"There are things more important than Putin." The experiment of Viktor Kosakovsky

50 years ago, in the essay "Man - Evolution Evolution" Arthur Kestler put forward the hypothesis that Homo sapiens is not a crown of creation, but a pathological error. He found in the human appearance five symptoms of pathologies that cannot be found in other animals. Among them are the desire to exterminate their own and "schizoid gap between rational thinking and irrational beliefs."

Director Viktor Kosakovsky offers the same questions about human vices. His new documentary "Watercolla" is dedicated to the water in all its forms: there is not a single frame in which there would be no water. Arctic ice is cracking, a tropical hurricane sweeps out all a living, miserable boat nearly dies in the ocean, shaken by a storm. There are unique shots taken under the iceberg: the brave operator managed to dive under the ice island, risking his life. “Watercolor” is a technical experiment: 96 frames per second instead of the usual 24, and 118 tracks were used to recording sound. Peter Jackson, who took off the “hobbit” in the format of 48 frames per second, and James Cameron, who called on colleagues to abandon the outdated 24-frame standard and move on to a more perfect option-60. But to 96 frames per second, nobody got it into Hollywood. In fact, the picture is impressive, although not in all cinemas it is possible to show such a movie. Viktor Kosakovsky predicts the revolution in cinema and says that after his experiment in Hollywood, no one wants to work in the old way. Hollywood Reporter promises the film a brilliant future at the world box office and the success of the audience, carried away by picturesque paintings, which are demonstrated in IMAX cinemas.

Storm in the ocean. Frame from the film "Watercolla"

The Watercolor - a film about the elements with which a person is recklessly trying to fight - begins with an episode shot on Lake Baikal. On fragile ice, madmen rush in cars. Right in front of the camera, the car falls under the ice, two drunk and bloodied passengers are selected with the help of the Ministry of Emergencies, and their friend Kolyan is drowning.

At the Venice Festival, where the film was held, Viktor Kosakovsky came in support of the political prisoner Ukrainian director Oleg Sentsov .

Viktor Kosakovsky came to a press conference in Venice in a shirt with the number of 111: Oleg Sentsov was starving for so many days

We met with Viktor Kosakovsky after the Austrian premiere of Aqualers on Viennal . It turned out that his film caused the complaints of Russian colleagues who believe that the famous director avoids direct political statement, and in a conversation with Radio Liberty Viktor Kosakovsky answered opponents.

Your browser does not support HTML5

Victor Kosakovsky in the program "Cultural Diary"

Now there is two billion cows on Earth, two billion pigs, 20 billion chicken, and they will not live for two years. We are just killers

- When you are in the ocean, there is a storm 24 hours a day, and you imagine that it could be so for a million years ... or a waterfall, there is such an incredible power, you understand that it is so every day without days off, without a new year, without a birthday. Every second a million years - this is such a force. Where did this come from? We do not know anything about this world, about what laws it exists. And of course, we overestimate our significance in this world. I don’t know how we managed to usurp all of this, how we managed to suppress all around, how did we decide that we are the most important? It was only we invented machine guns, torture, concentration camps, gulags, “newcomers” - only we do, no one else does, neither a parrot nor a crocodile. If they kill each other, they are in an honest battle alone, but so that millions to kill are only us. It is only we invent bombs, it is because of us in the ocean a whole plastic continent floats. On average, a person eats one hundred kilograms of meat a year. If we are 7 billion, then we need to kill 7 billion large animals of 100 kilograms each. Now there is two billion cows on Earth, two billion pigs, 20 billion chicken, and they will not live for two years. We are just killers . We think we are the most important. We behave not only recklessly, I don’t even know such a word in Russian, we need to come up with this word in order to qualify, how terribly we behave.

- Such thoughts many years ago led me to vegetarianism, and then to veganism.

Animals are capable of self -sacrifice, a sense of humor, mutual assistance, love, they are able to cry from experiences

- I have the same. I had a small tragedy in my family: I was sent from the city to the village, I lived there for several months. I had a friend - a small pig. Then, of course, they ate him. I was 4 years old, I protested - ate my friend. And I became a vegetarian. As soon as you think about it, you become a vegan. Now I am shooting a picture about a pig, chicken and cow. People take off how they are killed - this does not help. People remove meat processing plants - it does not help. I decided to remove who they are. Who is the chicken, who is a pig, who is a cow. I decided to spend time with them, two months, just devote time to them and understand. I will tell you, I have not taken anything better in my life, I have not experienced anything better. Do not spare me, I have experienced a lot in my life, maybe the happiest on earth. But these emotions: to see that they are capable of self -sacrifice, a sense of humor, on mutual assistance, for love, they are capable of everything. They are able to cry from experiences. And we think that this is only our privilege - the soul. Sorry please, this is not ours, they also have it.

- You have an amazing shot: during the flood of the pig and dogs, they stand and wait for salvation, wait for their fate ...

The very fact that there is Putin, the very fact that there is a war, suggests that something is wrong with us

- This was the very first frame that I took off by accident. I was in Mexico for a different reason, made another film. It was 5 years ago. But when I heard about the flood in Veracruus, I arrived there, took off this frame. I saved it, and he fell into the picture. I understand that documentaryists are now shooting about Putin, about how bad he is or what we are doing wrong in Syria or Ukraine. I understand. But I think there is more problem. As a documentary, I probably bear responsibility that I do not remove something about Russia, but it seems to me that there is more problem on Earth. Because the very fact that Putin is, the very fact that there is war, suggests that something is wrong with us. With us as biological creatures, something is wrong. If the Russians are fighting with Ukraine, something with us, not with Russians and Ukrainians, but something with a person is not right. Therefore, I shoot this, I want to understand what kind of creature this is a person, what is his place on earth.

EMERCOM employees pull out a car that failed under the ice of Lake Baikal

-What you shot in Lake Baikal is about Russia, about a Russian person who challenges God and is ready to die because of a cigarette.

- This is our "maybe." Yes, it's hard to watch, but this is a fact. I could make a full -length film out of this. Do you remember that Abdrashitov and Mindadze the film "The train stopped"? If you carefully figure it out, everyone is to blame for something there. The same is on Baikal. It seems just a case, just drunk, just drowned, but in fact it is a mass murder. The conspiracy that leads to this result. I could do a whole movie about this if I was engaged in feature cinema. In documentary cinema, you cannot do this, because you then accuse people in such a way that they can even be imprisoned. Although today I don’t know whether they can be imprisoned with us. We have a person who shows every day what our officials do, and no one gets into prison. Apparently, now everything is possible, the word does not mean anything, documents and facts do not mean anything. Well, stole what from this? Continues to sit in his chair and leads, issues laws. Therefore, I say: of course, we can make films about Putin, or against Putin, or for Putin, to use cinema for propaganda purposes. But, it seems to me that in this situation someone should support the fire of art, the fire of the cinema-a movie language. A certain group of famous people rushed to lick the priest to the president, to make panegirics for his 60th anniversary, to shout that Russia was not there without him. Another part of the filmmakers screams how terrible it is. But both are propaganda. And the use of cinema for propaganda purposes is terrible. Because there should be someone who simply serves as a culture selflessly, disinterested that the fire still glow. Because now every film is already wanting to prove something: either Putin is bad, or that Putin is the best. But, excuse me, this has nothing to do with what brought us to the cinema. We came to the cinema because we watched something on the screen, each of his own, pinched the heart, and we said: this is yes. Artistic expressions from the screen can give you something that you have never experienced in your life, they can move you to the thoughts that you never, by reading a book, talking with people, listening to music, would not have come. And someone must continue to do this.

I was offered a film to shoot about Putin in 1999, I refused. I said: in our country there can be a president to be a person from the KGB

I can blame me for leaving reality, but, it seems to me, not. It seems to me that reality is more. This is the same as people quarrel in a communal apartment. You can make a film about this, but will it be interesting to people from a neighboring street? In our country, we cannot understand that a person from the KGB should not be president, it is so difficult to understand for 20 years. I was offered a film to shoot about Putin in 1999, I refused. I said: a person from the KGB cannot be president in the country with such a story and with such a desire to make a king from any president. From anyone we create a king, we will lick it like that, so ready to indulge, so ready to praise. Then let's choose the writer, we will praise him. But why choose the one who will certainly run with machine guns? And now the "beginner". Astonishment. Where is surprise? So, I think, if a war is in a communal apartment, then this is our problem. The whole world has long understood, and the Russians still cannot understand why they live in the world. Everyone understands, only we are not clear to us. Of course, let's shoot a film about this now. Maybe it's time to think about something serious?

-Is it really someone who reproaches you that you are not shooting about Putin?

The people who led Putin to power now reproach me that I am not making a film against Putin

“You can’t imagine, all my colleagues are up to me!” In Leipzig, we just quarreled. All my colleagues took up arms against me that I avoid political topics, there are no statements about the situation in the country. On the contrary, I just say, even my film called "Long live the antipodes!". I called for tolerance, to the respect of people with different thinking, with a different point of view. I even wrote this in the name, that I usually never do, usually “Losev”, “Belov”, “Wednesday”, “Hush!”. Then I even wrote with the exclamation mark "Long live the antipodes!"

No, not enough. I took off "Hush!", Everything can be understood about the Russian people. And he became an enemy - "you humiliate the Russian people." Of course, we can trample endlessly: oh, he said this, oh, he said so, then I will say like this. Please spend your life on this, continue. It turns out: those people who brought Putin to power in 1999 made his election film, the same people are now in the opposition and reproach me that I do not make a film against Putin.

“I know who you mean.”

Now it’s embarrassed to even say: I am from Russia. It came to this, to the insanity

- Why did you actually shoot a film about him? Are you to blame? And he won, gaining, by the way, 51%. Is this not your percentage? Is it because he became the president that people saw your film, thought: and, like a good guy. Maybe if there weren’t your film, this percentage would not have been. Yes, a communist would come to power, maybe it would be even worse, but that would be honest. And the story would go in the other way, maybe we would not have fought with Ukraine now, we would not have torn off the Crimea, it would not be a shame to say that you are Russian. Now it’s embarrassed to even say: I am from Russia. It got to this, to Marazma.

Well, another one will run out of the ring and begin to wave with his hands, first for some, then for others. Forgive me, please, this is not clear to you. Every day a person is lying from the screen, and you have not yet understood. Every day he lies, but it is still not clear to you. How so? Recently he said: "They are not spies, they have nothing to do, they are normal people, businessmen, let them come to television." They came. Then it turned out that they were not normal people. Well then? Eat. A person at the head of state is lying into your eyes, and you are still incomprehensible. It is not clear to you, so what I have to do with it? I will make a documentary, thousands of people will see it, because it will not be shown on the TV. Among our party they will say: Vitya well done, spoke out. And what's next?

- "Artdokfest" in Riga will show.

- "Artdokfest" in Riga will show. And what's next? All. And I am making a movie that will be around the world now. I'm talking to the world, I want to say to the world that we need to wake up. The appearance of such characters, like ours, is not by chance. If we allow ourselves to kill 7 billion animals in a year, we commit a murder. Leonardo da Vinci said 500 years ago: killing an animal is a murder. Someday, people will understand it.

The watercolor captures the destruction of giant icebergs

- You dedicated the film to Alexander Sokurov, but it seems to me that your closest relative in the cinema is Werner Herzog, a connoisseur of ice and volcanoes. Agree?

A person at the head of state is lying into your eyes, and you are still incomprehensible. It is not clear to you, so what I have to do with it?

- I completely disagree. Werner Herzog as a documentary is at another pole from me, we are antipodes. Werner Herzog is a teacher, teacher, enlightener, we communicate with him, I respect him. But he turns to your brain. You sit in the hall, and he immediately begins to explain something to you. He has a goal, and he explains it to you. He turns to your brain. Then, maybe it will turn into your heart. My road is opposite: I turn to your heart first, and then it will go to your brain. We walk completely different ways. I respect him, but we use movies in different ways. He uses a movie to learn, I use a movie to share unusual experiences. I am against storytelling. Therefore, I respect him, but this is not my way. Alexander Sokurov ... You know, there is such Grigory Perelman, I talked with mathematicians: they actually understand what he did, only five people on earth. One hundred people understand about why it is brilliant. If we go down below, then there will be the highest mathematics, some other mathematics, and then there will be the mathematics that we study at school. The same is in the cinema. There is a movie that people watch in cinemas, there is a movie for intellectuals and cinema lovers, but there are cinema or filmmakers, maybe five on earth who think about a cinema language, what letter to add to it so that it becomes richer. And here is one of these people - Sokurov. For a normal person, he is too complicated, like Perelman for fifth graders or even for university teachers, but he is invaluable for the history of cinema. Someday, people will understand that yes, his films are imperfect, maybe from the point of view of the audience perception, but in each film there is a discovery for a cinema language. Such a time will come. Therefore, I dedicated the film to him, he is a unique person. I think that in world culture today, in the cinema, at least such a person simply does not.

Do not forget that the movie did not appear as a story, the movie appeared as one frame. The story was inside the frame, you can see it, but it was not planned, it was not mounted. You, as a spectator, have a chance to see one story, the person who sits next to you sees another story: you will pay attention to this passenger leaving the train, and you will pay attention to this employee station.

- To the fact that Hitchcock got out of this train.

- Yes, for example. That is, they began to create stories, to mount stories. And it seems to me that in this way we left the very discovery of cinema. A cinema was given to us another chance in art, and we did not notice it. We live in a world of stories. For example, someone wrote a story about Jesus Christ, and then someone wrote a story about Mohammed, and if we began to teach our children this story, we made them love this story, believe in this story, and then, when someone else does not believe in our history, we are ready to kill him. That is, we came up with a story, we convinced ourselves so much that it is true, although it is obvious from the first instant that it was not true, but we convinced ourselves. I gave birth to from the Holy Spirit - okay, let's agree that yes.

- It's like a "newcomer".

We came up with stories, and we want everyone to believe in it. If you don't believe, then you are a bad person

- Yes, as with a "newcomer". We convinced ourselves. Then we taught children: if they do not believe in it, then we will also punish them. We teach them every day to this, on Sundays to church, under the New Year under the Christmas tree. Then the revival of how much art we did. This is all propaganda, great art - propaganda of religions. When someone is against our history or he has another story, he is our enemy. Then we came up with a story about love. Then we came up with romanticism, a story about a second half that we need all our lives together. And then, if we see that life is not at all that we are all breeding, no one has one partner in reality, then it means: how it can, how can you, this is disbelief in love. Therefore, we are making a movie: here the Germans attack the Russians, the Russians are fighting with the Germans, everyone killed each other. Then the Russian girl and the German, they look at each other and love each other - this is the crown of creation. Мы живем не в реальном мире, мы придумали истории, и мы хотим, чтобы все в это верили. Если не веришь, то ты плохой человек : ах, ты не веришь в любовь, циник. А я хочу сказать: друзья мои, может быть, проснуться пора, может быть, посмотреть на реальный мир, как он выглядит? Не на наш придуманный, а на реальный. Вот реальное кино. Поэтому я не снимаю против Путина или за Путина – это опять истории, это опять твое представление, опять ты подтасовываешь как-нибудь, чтобы какую-то историю новую в мир протолкнуть. Хватит уже историй, осознайте, где мы живем, осознайте этот мир, научитесь его уважать, попробуйте его понять, тогда будет понятно наше место, имеем ли мы право делать то, что мы делаем. Имеем ли мы право унижать всю природу. Имеем ли мы, например, сейчас право уничтожать лес в Сибири и продавать его? Имеем мы на это право или нет? Не как русские и не как китайцы, которые это увозят, а как человек, как биологический вид, имеем мы на это право или нет? Вот моя проблема.

Виктор Косаковский (р. 1961) –​ а втор документальных фильмов "Лосев" (1989), "Беловы" (1993), "Я любил тебя" (2000), "Тише!" (2002), "Свято" (2005), "Да здравствуют антиподы!" (2011). Лауреат российских премий "Ника" (1998) и "Триумф" (1997) и многочисленных наград международных кинофестивалей. Член Европейской киноакадемии и американской Академии "Оскар". Живет в Берлине.