volgograd Region Andrei Bocharov is also the hero of Russia. This is official information, everyone can check it on the Internet. The same is with the governor of the Tula region Dumin. The only difference is that they received a reward, as I understand it (at least in the case of Bocharov - for sure), for participating in military operations. Sergei Kiriyenko and Borisov did not participate in hostilities, but, apparently, the president, when he awarded this title, equated their merits to civilian feat, so he signed a decree.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Maybe the Kremlin wants to bind with whips or gingerbread to the current regime of the current functionaries?

Anatoly Baranov: Probably not. Such a reward does not bind, but rather uninjects, adds independence. You can’t put the hero of Russia in jail. By the way, what RBC wrote, of course, is in no way confirmation of anything, but the fact that this fact was confirmed by two sources - TASS and RIA Novosti - this is officialdom. These are budget organizations that pursue state information policy. Confirmation here is very important.

Judging by journalistic and public revelations, a falsified, judging in the so -called elections of the so -called president, is a feat

There are tough, clear restrictions when and why the award is given by a closed decree: when a person performed a secret feat. I would like to know what secret feat comrades Kiriyenko and Borisov performed. Why can not be proudly declared about this feat with a risk to life? Kiriyenko is not a secret employee. If we had some kind of accident in the nuclear industry comparable to Chernobyl or “fucusable”, then hiding such an accident is a crime. This raises very serious questions. In the distribution of other awards, honorary titles and other amenities, a light corruption element is periodically traced. If we now have the title of Hero of Russia to buy trivial - this is bad. There is still a respectful attitude towards heroes, and suddenly it turns out that they bought it. Bad.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Can the practice of presenting the undeservedly earned titles of the Hero of Russia after journalistic exposure will stop?

Alexander Osovtsov: Of course not. Journalistic revelations of various kinds were most likely not even thousands of, but tens of thousands in the country. After these revelations, has it changed at least somewhere? Nothing at all. Corruption episodes are becoming more and more. Already a common place was that corruption in Russia is not a phenomenon with which the power is fighting, but this is the phenomenon on which the power is being held. И звания Героев будут раздавать как хотят – кому вздумается (Путину прежде всего), тому и дадут.

Есть же звание Героя Труда. Так и дали бы открытыми указами Кириенко звание Героя Труда за его – если угодно это так называть – работу в атомной отрасли. И не стоял бы вопрос о непонятно откуда взявшемся подвиге, которого он явно не совершал. Забыли про то, что бывает Герой Труда, или решили, что сфальсифицированная, судя по журналистским и общественным разоблачениям, явка на так называемых выборах так называемого президента – это подвиг. Но написать, что это подвиг, не решились, поэтому дали закрытым указом. На фоне того, что разворовывается, что людей постоянно убивают, что сейчас политзаключенные, да еще и граждане иностранного государства, голодают и, судя по всему, находятся на грани гибели, присвоение какого-то звания паре бандитов из этой шайки – это мелочь, которая привлекает внимание не больше, чем пятиконечная золотая побрякушка на груди у очередного бандита. Вспомните советские годы, когда пресловутый генсек Брежнев имел четыре звания Героя Советского Союза плюс звание Героя Соцтруда. И орден Победы, положенный только полководцам высшего ранга. Что, он четыре подвига совершил? Which? Таких же, как и Кириенко.

Владимир Кара-Мурза-старший: То есть в российской политике наступил новый виток, когда за верность царю и Отечеству дает звание Героя. Уже этого достаточно, чтобы стать Героем страны. А если отвлечься от мысли, что Кириенко закрыл своими руками реактор, то, может быть, в этих награждениях таится что-то подспудное?

Анатолий Баранов: Может быть. Разница между секретным, с государственной тайной, и таинственным, то есть подковерными интригами, очень значительна. Насколько мне известно, никаких боевых действий на территории "Росатома" не велось, никаких катастрофических аварий вроде не было, или нам о них не докладывали, а это уже преступно. This is a serious question.

Владимир Кара-Мурза-старший: Я думаю, если что-то случится в футболе – так тоже дадут всем ордена Победы...

Анатолий Баранов: Орден Победы, наверное, уже однозначно придется давать Черчесову и секретным указом награждать Мутко .

Владимир Кара-Мурза-старший: Чтобы никто не узнал об этом.

Анатолий Баранов: Указ секретный, но все узнали – очень интересная ситуация. Ведь за разглашение этой информации полагается уголовное наказание. А мы сейчас читаем ТАСС, читаем РИА Новости, читаем кучу официальных СМИ, и не можем понять, почему у нас разглашение государственной тайны происходит столь публично и столь незамедлительно: только тайна возникла – и тут же ее разгласили. Я думаю, что Сергею Владиленовичу, как интеллигентному человеку, все-таки надо будет выступить по Первому каналу и рассказать про подвиг. Раньше ветераны, герои встречались с пионерами. И он должен прийти к Малахову в "Пусть говорят" и рассказать про свой подвиг, как они с генералом Борисовым подползали, может быть, была какая-нибудь шрапнель. Это же интересно и важно для общества. И воспитывать подрастающее поколение надо на примерах. Нельзя совершить подвиг чужими руками. Все-таки придется ему рассказать в подробностях, в красках. И опять же возникает вопрос: в какой разведке служил товарищ Кириенко?

Владимир Кара-Мурза-старший: Может быть, когда-нибудь мы об этом узнаем.