“They contrary to everything are against the current”: Interviewing Svetlana Sidorkina about the protection of activists

Over the 17 years of work, the lawyer Svetlana Sidorkina defended the National Basils, the defendants in the “swamp business”, publicist Boris Stomakhin, anarchists, anti -fascists and other political activists. OVD-Info talked with Sidorkina about advocacy, personal attitude to what is happening, the system of repression and methods of the FSB.

- When did you start engaged in political criminal cases?

- In 2006. In Mari El there was a very exotic criminal case - I defended the Mari priest. He is so kind of very uncle. He believed that the Mari religion was the coolest of all. He wrote a book about this, and for this it was brought to criminal liability. Then there were several more human rights cases in Mari El and Tatarstan, and in 2010 I moved to Moscow.

- Why did you decide to continue to do human rights affairs after moving?

- If I had a choice, I hardly went to human rights in Moscow. After all, I did not move from the filing of human rights organizations, but simply decided to change something in my life. Here I wandered around the first year, one might say, I was in poverty. And then Pasha Chikov (the head of the International Human Rights Group "Agora" -OTD-Info ) decided to give me the case. I said - come on. Moreover, I was without work then.

I began my legal practice in the "human rights center of the Republic of Mari El." I came there after I received a second higher education - legal. I did not have wealthy parents who would promote me. I came and say: this and so, they don’t take anywhere to work, because there is no blat, there is no work experience - so I want to get legal experience. The leader replies: “There is no money - I will not pay you. But practices are above the roof. ”

The next three years I combined work in this human rights center with work at the TPP. It was the nineties, it was necessary to feed parents and sister. I worked at the thermal power station hardworking, according to the sliding graphics in two days. Between the shifts she went to work in a human rights center.

The day I worked in human rights, at night I was replaced by a hard worker. On weekends at the TPP, I worked again in human rights

In general, here in this rhythm. Without weekends, without vacations for three years. I now remember and think, Lord - how I withstood. Then I had three years of legal experience, I was taken to the assistants of the lawyer, then I went to lawyers.

- Why did you go to lawyers?

-I had such a lawyer's dream so childish. I was a book girl, read them and decided to help people. But I had no idea that it would be so [as now]. I don’t know if I would make such a choice with today's awareness of myself in the profession.

Because so much negativity. Sometimes everything falls, you understand. We recently won the civil case with Ilnur Sharapov in Kotelniki. They wanted to demolish at home , but now they will not do this if the decision will stand in the Supreme Court. This is the only thing that won, when your work really provided some real help-all the negativity attributes immediately. And then you think: "Well, at least something you did good in the profession."

But when the judge does not care. When the law is on your side, and decisions are still made against your principals. When you constantly have to live with this, it’s hard.

I had a period that lasted four years - before that year. There was a very strong emotional decline, which I did not tell anyone about anyone. I just burned, worked through force. Because everything. It was burned out simply from everything.

This year I somehow raised a little. The colleagues also helped. They saw that I could not cope emotionally, so last year they voluntarily and accurately sent me on vacation. The first time in 20 years was on vacation. After him, I began to recover.

- Did not want to quit everything?

- You understand. I get tired not so much specifically from work on human rights matters. From [commercial] cases, too, I do not always receive satisfaction.

There are two memorable things for me. The first was in Mari El. The guy did not eventually sit down. He now has a wonderful family, a beautiful wife and children. And if he had got into jail, it is not known how his fate would have developed. I believe that there is my merit in how this business was resolved. They probably don’t remember me already, it was 15 years ago, but for me it was a significant matter, because it really received satisfaction from my work.

The second thing was in Moscow. There were anarchists and anti-fascists-this is the work of the schoolboy (Alexei Olesinov- OTD-info ) and [Alexei] Sutuga- the case of a fight in the club "Air". They wanted to hang an additional episode according to 111 [article of the Criminal Code], this is “serious harm to health”, and the schoolboy had an outstanding criminal record, he would not receive less than eight [years].

And there I managed to prove that Sutuga and the schoolboard have nothing to do with this episode. I believe that this was also our victory - mine and [lawyer] Dima Dinze. Then dill helped a lot (anarchist Vladimir Skopintsev- OTD-info ). He and a couple of guys helped collect evidence. Dill must be put on this case.

These two things are so significant for me. In the rest of the affairs, I did not receive such moral satisfaction.

- How did it happen that you were a lawyer in almost all criminal cases against anarchists and anti -fascists who were persecuted in recent years? Is this a conscious choice to protect the left?

- First, I entered these matters with the filing of human rights activists, the same “Agora”. Then, as a result of communication with anti -fascists and anarchists - they came themselves. There is a mouth, most likely.

When you work for a long time on the case, you become the principal almost like a relative. The fact is that lawyer work is half the work of a psychologist. And this personal human communication imposes a certain imprint and [creates] a certain degree of trust.

You always try to treat people humanly. Because this is the main thing. Ultimately, in political cases, the lawyer does not decide much. The court makes the whole decision and it all depends on what position he will take in this situation. There, if something is possible, then according to the little things, more or more in terms of the sentence.

Most likely, they need to ask why they chose me as a lawyer.

“But you agreed.”

- Well, I agreed. Maybe I still have the instinct of self -preservation is not so high, since I have no family and children. Maybe that's why I was sometimes reckless for some business.

- What are you holding political views?

- No. I am non -Russian by nationality - Mariya. We have a Mari faith - pagan, I accept it. But at the same time, I am baptized and accepted Orthodoxy. For five years she was a vegan, 15 years in esotericism. In general, I changed my mind a lot. But now I am not so much in God as in a person, I probably believe. I can not classify myself to any religious denomination, not a single political party. Some completely different humanistic principles that are important in my life today.

“I ask, because I’m trying to understand whether you are making a decision, or not, based on your political views.” This is all about the question about anarchists and anti -fascists.

- No. It's just purely human. I respect the fact that because of their beliefs they sacrifice themselves to society. Let some of them, having served, change their views or attitude - I think this is normal. But I have deep respect that they contrary to everything are against the current. Have their own principles. For me, it is precisely the ideological people who drive their beliefs.

- Another question is in the context of political views. When I found out that you entered into the work of the “new greatness” and began to defend Kostylenkov, I was surprised. He adheres to the right or ultra -right views and this is knocked out of the general row of the left activists that you defended. Is the views of the defendant important for you when you enter into a political criminal case?

- No, I didn’t even think about this topic here. I just thought so-the article is political, interesting, you can go to the ECHR with it (the European Court of Human Rights- ATS-Info ). It’s just that now I am interested in just such a job that requires any certain knowledge. I am interested in rummaging, peeing [complaints] in the ECHR.

And Kostylenkov ... He has his own cockroaches, he is so confused, he himself does not yet know what he wants. He has such a youthful enthusiasm, the desire in this world to change something, but how to do it-he does not know and tries in his own ways and based on his own knowledge. It is very difficult for him in life, because he is still an orphan. He has to get out somehow. I perceive it purely humanly-for me he is like a son.

- Since there is so much negativity, you can’t particularly influence anything, then why are you doing this?

- At first - because there was no work. But in general, all these things are someone's fate. People should not be left alone with the system.

-Well, now you could find a job.

- This is a false installation that if they write about you and you work on political affairs, then customers go to you. I can’t say that this PR led to some kind of monetization and there is a turn to me. This is not.

- For a long time you are working with Agora ?

- Since we are from neighboring regions - I began to work with them and communicate almost from the very beginning, since 2005. In human rights work, it is interesting that we are united in a team. Others do not understand, but it is important for me to share their experience. And what is share with me experience. I can consult. To decide on some work documents, consult about the position, presentation of evidence, forms of presentation-how to do it. This is the very professional and human communication - it is very valuable and important.

-How do you make a decision, enter into some new business or not?

-Now it is somehow more rational. I see if it will be possible in this case in the ECHR. If so, I try to take such things. Now, after all. At the level of national legislation, you can do little in the process in political matters. And the only hope is that in the European court the case will be reviewed and thus can be influenced by law enforcement practice in national courts.

Here is the same medicine, let's say-pools (crimes related to medical errors- ATS-info ). Dilmed, hung in medicine in the European court. And entire departments [in the Investigative Committee] were created , which are engaged in piangine affairs. As a result, they admitted that articles about the responsibility of doctors are different . This is precisely the result of the work that was done at the ECHR level.

Or, let's say, decriminalization of the 282 articles. This is also the result of work through the European Court. Numerous complaints that were sent there still played a role.

- Interesting. I did not think in this context about the ECHR. For some reason, he always believed that this structure that criticizes the practice of Russian lawsuits and prescribes compensation. But he did not know that she had some pressure and gives a chance to change something.

- There is no direct influence. This is a cumulative effect. Very slow, but this is the place to be. This is a mechanism that can really be used in work.

- If we talk about the logic of the system, do you understand it in Azat Miftakhov ?

- I think that Miftakhov’s case is a direct consequence of the fact that he is anarchist by beliefs. Now the security forces consider the anarchists almost the main enemies. I made such a conclusion, as looking at the general situation in criminal cases against anarchists - the same thing is the “network” , and communicating with the anarchists themselves and law enforcement officials themselves. For example, when I sat with the Azat in the police department until two in the morning, they talked a lot with him and the security forces. About their view of life and all that is happening in Russia in the world.

- Why is Azat? He was first detained on suspicion of making explosives. He was never charged with this article, apparently, they did not find something to catch on. Then they raised a suspended case of a broken window in the office of United Russia. Initially, it was a matter of vandalism, but, apparently, the article was weighted under Azat - now it is hooliganism in a group of people. And only after that Azat is arrested - and he was arrested alone in this case. In general, somehow a lot of efforts are invested precisely that the Azat is firstly in jail, and secondly, he was convicted. Moreover, he is an absolutely non-public person and, as far as I know, was not the organizer of any initiatives, unlike the same Gaskarov, Solopov, and stoops.

“He is an anarchist and this is already enough, besides, he is a graduate student at Moscow State University.” It doesn’t matter who it will be, they sculpt the image of the enemy from the anarchists. Even if there is no Azat there, the organizer was not there, which Gaskarov was considered. Now in the movement there are no people who could unite someone around themselves.

- Why then did you sit with Miftakhov until two in the morning? Is this part of the lawyer work?

-No, I was just humanly sorry for him. The police did not expel me to expel me, but made it clear that I could leave. But I understood that until I was, they would purely psychologically press on him. I know how they behave in the absence of a lawyer. Even in my presence, the opera could not resist the edification and questions for Azat: “Why do you need all this, but who are you, who needs you.”

-And why the operas are all this?

“Well, they are asserted in this way.” Their own ambitions are so satisfied.

- Feeling of power? A sense of power?

- Yes. Because this is the strongest feeling - a sense of power. The presence of weapons in the hands, a sense of power to varying degrees.

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- For 17 years of work, a lawyer did you manage to understand the logic of the system itself? When they grab activists-is this some kind of order is going on from above? Press the conditional national bonds, or crush conditioned anti -fascists. Or is the orthodists in the field solve it? Not specific opera, but, for example, the Moscow Center "E", or the Penza FSB.

- I came to the conclusion that this is a system installation. Speaking in pictures, for me a system is some kind of large animal, a machine that has large legs-like wheels. If you hit these wheels, then she will roll so much and then trample you, and trample, and trample, and trample. That is, she chews like a cow - and rowing with these wheels. And whoever gets into her, into these millstones, grinds them.

That is, this is such an installation. And she is some dumb. And there remains stupid, without any emotions. Absolutely soulless mechanism that moves. Therefore, I say that these guys, who, based on their ideological beliefs, are trying to prove something, arouse respect. Because they really sacrifice their lives.

- How do FSB investigators differ from others?

- The first thing, when I worked tightly with Feesbash investigators, is Kolchenko’s business . Then I clearly developed [understanding] what Feesbash investigators are, how they differ significantly [from others] what they are. They sincerely believe in the correctness of what they are doing, zombified. This is not that investigators of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or SK (Investigative Committee- OTD-Info ), who can somehow listen to your arguments.

This is the Crimean business of Kolchenko and Sentsov - the difficult for me is purely emotionally. It was then that from communication with the investigator, I realized that he really believes in what he was saying and what he does. And now in the case of Ryzhov - I see the same thing.

- Didn't they ask the FSB employees about torture? Why are they doing this? Why are torture needed?

- I did not ask about torture. But in general, I understood that they think this is in the order of things. We, the defenders in the case of Sentsov and Kolchenko, were in shock when we learned that the investigator who was conducting the case was present during torture. It was as part of the investigation.

When Kolchenko and Sentsov were sitting in a pre-trial detention center in Rostov-on-Don, there were guys from the Caucasian regions with them-to the 205th (an article on terrorist activities and terrorist attacks- ATS-Info ). Sasha spoke and Sentsov said that these guys had all the limbs black. From torture electric shock. Someone without nails, they have black hands, burns on their whole body, traces of beatings. That is, it is part of the system - torture. In the NKVD in 37 there were such executioners - they remained, and this is part of the system that is now. She has not gone anywhere and she continues to live, with external changes in some attributes.

- Have you received threats during political work?

- Yes. The opera during the criminal cases said: “Who did you imagine yourself? Your perseverance, attempts to prove something. We know everything about you. Today you are here, tomorrow you can be there - behind bars. Or something can happen to you, you know the fate of [the murdered lawyer Stanislav] Markelov . " Or they said: “Do not be afraid that if you are not killed, but you will become a disabled person? Have you heard about such and such a lawyer? ” Well, that is, not directly, but.

Facebook is written on a personal anonymous threats. Sometimes the opera is trying to dissuade customers from protecting them. Suppose, in the case of "New Greatness", the opera and investigator told Kostylenkov that he did not need such a lawyer [like me] and offered to refuse.

— Как вы справляетесь со всем этим? Испытываете же, наверное, чувство несправедливости, когда выносят очередной приговор.

— Испытываю, я живой человек. Внешне вроде бы себя научилась держать в руках. А внутри — все равно какое-то бывает ощущение абсолютной безысходности. Думаешь: «Блин, когда же все будет по-человечески как-то». Потом вроде восстаешь как феникс из пепла.

И вот в такие моменты единственное спасение: стараться сглаживать все каким-то своим человеческим отношением к этим людям, которым приходится нести на себе такой крест. Потому что я не вижу другого способа, чтобы смягчить ситуацию, в которой человек оказался. Может быть, я ему не смогу где-то помочь юридически, даже не в силу собственных знаний и возможностей, а в силу сложившейся ситуации. Ну вот как еще поможешь человеку? Если несправедлив суд, несправедливо следствие, весь мир против тебя.

— А если говорить именно о вас, а не о ваших подзащитных.

- I'm studying. Trying. Ищу способы, чтобы себя сберечь и сохранить. В какой то степени мои клиенты для меня тоже учителя. И я дорожу человеческими какими-то моментами, дорожу тем, что через них знакомлюсь с новыми людьми. С их близкими, знакомыми, родственниками.

Наверное, человеческое общение — это самое ценное, что у нас есть в жизни. Через общение мы познаем мир и получаем от жизни все то, что она может нам дать. Мы унесем с собой только те чувства и ощущения, которые мы пережили в этой жизни. Это могут быть люди, это могут быть животные. Это может быть наше восприятие природы, окружающего мира. Эстетическое какое-то удовольствие. От увиденного, от сделанного, от услышанного. Для этого мы пришли, и с этим мы уйдем.