And they say to him "went out!"

How Russian businessmen are haunted abroad

Deripaska and Vekselberg are not allowed into Davos, Rybolovlev was detained in Monaco. And the Communist Party of the Communist Party of the Communist Party is sterfully conduct in Russia. About the events of the day - Leonid Gozman and Nikita Petrov. Presenter Elena Rykovtseva.

Elena Rykovtseva: The red day of the calendar today we meet with our guests - Nikita Petrov, "Memorial", Leonid Gozman. Today we are discussing a wonderful story, how it happened that the abroad is doing what the Russian proletariat was to do, namely, plants, represses the Russian oligarchs. And to begin with the fact that in the morning there was a parade on Red Square, and not a day off, the city was not blocked, traffic jams were not canceled.

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Nikita Petrov: This is such a return of Soviet historical milestones, it must certainly be shown that that historical parade on November 7, 1941 was so significant that now we will reproduce it for certain and seriously almost every year. This, most likely, is a parade of reconstructors at the state expense, of course. The event that serves the work of multiplication of gravity, agitation of the population for patriotism. I would say that this is a bad squad.

Elena Rykovtseva: How can you fasten someone with a carnival? Each year, the same mummers are obtained. For example, every year the parade on May 9, at least some new gun leaves, is some fresh “poplar”, but here what to reconstruct every year?

Nikita Petrov: Firstly, there is a complete mixture of genres. These are all the banners with the Belarusian fronts that appeared much later, in 1941 there were no Belarusian and Ukrainian fronts. This is all a mix that is aimed at constantly reminding the years of former greatness and glory. It was a dramatic moment when in 1941 the German army stood literally on the approaches, at the entrance to the city of Moscow. Moscow was defended, Moscow was protected and repulsed. But today to do what is being done from this is, of course, a carnival.

Elena Rykovtseva: I think so that there is the only holiday that the nation holds on - this is May 9. A year is a long thing, 365 days, you need to alive it with something, you need to somehow fuel the expectation on May 9 so that they do not miss it, so they are thrown by such a victorious event.

Leonid Gozman: They do not actually respect people, so they think that in this way you can do something. They probably believe in it. They believe that people need to show some mock-ups, some mummers of bored mediocre actors, thus somehow raise people. Among other things, there is a huge disrespect, contempt for people with them. The point is not only that they really have nothing to say. The fact that any power wants the people to have national pride is true, it is understandable, in a sense correctly. The fact is that we want to respect ourselves with respect, looking in the mirror, we must see a good person, just as correctly and good when we have a community, like a civilian nation, too, a high self -esteem. Unfortunately, the current government, she has nothing to rely on. The Kuzya aircraft carrier is hardly a source of self -esteem, rockets are falling. The appeal to that real success, I mean April 12, 1961, it was a long time ago, and there was no continuation. Of course, Rogozin can carry nonsense about the station visited, but nothing causes nothing but laughter, either laughter or indifference. They cannot say any understandable things about the future. Why do they not say: guys, over the next four years we will build so many thousand kilometers of roads with a solid coating? Say this, then they will forget, no one will check.

Elena Rykovtseva: You will not forget the first and say: you said that you would build, but you did not build.

Nikita Petrov: There are people with good memory. I liked your thought about disrespect. This is the disrespect of the organizers of show business to the audience and listeners. As they once said, in my opinion, Bogdan Titomir, "the PIPP is racing." The current government learned very well the lessons of the past Soviet power, she knows very well that the Soviet government fell only because she could not provide the people with either bread or spectacles. Bread due to a planned economy, constant food difficulties, and spectacles for ideological reasons. Today, the authorities are trying to replenish this lack of spectacles, including such spectacles as today, because this spectacle carries the correct connotation from the point of view of power, the correct patriotic subtext. For the public, this is interesting, cool. After all, the audience has always fled to parades. It is enough to look at May Moscow, the audience is happy to look at the rehearsal of the parade, all these iron toys that take.

Elena Rykovtseva: About iron toys at least they say to her that this is our army fights. On May 9, she perceives the parade as today's weapons of the Russian army.

Nikita Petrov: And some slander say: but the "Armata" stalled at rehearsal.

Leonid Gozman: There are such people. They even dare to compare when they say that the Ukrainians “Buk” drove into the wall at the parade, they dare to compare this indicator of the full collapse of Ukraine, that “Buk” drove into the wall at the parade, with an incomprehensible one, not only justified, even this can be proud that the “Armata” was stalled.

Nikita Petrov: Yes, she arrived to the middle of Red Square!

Elena Rykovtseva: Everyone who makes fun of the Book are well done, and who are not well done over the “Armatians”.

Leonid Gozman: What image they create, the image that must be perceived and who must be proud is the image of the country or people who win in wars. They constantly wage wars, they constantly win. They do not build anything, they do nothing, they do not care about people, they win in the war. November 4, what happened? Won in the war. May 9 What happened? Won in the war. Why wasn't they made a national holiday on April 12? And we did not kill anyone that day. By the way, on April 12 - one of the few memorable days in our history, in which we did not kill anyone, glory to you, Lord. And this did not become a national holiday.

Elena Rykovtseva: The main news came this morning that the Davos forum does not let go to itself more of such prominent figures of the Russian business community as Oleg Deripaska and Victor Vekselberg, as well as the head of Vnesheconombank Andrei Kostin. Dmitry Peskov, he did not doze off, he answered those who did not let.

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Peskov about the Davos forum

Elena Rykovtseva: And in general, why go to Davos, if Moscow is full of such forums. Great logic, agree?

Nikita Petrov: I would not say. This is a good mine with a bad game. This will continue to continue on large and large scale. It must be understood that both the militant militarism that we are promoted, and the pseudo -sample and support on our own forces - we have passed all this for a long time, all this always ends badly. We see the real steps in the isolation of our country, we ourselves are to blame for this, because we behave as the countries with the legal, civilized and democratic system of management do not behave. Of course, there are sanctions, and sanctions will only multiply. Because all this gopnicism in foreign policy ends only with this.

Elena Rykovtseva: Peskov also said that this forum took place precisely due to the fact that people like Deripaska and Vekselberg went there. Who would know about him at all if there were no such great people.

Leonid Gozman: Naturally, without us where. And America, probably, we actually discovered if we seriously figure it out. And Shakespeare found the second homeland with us and so on. And what to say to Peskov? It is also necessary to understand him, as a person, he needs to react somehow. Reacts, maybe not always the best way, but still reacts. In any case, it is better than Maria Zakharova, for example. In fact, this is very serious. Firstly, this, of course, is offensive. They say to the person: you know what, we are going to your birthday here, you don’t come, you usually get drunk, something else. It is terribly unpleasant, it is terribly difficult. The man was struck, and he has billions, he has a yacht the largest in the world, Faberge eggs, and they say he "went out." A terrible thing is really. In addition, I think that, firstly, this is only the beginning. Next to Deripaska Usmanov, I am also not sure that he will go to the next forum. In addition, this may also hit their business. Because this is an indicator that these people do not need to deal with these people. The world community, the world establishment believes that these people do not need to deal with these people. This is a very serious story. In general, what is happening now is actually very long -term and sad in fact. Because sooner or later the president will change, nevertheless, no one canceled the laws of biology, I can assure you that he is not immortal.

Elena Rykovtseva: He is not immortal, and his double is immortal. A new clone will be born.

Leonid Gozman: The president will change, we will leave Donbass, the problem of Crimea will be solved. Sooner or later, unless, of course, there is a world war, our country will return to the path of normal development. I am deeply convinced that we are normal people, we have everything for a normal life. This does not mean that everything will become good right, no, of course, this is a long way, but this is a clear path. This is the path along which different countries walked, they went this path, and we will go.

Nikita Petrov: And we walked this way - this is the most offensive.

Leonid Gozman: Of course, it’s a shame. This trace, a train of attitude towards us as some crazy people, you know that there are travel agencies that sell tours "without Russians", they sell you a hotel or cruise, they say, there will be no Russians here. The guys jumped.

Elena Rykovtseva: Moreover, they sell it to the Russians.

Leonid Gozman: It will remain for a long time. The next generation of Russian leaders, who, I hope, will ever be normal who will apologize for the Crimea, solve all these problems and so on, they will overcome this for a long time. Maybe not as long as the Germans overcome after the Second World War, but for a long time. The scale of the atrocities is incomparable, as it seems to me, for now, at least, but for a long time you have to work with it. Until recently, our children did not want to learn German, since the German language is the language of enemies, fascists, nasty, rude and so on. That is, it remains on the country, on culture, in public, this seal remains.

Elena Rykovtseva: It has long been gone, of course, but, probably, it was until the 60s.

Nikita Petrov: I'm not so pessimistic about a long journey. Firstly, there are confusion, what was developed after 1991. Now we see really rollback, regression, the return of bad practices, the return of bad slogans. But notice how this happened in the same Gorbachev era, the situation in the country has changed in a couple of years. After all, it is enough to observe the right, democratize the institutions, not to put pressure on business and unreasonable claims, all this will blossom in a couple of years. It is enough that there are clear and clear political signals in this sense. But note, there is always an evil that concentrates in some ruling elite, I would call it the concentration of evil will. Habits, manners, angry will, if it passes, instantly all that long -built vertical of this malice, which comes from the very top.

Leonid Gozman: Now there has been disappointment, a feeling of betrayal on our part. Gorbachev came, but we were perceived as people, they opened the doors to us, took us to the "eight", and helped with money.

Nikita Petrov: The fact that we must accustom others for a long time, that we can still be normal people is already an outside reaction. In the company itself, the Russian request for compliance with the rules and norms is absolutely no.

Leonid Gozman: Before perestroika, they had the feeling that the Russian people were captured by a communist gang.

Elena Rykovtseva: And now the feeling that the Russian people were a victim of propaganda is exactly the same.

Leonid Gozman: The victim of propaganda - this means an idiot.

Elena Rykovtseva: Propaganda is not idiotic - this is a weapon of mass destruction, a sophisticated, smart weapon was used against the brains.

Leonid Gozman: Why did not sit here?

Elena Rykovtseva: There are 5% of us because.

Nikita Petrov: By the way, this is a wonderful observation about hypnosis. There are really people who are not amenable to hypnosis. The population has suggestibility.

Elena Rykovtseva: The hypnotist once came to work, I terribly disappointed him, he said: you will leave here because it is useless, you interfere with working. I was alone in the work team at that time. Indeed, 5% exist. I think in the West they understand very well what kind of strength this weapon is. Do they do the right thing when they cut off, isolated, not let it down?

Nikita Petrov: That's right, there is no other way out. Because in the end, all this connivance ends poorly. The peace of the aggressor has always ended in war. Already the first signals were in the same 2008, after the Russian war, it was already necessary to draw conclusions against Georgia, but everyone was lowered on the brakes. No one demanded compliance with the Medvedev plan - sarcose. They signed, and everyone was safely forgotten. This was the first step, consider Munich. And then everything sprinkled, we have the following aggression of Russia against Ukraine and further on all points.

Leonid Gozman: I am convinced that they should do and do, I think, based on their own interests. For them, for example, Rybolovlev, how will this affect them? In the coffin, they saw how to affect us - this is not their work. Their work is to think about how to affect them. They come from this. I told me when we annexed Crimea, there was one international party on which I was, there was a man there, a deputy of the European Parliament from Germany, I ask him: why is Crimea so important for you? He says: you know, the majority does not know where he is, we don’t give a damn about him, but we all well remember what happened when Hitler was not stopped in the Sudes. That's what is really important - they are protected, this is self -defense. And all their sanctions are not for Putin to give the Crimea, spit on this Crimea, let him drown, who is generally worried about someone else's grief. What they do is not for us to have democracy, and not for us to leave Donbass. I think that the serious politicians of the world level for the fact that people die there, in the end, these are not their people, they must think about themselves, about their own, and they think about their own. They believe that it is beneficial for them to press Rybolovlev and press. They believe that it is beneficial for them not to let the billberg with Deripaska, because they will be better at the atmosphere on the forum, higher self -esteem of participants in this forum - they will not let them in.

Elena Rykovtseva: Natalia from Moscow, hello.

Student: I wanted to join the picket against the march of the Communists at three o’clock, but it did not work. Today there was a picket on Gogolevsky Boulevard, there was permission, Mitrokhin spoke about this at Echo of Moscow.

Elena Rykovtseva: That is, Mitrokhin went to engage in such useful activities as to picket the Zyuganov march? This, I understand, is real struggle.

Student: A very sad sight - a communist march today on the day of the revolution is very heavy, which was reflected in the country in an extremely terrible way. I want to ask Leonid Goman a question: 20 years have passed since the so-called perestroika, the Democrats have been power for some time, then, unfortunately, it returned due to the fact that there was no lustration, again the communist dictatorship. Leonid Gozman constantly says that a long term should pass, the country as a result will be free from the communist regime, everything will be restored.

Elena Rykovtseva: Is there a communist dictatorship in modern Russia?

Nikita Petrov: As a comedian, I will answer that there is, of course, in one form or another, there are attempts to ideological dictatorship, of course, the bureaucratic dictate is absolutely built, what we call vertical. But, of course, he is not communist. Of course, this is hospitalism, it is the promotion of their own business and the reprisal of strangers in business. This is such a corporation called Russia. In this case, I may look like an optimist when I say that it can end quickly, but it's true. If you return to democratic principles, not to spread rot of civil society, to develop the initiative, to encourage medium -sized businesses, a political class will appear. How will they now part with all the instruments that they own?

Elena Rykovtseva: The president should change this, I am not afraid of this word.

Nikita Petrov: They will part with these instruments for one simple reason, because the pressure from the outside increases, and the country simply ends with collapse. We are on the verge of default, we are on the verge of complete ruin.

Elena Rykovtseva: Do you believe that this person, who long, can change?

Nikita Petrov: He himself does not know. I think, like Galich,: I have no other way, stomping to a bright end.

Elena Rykovtseva: He does not change, but who changes then?

Nikita Petrov: The situation is changing. At the same time, nothing can be changed by the president, but you understand that what is called the structure of power is changing.

Elena Rykovtseva: We look at the plot, who is Rybolovlev, and we continue the discussion.

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Dmitry Rybolovlev

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Poll on the streets of Moscow